Dragon Age: Origins...empty promises?

check this out.

originally i was pretty hyped by what the dev promised as "the successor of Baldur's Gate". i don't know about you, but the more i get to see of Dragon Age, the less anticipation i have for this game. from what we know so far, there are very few cIasses to choose from, which means the gameplay would be quite shallow; the game also seems to be quite unchallenging, since the enemies show no sign of saving throw attempt ( or anything equivalent in DA:O ) at all. the result is what you can see in the video -- something that resembles dungeon siege kind of hack and slash rpg than the true hardcore crpgs we all adore.

at the moment, i'm fast becoming disillusioned with Bioware's seemingly empty promises to deliver a top-notched rpg. what about you?

Anyone expecting a spiritual successor to BG needs to stop thinking that.

Sadly, barring some indie developer making a game like that out of pure nostalgia, those days and games are over.

On that note, Dragon Age seems like it will be good, albeit generic. There will be some things dumbed down on behalf of consoles (i.e. DnD rules..."wtf is 1d4 flail?" cries the Halo player), but it will be a fun game, with excellent story, NPC interaction, and all those things we expect from Bioware.

Anyone expecting a spiritual successor to BG needs to stop thinking that.

Sadly, barring some indie developer making a game like that out of pure nostalgia, those days and games are over.

On that note, Dragon Age seems like it will be good, albeit generic. There will be some things dumbed down on behalf of consoles (i.e. DnD rules..."wtf is 1d4 flail?" cries the Halo player), but it will be a fun game, with excellent story, NPC interaction, and all those things we expect from Bioware.

mrbojangles25

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

Anyone expecting a spiritual successor to BG needs to stop thinking that.

Sadly, barring some indie developer making a game like that out of pure nostalgia, those days and games are over.

On that note, Dragon Age seems like it will be good, albeit generic. There will be some things dumbed down on behalf of consoles (i.e. DnD rules..."wtf is 1d4 flail?" cries the Halo player), but it will be a fun game, with excellent story, NPC interaction, and all those things we expect from Bioware.

Makari

I have faith in Dragon Age because I have faith in Bioware. They have yet to make a game that I didn't enjoy.Jade_Monkey

Anyone expecting a spiritual successor to BG needs to stop thinking that.

Sadly, barring some indie developer making a game like that out of pure nostalgia, those days and games are over.

On that note, Dragon Age seems like it will be good, albeit generic. There will be some things dumbed down on behalf of consoles (i.e. DnD rules..."wtf is 1d4 flail?" cries the Halo player), but it will be a fun game, with excellent story, NPC interaction, and all those things we expect from Bioware.

mrbojangles25

what i expect from Bioware is what they originally promised. they've got some bloody cheek to sport this as a successor to one of the greatest crpgs of all time, and i for one have no stomach for lies and shamelessness.

Not gonna quote anything cos it will take me to much time and probably will "eat" alot of space .

Did you saw what they promised for BG2 ? Guess not , alot didnt made it in the game back then and same goes for the exp : ToB and the result of that are quite alot of mods (some even made by ppl that work for Bioware , like Ascension ... if that rings any bells ) . Name me 1 game that it turned up like they (its dev team) said in its "early" stage of development .

Its spiritual successor (look it up on some video report they said it cant remember witch one) ... just like Fallout(1st one) is/was for Wasteland , if this was a successor it would be name Baldur's Gate 4 (ToB is 3 if someone is wondering) .

From what i know so far there will be 3 classes to chose from at the begining of the game (mage , rogue and fighter) and later on you can specialize eg. you start as a mage then you can specialize into a healer or warlock (think they said blood mage)or ... etc etc . This are not a few classes to chose from , same old , if you look at the DnD classes what do you see ? You will see 3 core clases : Mage , Rogue and Fighter the rest are a mix of 2 or all 3 . So dont cry if you cant play your favorite paladin right from the start of the game you will be able to do it a bit later ....

How do you know that the enemies didnt have any saving throws ? "They didnt show it " Duh ... right , did they show it in Planescape Torment ? in any of the Baldur's Gate games ? Icewind Dale games ? Knights of the Old Republic (games) ? etc . Well they didnt ... so even if this is a new rule set dont say anything like that yet , I want to see the combat log .

