I don't understand why us PC Gamers accept Skyrim...

I dont accept skyrim at all, and I refuse to buy it until at least the GOTY edition comes out. It looks terrible all around with the Ipad inspired UI, infinite dragons, bland environments, inevitable bugfest and shoddy combat (from the looks of it).

Besides I got much better looking fantasy action adventure games to play, like Skyward Sword (not talking about graphics). Yeah, I dont really consider The Elder Scrolls games RPGs anymore.

they are one of the ONLY devs out there that let gamers create mods in such quantity, and the one of the few game series with an SDK so easy to use and make your own mods big or small. They are also masters of the sandbox. Sure, their writing and voice acting suck, but no series comes close to the fantasy sandbox an elder scrolls game offers. The game is what you the player make out of it.

I've literally thrown out the old oblivion systems and made my own custom tailored RPG that suits me. No game can do that

wis3boi

1. Wrong there are other devs who also allow great moddability of their games.
2. The Elder Scrolls games arent sandboxes. If they were sandboxes they would be an embarrassment on the genre with how poor the environment interaction is. TES are however open world games.
3. Not really, though Skyrim looks to be a huge step towards this. But I dont think what we have seen so far is really enough. It will most likely be like the jobs in Fable.

The storys are works of art ? LOL. Can i have some of what your smoking please ?

Boring LARPing/hiking simulators.

bussinrounds

I'm sorry but the point of view which you look the games from is beyond my understanding. Just becouse you find it boooooring or something doesn't mean everyone is like you ... and by work of art or whatever I do not mean STORY ONLY I mean the game as OVERALL - the gameplay expirience you get while playing is satisfying and more than satisfying when you add some mods to take your expirience on the next level ...

In my case, I accept this because I understand that devs can't, want or have the time to implement all the functions that mods can do for the user. That's the thing, everybody do not want the same mods I do and why should they be forced to now when there is a choice?

I don't understand the hype behind Skyrim to begin with. I really don't. It looks like "just another open world RPG" to me and doesn't appear to bring much new to the table.

I don't understand the hype behind Skyrim to begin with. I really don't. It looks like "just another open world RPG" to me and doesn't appear to bring much new to the table.

THA-TODD-BEAST

[QUOTE="THA-TODD-BEAST"]

I don't understand the hype behind Skyrim to begin with. I really don't. It looks like "just another open world RPG" to me and doesn't appear to bring much new to the table.

shakmaster13

[QUOTE="THA-TODD-BEAST"]

I don't understand the hype behind Skyrim to begin with. I really don't. It looks like "just another open world RPG" to me and doesn't appear to bring much new to the table.

shakmaster13

I dont think the lack of Open World RPGs have much to do with console RAM limitations as much as it has to do with the nature of these games. I am pretty sure making a great open world RPG is a lot more expensive and harder to make than a lot of other games (balancing, content, ect). Besides, how are you going to ape Hollywood if you are going to grant the player a lot freedom not only in where they go but also in how they play?

I agree with TC. I was wondering this too, and its the same with other bethesda games. They come out and are the most buggy games around until patches fix some bits. I don't understand why people are hyping Skyrim so much. It should only be talked about without modders for now and not that line "it will be great once modders get hold of it"

I played both Morriwind and Oblivion on the Xbox and 360 respectively when they launched and thought they were great. When I got my self a gaming rig I bought them both on steam and modded them. The mods make themeven better.

I didn't think Morrowind or Oblivion were flawed at launch. PC gamers just have a habit of wanting all of their games to play the same and are usually not open to really fresh ideas, especially in RPGs.

I think Skyrim vanilla will be fantastic.

first off, i do think your opinion is correct, the game isnt top notch until the mods, but let me say this...i played oblivion on console, it was alright (8/10 id say) but that doesnt mean that its horrible, the story in the games are great, the action is one-of-a-kind...just a great series with or without mods

Let me explain this a bit. I'm not a big fan of Elder Scrolls Series but that doesn't influence my enquiry.

- For Morrowind lots of people said it's great with mods.

- For Oblivion, there were lots of complaints but then with mods it was considered one of the best RPGs.

