Has Diablo 2 been dethroned yet?

I really do not think any iso ARPG (loot driven and multiplayer) have topped Diablo II yet. There are certain things about Torchlight 2 and Diablo 3 that are nice additions to the genre and such, but D2 is really the whole package, only suffering from some graphical issues being so old and outdated.

I enjoyed DIII but it doesnt match DII.

I am enjoying TL2 and will wait to reserve judgement, but it just doesn't have the budget needed (assuming that is the reason) to trump D2.

I enjoyed Path of Exile and need to (and will) play it more when it goes into open beta on the 23rd. I definitely don't see this beating D2, but its very good and has some unique ideas in place.

Grim Dawn is the one game I see right now with the potential to deliver the whole package, just as D2 had.

Diablo 1 is the best ever IMO. Others failed to match the atmosphere.

Not sure what you mean by dethroned but Diablo 3 is a better game than Diablo 2.

Diablo 1 is the best ever IMO. Others failed to match the atmosphere.

SovietsUnited

While D1 does have some killer atmosphere, it fails out in every other department when compared to DII. It was good for the time, and it is fun to play now and again for nostalgia and to soak it in, but its aged hard :P.

I still have yet to play DIII. I don't have a computer powerful enough to play it. I am building one currently, however. With that said, though, I loved D2 and have logged in a lot of hours! The online was amazing and I honestly can say that I haven't played a game like it yet.

Diablo 2 is one of my favorite games of all time; however, I am hard-pressed to still say its king. I read a lot of the forums saying Diablo 3 is "too much of a grind, too much like WoW." I begin to wonder if these people actually played Diablo 2 with its countless Baal and cow runs.

I don't understand the complaint about the AH either. Yes, they're are stupid people who price stuff way over the cost of what it should be, but it beats D2's system that much more. I hated going into trade games trying to find someone willing to take what I have for in exchange for what I wanted. Way too time consuming and it takes me away from actually playing the game. Now we can post something on the AH, go back to playing and use the gold we get back to buy what we want.

About the only place I will give D2 players in saying that D3 didnt' live up is the skill system and stat allocation system. Personally, I don't miss the stat allocation system as I was never the player to break out the spreadsheet to determine the exact number for each stat point. The skill system - I'm on the fence. Yes, I do miss making my unique tree, but the D3 developers said to make it the way they did was the best way to balance the game. I'm still not sure the game has been balanced with this however.

In short, I think Diablo 3 has a lot of issues that still need ironing out and for how long it was in development, I'm a little surprised there's still so many issues present; however, I think it has a lot of potential to become "the" loot-drive ARPG, but whether its a few other patches, or the expansion to get to that title, I'm not quite sure.

That said, I haven't played TL2 and was about to pick it up during the steam sale if I wasn't currently playing D3. I cannot comment on how TL2 compares to D2 or D3.

Path of Exile could go there, but it isnt there quite yet. But as for now, Diablo 2 is king.

Whereas Diablo 3 might get there with an expansion. But as for now, I have absolutely 0 intentions of returning. Easily the worst game I played last year.

D3 has unmatched combat imo. Nothing is as fun as a Barbarian.

D3 has unmatched combat imo. Nothing is as fun as a Barbarian.

ChubbyGuy40

Diablo 1 is the best ever IMO. Others failed to match the atmosphere.

SovietsUnited

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

D3 has unmatched combat imo. Nothing is as fun as a Barbarian.

Nibroc420

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

D3 has unmatched combat imo. Nothing is as fun as a Barbarian.

KHAndAnime

[QUOTE="SovietsUnited"]

Diablo 1 is the best ever IMO. Others failed to match the atmosphere.

KHAndAnime

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

D3 has unmatched combat imo. Nothing is as fun as a Barbarian.

Nibroc420

You can't be serious. You haven't played either game if you honestly think that.

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

D3 has unmatched combat imo. Nothing is as fun as a Barbarian.

ChubbyGuy40

You can't be serious. You haven't played either game if you honestly think that.

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

D3 has unmatched combat imo. Nothing is as fun as a Barbarian.

