Everquest Next LM Alpha is live....if you got $60.

I guess KH still has the old habit of not able to read properly.

Did you not notice when I used the word "WE" for idiots... as in me included? I even said "notice I used the word we".

WE are letting this happen... I'm a gamer and even though DayZ was my first and last Early Access purchase, I still include myself in this generation of gamers.

You and the people that defend payment for Alphas and the likes are the sole reason why now we have DLC COD Maps at $15, where one of the maps is just a remake.

Keep defending whatever you want to defend, we are not crying about anything, we just have higher standards for our money than you.

Mark my words, we'll soon see KH defending the full price purchase of early concept art...

Including yourself in a blanket statement doesn't mean you didn't call everyone else in your statement an idiot. Basic English, I think.

Read my reply to your post again

So we (including you) are idiots for wanting to play unfinished games and influence how the final product is made? I disagree. Tons of games would have been SPADES better if they were influenced by their fanbase. I think the real idiots are people who buy purchase these early accesses and are unsatisfied (because they were expecting more than an unfinished game). Plenty of people buy these and are satisfied.

Other people are satisfied with their purchases - so why are they idiots? Just because you weren't satisfied with your early access purchase doesn't mean other people are idiots too. Is it so hard to grasp the concept of other people not sharing your preferences? Why do you feel the need to dictate what other people like to spend money on?

Only person here having problems "grasping" concepts is you dude.

Once you learn to do so, get back to us cause it's a waste of time to discuss things with a one sided minded individual.

but he's not the one calling a certain group idiots for wanting to support devs. You're in that group of people that are outraged that people are actually willing to spend money on something they want to play early

They can't be serious....

They should be paying me to waste my time testing their shitty and buggy f2p trash

Oh my Lord.... another person who can't read or doesn't bother to (I don't know which one to be honest now).

I include myself in that group lawlessx, I feel part of the gamers that we are being idiots in allowing devs to get away with whatever.

Do you think the only way to support a dev is financially? If they really needed financial support (which Sony don't) then why don't they just put an option to pay into an account? No, instead they charge for Alpha testing for something that is going to be FREE (Alpha testing used to be by invite).

Even if you fail to read or understand all this.... read this: Why are you paying for something not even barely finished that is going to be FREE when it's actually finished? If you somehow have an excuse for that then there is no point for me to keep replying.

You're the one not reading our posts: nobody cares if you're including yourself in that group. Your point is moot. People aren't idiots for spending money how they want to spend it. If you're the one who isn't satisfied, you should modify your post to "I'm the idiot for allowing devs to sell me an alpha". I just don't see why other people should be considered idiots because they want to participate in a game's development...

Why are you paying for something not even barely finished that is going to be FREE when it's actually finished?

Because they love Everquest and want to give Sony their money so they can better make the product obviously. Who are you to decide how people support a game? As I already said a dozen times - maybe they want to give pitch Sony their ideas on the game.

No, instead they charge for Alpha testing for something that is going to be FREE (Alpha testing used to be by invite).

Only in your fantasy land Felipe.

Yes they have the right, and I have the right to think they are idiots. See how that works? Funny how you want everyone to accept your point of view without debate yet you won't accept anyone else's.

The fact you still are too dense to see the point here that it DOES affect us all is mind boggling. This is an escalation in what people were already not happy about in early access games (which you call pre-orders), this is the first FREE TO PLAY game to charge money to get into the alpha. You cannot see future implications for the way things are done? PC gaming has slowly went from having free demos and striving for the least buggy release possible, then they went to just throwing it out there in alpha stage and charging full price for it (most of them), now to charging the full price of a retail game to get into alpha for a game that is releasing as free. Wtf is next here? I don't even want to know. But I do know as a long time Pc gaming enthusiast it DOES affect me, stop fucking saying it does not.

You are hands down the most frustrating poster to reason with I have seen in my 10+ years here at Gamespot.

This is what is hilarious to me....you think we are pissed because people want to support devs? Seriously? This is the conclusion your logic brings you to? We have ALWAYS supported devs by playing their alphas and betas and testing their games for them FOR FREE. Not only free to them but free for us as well. It is a mutual agreement, you let us play your game early and we will provide testing and feedback for it. This is how pc gaming has always been. Now these same devs we have helped all this time are turning the tables on us and making us pay them to test their game for them. You don't see the bullshit here? And plenty of people are willing to bend on over and take it with a smile, yes I call them idiots.

Like I said, I can see the logic in pre-ordering and gaining early access in alpha/beta as a perk......but holy shit this is a FREE TO PLAY game charging $60-$100 for access into the alpha! You cannot see what this is about?

Thank God for Bethesda/Zenimax, I am playing Elder Scrolls Online for free right now because I provided them tons of feedback in the weekend betas. I was rewarded for my help with full time ongoing beta access. I am not that fond of the game but at least they are doing it the right way, I may buy the game just to reward that alone. That is how I roll.

Well I am clarifying this, because it is pretty obvious a lot of posters don't really know the difference or know about the difference

I don't think you know what a real Alpha is.

Also, if you don't want to support development and have a chance to help influence development, you have all the right not to purchase it. I was extremely impressed with what they have shown and I wanted to support development and include my input. The game is in Alpha, and they made that abundantly clear. Being a software developer, I am actually really impressed with how well it does function while being in alpha. This isn't 'early access' type stuff that is on steam, this is an Alpha where you get to critique the game design elements as it progresses. This isn't for the every day consumer, this is for the patient enthusiast with disposable income that is willing to contribute constructive criticism to the forums.