And who wants DnD anyway ? Its going downhill since 3.0 .

So what if the Pc ver. is delayed to match the same release date as the console ver. cant you wait a bit longer ? Guess you are waiting as long as I am for this game and im waiting for some years now , whats a few more months ... look on the bright side , they can tinker it some more in this time and in most cases that means a better game .

Yes the combat system (the melee one atleast) looks a bit to simple and animations are slow but its not written in stone , how do you know that the end product will still look like this ?

I dont have high hopes for this game just like i dont have for any other game better say but when it will come out I will try it just because I liked all the other games from Bioware (that i got my hands on). Why I dont have high hopes .. because you cant reinvent the wheel , all has been done before : the fantasy setting or better say the mature and dark fantasy setting , the story , the graphics , the spells , the choices that will have an impact on the story , the whorehouses . those war hounds and the list will go on like this ..

you've got some points there when you said what the dev promises often doesn't come true. so i guess i over-reacted on that one abit.

on the other hand, from what we know, Dragon Age: Origins doesn't seem to inherit anything from the crpg classics in the late 90s. in BG2, i definitely don't remember scoring EVERY hit like i do in Diablo 2. classes, and therefore gameplay, WILL be limited, it's the only logical explanation to why they implement the base class system. on top of that, the way you see only 3 base class in DnD games just screams a lack of understanding of the system. speaking of which, DnD ruleset is easily the deepest rpg system we have on pc -- it's only your opinion that it's going downhill, not fact. what is fact tho, is that you see just as much as i have of this game, so your optimistic conclusion doesn't hold more merits than mine. we shall see.

you've got some points there when you said what the dev promises often doesn't come true. so i guess i over-reacted on that one abit.

on the other hand, from what we know, Dragon Age: Origins doesn't seem to inherit anything from the crpg classics in the late 90s. in BG2, i definitely don't remember scoring EVERY hit like i do in Diablo 2. classes, and therefore gameplay, WILL be limited, it's the only logical explanation to why they implement the base class system. on top of that, the way you see only 3 base class in DnD games just screams a lack of understanding of the system. speaking of which, DnD ruleset is easily the deepest rpg system we have on pc -- it's only your opinion that it's going downhill, not fact. what is fact tho, is that you see just as much as i have of this game, so your optimistic conclusion doesn't hold more merits than mine. we shall see.

Jinroh_basic

How do you know it will be limited? You didn't play it and you certainly can't make anything out of the video they showed about how deep this system is since they haven't even shown anything past the first 15 min of the game. Its not DnD but that doesn't stop it from being deep and complex either. Stop trying to guess what a game will be before it's even out. As far as being disapointed, can you name me a single game that might have accomplish the expectations of gamers? Because i can't think of any.

of coz i don't actually know -- but that doesn't mean i can't make logical deduction. the end result of system that bases itself on 3 classes can only be that sophisticated, no matter how you cut it. that's why even mmos have more than that. yes, it's not out yet, but at the moment it's really not looking all that great. that's the point of this thread, isn't it?

of coz i don't actually know -- but that doesn't mean i can't make logical deduction. the end result of system that bases itself on 3 classes can only be that sophisticated, no matter how you cut it. that's why even mmos have more than that. yes, it's not out yet, but at the moment it's really not looking all that great. that's the point of this thread, isn't it?

Jinroh_basic

As far as i know, you can't insert yourself into the head of the game designers who created the system so its pretty hard to make logical deductions. I can have 10 starting classes but that doesn't mean they will be different and satisfying to play over another system that has 3 classes but 3 well designed ones.

It has been said they specialize later on meaning your fighter is not only a fighter but possibly a deadly archer, a raging berserker, a tank or an hybrid of some sort if you wish. What they truly are is an Archetype which is different of a ''class''. If you put DnD Archetypes in a nut's shell you have fighting, stealthing, Arcane magic and Divine magic. Dragon Age has the same Archetypes but instead of having both Arcane and Divine magic, they merged it together. The classes are created from what skills you will pick and how you will specialize your character. Class is only a word that means a character has specialized in a specific role. Having 10 classes in a game is only an illusion of content since its impossible to have that much variance in game designed around fighting monsters.

of coz i don't actually know -- but that doesn't mean i can't make logical deduction. the end result of system that bases itself on 3 classes can only be that sophisticated, no matter how you cut it. that's why even mmos have more than that. yes, it's not out yet, but at the moment it's really not looking all that great. that's the point of this thread, isn't it?