ChubbyGuy40

You can't be serious. You haven't played either game if you honestly think that.

[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"][QUOTE="SovietsUnited"]

Diablo 1 is the best ever IMO. Others failed to match the atmosphere.

DanielDust

Diablo 1 is not as hard as they are making it sound. It is very hard in the beginning (Butcher is the hardest boss) and has its moments, but Diablo II ramps up in difficulty as you go (with the exception of NM which is the easiest mode in my opinion), as to where Diablo 1 gets easier as you go through the game. DIablo is laughable for an end game boss. I remember my brother when we were little using his amazon with a bow point blank and never moving. so stupid. D1 has atmosphere, nothing more.

Titan Quest did it for me. Torchlight 1 & 2 were worth a playthrough, but I could never go back to them. Diablo 3 had my attention for quite some time, but its more of a co-op game, and most of my time spent with these types of games is by myself. Nox didn't do it for me. Din's Curse was OK, but was really held back by the lack of budget.

Titan Quest, for me at least, is a game I can boot up and never find it getting stale. Plus, I really like mythology as a base for anything.

Not sure what you mean by dethroned but Diablo 3 is a better game than Diablo 2.

-Unreal-

I think Diablo 1 and 2 were both amazing games for their time, and Diablo 2 (more so than D1) still maintains at least some of its appeal. But the sad truth is that they are just way too dated now. I went on an ARPG bender the other day and played every ARPG I own, for at least a little bit. Playing Diablo 2 (with a bnet character I've kept alive over the years, so I wasn't just starting brand new again), it's definitely getting painfully dated. Like, I still know that there are loads of things about it that just work better than any other ARPG I've played, but it's just not that satisfying to play anymore. I'll take Diablo 3, Torchlight 2, or Path of Exile over it any day, now.

I think Diablo 1 and 2 were both amazing games for their time, and Diablo 2 (more so than D1) still maintains at least some of its appeal. But the sad truth is that they are just way too dated now. I went on an ARPG bender the other day and played every ARPG I own, for at least a little bit. Playing Diablo 2 (with a bnet character I've kept alive over the years, so I wasn't just starting brand new again), it's definitely getting painfully dated. Like, I still know that there are loads of things about it that just work better than any other ARPG I've played, but it's just not that satisfying to play anymore. I'll take Diablo 3, Torchlight 2, or Path of Exile over it any day, now.

the_bi99man

I agree about graphics (the choppy look of it, not the actual graphics), but otherwise its still the best in my opinion. THere are certain things that other ARPG's added to the genre that are nice additions though.

I think if TL2 was repainted with darker more Diablo like graphics, and given the time and money to put more emphasis on the presentation (voice acting, nice set piece areas and bosses and so on), it would be the best ARPG to date.

On the subject of horror and atmosphere, I think that the only way to capture it is to go back to the pixel look and feel that the first two had. It seems like the only way to emulate that feel with 3D visuals is to intentionally make the game dark with a small view area. Not only is that incredibly outdated, but it's bad design especially with today's standards. Path of Exile is doing a fine job of capturing that feel, but every video I see looks like they're trying to emulate D2 all the way down to the animations. Personally, that's a huge turn off.

I've beaten inferno with a barbarian, so I'm pretty sure i know how the barbarian plays ;)Nibroc420

You're trying to say two games that play nothing alike, are actually identical. You have to be pants-on-head stupid to even think that. Not only that, but that statement would apply to many other ARPGs out there.

[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]

I think Diablo 1 and 2 were both amazing games for their time, and Diablo 2 (more so than D1) still maintains at least some of its appeal. But the sad truth is that they are just way too dated now. I went on an ARPG bender the other day and played every ARPG I own, for at least a little bit. Playing Diablo 2 (with a bnet character I've kept alive over the years, so I wasn't just starting brand new again), it's definitely getting painfully dated. Like, I still know that there are loads of things about it that just work better than any other ARPG I've played, but it's just not that satisfying to play anymore. I'll take Diablo 3, Torchlight 2, or Path of Exile over it any day, now.