Just an FYI. Alpha means a lot of the core base game mechanics are functional, but features are missing and a lot is expected to change. Sony's point of view is they can get feedback on how the game plays while they are making it. Betas mean (or should mean) that the game functions mostly but polish is missing. If you are in an Alpha, you are contributing game play critiques; Betas, you are reporting bugs.

... I don't think any of you know what a real alpha is either.

You realise the beta starts in ONE MONTHS TIME? right?

This is the very end of alpha, to the point where its "nearly ready for beta".

This is not early or even mid alpha. why do people fall for this nonsense over and over again?

Its like arguing with hte idiots on the Starbound forums who believe the "beta" malarky, when the game is missing core features and systems and not at the "just general QA testing stage" ... in other words... ALPHA. I even got idiots saying to me "definitions change over time dude" .... NO.... NO. Software Engineering stages don't magically change.... its just marketing BS.

I think all this non-agreement comes down to age and generations.

I'm an older gamer and therefore remember how things were done 20 years ago in the gaming scene.

KH is younger (if that's him on that youtube link), so he has grown up with this last generation of gamers were they are used to paying for anything and everything and are impatient to wait for something.

What confuses me is why he is so determined to defend it when in the past it was all free? Would he really choose to pay for something if he had the choice of it free or paid? I understand he defends his position because obviously he has paid for early access on multiple times so he thinks it's right, but what if those early access were free? or dirt cheap? Would he still pay high price with the thought he is supporting the devs?

Anyway, vfibsux put it clearly before. This affects us ALL. It isn't a coincidence that DLC and Alphas/Betas all used to be free, and now they are all paid. The reason? it's because us gamers allow it. I can't believe people don't understand that simple concept.

Like I said, it's only happening in gaming because this new generation is impatient. It doesn't happen in any other market. If devs tried to charge for what they are charging now 20 years ago... people would laugh at them and even boycott their games. Now it's "sure dev, I'll do anything you say just to play a bit of your game now now now".

Ive worked on and tested alpha software, and this certainly fits the bill.

Here's a mini review of someone playing (got it from another forum):

"Well I’ve got it and played for several hours on the weekend before it went down for the greater part of the day.

It’s alpha, so of course it’s rough, but I’ll just say, it’s very rough. I was tempted by the building – I saw the videos, the dev’s playing around etc and thought it looked like fun. I was also a long time EQ1 and 2 player, so have an affinity for the series.

So far, performance is bad graphically, it’s laggy and it’s almost impossible to find a claim – ie your reserved space to build. So I’ve just spent several hours of carpal tunnel induced mining/chopping trees. You can either single click per strike, or hold the mouse button down and move the cursor around. It’s kind of fun, but it becomes laborious pretty quickly. They did mention they will look at toggling the ability on/off as they won’t be able to keep up with the wrist injury lawsuits.

Graphically it’s pretty clearly the same engine as Planetside, with landscapes that look very reminiscent (which isn’t a bad thing as PS2 has glorious graphics if you ask me) – however there’s not much more than that. It’s just a reoccuring desert landscape that feeds into a fairly empty jungle. No features/landmarks, barely any player made objects, no water of any kind – just the basic underlying framework.

It’s a work in progress in every sense of the word. So if you see an image like at the top of this thread and think omfg I can make castles and it’ll be awesome – I’d reccomend holding off.

On the flip side, the game absolutely wreaks of potential. The above sounds bad but it’s not intended as complaints, more a reflection of it’s current state (and again, it’s a work in progress). Once it’s finished, once all the bugs/gameplay problems are sorted out, once you can dig into underground areas, once you can truly build and there’s a thriving online community, i think this is going to be an absolute cashcow for SOE – moreso seeing it sits alongside and seperate to EQ:Next – which will be a massive cashcow also (as i suspect there’s more ex-EQ vets like myself hungry for more EQ than a lot of people think).

I particularly like the way you mine. When you click the ground, it chips into it. Finding copper is not just banging on a lump of copper – wow style, it’s actually digging into the ground and following a different coloured seam. Seams realistically go down or out – and can lead to other seams – such as copper and tin being beside each other. So you’re going down and INTO the ground. Yes you are actually digging down and into your own cave. Imagine if you (when) can make your own tunnel complexes?! Awesome.

Imagine how magic from EQ:Next will function when it can affect the terrain in this way? Double awesome.

Currently the landscape heals itself pretty rapidly, so there’s not holes everywhere (which would be pretty ungainly), but i think they need to find a balanced median for this or it also wont feel like your mining is having much impact on the terrain. You also cant mine/harvest in your own claims apparently (not that I’ve found a claim yet).

Oh and for anyone reading the above and wanting to drop money and get right into it, there’s also server queues :) I bought an explorer pack a while ago incidentally, was around $50ish."

Sadly, you're right about that. The game industry, especially the larger publishers, have been playing a very smart game of their own over the past three decades. They push to see how much they can get away with - if there is a backlash, they back off a bit, wait until the furore dies down and over time gradually introduce what they intended in the first place. They condition people into accepting a little bit more, and a little bit more, until they achieve their long-term target of total lock-down, where you as the consumer eventually own nothing, but pay for everything.

I remember when EA tried the 'dial home every 30 days' for the original Mass Effect, and the outcry from gamers then. Now, a lot of gamers barely blink an eye when they are told they have to be constantly connected to play a game (eg., Sim City). That's just one example where gamers so easily forget, and forgive, because they want to play that 'cool looking game'. There are many other examples over the past thirty years that I've been gaming, from copy protection to DRM to online clients and all the rest of it.

*sigh*