Jinroh_basic

i DO find Planescape Torment and Witcher to be limited when it comes to gameplay. fortunately for P:T, it has a unique story, masterfully written dialogues and plenty of interesting characters to compensate with. Witcher didn't fare that well for me -- i haven't touched it since Chp 4.

regarding classes, i guess none of us knows how exactly it would be implemented ( tho i still stand by my opinion that it would be shallow ). don't get me wrong, i do want this game to be good...it's really the only 2009 titles that i have been looking forward to.

i DO find Planescape Torment and Witcher to be limited when it comes to gameplay. fortunately for P:T, it has a unique story, masterfully written dialogues and plenty of interesting characters to compensate with. Witcher didn't fare that well for me -- i haven't touched it since Chp 4.

regarding classes, i guess none of us knows how exactly it would be implemented ( tho i still stand by my opinion that it would be shallow ). don't get me wrong, i do want this game to be good...it's really the only 2009 titles that i have been looking forward to.

Jinroh_basic

Well its not to be insulting so don't take offense, but maybe you should try looking at things positively instead of trying to find flaws in the unknown based on pure guessing. If you just keep that attitude you are just asking and begging to be disapointed by the game.

It just seem to be a very common trend in your thread to elaborate on everything negative and when you cannot find anymore, you start guessing negativity. Just like in real life, a person always being negative is, bluntly, annoying after a while. Why not discuss about what thrills you about Dragon Age?

you know what? my manager told me the same thing so chances are good that you're right, about me bein pessimistic. :D in anycase, yes, let's all look forward to the actual release. :)

I was hyped...when this game was said to be PC exclusive and a return to BG type of CRPG, which is quite different from Bioware's multiplaform games.

now, it's officially a multiplat. game, and so my hype drops to zero since Bioware's multi effort has been a downward spiral, from decent to almost awful (KotOR-->Jade Empire --> Mass Effect ).

will check it out when time comes, but certainly not expceting anything.

ME plus more open-ended story, more varied side-planets to discover = win in my bookslundy86_4

My main fears is that it will turn out far too simple (mass effect anyone?)

I do like thier art direction, and it ironicly seems akin to the witcher, gameworldwise, which is a + in my book, I hope it will be more mature, and alot grittier then thier past games.

I can not really say anything about the ruleset that lies under the hood, But thier last games were not all too great, I hope this one will be slot more complex.

Saying the spiritual sucessor of BG2 might be a bad publicity stunt for them, most gamers remember those games, and as such they demand the same exact quality of that game + todays bells and whistles, which I doubt they can achieve.

I am happy that they make Dragon age, and I will buy it on release, but the promises of a return to the good old style, and care of the BG games wont be met.

I had high hopes of DA:O destroying the downward spiral that bioware slumped in since Jade Empire but seems I was waaaaaay off.Color me dissapointed.I officially heavily dislike Bioware now.wackys

Care to elaborate what makes you think that? Oh wait the game isn't out...

Seriously, the game sport a party based combat system and all the roleplay found in every Bioware games. That is why they call it a spiritual successor to BG2 as well, because it's sharing similar mechanics and play in a similar way. If you now officialy dislike Bioware based on your views of a game that isn't even out, chances are you never liked them.

Ok, im going to be a little harsh here and will surely be banished from the PC board forever but.....

Stop with this elitist PC attitude towards modern games. Either get with the times or stop gaming. Games have changed, you will see very few, if any, "hardcore" old school PC type games, now or in the future. Big name games require sales, they get bigger budgets so need sales to make money. To make money they need to appeal to the majority of gamers, thats why thay make the games multiplat and as you keep saying "dumb" them down. They can still be great games, just look at Mass Effect, i loved it. Even The Witcher was pretty simple compared to oldschool RPG's yet its one of the best RPG's ever imo.