- What I see now for Skyrim, is everyone hyping it to heaven and back... but the same phrase over and over "It will be great once the modders bring out the mods"

WHY do we accept this?

WHY should we accept a game that is flawed until mods come out for it?

Shouldn't the game be released FROM THE DEVS good enough to not need a complete mod overhaul to be great?

(I'm not bashing the game or anything, just curious about the way we are accepting it)

FelipeInside

I'm expecting Skryim to be good out of the box. I'm still on the fence to buy it because of income though. The only thing that I expect to completely suck is the writing which is just a Bethesda thing.

People say it isn't going to be great until mods because that is the truth. The mods can turn the game into something completely different and improve on every single weak area. The game isn't flawed but this is something you expect from a Bethesda game given the modding community.

I didn't think Morrowind or Oblivion were flawed at launch. PC gamers just have a habit of wanting all of their games to play the same and are usually not open to really fresh ideas, especially in RPGs.

I think Skyrim vanilla will be fantastic.

Wasdie

Fresh ideas? You mean like a leveled randomly generated environment in items where the first dungeon you came across was like every other one for Oblivion? You mean like the fact that choosing skills were meaningless because you could max all of them out EASILLY in Oblivion? There were no perks in their later games that actually created quite a difference, in the end every one was a theif warrior mage.. You mean like the fact you can beat 99% of the game at level 2 in Oblivion? You mean like the fact there were not consquences in the game outside breaking the law, meaning you could be the head of the evil ass asssassins guild while being the head of the good fighters guild? You mean the overly dry combat system of suckage of random slashing the majority of the time? I didn't like Oblivion not because it was different, but because I couldn't call it a RPG.. Alot of people like to rag on Mass Effect 2 for instance for supposedly not being a rpg, though I will agree they stripped down numerous parts.. But in the end classes at least meant something, you couldn't do everything and each one played a bit differently.. There were actual consquences in speech and real choice that barred you from another path due to your choice.. Oblivion is a weak action adventure game with psuedo rpg elements that don't mean anything.. There really is not dialogue choices, there is no stat based character development, the majority of things are randomized generic crap with a handful of set pieces.. I want the game to actually be a rpg in some respects.. Oblivion literally had nothing to go with it, it had a weak story, no dialogue or decision making and no character development system what so ever.. You have to at least have ONE of those things for me to call it a rpg.. Oh lets not forget that if you leveld too fast in that stupid ass game you had a habit of gimping your self..

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

I didn't think Morrowind or Oblivion were flawed at launch. PC gamers just have a habit of wanting all of their games to play the same and are usually not open to really fresh ideas, especially in RPGs.

I think Skyrim vanilla will be fantastic.

sSubZerOo

Fresh ideas? You mean like a leveled randomly generated environment in items where the first dungeon you came across was like every other one for Oblivion? You mean like the fact that choosing skills were meaningless because you could max all of them out EASILLY in Oblivion? There were no perks in their later games that actually created quite a difference, in the end every one was a theif warrior mage.. You mean like the fact you can beat 99% of the game at level 2 in Oblivion? You mean like the fact there were not consquences in the game outside breaking the law, meaning you could be the head of the evil ass asssassins guild while being the head of the good fighters guild? You mean the overly dry combat system of suckage of random slashing the majority of the time? I didn't like Oblivion not because it was different, but because I couldn't call it a RPG.. Alot of people like to rag on Mass Effect 2 for instance for supposedly not being a rpg, though I will agree they stripped down numerous parts.. But in the end classes at least meant something, you couldn't do everything and each one played a bit differently.. There were actual consquences in speech and real choice that barred you from another path due to your choice.. Oblivion is a weak action adventure game with psuedo rpg elements that don't mean anything.. There really is not dialogue choices, there is no stat based character development, the majority of things are randomized generic crap with a handful of set pieces.. I want the game to actually be a rpg in some respects.. Oblivion literally had nothing to go with it, it had a weak story, no dialogue or decision making and no character development system what so ever.. You have to at least have ONE of those things for me to call it a rpg.. Oh lets not forget that if you leveld too fast in that stupid ass game you had a habit of gimping your self..

