Is Bioshock overrated?

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

How does one even quantify "over-rated-ness"? Never played Bioshock (other then the demo), so I don't even have my hat in the ring...but curious as to how anybody can say whether something is "overrated" or not.

Seems like saying something is "overrated" is some new fad or something...because I have seen a "X is overrated" for just about every single popular game that has been released...

fatshodan

You rated Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles a 2.8, yeah? GameSpot rated it an 8. That is you stating through the awesome power of numbers that you think GameSpot has ovverrated the game. Then imagine if every site and publication gave it 8+. Then imagine if it sold over three million units and won numerous game of the year awards, and forums were full of praise for the magnificent game that is Crystal Chronicles.

Describing something as being overrated is taking popular opinion and your opinion and reconciling the two. I wouldn't call that a fad, myself, but I agree that modern games are being more harshly criticised by certain groups - not that I necessarily see that as a bad thing. Someone has to do it, because the critics sure as hell aren't.

BioShock is to me as Crystal Chronicles is to you (well, not quite, bit you get the picture) and BioShock is pretty much the second or third highest rated PC game of all ever, and it absolutely does not deserve it at all.

All Your opinion

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

How does one even quantify "over-rated-ness"? Never played Bioshock (other then the demo), so I don't even have my hat in the ring...but curious as to how anybody can say whether something is "overrated" or not.

Seems like saying something is "overrated" is some new fad or something...because I have seen a "X is overrated" for just about every single popular game that has been released...

fatshodan

You rated Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles a 2.8, yeah? GameSpot rated it an 8. That is you stating through the awesome power of numbers that you think GameSpot has ovverrated the game. Then imagine if every site and publication gave it 8+. Then imagine if it sold over three million units and won numerous game of the year awards, and forums were full of praise for the magnificent game that is Crystal Chronicles.

Describing something as being overrated is taking popular opinion and your opinion and reconciling the two. I wouldn't call that a fad, myself, but I agree that modern games are being more harshly criticised by certain groups - not that I necessarily see that as a bad thing. Someone has to do it, because the critics sure as hell aren't.

BioShock is to me as Crystal Chronicles is to you (well, not quite, bit you get the picture) and BioShock is pretty much the second or third highest rated PC game of all ever, and it absolutely does not deserve it at all.

I didn't say Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles was overrated, I don't like the game. In fact, I hated it. However, I don't think it's "overrated" as it's obviously marketed to a different kind of player and wasn't what I expected. I assume to whatever player market it was created for, those players enjoyed it for what it was...especially looking at the average player score.

In fact, the average player score, average review score, and gamespot's score are all 8's...I would have to be pretty arrogant to claim the game "doesn't deserve it"...it obviously does.

I simply did not enjoy the game...hey...I am allowed. But I am not going to pretend my dissatisfaction overrides everyone else.

IMHO opinion Bioshoch deserves all of its hype and glory, I've played systemshock 2 and 1, loved them, but honestly dosent compete agianst bioshockmillerlight89

I enjoyed the overall aspects of bioshock from the story to the weapons atmosphere, IDK I just loved it like you love system shock, I mean i'm not calling you out just different viewsmillerlight89

That is very, very intriguing. Out of curiosity, what about the accessibility, is that one of the reasons it's so much better? Was the atmosphere (water, era, etc) a very major factor in making the game more enjoyable for yourself over System Shock 2?

I thought we had this thread like a week ago, my answer was yes then, and it's yes now. However I still think it's a great game.nutcrackr

My sentiments exactly, and I'll also repeat I think BioShock is the most overrated game in recent memory.

[QUOTE="fatshodan"][QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

How does one even quantify "over-rated-ness"? Never played Bioshock (other then the demo), so I don't even have my hat in the ring...but curious as to how anybody can say whether something is "overrated" or not.

Seems like saying something is "overrated" is some new fad or something...because I have seen a "X is overrated" for just about every single popular game that has been released...

millerlight89

You rated Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles a 2.8, yeah? GameSpot rated it an 8. That is you stating through the awesome power of numbers that you think GameSpot has ovverrated the game. Then imagine if every site and publication gave it 8+. Then imagine if it sold over three million units and won numerous game of the year awards, and forums were full of praise for the magnificent game that is Crystal Chronicles.

Describing something as being overrated is taking popular opinion and your opinion and reconciling the two. I wouldn't call that a fad, myself, but I agree that modern games are being more harshly criticised by certain groups - not that I necessarily see that as a bad thing. Someone has to do it, because the critics sure as hell aren't.

