I don't understand why us PC Gamers accept Skyrim...

Let me explain this a bit. I'm not a big fan of Elder Scrolls Series but that doesn't influence my enquiry.

- For Morrowind lots of people said it's great with mods.

- For Oblivion, there were lots of complaints but then with mods it was considered one of the best RPGs.

- What I see now for Skyrim, is everyone hyping it to heaven and back... but the same phrase over and over "It will be great once the modders bring out the mods"

WHY do we accept this?

WHY should we accept a game that is flawed until mods come out for it?

Shouldn't the game be released FROM THE DEVS good enough to not need a complete mod overhaul to be great?

(I'm not bashing the game or anything, just curious about the way we are accepting it)

Let me explain this a bit. I'm not a big fan of Elder Scrolls Series but that doesn't influence my enquiry.

- For Morrowind lots of people said it's great with mods.

- For Oblivion, there were lots of complaints but then with mods it was considered one of the best RPGs.

- What I see now for Skyrim, is everyone hyping it to heaven and back... but the same phrase over and over "It will be great once the modders bring out the mods"

WHY do we accept this?

WHY should we accept a game that is flawed until mods come out for it?

Shouldn't the game be released FROM THE DEVS good enough to not need a complete mod overhaul to be great?

(I'm not bashing the game or anything, just curious about the way we are accepting it)

FelipeInside

You are right. That is why I am not buying it.

they are one of the ONLY devs out there that let gamers create mods in such quantity, and the one of the few game series with an SDK so easy to use and make your own mods big or small. They are also masters of the sandbox. Sure, their writing and voice acting suck, but no series comes close to the fantasy sandbox an elder scrolls game offers. The game is what you the player make out of it.

I've literally thrown out the old oblivion systems and made my own custom tailored RPG that suits me. No game can do that

First of all oblivion was a great game just vanilla. I only used mods for extra gameplay and more things to do once the story is complete. Oblivion wasn't given a review score of 9.3 just because of all the mods it was given a 9.3 because it was a great game with many hours of exploring and questing. I never played it when it was first released, but I don't see how it was flawed when it first came out. Some mods may better the experience, but it's not like it sucks without them.

I thought Oblivion was such a great game, I didn't notice any issues.DevilMightCry

I agree that the base game should be able to stand on its own. I really didn't like Oblivion, especially after how awesome Morrowind was, so I had no interest in the game... mods or otherwise. And I'm not really expecting much better from Skyrim. Looks like Oblivion with dragons...

Same here. Loved Oblivion and never used mods. Only except was leveling to take major skills has minor or you'd overlevel.

I played Morrowind on Xbox and Oblivion on Xbox 360, so I didn't get to mod it, and I still loved it, I personally won't be modding the game until I've run out of standard stuff to do, that will be after such a long time that there will be expansions by then no doubt haha

I disagree with everyone saying "It will be good then mods are out", I've spent hours trying to find mods to justify a PC purchase and can't find many, yeah some mods look awesome but not worth the $30 Gamestop are charging for it, I don't know how much it is on Steam but either way, I'm gonna be playing Vanilla Skyrim for a long while

they are one of the ONLY devs out there that let gamers create mods in such quantity, and the one of the few game series with an SDK so easy to use and make your own mods big or small. They are also masters of the sandbox. Sure, their writing and voice acting suck, but no series comes close to the fantasy sandbox an elder scrolls game offers. The game is what you the player make out of it.

I've literally thrown out the old oblivion systems and made my own custom tailored RPG that suits me. No game can do that

wis3boi

no

First scrolls game i plan to buy for pc since redguard so here's hoping to the best of both worlds!

We hype the game because Bethesda allows the users to have this huge sandbox where we can make whatever we want to, change whatever we want to.

To alot of people, it is a bit like a "build it yourself" game. Where Bethesda provides the basic structure of the game, the frame for which can be built.