I may be the only person in the world to say this, but I really, really enjoyed Oblivion without mods. And I really expect the same to happen with Skyrim.

It does seem strange to anticipate a game based on the promise of mods. That's not a good sign for the game. If a game can't stand on its own it shouldn't be considered a good game. This is just to those who keep beringing up that mods will make the game good. Please don't quote me and say "I love the games without mods!" because what I said was clearly not for you.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

I didn't think Morrowind or Oblivion were flawed at launch. PC gamers just have a habit of wanting all of their games to play the same and are usually not open to really fresh ideas, especially in RPGs.

I think Skyrim vanilla will be fantastic.

shakmaster13

Fresh ideas? You mean like a leveled randomly generated environment in items where the first dungeon you came across was like every other one for Oblivion? You mean like the fact that choosing skills were meaningless because you could max all of them out EASILLY in Oblivion? There were no perks in their later games that actually created quite a difference, in the end every one was a theif warrior mage.. You mean like the fact you can beat 99% of the game at level 2 in Oblivion? You mean like the fact there were not consquences in the game outside breaking the law, meaning you could be the head of the evil ass asssassins guild while being the head of the good fighters guild? You mean the overly dry combat system of suckage of random slashing the majority of the time? I didn't like Oblivion not because it was different, but because I couldn't call it a RPG.. Alot of people like to rag on Mass Effect 2 for instance for supposedly not being a rpg, though I will agree they stripped down numerous parts.. But in the end classes at least meant something, you couldn't do everything and each one played a bit differently.. There were actual consquences in speech and real choice that barred you from another path due to your choice.. Oblivion is a weak action adventure game with psuedo rpg elements that don't mean anything.. There really is not dialogue choices, there is no stat based character development, the majority of things are randomized generic crap with a handful of set pieces.. I want the game to actually be a rpg in some respects.. Oblivion literally had nothing to go with it, it had a weak story, no dialogue or decision making and no character development system what so ever.. You have to at least have ONE of those things for me to call it a rpg.. Oh lets not forget that if you leveld too fast in that stupid ass game you had a habit of gimping your self..

What Oblivion does better? You mean being mediocre and not really a RPG? Or wide open content? Because if thats the case New Vegas for instance for all its faults (mainly technical) is a superior game to something like Oblivion in just about every area in that I can actually CALL it a rpg.. In which there are set environments, your skills actually mean something when coupled with PERKS, there are actual dialogue choices and decision making that could effect the game tremendously.

What about the Gothic games ? I heard they were better than Oblivious.

Bugs weren't the problem with Oblivion. The game was too dumbed down, and super bland. I mean, a random dungeon in Morrowind had more excitement and imagination than the whole of Oblivion. The UI sucked hard too, bugs were troublesome, but not the reason I didn't like it.GeneralShowzer

Lets not forget that SKILL choices, and core character development mechanics actually existed in Morrowind.. Unlike Oblivion which gave you access to all the skills in which you could all max them out, easily I might add.

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]Bugs weren't the problem with Oblivion. The game was too dumbed down, and super bland. I mean, a random dungeon in Morrowind had more excitement and imagination than the whole of Oblivion. The UI sucked hard too, bugs were troublesome, but not the reason I didn't like it.sSubZerOo

Lets not forget that SKILL choices, and core character development mechanics actually existed in Morrowind.. Unlike Oblivion which gave you access to all the skills in which you could all max them out, easily I might add.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

I didn't think Morrowind or Oblivion were flawed at launch. PC gamers just have a habit of wanting all of their games to play the same and are usually not open to really fresh ideas, especially in RPGs.

