Dragon Age 2 apparently gets a 94/100. I disagree.

I'm finding that I like DA2 better than DA, in large parts because of the changes to the combat system. In DA it felt to me like they were trying to recreate the feeling of old RPG's like Baldur's Gate and Ice Wind dale, but for me it never really worked. The whole game felt mage-centric. Fights against enemies that did not include either mages or dragons were rarely any challenge. On the flip side, in a fight against a single spell caster you could die almost instantly if they got off a lucky fireball. Warriors felt like dead weight while rogues were mainly there to pick locks.

In DA2 Warriors and Rogues feel a lot more valid components on the battlefield instead of just cannon fodder for the mages. To me it's really the same argument we saw when ME2 was released. Some elements of DA:O's combat fell short and so now they are trying a different approach to improve the game. And to be honest I don't really see the argument that things have been simplified. The speed has been increase but I'm not sure that there are less skills, options or elements to consider in the combat system.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

I don't know if I would instantly call this a product of consolization. Every version, the PC version and the console version, got completely dumbed down since DAO.

This is a product of way to short of a development time and trying to expand it's market by offering a more standard gameplay scheme.

In the grand scheme of things, the game is probably not bad, but considring it's the direct sequel of one of the best RPGs in recent memory, it's a severe letdown.

topsemag55

I've got around 24 hours in Wasdie, and I imported my saved game from the end of Witch Hunt.

So far there's been dialog references to DA:O events and expected returning characters, but the game can stand on its own storyline.

I'm enjoying the game so far, and I'm hoping others will as well.

I'm particularly impressed by mage behavior during melee, much improved over the original. My mage seems less weak in DA 2 over Origins.

DA2 doesn't deserve 94/100, PC Gamer fails there.

Oh, wow, people really hating on DA2. I for one am enjoying it, ten hours in. I'm digging the characters, quests are fun, combat is not bad at all...overall a pretty good experience up to now.

DA2 is lighter than DAO, cant doubt that, but the basic elements remain unchanged. Combat is the same as DAO, just with faster animations and better skill use. All the dialogue, quests, character development, etc is all there as it was. The hate the game gets is undeserving. Sure, DAO had a better story and more memorable characters, but still, DA2 is a fine product that got smaller dev time.

Reminds me of the hate thrown at Fallout 3 when that released. Sure it was buggy and a little outrageous for a Fallout story and setting, but the "hardcore No Mutants Allowed" nerd raged so hard you'd think they were screaming for another 8bit sidescrolling sequel.

[QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="biggest_loser"] How have you found the combat? Is there more of it than in Origins? sSubZerOo

Here is the difference though.. Warrior has a ton of crowd control, defense and an actually effective area effect.. Rogue do not (at least the daul wielder), they focus on single damage.. If anything this game might tougher than the first one due to the area effects every one has on the highest diffculty, and they throw a crap ton of guys at you sometimes.. Where I can't even figure out how I would be able to effectively combat such fights at this time in nightmare difficulty.. Add in mods and I will say its be great. The only thing I am worried about is just replaybility.

Even if it is fun they still continue to take away from classic pc elements we love to dumb these games down for consoles and this is pissing me off.

Feeling ive got to use taunt more often in dao2..There targeting my rogue a ton..So ill bring my tank over to help him and use taunt..Its tactics and its been fun..Im not sure what the other user is playing but its been challenging on higher lvls..Sure mages are always over powered as they lvl..Its been there thing..How ever they did well buy making the tank an rouge count for some thing..

Fought a dragon last night you can actually see the dragon using, his skills claw,claw,bite, knock back, and dragon flame..Man took me awhile to take down that dragon and was fun..Only thing that got me was i got one item off the dragon..That was a bit sad for a tough dragon fight..Figured id get at least 3 to 4 hot items after that fight..

What about armor has any one come up with good items..Seams ive not come across any myself..Im not sure why hopefully as i lvl past 7 this will change..

Feeling ive got to use taunt more often in dao2..There targeting my rogue a ton..So ill bring my tank over to help him and use taunt..Its tactics and its been fun..Im not sure what the other user is playing but its been challenging on higher lvls..Sure mages are always over powered as they lvl..Its been there thing..How ever they did well buy making the tank an rouge count for some thing..