The TES games are fairly good games in thier own right, but when Modders get to play around like they do, it goes from "good" or "great" to "outright awesome"

Alot of the modders do it because they enjoy it, and Bethesda makes thier games ERALLY mod friendly.

Quite alot like Valve does with thier games.

Its also the main reason why alot of PC gamers shakes thier head when Console gamers talk TES, because to us they are missing something really good, and really special about the game, which can't be replicated.

You can like it or hate it for these reasons, there is no exact right or wrong, but I tell you this: I can not wait to see what mods people are going to make for this, what imagination will be shaped to be.

to be honest the other games were fine, some loud people say they werent but whatever. The mods are really nice, and in some cases it might be hard to go back vanilla... but thats part of the fun of the experience.

I just want to fly on dragons and have them breathe fire on my enemies. Make it happen modders.

It looks to be alot improved over Oblivion so I am looking forward to it. Oblivion was not that bad but for me it was my least favorite of all the Elderscrolls games.

I am looking forward to it but like every Elderscrolls game there will be bugs and some issues that the community will fix, luckily we have hte ability to use mods on PC.

Sure DX11 would be nice and much more but hey its better then nothing no? Game looks like its coming along very well.

These games will always be better with mods, its just the way it is in a open world rpg, there are bound to be a godo amount of issues as you can go anywhere do anything.

The game will be Good Enough. Oblivion was fine for the time it was released. Mods do make it better but the game was still fantastic without them. Skyrim will be great as well. But mods will probably enhance the experience. Does that stop the game from being great already? No. What it does do is add content to an already huge expansive world.

Do none of the PC gamers remember that Oblivion had three mods by Kivan (UOP, UOMP, and USIP mods) that fixed 10,000 bugs that were still in-game after the last Bethesda patch? Skyrim will need bug-fix mods as well, because Bethesda never fixes all of them.topsemag55

With a game of the size of Oblivion, I'm honestly surprised there weren't more bugs! Seriously, given modern dev cycles it's almost impossible to find everything. And most bugs weren't even that big, just placement issues and the like. Nothing game breaking and definately not big enough to delay the game for.

Skyrim appears to be WAY better than Oblivion, which was a solid, but overrated game. I never played any other TES besides Oblivion though.

I don't know, I thought vanilla Oblivion was pretty fun. Mods definitely improved it, though, but I had no trouble running it on a then-outdated Geforce 6600 GT :P

I wanted to like Morrowind, but I think I missed that boat, as I did not play it when it first came out and found myself not really enjoying it years later.

Skyrim will be a big improvement on the previous game, I bet, mods or no.

I thought Oblivion was such a great game, I didn't notice any issues.DevilMightCry

I didnt either until i tried to leave the sewers and the game crashed. lol

every pc game company should work as hard as CD Projekt did on the witcher 2. there were a few problems at launch, however they were not major and they were fixed quickly. they also have offered all dlc for free. although they said if they ever make a huge expansion it will cost money, which is perfectly understandable. if every pc game company worked their butts off like they did on the witcher 2 i garauntee you there would be a significant increase in pc game sales in general. even the torrent sites were filled with people encouraging everyone to buy the game. witcher 2 is one of the best $50 pc games i have ever purchased.

i am considering buying skyrim at launch, hopefully there will be some reviews before it comes out. i do remember elder scrolls oblivion being a horrible stuttering mess on the xbox 360, it is actually the only console game i ever returned to a store in my life becuase it was so bad. i also returned bioshock 2 for pc becuase it had an audio glitch that destroyed my game, got it on ps3 and it worked fine (with significantly worse graphics). just to be sure i am assuming the pc oblivion was smooth to play?

Let me explain this a bit. I'm not a big fan of Elder Scrolls Series but that doesn't influence my enquiry.

- For Morrowind lots of people said it's great with mods.

- For Oblivion, there were lots of complaints but then with mods it was considered one of the best RPGs.