NaveedLife

I agree about graphics (the choppy look of it, not the actual graphics), but otherwise its still the best in my opinion. THere are certain things that other ARPG's added to the genre that are nice additions though.

I think if TL2 was repainted with darker more Diablo like graphics, and given the time and money to put more emphasis on the presentation (voice acting, nice set piece areas and bosses and so on), it would be the best ARPG to date.

I've heard there's a mod for TL2 to give it a much darker tone. Might just be a sweetfx preset or something. I'm gonna have to look for it and try it.

Not sure what you mean by dethroned but Diablo 3 is a better game than Diablo 2.

-Unreal-

Yeah going to have to disagree with you there.. Diablo 3 has entirely too many faults.. Though hopefully they fix and add the things that are needed to make it successful.. Afterall D2 wasn't the game it is now at its release, it took numerous patches and a expansion..

Speaking of expansion, what do you guys think D3's expansion will take us and what features/content it'll add?

It's pretty obvious we're going to chase down Adria (you really don't need spoiler tags for this awful story) and the Black Soulstone. I really hope we get side-quests and content for followers as well, since their background was the most interesting part about Diablo 3's story and it definitely deserves to be followed. More side quests in general are a must though.

I may be in the minority but i think D3 is actually better than D2..

Path of Exile is doing a fine job of capturing that feel, but every video I see looks like they're trying to emulate D2 all the way down to the animations. Personally, that's a huge turn off.

ChubbyGuy40

Yeah, as well designed as Path of Exile is, the animations are pretty darn terrible. In fact, I would argue that that is the biggest issue of the game right now. I really wish they opted for sprites as opposed to 3D.

I liked Darkstone better than Diablo 2 so, at least for me, Diablo 2 was "dethroned" in 1999 before it was released.

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

Path of Exile is doing a fine job of capturing that feel, but every video I see looks like they're trying to emulate D2 all the way down to the animations. Personally, that's a huge turn off.

Maroxad

Yeah, as well designed as Path of Exile is, the animations are pretty darn terrible. In fact, I would argue that that is the biggest issue of the game right now. I really wish they opted for sprites as opposed to 3D.

I don't know what he is talking about though, saying the animations and other stuff copies Diablo. Diablo 2's animations are nothing like that and perfectly fine (for what it is). PoE character animations are pretty terrible I agree, but a lot is great as you guys said.

I don't think so. Diablo 2 is isometric, ARPG perfection.

I think Diablo 1 and 2 were both amazing games for their time, and Diablo 2 (more so than D1) still maintains at least some of its appeal. But the sad truth is that they are just way too dated now. I went on an ARPG bender the other day and played every ARPG I own, for at least a little bit. Playing Diablo 2 (with a bnet character I've kept alive over the years, so I wasn't just starting brand new again), it's definitely getting painfully dated. Like, I still know that there are loads of things about it that just work better than any other ARPG I've played, but it's just not that satisfying to play anymore. I'll take Diablo 3, Torchlight 2, or Path of Exile over it any day, now.

the_bi99man

Playing Diablo 2:LoD in 800*600 is probably why, that gave me the same impression. I have a solution for you. Up the resolution to 1024*768 with a random, good mod you could find on google. It's the sweet spot. It's not that high to make the sprites look small, and it makes the game look so much better.

Now if you're talking about the gameplay.. i don't know what you're talking about. It's.. fluid, responsive, addictive and satisfying. I can definitly still run a full playtrough if i start, and enjoy myself, even though i've played newer ones. It's 2D bliss.

Hell, i'm gonna replay it right now.

And about Diablo 1... Eh. Yeah, it's way to slow. And that damned resolution is beyond salvation. But what it still has, is one hell of a religious-horror themed atmosphere. One of the best there is. I could probably replay it.. I actually haven't played Diablo 1 in over 4 years, i only finished it once.

I don't know what he is talking about though, saying the animations and other stuff copies Diablo.

NaveedLife

As in the animations are sh!tty. When I first saw gameplay footage I thought it was some kind of mod for D2.

[QUOTE="SovietsUnited"]

Diablo 1 is the best ever IMO. Others failed to match the atmosphere.