Fought a dragon last night you can actually see the dragon using, his skills claw,claw,bite, knock back, and dragon flame..Man took me awhile to take down that dragon and was fun..Only thing that got me was i got one item off the dragon..That was a bit sad for a tough dragon fight..Figured id get at least 3 to 4 hot items after that fight..

What about armor has any one come up with good items..Seams ive not come across any myself..Im not sure why hopefully as i lvl past 7 this will change..

Gladestone1

[QUOTE="jedinat"]

The hate this game is getting is ridiculous. Look at the user reviews for the PC version... a bunch of hysterically bitter metagame nerds venting and generally making a nuisance of themselves here and on gamefaqs...

Mr_Ditters

People have a lot of pent up anger at the latest trend from developers to simplify games for consoles. DA:O was a masterpiece on PC--sort of sacred territory for PC gamers (crysis is the same way). They are venting.

I'll admit I'm not too happy with this. If DA2 weren't a sequel I would probably love it, but after playing the first one all I see is what is missing.

Even if it is fun they still continue to take away from classic pc elements we love to dumb these games down for consoles and this is pissing me off.

vfibsux

I feel the term "dumbed down" is thrown around a lot these days.

There is nothing dumb or dumbed down about Dragon Age 2. The plot is there, complete with generally well-written and well-voiced script and dialogue. NPC interaction is as enjoyable as ever. Character progression exists, both in stats and personal choice. Combat is still exciting, perhaps more so, due to being visually stimulating and interactive.

Dragon Age 2 is streamlined and simplified in my opinion, not dumbed down. I personally welcome this; I work a full-time job, I went to school, went to college...I dont want to spend minutes on end doing math equations and virtual dice rolls and worrying too much about crap like that. I want to jump into the fray, fight, interact, and generally have a fun time.

I completely understand why people object to this. I play DnD on paper with friends,I am a gaming veteran, and while i was late to the RPG party, I have experience with Neverwinter Nights, Icewind Dale, and more. Those were all excellent games but, hell, they were also a pain in the ass to play.

Dragon Age 2 has kept all the immersion of those game (NPC interaction, plot, choice, etc) while doing away with the stuff that was a hassle.

In short, the PC RPG has evolved. I am sorry some of us are stuck in the past, and I can empathize, but I feel like it is time to move on. You might be pissed off about Dragon Age 2 doing away with the complexity of the old school DnD RPGs, but deep down I think you folks might be more pissed off if the DnD RPG movement remained stagnant.

This is why I feel Bioware is one of the few developers with real balls. They started with the old formula, were pretty damn successful even, and yet they didnt sit on their ass about it. They said "Yeah, we are good, but what can we do better" and they walked that treacherous path of evolution. People got burned along the way, and continue to get burned, but its worthwhile in my opinion.

In short, Bioware is evolution in action. Not consolification, dumbing down, selling out, etc. The people that object to it are no better than a caveman looking on at his neighbor who just found out about the bow and arrow and say "Pffffft, my rock is better. It has class, requires more skill. That bow and arrow is just stupid"

[QUOTE="vfibsux"]

Even if it is fun they still continue to take away from classic pc elements we love to dumb these games down for consoles and this is pissing me off.

mrbojangles25

I feel the term "dumbed down" is thrown around a lot these days.

There is nothing dumb or dumbed down about Dragon Age 2. The plot is there, complete with generally well-written and well-voiced script and dialogue. NPC interaction is as enjoyable as ever. Character progression exists, both in stats and personal choice. Combat is still exciting, perhaps more so, due to being visually stimulating and interactive.

Dragon Age 2 is streamlined and simplified in my opinion, not dumbed down. I personally welcome this; I work a full-time job, I went to school, went to college...I dont want to spend minutes on end doing math equations and virtual dice rolls and worrying too much about crap like that. I want to jump into the fray, fight, interact, and generally have a fun time.

I completely understand why people object to this. I play DnD on paper with friends,I am a gaming veteran, and while i was late to the RPG party, I have experience with Neverwinter Nights, Icewind Dale, and more. Those were all excellent games but, hell, they were also a pain in the ass to play.

Dragon Age 2 has kept all the immersion of those game (NPC interaction, plot, choice, etc) while doing away with the stuff that was a hassle.

In short, the PC RPG has evolved. I am sorry some of us are stuck in the past, and I can empathize, but I feel like it is time to move on. You might be pissed off about Dragon Age 2 doing away with the complexity of the old school DnD RPGs, but deep down I think you folks might be more pissed off if the DnD RPG movement remained stagnant.