If anything is hurting PC gaming its the self named "hardcore" section. Those who refuse to change with modern gaming and are stuck in the good old days. Those who refuse to buy *insert modern game* because the menu is too big, or the levels smaller or the view isn't right or the colours too bright.

i could go on and on but i will already be flamed to hell and back so i'll stop there.

I had high hopes of DA:O destroying the downward spiral that bioware slumped in since Jade Empire but seems I was waaaaaay off.Color me dissapointed.I officially heavily dislike Bioware now.wackys

[QUOTE="wackys"]I had high hopes of DA:O destroying the downward spiral that bioware slumped in since Jade Empire but seems I was waaaaaay off.Color me dissapointed.I officially heavily dislike Bioware now.Makari

an update from GS. the answers are pretty vague, and there's nothing we don't already know. notice how he sounded very shifty when GS staff pressed him with questions regarding cIass development.

an update from GS. the answers are pretty vague, and there's nothing we don't already know. notice how he sounded very shifty when GS staff pressed him with questions regarding cIass development.

Jinroh_basic

If you stop looking at early video footage, and start reading about the wonderful things Bioware is putting in this game, maybe your hopes would be revived.

This game is going to be THE RPG of the year for PC. Trust me.

great? i really hope so. but the game isn't exactly in pre-production, and he couldn't even give us an exact name to a subcIass. when a presentation is boatloaded with adjectives and devoid of details, it's always a bad sign.

some people in this forum simply don't know how to read and have been facist in discussing games all along.

DO:A desrves a discussion of *promises* because Bioware has been promoting this game as a return to classical CRPG = BG series.

There are signs indicating this game simply a fantasy version of KotOR-Jade Empire-Mass Effect (all these were NOT said to be successor of BG by Bioware).

Those three games didn't have the "promises" issue because they were not said to be returns to BGs.

Elistist? if name calling is your biggest rhetorical device in gaming DISCUSSION, then you have nothing to contribute to conversations among gamers but your own facist ideal.

some people in this forum simply don't know how to read and have been facist in discussing games all along.

DO:A desrves a discussion of *promises* because Bioware has been promoting this game as a return to classical CRPG = BG series.

There are signs indicating this game simply a fantasy version of KotOR-Jade Empire-Mass Effect (all these were NOT said to be successor of BG by Bioware).

Those three games didn't have the "promises" issue because they were not said to be returns to BGs.

Elistist? if name calling is your biggest rhetorical device in gaming DISCUSSION, then you have nothing to contribute to conversations among gamers but your own facist ideal.

teardropmina

So what exactly is a spiritual successor to Baldur's gate 2 to you? A carbon copy of it remade in 3d? An isometric 2d RPG 1999 style?

As i said in my other post, its a party based rpg that has every mechanics of Baldur's gate and more. They have the right to call it a spiritual successor if they want to. The only thing that remains to fill the shoes is how good the story will be, which once again cannot be determined until the game is out.

Which signs are you talking about here, because having followed the development of this game since the beggining, i can tell you it has nothing to see with any of those games beside being role playing games. Jade empire is an action game, Mass effect is a shooter and Kotor is similar to what Neverwinter Nights is, a linear rpg focussed on a single character with poorly controlable companions (that doesn't mean the games are bad btw).

Everyone is free to discuss what they want, but at least make sure you are informed before trying to debate on something. Otherwise im sure we have the right to call it blatant whining for the sake of whining.

check this out.

originally i was pretty hyped by what the dev promised as "the successor of Baldur's Gate". i don't know about you, but the more i get to see of Dragon Age, the less anticipation i have for this game. from what we know so far, there are very few cIasses to choose from, which means the gameplay would be quite shallow; the game also seems to be quite unchallenging, since the enemies show no sign of saving throw attempt ( or anything equivalent in DA:O ) at all. the result is what you can see in the video -- something that resembles dungeon siege kind of hack and slash rpg than the true hardcore crpgs we all adore.

at the moment, i'm fast becoming disillusioned with Bioware's seemingly empty promises to deliver a top-notched rpg. what about you?

Jinroh_basic