If GTA 4 Looked Like This.....

[QUOTE="sj420"]

no one forced anyone to buy two copies of the same game - you obviously liked it enough to do so, why are you now mad at rockstar for your choices? hell, i want to get paid twice for something i do! don't you?

they just want to make sure that everyone who considered playing their game will eventually buy the game, in this case the pc hold-outs. when the pc version is released a year later (and they've minimized the losses through intelligent business planning), they already made most of their money anyways, and it's more of a bonus at that point.

TryDaBeardON

i think you're missing the point.

i'm only saying that devs/publisher are looking out for number one, and this is in fact just one of the ways to minimize piracy, not prevent it.  they know full well their games will be pirated - they're only trying to lessen the damage.  you can't blame them for a damn thing, since they are merely trying to protect their interests just as any one of us would.  i could care less if their game gets pirated or not - this isn't about the moral issue - i'm only posting this to explain why they do what they do.

do i think rockstar is smarter than other devs?  of course not.  however, the gta franchise is a powerhouse.  they don't have to wonder if they're going to sell units like other devs, who need to milk every second of exposure when a game is released just to sell every possible manufactured copy on every platform.  fully knowing their next game is going to be #1, they want to rake in every dime.  is it greedy?  yes.  is it fair?  yes.  can they do whatever they want with their game releases?  YES.  they made it to sell it and there IS a strategy involved.

and no matter what you say, you bought the game for a second time because you enjoyed it.  you would not have spent your money on garbage for a second time.  what about the ps2 version was crappy?  you thought your ps2 gta experience was crappy, so you bought the pc version again for the same crappy experience?  the only main difference was higher resolution and controls.

i'll gladly buy two of something that you made, if i considered it to be worth my money.

I would really like to see a GTA game in a school setting. Colonel_Cool

I would really like to see a GTA game in a school setting. Colonel_Cool

Thats pretty much Bully (PS2).

[QUOTE="ElectricNZ"][QUOTE="sj420"][QUOTE="Herrick"]

[QUOTE="TryDaBeardON"]

They DID have a deal with Sony. That's exactly the point. There's no deal anymore, but they still won't release the PC version at the same time.
sj420

Why not?

to counter the initial wave of piracy. this alleviates some of the losses.

just as much as pc... you don't actually believe that do you? piracy is rampant everywhere, but pc games vs console games is no contest.

like i said, it does alleviate some of the initial (potential) losses and can be considered a countermeasure for piracy when a title is just released, especially for games with a lack of online multiplayer (key checking). obviously, as a developer/publisher, you want to minimize your potential losses and maximize potential sales. also consider that a franchise like gta has the power to sell consoles due to its immense popularity.

yes, the pc-only pirate will most likely wait until the game is released on pc and wouldn't have purchased it anyway. however, when a game of this caliber comes out (mgs and halo franchises come to mind) and everybody and their mothers are playing it and raving about it, some of the pc-only pirates will consider purchasing the game and console - that potential sale is enough for some devs to minimize their losses and convert some pirates. so why not delay the pc version (the easiest to pirate) just to increase their chances of selling one more copy?

releasing a pc version at the same time or even a month or two after the console release wouldn't change anything, but 9-12 months later effectively closes the door on pc pirates. they will look for other ways to play the game, possibly through a purchase. don't forget that a console is really measure to fight piracy to begin with.

a pc-only gamer (imo) is becoming more and more rare anyways. who in here actually owns JUST a pc and not even one console? when your friends are on the couch playing gta4, how long will you hold out on your $60? gamers want to play good games, no matter what platform it's on, and usually in a timely manner.

the whole point is to minimize piracy, cuz eliminating it is impossible.

i could have touched on other aspects, but i know most people wouldn't read a long ass post. sorry for getting off-topic.

I am a PC only gamer and will never buy a console, they are just becoming mroe and more like PCS, in fact they are just computers, just not as advanced.ElectricNZ

now you're just sounding like a pc fanboy.  obviously consoles are computers designed only for the purpose of playing games.  what does that have to do with anything?  i understand that you get your kicks out of tinkering with your pc for performance like many of us, but that has absolutely nothing to do with you enjoying great games on multiple platforms.

"will never buy a console"  why would you want to limit yourself like that and rule out any possibility that you just might like some game on a console?  whether you want to admit it or not, i'm sure you've considered a console purchase before and will do so at some time in the future.  i'll track you down in your deathbed and ask if you purchased a console in your lifetime.  don't be a hypocrite.  you know both have their +s and -s.

i think you're missing the point.

i'm only saying that devs/publisher are looking out for number one, and this is in fact just one of the ways to minimize piracy, not prevent it. they know full well their games will be pirated - they're only trying to lessen the damage. you can't blame them for a damn thing, since they are merely trying to protect their interests just as any one of us would. i could care less if their game gets pirated or not - this isn't about the moral issue - i'm only posting this to explain why they do what they do.