This is why I feel Bioware is one of the few developers with real balls. They started with the old formula, were pretty damn successful even, and yet they didnt sit on their ass about it. They said "Yeah, we are good, but what can we do better" and they walked that treacherous path of evolution. People got burned along the way, and continue to get burned, but its worthwhile in my opinion.

In short, Bioware is evolution in action. Not consolification, dumbing down, selling out, etc. The people that object to it are no better than a caveman looking on at his neighbor who just found out about the bow and arrow and say "Pffffft, my rock is better. It has class, requires more skill. That bow and arrow is just stupid"

Well said. I've been trying to say what you just did for some time. I agree completely.

They may have actually liked the game, or paid for the score, or even both options. Either way, it's their opinion and I shall respect it. I myself didn't like the demo so I will not pick it up. PolskaKing

like you aid, everyone entitled to their own opinion.

with that said, the demo gives a horrible false first impression of the game. I am suprised Bioware even let it out the door (the demo), but I guess they had no choice as its the first 15 minutes of the game.

It quickly spikes up high in quality and remaisn there

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="vfibsux"]

Well said. I've been trying to say what you just did for some time. I agree completely.

Mazoch

[QUOTE="vfibsux"]

Even if it is fun they still continue to take away from classic pc elements we love to dumb these games down for consoles and this is pissing me off.

mrbojangles25

I feel the term "dumbed down" is thrown around a lot these days.

There is nothing dumb or dumbed down about Dragon Age 2. The plot is there, complete with generally well-written and well-voiced script and dialogue. NPC interaction is as enjoyable as ever. Character progression exists, both in stats and personal choice. Combat is still exciting, perhaps more so, due to being visually stimulating and interactive.

Dragon Age 2 is streamlined and simplified in my opinion, not dumbed down. I personally welcome this; I work a full-time job, I went to school, went to college...I dont want to spend minutes on end doing math equations and virtual dice rolls and worrying too much about crap like that. I want to jump into the fray, fight, interact, and generally have a fun time.

I completely understand why people object to this. I play DnD on paper with friends,I am a gaming veteran, and while i was late to the RPG party, I have experience with Neverwinter Nights, Icewind Dale, and more. Those were all excellent games but, hell, they were also a pain in the ass to play.

Dragon Age 2 has kept all the immersion of those game (NPC interaction, plot, choice, etc) while doing away with the stuff that was a hassle.

In short, the PC RPG has evolved. I am sorry some of us are stuck in the past, and I can empathize, but I feel like it is time to move on. You might be pissed off about Dragon Age 2 doing away with the complexity of the old school DnD RPGs, but deep down I think you folks might be more pissed off if the DnD RPG movement remained stagnant.

This is why I feel Bioware is one of the few developers with real balls. They started with the old formula, were pretty damn successful even, and yet they didnt sit on their ass about it. They said "Yeah, we are good, but what can we do better" and they walked that treacherous path of evolution. People got burned along the way, and continue to get burned, but its worthwhile in my opinion.

In short, Bioware is evolution in action. Not consolification, dumbing down, selling out, etc. The people that object to it are no better than a caveman looking on at his neighbor who just found out about the bow and arrow and say "Pffffft, my rock is better. It has class, requires more skill. That bow and arrow is just stupid"

[QUOTE="vfibsux"]

Even if it is fun they still continue to take away from classic pc elements we love to dumb these games down for consoles and this is pissing me off.

mrbojangles25

I feel the term "dumbed down" is thrown around a lot these days.

There is nothing dumb or dumbed down about Dragon Age 2. The plot is there, complete with generally well-written and well-voiced script and dialogue. NPC interaction is as enjoyable as ever. Character progression exists, both in stats and personal choice. Combat is still exciting, perhaps more so, due to being visually stimulating and interactive.

Dragon Age 2 is streamlined and simplified in my opinion, not dumbed down. I personally welcome this; I work a full-time job, I went to school, went to college...I dont want to spend minutes on end doing math equations and virtual dice rolls and worrying too much about crap like that. I want to jump into the fray, fight, interact, and generally have a fun time.

I completely understand why people object to this. I play DnD on paper with friends,I am a gaming veteran, and while i was late to the RPG party, I have experience with Neverwinter Nights, Icewind Dale, and more. Those were all excellent games but, hell, they were also a pain in the ass to play.

