GoG's Guillaume Rambourg: Steam Sales are hurting the industry

[QUOTE="True_Sounds"]

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

Agree with everything the guy said 100%.

Seems people aren't actually reading the post. The guy said it's better to charge a more reasonable standard price and not rely on ridiculous massive sales off that price for the majority of revenue.

Find someone who says steam's regular non-sale prices are good and you'll have found a moron.

SF_KiLLaMaN

That makes absolutely NO sense. They reason it's a high initial price and then slow price drops and sales is because the market is segmented, and they are trying to maximize profits as much as possible.

The guy from GoG.com is probably frustrated because all his sales have no DRM/cdkeys, and are massively available to be pirated at ease.

Steams main job is being a digital distribution platform not DRM.

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"][QUOTE="vfibsux"]

Steam sales are bad for one thing, they addicted me to buying PC games I may never play lol. Either way isn't it great for the people making the games?? How is that bad? GoG has their niche with the older games, be happy.

GummiRaccoon

I'd rather spend 70 dollars on 12 games 6 of which I play than 120 on 2 games I play.

[QUOTE="GummiRaccoon"]

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"] You just supported their argument. It's bad for people to buy stuff they will never play. That's a bad buying habit to get into. OF course it's not 100% accurate because they assume everyone buys games they don't want only because they're on sale, and that's just not true.SF_KiLLaMaN

I'd rather spend 70 dollars on 12 games 6 of which I play than 120 on 2 games I play.

Yeah saving money is a bad habbit, it is not like the other 6 games are going to waste.

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"][QUOTE="GummiRaccoon"]

I'd rather spend 70 dollars on 12 games 6 of which I play than 120 on 2 games I play.

GummiRaccoon

Yeah saving money is a bad habbit, it is not like the other 6 games are going to waste.

[QUOTE="GummiRaccoon"]

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"] You're missing the point, why buy the other 6 games? It has nothing to do with comparing full price to sale price, it has everything to do with buying something you really don't want. It's a bad habit. SF_KiLLaMaN

Yeah saving money is a bad habbit, it is not like the other 6 games are going to waste.

No, you are having a hard time understanding. Say I have 120 bucks to spend. I see 2 brand new AAA games for 60 bucks a peice. I pick them up, play them, I get 20 hours each out of them, the end. Now let's say I see those 2 games for 60 bucks but I remember that steam has awesome sales, so I take those 120 bucks and go to steam, I then pick out any game that may interest me, I ended up with 12 games for 70 total. I play 6 of those games, each giving me 10-20 hours and then I don't play the other 6 due to time constraints.

How exactly is the 2nd option a bad decision, I got more play time for less money. I then spend the extra 50 on Johnnie Walker green.

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"][QUOTE="GummiRaccoon"]

Yeah saving money is a bad habbit, it is not like the other 6 games are going to waste.

GummiRaccoon

No, you are having a hard time understanding. Say I have 120 bucks to spend. I see 2 brand new AAA games for 60 bucks a peice. I pick them up, play them, I get 20 hours each out of them, the end. Now let's say I see those 2 games for 60 bucks but I remember that steam has awesome sales, so I take those 120 bucks and go to steam, I then pick out any game that may interest me, I ended up with 12 games for 70 total. I play 6 of those games, each giving me 10-20 hours and then I don't play the other 6 due to time constraints.

How exactly is the 2nd option a bad decision, I got more play time for less money. I then spend the extra 50 on Johnnie Walker green.

[QUOTE="GummiRaccoon"]

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"] You're not saving money, your wasting it by not playing the games you buy. It has NOTHING to do with the price of the games. This is not a hard concept to understand.....SF_KiLLaMaN

No, you are having a hard time understanding. Say I have 120 bucks to spend. I see 2 brand new AAA games for 60 bucks a peice. I pick them up, play them, I get 20 hours each out of them, the end. Now let's say I see those 2 games for 60 bucks but I remember that steam has awesome sales, so I take those 120 bucks and go to steam, I then pick out any game that may interest me, I ended up with 12 games for 70 total. I play 6 of those games, each giving me 10-20 hours and then I don't play the other 6 due to time constraints.