do i think rockstar is smarter than other devs? of course not. however, the gta franchise is a powerhouse. they don't have to wonder if they're going to sell units like other devs, who need to milk every second of exposure when a game is released just to sell every possible manufactured copy on every platform. fully knowing their next game is going to be #1, they want to rake in every dime. is it greedy? yes. is it fair? yes. can they do whatever they want with their game releases? YES. they made it to sell it and there IS a strategy involved.

and no matter what you say, you bought the game for a second time because you enjoyed it. you would not have spent your money on garbage for a second time. what about the ps2 version was crappy? you thought your ps2 gta experience was crappy, so you bought the pc version again for the same crappy experience? the only main difference was higher resolution and controls.

i'll gladly buy two of something that you made, if i considered it to be worth my money.

sj420

I, on the other hand, think YOU are missing the point. The point is that in MY opinion the  estimated piracy loss figures from releasing the PC version at the same time with consoles is not going to outweigh the benefit of getting extra immediate income from people who DO NOT OWN CONSOLES. The key word here is immediate. A hundred dollars now is almost always better than a hundred dollars a year from now, don't you agree? Piracy is nothing new. Every company wants to minimize losses from it. I'm not missing any points. I just don't think it factors enough to affect this particular decision. It kind of seems rational to think so, and I know you believe it to be the reason, but... I'm not buying it.

Put it this way. Your thousand bucks is in the bank, but to enter you need to pay a guard a 20. You hear that if you wait 2 years, the guard will MAYBE start charging 10 bucks. Now, it so happens that you CAN"T use the money till you have it in your hand. Would you wait and MAYBE pay less or would you go and take immediately?
TryDaBeardON

do you apply the same exact strategy to every variable situation?  a hundred dollars now would maybe benefit a low-profile developer, but we're talking about gta4 and rockstar.  thee most anticipated game of 07.  we're talking about guaranteed sales and affecting a portion of the potential buyers - not changing the world or stopping piracy completely.

when the game is released, people who don't own next-gen consoles:

1. are going to wait for the pc version anyways (legit or pirated)

2. won't be able to obtain a pirated copy during its initial wave

3. may even purchase a console and copy of gta4

limited piracy, and even a possible increase in sales.  console piracy is nowhere near as widespread.

if it were released on pc (again, easiest to pirate) at the same time:

1. _portion_ of pc-only gamers will obtain a pirated copy (affecting sales)

2. _portion_ of both pc AND console owners will obtain a pirated pc copy (affecting sales)

after all, it's the best version, right?

3. console gamers will buy the console version anyway

this game is expected to move millions and millions of units...  and you don't think this figures into the decision?  it's simply playing the statistics.  even if the portion of pirates affected only 5% of the sales, that's still a lot of money.

you only talk about this issue from the standpoint of a lesser-known developer.  a small developer really has the most to lose with piracy issues, and they simply cannot afford to let their 15 min of marketing exposure pass and release the pc version 9 months later when no one cares.  so in this case, the benefits of simultaneous release will probably outweigh the negatives.  gta franchise on the other hand, commands sales and has the freedom to do whatever they want, because people continue to care even if it's released one year later.

i'm not even going to touch on your bank & guard analogy...

i really do apologize for jackin this thread though.

[QUOTE="sj420"][QUOTE="Herrick"]

[QUOTE="TryDaBeardON"]

They DID have a deal with Sony. That's exactly the point. There's no deal anymore, but they still won't release the PC version at the same time.
TryDaBeardON

Why not?

to counter the initial wave of piracy. this alleviates some of the losses.

just because you where slow enough to pay for a game twice does not mean rockstar is out to get double the money.

[QUOTE="sj420"][QUOTE="Herrick"]

[QUOTE="TryDaBeardON"]

They DID have a deal with Sony. That's exactly the point. There's no deal anymore, but they still won't release the PC version at the same time.
ElectricNZ

Why not?

to counter the initial wave of piracy. this alleviates some of the losses.

i hope the next GTA isnt in americaArtosa

I hope its in Czechoslovakia...

EDIT: Sorry. This is TRYDABEARDON writing from nephew's account.

Do you apply the same exact strategy to every variable situation?  a hundred dollars now would maybe benefit a low-profile developer, but we're talking about gta4 and rockstar.  thee most anticipated game of 07.  we're talking about guaranteed sales and affecting a portion of the potential buyers - not changing the world or stopping piracy completely.

when the game is released, people who don't own next-gen consoles:

1. are going to wait for the pc version anyways (legit or pirated)

2. won't be able to obtain a pirated copy during its initial wave

3. may even purchase a console and copy of gta4

limited piracy, and even a possible increase in sales.  console piracy is nowhere near as widespread.

if it were released on pc (again, easiest to pirate) at the same time:

1. _portion_ of pc-only gamers will obtain a pirated copy (affecting sales)

2. _portion_ of both pc AND console owners will obtain a pirated pc copy (affecting sales)

after all, it's the best version, right?