Dragon Age 2 has kept all the immersion of those game (NPC interaction, plot, choice, etc) while doing away with the stuff that was a hassle.

In short, the PC RPG has evolved. I am sorry some of us are stuck in the past, and I can empathize, but I feel like it is time to move on. You might be pissed off about Dragon Age 2 doing away with the complexity of the old school DnD RPGs, but deep down I think you folks might be more pissed off if the DnD RPG movement remained stagnant.

This is why I feel Bioware is one of the few developers with real balls. They started with the old formula, were pretty damn successful even, and yet they didnt sit on their ass about it. They said "Yeah, we are good, but what can we do better" and they walked that treacherous path of evolution. People got burned along the way, and continue to get burned, but its worthwhile in my opinion.

In short, Bioware is evolution in action. Not consolification, dumbing down, selling out, etc. The people that object to it are no better than a caveman looking on at his neighbor who just found out about the bow and arrow and say "Pffffft, my rock is better. It has class, requires more skill. That bow and arrow is just stupid"

Great post, agreed 100%k, infact I was just about to write up a big post with much of hte same things that you said.

lol. yeah I think PCgamer needs the money they went and gave a **** console port a high score.

AiurProtoss

I love the game and disagree with your opinion. So there.

The same PC Gamer that gave DA:O 94% and called it RPG of The Decade, yet scored The Witcher 67%?

Lol ok. I'll be leaving now.

The same PC Gamer that gave DA:O 94% and called it RPG of The Decade, yet scored The Witcher 67%?

Lol ok. I'll be leaving now.

DreamCryotank

The same PC Gamer that gave DA:O 94% and called it RPG of The Decade, yet scored The Witcher 67%?

Lol ok. I'll be leaving now.

DreamCryotank

PC Gamer US gave The Witcher 91%, as opposed to PC Gamer UK giving it 67%.

Haven't played it. Thought the original was above average but not breathtaking, especially after playing so much NWN2 (Been there, done that, anyone?)

I will say, however, that game review sites, this one included, often give bloated scores to major releases of major companies, Bioware included.

I moderately enjoyed Fallout 3, but I nearly pissed my pants laughing when I saw a 100/100 from some major site. Good game, no doubt, but did they get 100% of every last detail right in that game? No, not even close.

Do these companies receive these scores via money? Maybe. Plausibly. Who knows? There is a trend though. I doubt a game of equal quality from a non-major publisher would get equal treatment when put up next to a comparable game from a major company. Of course, many would come back and say "well then it wasn't as good." Maybe.

But I've played a lot of really great games that got rather unfairly poor reviews from Gamespot and other sources. I stayed away from Mount and Blade for a very long time because of Gamespot's review of it, and that was a major mistake.

There's lots of other examples out there, I have noticed a trend in the last few years. Coincidence? Possible. Anything is possible.

You should have also added the the review was in the magazine and it came out 1-2 weeks before the release. Anyways, after 15 hours in with the game, I agree that it deserves a 94/100. It doesn't play like Dragon Age: Origins at all.Pvt_r3d

[QUOTE="Pvt_r3d"]You should have also added the the review was in the magazine and it came out 1-2 weeks before the release. Anyways, after 15 hours in with the game, I agree that it deserves a 94/100. It doesn't play like Dragon Age: Origins at all.Elann2008

[QUOTE="Elann2008"][QUOTE="Pvt_r3d"]You should have also added the the review was in the magazine and it came out 1-2 weeks before the release. Anyways, after 15 hours in with the game, I agree that it deserves a 94/100. It doesn't play like Dragon Age: Origins at all.Pvt_r3d

I can't stop playing Dragon Age 2. Finally stopped a few minutes ago. The game has me hooked but I have yet to fight a dragon myself. I've been doing a clean sweep of all the side quests, including companion quest. All of my main plot missions are untouched. :P I don't want to leave one quest behind. Elann2008

Good approach.