How exactly is the 2nd option a bad decision, I got more play time for less money. I then spend the extra 50 on Johnnie Walker green.

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"]

[QUOTE="GummiRaccoon"]

No, you are having a hard time understanding. Say I have 120 bucks to spend. I see 2 brand new AAA games for 60 bucks a peice. I pick them up, play them, I get 20 hours each out of them, the end. Now let's say I see those 2 games for 60 bucks but I remember that steam has awesome sales, so I take those 120 bucks and go to steam, I then pick out any game that may interest me, I ended up with 12 games for 70 total. I play 6 of those games, each giving me 10-20 hours and then I don't play the other 6 due to time constraints.

How exactly is the 2nd option a bad decision, I got more play time for less money. I then spend the extra 50 on Johnnie Walker green.

demi0227_basic

[QUOTE="GummiRaccoon"]

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"] You're not saving money, your wasting it by not playing the games you buy. It has NOTHING to do with the price of the games. This is not a hard concept to understand.....SF_KiLLaMaN

No, you are having a hard time understanding. Say I have 120 bucks to spend. I see 2 brand new AAA games for 60 bucks a peice. I pick them up, play them, I get 20 hours each out of them, the end. Now let's say I see those 2 games for 60 bucks but I remember that steam has awesome sales, so I take those 120 bucks and go to steam, I then pick out any game that may interest me, I ended up with 12 games for 70 total. I play 6 of those games, each giving me 10-20 hours and then I don't play the other 6 due to time constraints.

How exactly is the 2nd option a bad decision, I got more play time for less money. I then spend the extra 50 on Johnnie Walker green.

I think what SF_KiLLaMaN means is that the sales make you buy games because they're cheap. Games you wouldn't buy if it wasn't for the sale, and the buyer ends up not even playing the game (wasting money), while still thinking that he/she saved money by buying it. While the truth being that the person wouldn't even buy such game if it weren't for the sale.

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"]

[QUOTE="GummiRaccoon"]

No, you are having a hard time understanding. Say I have 120 bucks to spend. I see 2 brand new AAA games for 60 bucks a peice. I pick them up, play them, I get 20 hours each out of them, the end. Now let's say I see those 2 games for 60 bucks but I remember that steam has awesome sales, so I take those 120 bucks and go to steam, I then pick out any game that may interest me, I ended up with 12 games for 70 total. I play 6 of those games, each giving me 10-20 hours and then I don't play the other 6 due to time constraints.

How exactly is the 2nd option a bad decision, I got more play time for less money. I then spend the extra 50 on Johnnie Walker green.

demi0227_basic

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"]

[QUOTE="GummiRaccoon"]

No, you are having a hard time understanding. Say I have 120 bucks to spend. I see 2 brand new AAA games for 60 bucks a peice. I pick them up, play them, I get 20 hours each out of them, the end. Now let's say I see those 2 games for 60 bucks but I remember that steam has awesome sales, so I take those 120 bucks and go to steam, I then pick out any game that may interest me, I ended up with 12 games for 70 total. I play 6 of those games, each giving me 10-20 hours and then I don't play the other 6 due to time constraints.

How exactly is the 2nd option a bad decision, I got more play time for less money. I then spend the extra 50 on Johnnie Walker green.

demi0227_basic

Business and/or econ major?

Also to further add to my point, those 6 unused games aren't necessarily unused for all time. Say 6 months down the road I am itching for a game I haven't played yet, and my time constraints have been lifted, well I have 6 games I already own to choose from. No cost to me whatsoever.

