Dragon Age : origins combat is crap

after some time, i decided to play this game again, and quite enjoying it, except for combat. its so ridiculously simplified and boring! click on this character, use couple of skills, some AOE spells, and let ranger shoot behind ranks of...4? really? only 4 chars? seems a bit small number. anyway the combat pretty bad imo. how did you guys found it?

[oh and please no lectures about how this is bioware rpg, and how it requires strategy. games like risen need a lot more combat planning than this]

You just discovered the combat system of MMORPGs. Terrible indeed.

I enjoyed the combat system, playing as Mage is the most fun though, I didnt have as much time with a warrior.

On a hard difficulty the combat is actually pretty strategic. I like playing it with pauses sometimes kinda like KOTOR/KOTOR2 combat.

after some time, i decided to play this game again, and quite enjoying it, except for combat. its so ridiculously simplified and boring! click on this character, use couple of skills, some AOE spells, and let ranger shoot behind ranks of...4? really? only 4 chars? seems a bit small number. anyway the combat pretty bad imo. how did you guys found it?

[oh and please no lectures about how this is bioware rpg, and how it requires strategy. games like risen need a lot more combat planning than this]

Nightmare799

You just discovered the combat system of MMORPGs. Terrible indeed.

Mr_BillGates

If you want a challenge use one mage..It was a lot harder than using two like most people did..Specially on some of the bigger boss battles..

You just discovered the combat system of MMORPGs. Terrible indeed.

Mr_BillGates

I love it. It reminds me of Baldur's Gate...good memories.

It is terribly simplified compared to any of the old DnD games, that's for sure.

With only four party members and three-ish classes, there isn't all that much variety in the strategies and tactics available to you. You'll stick to the tank/dps/healer holy trinity and throw in an additional dps or crowd control where needed - very MMOlike in that regard.

Perhaps the combat would have been better had there been any interesting enemies in the game (like BG2's trolls, or something), but besides those early ogre fights and one or two bosses, most fights can be won using the same strategy room after room.

It's dull, and if they were trying to recapture the glory days of the infinity engine RPGs, they failed.

Its like a terrible version of Baldurs Gate/Icewind Dale/Planescape/Etc. Much less strategic, less party members, less choice in character creation and abilities. a lot less spells, and a lack of interesting enemies. Due to the engine it's more difficult to get people to do what you want, not that it matters because it is so much easier. Then they added some MMO like elements to battle that have no place in the game.

I love it. It reminds me of Baldur's Gate...good memories.

That's the problem for most of us. They had eight years to imrpove the system used in games like Baldurs Gate and it isn't even as good.

If there's one thing DA2 did good, it was combat (minus the silly ways enemies spawned from thin air). DAO had very clunky and poor combat, especially for mages. Mages in DA2 were really fun. I did enjoy rogue in DAO though, those gory kill animations, especially on ogres, were terrific.

I love it. It reminds me of Baldur's Gate...good memories.

SOedipus

Its like a terrible version of Baldurs Gate/Icewind Dale/Planescape/Etc. Much less strategic, less party members, less choice in character creation and abilities. a lot less spells, and a lack of interesting enemies. Due to the engine it's more difficult to get people to do what you want, not that it matters because it is so much easier. Then they added some MMO like elements to battle that have no place in the game.

I love it. It reminds me of Baldur's Gate...good memories.Legolas_Katarn

That's the problem for most of us. They had eight years to imrpove the system used in games like Baldurs Gate and it isn't even as good.

have to put the game on the hardest difficulty.

[QUOTE="Mr_BillGates"]

You just discovered the combat system of MMORPGs. Terrible indeed.

vfibsux

I thought the combat was good. Nothing outstanding. The game as a whole is great though. It had good graphics, good interface, great music, pretty good story and characters and the gameplay was fun. The only real downside to the combat I can think of is that there's maybe a lack of spells and classes. Hopefully Dragon Age 3 is somewhere in between Origins and the older RPGs like Neverwinter Nights.

BTW Risen is crap compared to Dragon Age. Risen 1 and 2. They're 5-6/10 games.

[QUOTE="vfibsux"][QUOTE="Mr_BillGates"]

You just discovered the combat system of MMORPGs. Terrible indeed.

bonafidetk

It is terribly simplified compared to any of the old DnD games, that's for sure.