I think Skyrim vanilla will be fantastic.

shakmaster13

Fresh ideas? You mean like a leveled randomly generated environment in items where the first dungeon you came across was like every other one for Oblivion? You mean like the fact that choosing skills were meaningless because you could max all of them out EASILLY in Oblivion? There were no perks in their later games that actually created quite a difference, in the end every one was a theif warrior mage.. You mean like the fact you can beat 99% of the game at level 2 in Oblivion? You mean like the fact there were not consquences in the game outside breaking the law, meaning you could be the head of the evil ass asssassins guild while being the head of the good fighters guild? You mean the overly dry combat system of suckage of random slashing the majority of the time? I didn't like Oblivion not because it was different, but because I couldn't call it a RPG.. Alot of people like to rag on Mass Effect 2 for instance for supposedly not being a rpg, though I will agree they stripped down numerous parts.. But in the end classes at least meant something, you couldn't do everything and each one played a bit differently.. There were actual consquences in speech and real choice that barred you from another path due to your choice.. Oblivion is a weak action adventure game with psuedo rpg elements that don't mean anything.. There really is not dialogue choices, there is no stat based character development, the majority of things are randomized generic crap with a handful of set pieces.. I want the game to actually be a rpg in some respects.. Oblivion literally had nothing to go with it, it had a weak story, no dialogue or decision making and no character development system what so ever.. You have to at least have ONE of those things for me to call it a rpg.. Oh lets not forget that if you leveld too fast in that stupid ass game you had a habit of gimping your self..

I own every Elderscrolls game and I have enjoyed em all, but imo Gothic3 was a better open world game then oblivion

[QUOTE="shakmaster13"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Fresh ideas? You mean like a leveled randomly generated environment in items where the first dungeon you came across was like every other one for Oblivion? You mean like the fact that choosing skills were meaningless because you could max all of them out EASILLY in Oblivion? There were no perks in their later games that actually created quite a difference, in the end every one was a theif warrior mage.. You mean like the fact you can beat 99% of the game at level 2 in Oblivion? You mean like the fact there were not consquences in the game outside breaking the law, meaning you could be the head of the evil ass asssassins guild while being the head of the good fighters guild? You mean the overly dry combat system of suckage of random slashing the majority of the time? I didn't like Oblivion not because it was different, but because I couldn't call it a RPG.. Alot of people like to rag on Mass Effect 2 for instance for supposedly not being a rpg, though I will agree they stripped down numerous parts.. But in the end classes at least meant something, you couldn't do everything and each one played a bit differently.. There were actual consquences in speech and real choice that barred you from another path due to your choice.. Oblivion is a weak action adventure game with psuedo rpg elements that don't mean anything.. There really is not dialogue choices, there is no stat based character development, the majority of things are randomized generic crap with a handful of set pieces.. I want the game to actually be a rpg in some respects.. Oblivion literally had nothing to go with it, it had a weak story, no dialogue or decision making and no character development system what so ever.. You have to at least have ONE of those things for me to call it a rpg.. Oh lets not forget that if you leveld too fast in that stupid ass game you had a habit of gimping your self..

kozzy1234

I own every Elderscrolls game and I have enjoyed em all, but imo Gothic3 was a better open world game then oblivion

[QUOTE="kozzy1234"]

[QUOTE="shakmaster13"] Name a game that does what Oblivion does better.bussinrounds

I own every Elderscrolls game and I have enjoyed em all, but imo Gothic3 was a better open world game then oblivion

Yup, Gothic2 is definatly the best in the series, one of my fav. Id say Morrowind and Gothic2 are two of my fav open world rpgs ever :)

What about the Gothic games ? I heard they were better than Oblivious.

bussinrounds

I only played Gothic 3 which is a solid game but it isn't nearly as fun as Oblivion.

So much fail.......

Oblivion was an incredible game. (http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/the-elder-scrolls-iv-oblivion)

That is FACT. Your opinions do not change this FACT. mmmmmmmmmmmkay?Mods just made it EVEN BETTER.

As for Skyrim, I'm really liking what I'm seeing.

So much fail.......

Oblivion was an incredible game. (http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/the-elder-scrolls-iv-oblivion)

That is FACT. Your opinions do not change this FACT. mmmmmmmmmmmkay?Mods just made it EVEN BETTER.

As for Skyrim, I'm really liking what I'm seeing.

Cruxis27

Thats the thing about a game like Oblivion, it seems really good at first and the more you play and learn everything about it, the worse and worse it gets.

So much fail.......

Oblivion was an incredible game. (http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/the-elder-scrolls-iv-oblivion)

That is FACT. Your opinions do not change this FACT. mmmmmmmmmmmkay?Mods just made it EVEN BETTER.

As for Skyrim, I'm really liking what I'm seeing.