[QUOTE="demi0227_basic"][QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"] THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PRICE. How is that hard to understand? When games are on sale, you tend to buy more stuff that you don't actually want. The actual price is not relevant. What is relevant is that you're spending money on something you don't want and won't use, regardless of how cheap it is. That is the person's claim, and he is mostly right. You're trying to make a different point that I'm not challenging or trying to address.

SF_KiLLaMaN

So you are making the arguement that buying 1 game for 60 bucks is less wastful than buying 2 games for 10 bucks but you don't play one?

I'm sure my bank account balance will go to show that the extra 50 bucks missing is somehow less wasted.

[QUOTE="Baranga"]

So he says game prices should be reasonable from the start and that's why they sell so many games at full price. But he also b*tches about the competition heavily discounting the unreasonably priced games.

SF_KiLLaMaN

Games are unreasonably priced when B-tier products like the new Ridge Racer or Call of Juarez are sent to die at 60 dollars. I bought The Darkness 2 at 50% off three weeks after launch and LA Noire was 50% off two weeks after launch.

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"]

[QUOTE="demi0227_basic"] To clarify...you claim cost doesn't matter. How so? Cost is imperative to waste. In the idea of waste, we must consider the cost. DD games are not anything but fictitious claims to a property right. There is no ecological footprint in this equation of waste. Say we were talking about milk instead of games. I get 6 gallons of milk, a real thing, and waste it. It could have been used elsewhere. The plastic took resources to produce and will pollute if not recycled. There is concern for waste in that equation, where we replace the particulars of an idea, and put that concept into a physical thing. DD are not "wasted" in this fashion...thus we must concern ourselves with price for games. 2 games for 120 is less useful than 6 games for 120...thus its more "wasteful" to short yourselves the games.GummiRaccoon

So you are making the arguement that buying 1 game for 60 bucks is less wastful than buying 2 games for 10 bucks but you don't play one?

I'm sure my bank account balance will go to show that the extra 50 bucks missing is somehow less wasted.

[QUOTE="GummiRaccoon"]

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"] If you don't play something you pay for, that is a waste of money. You essential payed real money for nothing of value to you, regardless of the price. If you play the game, it is not a waste of money. Understand the concept now? If he doesn't play 6 of the games, he wasted the money he spend on those 6 games. It has nothing to do with comparing it to full price games, he simply bought something he is never going to use, and, therefore, wasted his money. Get it now?

SF_KiLLaMaN

So you are making the arguement that buying 1 game for 60 bucks is less wastful than buying 2 games for 10 bucks but you don't play one?

I'm sure my bank account balance will go to show that the extra 50 bucks missing is somehow less wasted.

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"][QUOTE="GummiRaccoon"]

So you are making the arguement that buying 1 game for 60 bucks is less wastful than buying 2 games for 10 bucks but you don't play one?

I'm sure my bank account balance will go to show that the extra 50 bucks missing is somehow less wasted.

Lox_Cropek

[QUOTE="GummiRaccoon"]

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"] If you don't play something you pay for, that is a waste of money. You essential payed real money for nothing of value to you, regardless of the price. If you play the game, it is not a waste of money. Understand the concept now? If he doesn't play 6 of the games, he wasted the money he spend on those 6 games. It has nothing to do with comparing it to full price games, he simply bought something he is never going to use, and, therefore, wasted his money. Get it now?

SF_KiLLaMaN

So you are making the arguement that buying 1 game for 60 bucks is less wastful than buying 2 games for 10 bucks but you don't play one?

I'm sure my bank account balance will go to show that the extra 50 bucks missing is somehow less wasted.

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"][QUOTE="GummiRaccoon"]

So you are making the arguement that buying 1 game for 60 bucks is less wastful than buying 2 games for 10 bucks but you don't play one?