With only four party members and three-ish classes, there isn't all that much variety in the strategies and tactics available to you. You'll stick to the tank/dps/healer holy trinity and throw in an additional dps or crowd control where needed - very MMOlike in that regard.

Perhaps the combat would have been better had there been any interesting enemies in the game (like BG2's trolls, or something), but besides those early ogre fights and one or two bosses, most fights can be won using the same strategy room after room.

It's dull, and if they were trying to recapture the glory days of the infinity engine RPGs, they failed.

Planeforger

This.

My issues with DAO were the following. MMO combat, only 4 party members, extremely little variety, cooldowns, no interesting enemies to fight, boring spells and abilities, combat becomes a micromanagement hell if you disable the AI.

I thought the combat was good. Nothing outstanding. The game as a whole is great though. It had good graphics, good interface, great music, pretty good story and characters and the gameplay was fun. The only real downside to the combat I can think of is that there's maybe a lack of spells and classes. Hopefully Dragon Age 3 is somewhere in between Origins and the older RPGs like Neverwinter Nights.

BTW Risen is crap compared to Dragon Age. Risen 1 and 2. They're 5-6/10 games.

-Unreal-

I thought the combat was good. Nothing outstanding. The game as a whole is great though. It had good graphics, good interface, great music, pretty good story and characters and the gameplay was fun. The only real downside to the combat I can think of is that there's maybe a lack of spells and classes. Hopefully Dragon Age 3 is somewhere in between Origins and the older RPGs like Neverwinter Nights.

BTW Risen is crap compared to Dragon Age. Risen 1 and 2. They're 5-6/10 games.

-Unreal-

I thought the combat was good. Nothing outstanding. The game as a whole is great though. It had good graphics, good interface, great music, pretty good story and characters and the gameplay was fun. The only real downside to the combat I can think of is that there's maybe a lack of spells and classes. Hopefully Dragon Age 3 is somewhere in between Origins and the older RPGs like Neverwinter Nights.

BTW Risen is crap compared to Dragon Age. Risen 1 and 2. They're 5-6/10 games.

-Unreal-

Risen is a open-world RPG with that Pyrahna Bytes difficulty sprinkled on, wile Dragon Age is a party story-driven RPG, they are nothing alike. Risen is a excellent game for what it offers to its sub-genre.

What MMOs are you guys playing where you pause and strategize? While the combat wasn't amazing, I hardly think it was as bad as you guys are making it sound. Skyrim combat is EXTREMELY simple, but nobody says anything about that. If you want a good RPG with lots of character depth and strategic combat then dragon age is up your alley. If you are looking for an action game with insane combos and crazy moves go play an action game. The focus of RPGs has never been on combat, it's on character development and that's one thing dragon age does really well.

The whole game is crappy actually...

[QUOTE="bonafidetk"][QUOTE="vfibsux"] Dragon Age is an MMO now?vfibsux

It's been awhile but off the top of my head things that remind me of an MMO that were in Dragons Age

1: Tanking. Enemies focus on the "tank" character who wears the most armor and uses abilities like taunt to draw aggro. A quote from taunt on the DA wiki "Immediately generates 300 threat on any target hit by the talent. Frightening Appearance grants a bonus of 100 to amount of threat generated." That is exactly how abilities in MMOs work. This concept is completely idiotic in a SP strategic game and the way that games like Baldurs Gate or even games like Tactics Ogre Let Us Cling together make a lot more sense where enemies tend to focus on lightly armored easy to kill targets first (like mages).

2: The interface is exactly like an MMO. The way abilities are assigned, activated, have a cooldown. Unlike the older games like Baldurs Gate the character portraits are no longer on the right side of the screen and have been moved to the left and look exactly like they would if you were in a party in an MMO game (not that it's a bad thing as it makes sense but it's just another change that makes it look more like an MMO).

3: The best option for combat is usually to do a chain of a certain set of movies one after the other

4: Instead of moves taking time to use or having situations where you would or wouldn't want to use them everything operates on a cooldown. Fighting moves require (I don't know what the game called it so I'll just say) SP for combat actions which is how many MMOs handle special abilities.

5: Movement of characters was handled like an MMO where if I placed a character in front of a door enemies could just walk past him to attack other characters when in any of the old games like Baldurs Gate/Icewind Dale/Planescape my character would have blocked the enemies by being in their way.