NaveedLife

While D1 does have some killer atmosphere, it fails out in every other department when compared to DII. It was good for the time, and it is fun to play now and again for nostalgia and to soak it in, but its aged hard :P.

LOL no. Diablo 1 to this day is still more enjoyable to play through than D2 and D3. It has a better narrative, more interesting NPCs, better atmosphere and pacing.

I don't think it's been dethroned yet. Torchlight 2 beats it in every way as far as game design, but Diablo 2 still has better production values with the cinematics and story. Diablo 2 also has dedicated servers whereas Torchlight 2 is peer to peer only. As far as online, I think Path of Exile could beat it, but it's still in beta and has some issues to be ironed out.

[QUOTE="SovietsUnited"]

Diablo 1 is the best ever IMO. Others failed to match the atmosphere.

KHAndAnime

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

[QUOTE="SovietsUnited"]

Diablo 1 is the best ever IMO. Others failed to match the atmosphere.

ShimmerMan

While D1 does have some killer atmosphere, it fails out in every other department when compared to DII. It was good for the time, and it is fun to play now and again for nostalgia and to soak it in, but its aged hard :P.

LOL no. Diablo 1 to this day is still more enjoyable to play through than D2 and D3. It has a better narrative, more interesting NPCs, better atmosphere and pacing.

pacing? you mean going straight down a cellar to hell, then killing Diablo with ease? No it is not the best at pacing (or running, since the PC version has no run toggle).

(Good) multiplayer goes to D2

Loot goes to D2

Skill system and skills go to D2

Again the atmosphere is pretty darn good in D1, but D2 does it pretty good (not as good) too, and everything else better.

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

I don't know what he is talking about though, saying the animations and other stuff copies Diablo.

ChubbyGuy40

As in the animations are sh!tty. When I first saw gameplay footage I thought it was some kind of mod for D2.

Ummm have you played D2 or Path of Exile? Seriously, you need to get your eyes checked.

as i have played all three diablos. the d2 was amazing. d3 lost the fun of d2 being able to trade items for items. that was half the fun in d2. now its very straight forward in d3. the level construct of d3 was pretty good though. i like what they did with that. i just found d2 to be much more of enjoyable game.

D2 and its expansion LOD are still the champions. The loot system and community was just so amazing. I was hoping D3 could live up to it but was wrong :(.

I wish the consoles had some competing ARPGs. Whatever happened to the Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance or Champions of Norrath games?!KHAndAnime

I think some of you all may be looking through rose-tinted glasses on D2. What about the duping, botting, hacking, enigmas? The skill system encouraged using 1 maybe 2 skills and only a limited viable builds per class. Itemization was similar to the skill system in that each class had their set of gear they achieved and deviated from that very little.

Don't get me wrong. D2 was probably my most played game growing up, but it seems everyone is putting it up on a pedestal as being the perfect ARPG when it's far from it.

I wish the consoles had some competing ARPGs. Whatever happened to the Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance or Champions of Norrath games?!KHAndAnime

I thought the gameplay in those games (Dark Alliance/Champions of Norrath) was much better than the point & click gameplay of the Diablo (and Diablo like) games. Analog movement, directing ranged attacks, manual blocking..

For real time arpgs, this is the way to go. Point & click is better for the more tactical rpgs.

I think some of you all may be looking through rose-tinted glasses on D2. What about the duping, botting, hacking, enigmas? The skill system encouraged using 1 maybe 2 skills and only a limited viable builds per class. Itemization was similar to the skill system in that each class had their set of gear they achieved and deviated from that very little.

Don't get me wrong. D2 was probably my most played game growing up, but it seems everyone is putting it up on a pedestal as being the perfect ARPG when it's far from it.

Cwagmire21

DII is not perfect, hence my 9.5 I gave it despite being my most played game of all time and in a sense (hard to comapare to OOT and others) my favorite. It has its issues, but it is the most complete and addicting iso ARPG I have played to date.

The more I play TL2 the more I like it. Having played tons of DIII and now a lot of TL2, I am sad that we never got Blizzard North's Diablo III. TL2 with the graphics and production values of Diablo would be the best ARPG to date.