- What I see now for Skyrim, is everyone hyping it to heaven and back... but the same phrase over and over "It will be great once the modders bring out the mods"

WHY do we accept this?

WHY should we accept a game that is flawed until mods come out for it?

Shouldn't the game be released FROM THE DEVS good enough to not need a complete mod overhaul to be great?

(I'm not bashing the game or anything, just curious about the way we are accepting it)

FelipeInside

After playing through Dark Souls, I have no real interest in Skyrim. I will, of course, try it. But I have no real hope for it.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

Let me explain this a bit. I'm not a big fan of Elder Scrolls Series but that doesn't influence my enquiry.

- For Morrowind lots of people said it's great with mods.

- For Oblivion, there were lots of complaints but then with mods it was considered one of the best RPGs.

- What I see now for Skyrim, is everyone hyping it to heaven and back... but the same phrase over and over "It will be great once the modders bring out the mods"

WHY do we accept this?

WHY should we accept a game that is flawed until mods come out for it?

Shouldn't the game be released FROM THE DEVS good enough to not need a complete mod overhaul to be great?

(I'm not bashing the game or anything, just curious about the way we are accepting it)

Johnny_Rock

After playing through Dark Souls, I have no real interest in Skyrim. I will, of course, try it. But I have no real hope for it.

I have yet to hear something Negative towards Dark Souls.

Wish it could be on PC....

Because mods add a sandbox layer to the product?

Mods arent there to -fix-; rather, they are there to provide options and additional content for us users to freely implement into the product that we bought.

Because mods add a sandbox layer to the product?

Mods arent there to -fix-; rather, they are there to provide options and additional content for us users to freely implement into the product that we bought.

illmatic87

Well, some mods do fix bugs and issues with the game...

If you actually played through Morrowind, you'd know that it is an excellent experience without mods. But you know, that's too hard for opinionated people nowadays.

If you actually played through Morrowind, you'd know that it is an excellent experience without mods. But you know, that's too hard for opinionated people nowadays.

Vesica_Prime

Because there are an awful lot of idiots who say anything on consoles is bad because they want to feel superior lol.

[QUOTE="illmatic87"]

Because mods add a sandbox layer to the product?

Mods arent there to -fix-; rather, they are there to provide options and additional content for us users to freely implement into the product that we bought.

FelipeInside

Well, some mods do fix bugs and issues with the game...

Why discredit what others--as well as other mods--are doing? or the games ability to do what we want to a product that we purchased? Modding has been a cornerstone for PC gaming and that alone is well worth being excited about--of course some will probably still like the game without mods if that's too daunting for them.

Mods are an -option- that's there to provide alternatives for mechanics and content that you 'subjectively' may not like. And "May not like" that's the case with every game, fortunately modding allows you to counter that to craft something that's more suitable for your enjoyment.

Oblivion and Morrowind were still great without mods, just not to everyone.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

[QUOTE="illmatic87"]

Because mods add a sandbox layer to the product?

Mods arent there to -fix-; rather, they are there to provide options and additional content for us users to freely implement into the product that we bought.

illmatic87

Well, some mods do fix bugs and issues with the game...

Why discredit what others--as well as other mods--are doing? or the games ability to do what we want to a product that we purchased? Modding has been a cornerstone for PC gaming and that alone is well worth being excited about--of course some will probably still like the game without mods if that's too daunting for them.

Mods are an -option- that's there to provide alternatives for mechanics and content that you 'subjectively' may not like. And "May not like" that's the case with every game, fortunately modding allows you to counter that to craft something that's more suitable for your enjoyment.

[QUOTE="illmatic87"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

Well, some mods do fix bugs and issues with the game...

FelipeInside

Why discredit what others--as well as other mods--are doing? or the games ability to do what we want to a product that we purchased? Modding has been a cornerstone for PC gaming and that alone is well worth being excited about--of course some will probably still like the game without mods if that's too daunting for them.