I still don't see how that is "MMO combat". Just because it utilizes strategy with tanks, heals, and dps does make it MMO combat. The other reasons you state are kinda baffling as well. Maybe it is just the way you play it?

Btw, no one said you have to spec a tank, healer, or dps. You can spec your toons anyway you like. If you are playing it like God controlling an entire MMO group well.....ur fault?

I still don't see how that is "MMO combat". Just because it utilizes strategy with tanks, heals, and dps does make it MMO combat. The other reasons you state are kinda baffling as well. Maybe it is just the way you play it?

Btw, no one said you have to spec a tank, healer, or dps. You can spec your toons anyway you like. If you are playing it like God controlling an entire MMO group well.....ur fault?

vfibsux

Thing is... the combat is designed like that of an mmo. Especially mechanically.

Most RPGs dont involve threat mechanics and taunting tanks, ethereal party members, overly strict specializations and skills that were clearly designed to be used in a chain and other elemnets that feel like they were ripped straight out of your average mmo.

Sure you can go with a solo thief playthrough, to make it feel less like an mmo, but that doesnt change the fact that the way most will play the game is how an mmo would play like if you controlled the entire party.

[QUOTE="Planeforger"]

It is terribly simplified compared to any of the old DnD games, that's for sure.

With only four party members and three-ish classes, there isn't all that much variety in the strategies and tactics available to you. You'll stick to the tank/dps/healer holy trinity and throw in an additional dps or crowd control where needed - very MMOlike in that regard.

Perhaps the combat would have been better had there been any interesting enemies in the game (like BG2's trolls, or something), but besides those early ogre fights and one or two bosses, most fights can be won using the same strategy room after room.

It's dull, and if they were trying to recapture the glory days of the infinity engine RPGs, they failed.

Maroxad

This.

My issues with DAO were the following. MMO combat, only 4 party members, extremely little variety, cooldowns, no interesting enemies to fight, boring spells and abilities, combat becomes a micromanagement hell if you disable the AI.

Hopefully some of these kickstarter games and others like Chaos Chronicles will get it right. I am ready for the TRUE return of the RPG.

Of course there are other ways to play it outside the original scope of the game (like soloing with a rogue) but the general consensus on how to play it is by using a holy trinity very similiar to an MMORPG dungeon party.bonafidetk

I don't have to use Allister (star, ...Alis, I don't remember) as a tank but he was the character in my party with the most health and armor, had a shield, and had the taunt ability so its what made the most sense. But, none of that is relevant anyway since how I personally used a fighter doesn't matter, the fact that they generate threat to tank is just one of the examples of how they created the game in a way similar to an MMO. How I played or what I had my characters do doesn't change the way the game was made. The melee abilities were meant to chain together for maximum effect like they would in an MMO, threat and tanking are done in the same way as an MMO, and ethereal characters is the same as in an MMO. I could try my best to ignore that and play in a different way but it would make the game more difficult and I would be going against how it was made.

I can play Final Fantasy 1 with a party of white mages but that's not what it was made for.

Sorry but I still think you guys are high with this comparison to MMO combat. I have to think you don't play MMO's.

Sorry but I still think you guys are high with this comparison to MMO combat. I have to think you don't play MMO's.

vfibsux

The combat's a bit too dry for my liking, not so much the system, but how slow and flat the animations are, there's little feeling to it. But I put in around 100 hours into the game in 1 play through so it didn't stop me from really enjoying it. I don't see how it's worse than BG2 or Planescape though, BG had an irritating UI and Planescape wasn't half as challenging as DA.

The combat's a bit too dry for my liking, not so much the system, but how slow and flat the animations are, there's little feeling to it. But I put in around 100 hours into the game in 1 play through so it didn't stop me from really enjoying it. I don't see how it's worse than BG2 or Planescape though, BG had an irritating UI and Planescape wasn't half as challenging as DA.

cyborg100000

[QUOTE="cyborg100000"]

The combat's a bit too dry for my liking, not so much the system, but how slow and flat the animations are, there's little feeling to it. But I put in around 100 hours into the game in 1 play through so it didn't stop me from really enjoying it. I don't see how it's worse than BG2 or Planescape though, BG had an irritating UI and Planescape wasn't half as challenging as DA.

kieran88

Yeah it was too cliché and too ingrained in traditional fantasy with a predictable plot. It's an impressive, enjoyable game but not one that's very memorable or one you really want to go back to.