Cruxis27

Last time I checked all of those reviews are what some journalist THINKS of the game. So scores are not a fact.

The last Elder Scrolls game they developed for PC gamers was morrowind..after that they shifted towards the console fanbase and never looked back. These days We should be greatful they are even giving mod support for these games.lawlessx

So much fail.......

Oblivion was an incredible game. (http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/the-elder-scrolls-iv-oblivion)

That is FACT. Your opinions do not change this FACT. mmmmmmmmmmmkay?Mods just made it EVEN BETTER.

As for Skyrim, I'm really liking what I'm seeing.

Cruxis27

.. Uh no every body has their own opinions on their own games, and it is my opinion that it was one of the most overrated games I have ever play.. Your entitled to your own opinions by all mean, I may disagree with it, but I am not going to say your wrong or other such things.

I absolutely hated oblivion, but they earned my trust back wtih fallout 3. along with from software, they are the best RPG makers out there.

Why am I buying it? for its amount of content, it's one of the very few RPG give players real freedom and choices unlike TW2 and ME2. a beautiful world setting that truely feels alive and can be interacted with, character creation, clever combat and lvling system. How can you not interested? they are the last hope for PC's RPG, I know I don't want to deal with weak sauce such as TW3's, ME3 and DA3

I absolutely hated oblivion, but they earned my trust back wtih fallout 3. along with from software, they are the best RPG makers out there.

Why am I buying it? for its amount of content, it's one of the very few RPG give players real freedom and choices unlike TW2 and ME2. a beautiful world setting that truely feels alive and can be interacted with, character creation, clever combat and lvling system. How can you not interested? they are the last hope for PC's RPG, I know I don't want to deal with weak sauce such as TW3's, ME3 and DA3

pcps360

I thought both Morrowind and Oblivion were great without mods. Mods just made them better. I'm probably in the minority though.

every pc game company should work as hard as CD Projekt did on the witcher 2. there were a few problems at launch, however they were not major and they were fixed quickly. they also have offered all dlc for free. although they said if they ever make a huge expansion it will cost money, which is perfectly understandable. if every pc game company worked their butts off like they did on the witcher 2 i garauntee you there would be a significant increase in pc game sales in general. even the torrent sites were filled with people encouraging everyone to buy the game. witcher 2 is one of the best $50 pc games i have ever purchased.

merigoldsass

[QUOTE="merigoldsass"]

every pc game company should work as hard as CD Projekt did on the witcher 2. there were a few problems at launch, however they were not major and they were fixed quickly. they also have offered all dlc for free. although they said if they ever make a huge expansion it will cost money, which is perfectly understandable. if every pc game company worked their butts off like they did on the witcher 2 i garauntee you there would be a significant increase in pc game sales in general. even the torrent sites were filled with people encouraging everyone to buy the game. witcher 2 is one of the best $50 pc games i have ever purchased.

IxX3xil3d0n3XxI

Many people say oblivion had some issues. I played it too and what i deduced at the end of the day was that i became a die-hard fan for the epic RPG series.

Why worry about mods, they destroy the originality of the game and turn it into a quite different state.

Let me explain this a bit. I'm not a big fan of Elder Scrolls Series but that doesn't influence my enquiry.

- For Morrowind lots of people said it's great with mods.

- For Oblivion, there were lots of complaints but then with mods it was considered one of the best RPGs.

- What I see now for Skyrim, is everyone hyping it to heaven and back... but the same phrase over and over "It will be great once the modders bring out the mods"

WHY do we accept this?

WHY should we accept a game that is flawed until mods come out for it?

Shouldn't the game be released FROM THE DEVS good enough to not need a complete mod overhaul to be great?

(I'm not bashing the game or anything, just curious about the way we are accepting it)

FelipeInside

Just because a game doesn't meet one's standards, it's faulty? Some people liked Oblivion as it was, others didn't until mods came out. Some like Morrowind as it was, others more so when mods came out.

Just because someone doesn't view a game good until they or someone else mods it, doesn't mean the game is bad or unfinished. I guess it just all depends on how you look at things. I'd much rather pass judgement on personal experience instead of just assuming without experiencing.