3. console gamers will buy the console version anyway

this game is expected to move millions and millions of units...  and you don't think this figures into the decision?  it's simply playing the statistics.  even if the portion of pirates affected only 5% of the sales, that's still a lot of money.

you only talk about this issue from the standpoint of a lesser-known developer.  a small developer really has the most to lose with piracy issues, and they simply cannot afford to let their 15 min of marketing exposure pass and release the pc version 9 months later when no one cares.  so in this case, the benefits of simultaneous release will probably outweigh the negatives.  gta franchise on the other hand, commands sales and has the freedom to do whatever they want, because people continue to care even if it's released one year later.

i'm not even going to touch on your bank & guard analogy...

i really do apologize for jackin this thread though.

sj420

You should have touched on my bank/guard analogy. It has a special place in my heart. Your plan is solid, aside from (again) the fact that no one knows how the piracy will affect sales at any given time. No one knows, okay? So then it all comes down again to:

-sell X number of copies on PC right now and risk Y number of copies to be distributed through piracy.

OR

-sell X number of copies, excluding paying, non-pirate PC buyers, then sell Z number of PC copies 2 years later with the threat of piracy by then MAYBE less than it would be at simultaneous release.

Moreover, as someone pointed out, few people are as stupid as I to pay twice for the same game. Then your scenario of PC users settling for console copies due to their unwillingness to wait will bring nothing BUT loss, because you will still release the game on PC (read:expend resourses associated with such production), but since a lot of PC users will have already played the game on a console of choice, they will NOT be buying the PC version when it comes out. Will that loss be less than loss from hypothetic pirate threat?

To quote Stanislavsky: "I don't believe it! I don't believe it!"

Just because you where slow enough to pay for a game twice does not mean rockstar is out to get double the money.

fm_coyote

TRYDABEARDON writing from nephew's account:

True, it might not mean that. I realize that Rockstar might really be a bunch of good honest guys. I'm just looking for answers here, and the one real answer I'm getting is not sitting well with me.

Hahaha....Those pictures are from Saints Row....znoop2006

that is TOTALLY Saints Row!!

[QUOTE="znoop2006"]Hahaha....Those pictures are from Saints Row....FiddleStick

that is TOTALLY Saints Row!!

Damn, Saints Row looks pretty sweet.

[QUOTE="FiddleStick"]

[QUOTE="znoop2006"]Hahaha....Those pictures are from Saints Row....mrbojangles25

that is TOTALLY Saints Row!!

Damn, Saints Row looks pretty sweet.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="FiddleStick"]

[QUOTE="znoop2006"]Hahaha....Those pictures are from Saints Row....smerlus

that is TOTALLY Saints Row!!

Damn, Saints Row looks pretty sweet.

...but its console only, right?

Figures....

a pc-only gamer (imo) is becoming more and more rare anyways.  who in here actually owns JUST a pc and not even one console?  when your friends are on the couch playing gta4, how long will you hold out on your $60?  gamers want to play good games, no matter what platform it's on, and usually in a timely manner.

sj420

I don't own any consoles, aside from a 13 year old Sega Genesis. As for playing with friends on the couch, all my friends are idiots who can't play anything besides NFS and FIFA (I live in latin america, so if you live in the U.S., subsitute FIFA fanboy for Madden fanboy, and that's of my typical friend), so I won't have to deal with that temptation, and even if I saw them playing GTA IV, I'm quite patient when it comes to playing games, so I don't mind waiting 6 months, a year or even more to play a hyped game, especially if it'll spare me the need of buying an actual console.

I'll say this though, if forever reason Rockstar didn't release GTA IV on the PC (highly unlikely), I would buy a 360 (not a PS3) for it, even if it was only for that game and maybe 2 or 3 more, since there are very few 360 exclusives that truly interest me. It's the same reason why I'm considering buying a PSP for Liberty City Stories and Vice City Stories. So there's some truth to your last sentence indeed.

[QUOTE="smerlus"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"][QUOTE="FiddleStick"]

[QUOTE="znoop2006"]Hahaha....Those pictures are from Saints Row....mrbojangles25

that is TOTALLY Saints Row!!

Damn, Saints Row looks pretty sweet.

...but its console only, right?

Figures....

[QUOTE="fm_coyote"]

Just because you where slow enough to pay for a game twice does not mean rockstar is out to get double the money.

BC2007

TRYDABEARDON writing from nephew's account:

True, it might not mean that. I realize that Rockstar might really be a bunch of good honest guys. I'm just looking for answers here, and the one real answer I'm getting is not sitting well with me.

I understand, but really, piracy is HUGE with pc games, and i bet it is a good way to offset losses, really, its extremely easy to burn a game and get a fixed exe off the net, while on a console, you'd have to bu a mod chip, get it installed etc.. it is harder,  im not saying its THE reason, but its a damn good one none the less.