I'm not rushing it either.

this game seems to be all over the place if the gamespot review is to be believed.

the story - the review says it has no larger plot, only a series of missions put together but he goes on to say that the each mission plays out very well thanks to the writing, score and so on.

combat - oversimplified combat made for the consoles. as far as i am concerned DA:O's combat was the game's USP, a tactical RPG which really differentiated it from the rest ( the witcher, elder scrolls etc) and there was no reason to change it.

the team - again the review says they are well written and witty etc etc but they are not as engaging the first one. inventory is restricted to only hawke.

and ign says there is only kirkwall, or atleast the game is too focused on kirkwall and it gets tiring with progress to be in the same surroundings.

this is not evolution( as some people here are suggesting), we have had enough of action games, DA:O gave you a cerebral pleasure that other 'action games' did not and bioware going the same route as the other 'fast paced action adventure blah blah blah' no longer sets them apart. i do not care how well it stands on its own feet, it is a sequel to DA:O and not PoP or witcher or creed or anyother game and by defintition it needed to improve on it not erase its identity.

at the least they could have developed certain tools for the pc gamers in the new engine, they desereved it.

this is not Evolution . This is REGRESSION.

[QUOTE="Elann2008"]I can't stop playing Dragon Age 2. Finally stopped a few minutes ago. The game has me hooked but I have yet to fight a dragon myself. I've been doing a clean sweep of all the side quests, including companion quest. All of my main plot missions are untouched. :P I don't want to leave one quest behind. urbangamez

Good approach.

I'm not rushing it either.

Beat it on hard in 21 hours doing pretty much every quest (and by that I mean I think I forgot to clear 1-2 ending companion missions at the very last stage). That was actually one of my major gripes with the game. I spent around 30 hours on my first playthrough of Origins, yet I only needed about 2/3rds the time in DA2.

Beat it on hard in 21 hours doing pretty much every quest (and by that I mean I think I forgot to clear 1-2 ending companion missions at the very last stage). That was actually one of my major gripes with the game. I spent around 30 hours on my first playthrough of Origins, yet I only needed about 2/3rds the time in DA2.

Elvondar

Some people are claiming 25+ hours. Did you do ALL the quests? Are you sure? :P

*Possible Spoiler*

Edit: I'm a lvl 8 rogue, Hard mode, and I haven't even done the Deep Roads main plot yet. 12 hours clocked in (scout's honor). No spoilers response please. :P I'm still playing DA2. Thanks!

Some people are claiming 25+ hours. Did you do ALL the quests? Are you sure? :P

*Possible Spoiler*

Edit: I'm a lvl 8 rogue, and I haven't even done the Deep Roads main plot yet. 12 hours clocked in (scout's honor). No spoilers response please. :P I'm still playing DA2. Thanks!

Elann2008

Ya, I'm not bs'ing or trying to epeen. I actually consider myself to have a pretty bad case of OCD about completing all the quests on my first playthrough and was pretty pissed when I forgot to go back and finish the ending of Aveline's quest in the last chapter. Adding that and another gathering quest I forgot to do, I think maybe I would of maxed out at 22 hours (23 TOPS). Hell, that dragon in boneyards took me almost an hour and could have gotten me down to 20 hours played if I would have skipped it instead :lol:

Edit: Also (not to inflate my ego again), I wiped a grand total of 0 times in my first playthrough. That probably had something to do with it.

One thing the reviews seem to be leaving out is the lame nature of the quests and environment. All you do is go back and forth through small areas of the same city for hours on end using a map to do very boring little quests.

One thing the reviews seem to be leaving out is the lame nature of the quests and environment. All you do is go back and forth through small areas of the same city for hours on end using a map to do very boring little quests.

-Unreal-

QFT. I can't remember how many quests I did, especially ones outside the city, where I was like, "Hey didn't I just do a quest right here... Like in the same zone... IN THE SAME EXACT SPOT!?!?"

I mean it wasn't too bad, but... It just makes BioWare look lazy...

[QUOTE="Elann2008"]

Some people are claiming 25+ hours. Did you do ALL the quests? Are you sure? :P

*Possible Spoiler*

Edit: I'm a lvl 8 rogue, and I haven't even done the Deep Roads main plot yet. 12 hours clocked in (scout's honor). No spoilers response please. :P I'm still playing DA2. Thanks!

Elvondar

Ya, I'm not bs'ing or trying to epeen. I actually consider myself to have a pretty bad case of OCD about completing all the quests on my first playthrough and was pretty pissed when I forgot to go back and finish the ending of Aveline's quest in the last chapter. Adding that and another gathering quest I forgot to do, I think maybe I would of maxed out at 22 hours (23 TOPS). Hell, that dragon in boneyards took me almost an hour and could have gotten me down to 20 hours played if I would have skipped it instead :lol:

Edit: Also (not to inflate my ego again), I wiped a grand total of 0 times in my first playthrough. That probably had something to do with it.