I'm sure my bank account balance will go to show that the extra 50 bucks missing is somehow less wasted.

guynamedbilly

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"][QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"] Yes, that is my argument, and it is the correct one. If you play the game, you didn't waste your money as you are getting enjoyment out of it. If you buy a game and never play it, you just threw money away. It has nothing to do with price. Of course you can go on talking about the subjective aspect of waste (money to enjoyment ratio I guess you could call it) but I'm sticking strictly to what is objective. I'm sure everyone here can agree that if you spend money on something you never use, it's a waste. SF_KiLLaMaN

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"]

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"] How is this argument at all relevant to the real world? That's like reading a book on philosophy while riding a sinking ship. Regardless of what esoteric values you place on not wasting your $60 game, the counter argument was still spending less money, still getting more games, and still playing more games.guynamedbilly

A sale is a sale, they are getting money from me that they wouldnt normally get cause I rarely buy games for full price, because of economic constraints or because I just think the game isnt worth it. To me its simple as that, business is better then no business.

I don't agree.

I have been buying more games than I have the time to play since long before steam started having sales.

We all know gamers who spend more every month on games than they want to, just because there were too many games that were discounted too deeply. That's not good for anyone."

illmatic87

Not good for anyone ?

It's good for the developers/publishers because they get money from people they would not have gotten if the game was not on sale

It's good for gamers because they have a bigger library of games to choose from what they want to play. More choice = better.

I think a lot of us have a huge backlog of games ? But is that really a bad thing ? It offers us a choice what we want to play next.

Steam sure as hell ain't the reason for people having a backlog, it may have increased them sure, but it's not the cause.

Taking the point at its barest, what he's saying does make sense. I spent over 70 bucks (not a lot, I know) and got dozens of games in the Christmas 2010 sale. Out of those I've only completed Mafia 2 and that was only this summer (after watching the Godfather again); otherwise, haven't even installed a bunch of them. If I paid more or full price, I definitely would have put time into them as to get my money's worth. And if Steam has taught me anything, NEVER buy on day 1 if you can afford to wait. I only made one significant purchase on Steam in 2011, in comparison to the year prior.

In the end, however, I think the consumer wins either way. If I want to play my backlog, I still have them on hand. I just have to be in the right mood. Competitors lowering prices isn't a new practice, and with the amount of buzz Steam sales generate, I'd have to think Steam is certainly helping PC gaming in more ways than not. Hard for folks to admit, but GoG is for the veterans. You're not going to get anyone into PC gaming with those fossils--fantastic and nostalgia-inducing as they are.

Well this is just completely stupid. Steam sales are awesome for people who want games for low prices that they couldn't afford before because it was too high in price. If someone buys a game on the Steam sale that they never had an interest in playing then I feel the blame should go directly on the buyer, I mean, he had no intrest in the game, why buy it then? Just because it's cheap? I'd like to think there are more people in the world better than that and will only buy what they want rather than something extra with the simple fact that "it's cheap."

Also, the psychology nonsense is pretty stupid as well that because the game was put on sale and was made cheaper it somehow diminishes the overall value. I mean, really? I guess it's just me but I don't see how ANYONE could say something like that. These top tier games are cheap because of time, the publishers and developers, and just simple common sense and common logic in the gaming industry. Here's an example: On Thursday, GOG itself made the post-appocalyptic RPG Fallout sell for free. You could download the game for free and play it for free without spending a single buck on it. Now, if my history is correct, Fallout is one of the biggest games that was ever released and was a real head spinner back in the day. Reciveing a lot of praise and GOTY awards it really put it's foot down in the gaming industry. So now that it was free to purchase just a couple of days ago does that mean that the overall value of a game is diminished? I don't see how or why.

Really, I don't see the problem with Steam in the slightest or even understand GOG's problem with it so I have to go with the second choice. They have to be doing this for the sole reason because they are competitors and what not other than that I can't see why they would even think that.

He has a point but i think his point is wrong. Sales have proven to produce more sales, more fans of game, and more money for devs and publishers.

During this discussion, I purchased metro 2033 from amazon for $5, I have no immediate plans to play it, although I may later, but if I don't buy it now for $5 I may have to pay $20 to play it when I actually do want to play it.

cool story bro guess back to xbox live

For me, sales mean I buy games I might not ever bother with at full or even half-price. I bought Bioshock and Metro 2033 in sales, but must admit that I lost interest in both - too dark (visually) for me.