[QUOTE="kieran88"][QUOTE="cyborg100000"]

The combat's a bit too dry for my liking, not so much the system, but how slow and flat the animations are, there's little feeling to it. But I put in around 100 hours into the game in 1 play through so it didn't stop me from really enjoying it. I don't see how it's worse than BG2 or Planescape though, BG had an irritating UI and Planescape wasn't half as challenging as DA.

cyborg100000

Yeah it was too cliché and too ingrained in traditional fantasy with a predictable plot. It's an impressive, enjoyable game but not one that's very memorable or one you really want to go back to.

The combat's a bit too dry for my liking, not so much the system, but how slow and flat the animations are, there's little feeling to it. But I put in around 100 hours into the game in 1 play through so it didn't stop me from really enjoying it. I don't see how it's worse than BG2 or Planescape though, BG had an irritating UI and Planescape wasn't half as challenging as DA.

cyborg100000

click on this character, use couple of skills, some AOE spells, and let ranger shoot behind ranks of...4?

Nightmare799

did you play tetris only all of your life ?

I really liked it, much more than the broken combat model of The Witcher 2biggest_loser

Sorry but I still think you guys are high with this comparison to MMO combat. I have to think you don't play MMO's.

vfibsux

[QUOTE="vfibsux"]

Sorry but I still think you guys are high with this comparison to MMO combat. I have to think you don't play MMO's.

bonafidetk

First of all no not "everyone" is saying it is like an MMO.

Number two, I don't need you to find my opinion valid, nor do I feel the need to find your valid simply because you say so.

Beyond the fact there is a holy trinity and the use of taunting I see no similarities whatsoever to an MMO in which I am playing one character and real life people are playing the rest of the group and we are all working together to conduct one goal in real time. You cannot pause, you do not need to make any strategic decisions, you cannot save and reload when you fail. Just because I can pause and make the "tank" in my party taunt does not make it like an MMO in any way, shape, or form to me. I played through the entire campaign at least once and then some, then all of awakenings as well and not once until this thread did I ever associate "MMO" with this game. And I have played MMO's from UO all the way through EQ, Daoc, WoW, and presently playing Rift and GW2. So yes, I think if you think "MMO" when playing a single player game you can pause and make strategic decisions in.....ur high. That's MY opinion, take or leave it, makes no difference to me.

[QUOTE="bonafidetk"][QUOTE="vfibsux"]

Sorry but I still think you guys are high with this comparison to MMO combat. I have to think you don't play MMO's.

vfibsux

First of all no not "everyone" is saying it is like an MMO.

Number two, I don't need you to find my opinion valid, nor do I feel the need to find your valid simply because you say so.

Beyond the fact there is a holy trinity and the use of taunting I see no similarities whatsoever to an MMO in which I am playing one character and real life people are playing the rest of the group and we are all working together to conduct one goal in real time. You cannot pause, you do not need to make any strategic decisions, you cannot save and reload when you fail. Just because I can pause and make the "tank" in my party taunt does not make it like an MMO in any way, shape, or form to me. I played through the entire campaign at least once and then some, then all of awakenings as well and not once until this thread did I ever associate "MMO" with this game. And I have played MMO's from UO all the way through EQ, Daoc, WoW, and presently playing Rift and GW2. So yes, I think if you think "MMO" when playing a single player game you can pause and make strategic decisions in.....ur high. That's MY opinion, take or leave it, makes no difference to me.

There are some thick skulled people on the internet. No dude, I said just because the game has taunting and trinity those are not enough reasons to make think MMO when describing the combat. Those similarities are so irrelevent to the point it is pathetic. So claiming victory because I acknowledged those two little similarities is stupid. It is like saying a pepper and an orange are the the same because they both have seeds and come from something that grows from the ground.

See, you did not want me to validate my opinion, you wanted me to agree with you. The hell with you dude, I DISAGREE, get over it.

Yeah I don't care for it. It makes the game play like an MMO despite being a fully fledged out single player game.

[QUOTE="Nightmare799"]

click on this character, use couple of skills, some AOE spells, and let ranger shoot behind ranks of...4?

ciorlandenis

did you play tetris only all of your life ?

was that supposed to sound clever?

I liked DAO combat more than DA 2, but I would prefer combat to feel more Baldurs Gate'ish.