Mods are an -option- that's there to provide alternatives for mechanics and content that you 'subjectively' may not like. And "May not like" that's the case with every game, fortunately modding allows you to counter that to craft something that's more suitable for your enjoyment.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="illmatic87"]And your point to that is...? what? you dont like mod support?

Why discredit what others--as well as other mods--are doing? or the games ability to do what we want to a product that we purchased? Modding has been a cornerstone for PC gaming and that alone is well worth being excited about--of course some will probably still like the game without mods if that's too daunting for them.

Mods are an -option- that's there to provide alternatives for mechanics and content that you 'subjectively' may not like. And "May not like" that's the case with every game, fortunately modding allows you to counter that to craft something that's more suitable for your enjoyment.

wis3boi

Exactly... I played all through Oblivion and didn't encounter ANY bugs.... but I remember when it came out lots of people complained about them. (and there are countless youtube videos)

Hell, lots of people are already expecting lots of bugs from Skyrim...

I think one of the things that makes their games so popular are the mods. Their mod tools that come with their games are very good. You also know there will be a lot of people working on this game from beginners to professional teams. The game just ends up being huge with endless hours of play. No one out there will be able to complete all of it. It will make the game last for years just like the other Elder Scroll games.

Let me explain this a bit. I'm not a big fan of Elder Scrolls Series but that doesn't influence my enquiry.

- For Morrowind lots of people said it's great with mods.

- For Oblivion, there were lots of complaints but then with mods it was considered one of the best RPGs.

- What I see now for Skyrim, is everyone hyping it to heaven and back... but the same phrase over and over "It will be great once the modders bring out the mods"

WHY do we accept this?

WHY should we accept a game that is flawed until mods come out for it?

Shouldn't the game be released FROM THE DEVS good enough to not need a complete mod overhaul to be great?

(I'm not bashing the game or anything, just curious about the way we are accepting it)

FelipeInside

The way I see it is the dev build the basic game and provide a engine for the modders to work with.

Bethesda make a game the way they see it and are good enough to provide SDK so we can make it what we want.

I also feel that bethesda game are huge and they can't include every thing they would want and make it a "bug free" gaming experience.

I am not mad at bethesda at all at least they include mod tools unlike bf3.

I play the bethesda game once without mod and it's usually a good game but with mods it becomes so much better. But so does most of the game that are modable. Stalker:SoC was a great game without mod but when modders really started it became a gem.

I feel that the same thing will happen with Red Orchestra 2. Right now it's a good game(at least for me) but when modders start cranking maps and mod it will be much better.

You can't expect dev to make the perfect game all the time.

I feel shameful because I never actually modded Oblivion, it was too difficult for me. It was like learning another language, had to download and run 3 different mod programs, edit file dates, stack them in proper order, etc.... ugh. I'm relatively new to pc gaming but modding other games is really easy in comparison.

I actually prefer Oblivions colorful lush scenery, Skyrim looks all grey and gloomy from what I have seen.

Morrowind and Oblivion ar works of art, a masterpiece if you may even say so for their time. They did not get those high scores both from critics, reviewers and players becouse of mods but becouse the GAMES themselves are brilliant. The reason WHY we use mods and tools like that is becouse we simply want MORE. The story, sound, graphics everything is a work of art but why should we not want more when we can have ? Skyrim will be a yet another great game from Bethesda and when mods come after that I would definetly welcome them with open arms !

It's in the human nature to want more ... imagine if you're a kid and for X-mas your parrents take you out to choose a PC and you choose a computer for 1000$ but your dad says "Hey son, I can buy you that one for 1300$ if you want, it's no problem." - wouldn't you say "YES, THANK YOU!" ?

P.S. Forgive me for the given PC example, but on account that almost everyone here in this sub-forum is a PC gamer I though this one would be the best choice.

The storys are works of art ? LOL. Can i have some of what your smoking please ?

Boring LARPing/hiking simulators.