On the other hand, I poured hours into Terraria, Assassin's Creed and Dirt 2, similarly "What the hell, they're cheap" impulse buys and spent many hours playing both. I ended up buying Dirt 3 full price (AC2 and AC:B half price from GG), so these sales can expose me to some games I might have been wary of and actually hand the devs future sales.

I rarely buy from Steam outside of their sales (unless I pretty much have to, Dirt 3 being a case in point) as I'll always be looking for the best deal on new releases - which sometimes is Steam (e.g. Portal 2, perhaps unfairly). A lot of the download stores have a way to go before I buy from them on a regular basis, though.

[QUOTE="vfibsux"]

Steam sales are bad for one thing, they addicted me to buying PC games I may never play lol. Either way isn't it great for the people making the games?? How is that bad? GoG has their niche with the older games, be happy.

SF_KiLLaMaN

[QUOTE="GummiRaccoon"]

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"] You just supported their argument. It's bad for people to buy stuff they will never play. That's a bad buying habit to get into. OF course it's not 100% accurate because they assume everyone buys games they don't want only because they're on sale, and that's just not true.SF_KiLLaMaN

I'd rather spend 70 dollars on 12 games 6 of which I play than 120 on 2 games I play.

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"][QUOTE="GummiRaccoon"]

I'd rather spend 70 dollars on 12 games 6 of which I play than 120 on 2 games I play.

vfibsux

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"][QUOTE="GummiRaccoon"]

I'd rather spend 70 dollars on 12 games 6 of which I play than 120 on 2 games I play.

vfibsux

He does have a point. It's each person's own business and responsibility to decide what they want to buy, and I can actually say why it's not bad for everybody to buy games on sale from Steam:

-- it supports the people who make the game.

-- it supports steam to make sales like these ones in the future.

-- you may actually find something you like on sale.

-- Steam probably makes out a substantial amount of the Witcher 2's sales, which enables developers and digital publishers like CDProjekt to continue being in business and able to tell us why their service is better than the competition.

Also remember, this is a free market society. If we want more of something you vote with your money. I like the fact that steam and amazon have amazing sales so I will throw my money at them whenever I get the chance.

Also remember, this is a free market society. If we want more of something you vote with your money. I like the fact that steam and amazon have amazing sales so I will throw my money at them whenever I get the chance.

GummiRaccoon

What a load of crap.

Steam sales are good for customers and good for developers and good for Steam. I remember one developer (cant remember who) said they made more from a steam sale, discounted at 75% or something years after release, than they did in the first month of release.

I have been exposed to a wide variety of games that I would have never played if it werent for steam. Developers got my money and I have a huge library of games. Everyone wins.

Not to mention the Indie developers that have made a ton off of steam sales.

The only thing that Steam sales arent good for are steam's competiters that don't have competitive sales. That's how the free market works.

I like GOG and all but they don't have many games that I want. I think the only game that I've bought is Ultima 7. Their games are old.

[QUOTE="vfibsux"][QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"] You're missing the point, why buy the other 6 games? It has nothing to do with comparing full price to sale price, it has everything to do with buying something you really don't want. It's a bad habit. SF_KiLLaMaN

He's not your bro, man.

[QUOTE="SF_KiLLaMaN"]

[QUOTE="vfibsux"] So is preaching about things that are none of your business. Go harass a smoker or nosepicker. True_Sounds

He's not your bro, man.

When PC games were 20 - 40 dollars brand new, I used to buy retail . . . ALL THE TIME.

When games went to 60 dollars, I swore I'd never buy another game for full price again, and I don't. I buy games I want and will play, but I wait until Steam is selling themcheap during a sale.

Hey guy's what about Onlive's sales... They do really cheap ones aswell as steam des