BioShock is to me as Crystal Chronicles is to you (well, not quite, bit you get the picture) and BioShock is pretty much the second or third highest rated PC game of all ever, and it absolutely does not deserve it at all.

All Your opinion

Thank you for informing me that my opinion is my opinion. I had started to think that perhaps I was sharing someone else's opinion, but thanks to your insight I see now that that is not the case and that I am in fact sharing my own opinion.

I definitely won't make that mistake again.

Remember guys, my opinion is mine. Definitely mine.

I didn't say Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles was overrated, I don't like the game. In fact, I hated it. However, I don't think it's "overrated" as it's obviously marketed to a different kind of player and wasn't what I expected. I assume to whatever player market it was created for, those players enjoyed it for what it was...especially looking at the average player score.

In fact, the average player score, average review score, and gamespot's score are all 8's...I would have to be pretty arogant to claim the game "doesn't deserve it"...it obviously does.

I simply did not enjoy the game...hey...I am allowed. But I am not going tto pretend my disatisfaction overides everyone else.

dnuggs40

No, see, as far as you're concerned, it does override everyone else's opinions. Not as far as they're concerned - but for you to hold your opinion and for it to be applicable to you, their opinions on the game have to hold no weight. That you don't agree with them doesn't invalidate their opinion any more than their opinion invalidates your own

But you are saying I think it's a 2.8 and everyone else is saying they think it's an 8 and with that, you are saying that you think it's overrated relative to your own opinion - even if you aren't saying those particular words. There is no objective measure of quality - everything is subjective, and because of that, no one is right or wrong, but every opinion is weighed relative to every other. If someone thinks one thing and you think another thing, you disagree with them.

If you think the game is worth a 2.8, you think everyone else is overrating it relative to your opinion. It has no bearing on what anyone else thinks, or what they should think. Like I said, it's just a way of reconciling public opinion with your own. You clearly have a very live and let live attitude, which is refreshing on an internet forum, but if you don't understand my post, well, I don't understand why not.

I mean, surely you've noticed that people argue about what they do and don't like? That's sort of the whole point of forums...

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

I didn't say Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles was overrated, I don't like the game. In fact, I hated it. However, I don't think it's "overrated" as it's obviously marketed to a different kind of player and wasn't what I expected. I assume to whatever player market it was created for, those players enjoyed it for what it was...especially looking at the average player score.

In fact, the average player score, average review score, and gamespot's score are all 8's...I would have to be pretty arogant to claim the game "doesn't deserve it"...it obviously does.

I simply did not enjoy the game...hey...I am allowed. But I am not going tto pretend my disatisfaction overides everyone else.

fatshodan

No, when you say something is "overrated" you are saying it does not deserve the praise it has recieved or was rated too high by reviewers/players.

That's much different then holding a different opinion then other people.

If you like steak and I say I don't, then we have different opinions regarding steak, but I am still respecting your opinion. If I say steak is "overrated", I just claimed that steak is not as good as you think ;)

No, when you say something is "overrated" you are saying it does not deserve the praise it has recieved or was rated too high by reviewers/players.

That's much different then holding a different opinion then other people.

If you like steak and I say I don't, then we have different opinions regarding steak, but I am still respecting your opinion. If I say steak is "overrated", I just claimed that steak is not as good as you think ;)

dnuggs40

Seems that way...

if you get the game for anything more than $30, then you've commited a sin. i bought it for $50 and I honestly just can't give it much respect. single player FPS games tend to not have much replay value, and this is no exception especially when I only found enough enjoyment for one playthrough (and multiple endings aren't very encouraging here). it's a decent game, but you're going to want to buy it at a lower price.

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]No, when you say something is "overrated" you are saying it does not deserve the praise it has recieved or was rated too high by reviewers/players.

That's much different then holding a different opinion then other people.

If you like steak and I say I don't, then we have different opinions regarding steak, but I am still respecting your opinion. If I say steak is "overrated", I just claimed that steak is not as good as you think ;)

Piesics

Well, let's be clear about one thing at least, saying a game is overrated in no way diminishes the opinion of another person.

It is a disagreement in opinion, that's all. Without rigid objective criteria established to make a judgement (the rating given to a tire for sustainable tire pressure for example), ratings are merely opinions anyway.

A forum is an ideal format for discussion and elaboration by the way, if there were only room to state your opinion without further discussion pertaining to differences in opinion (for fear it would be taken as disrespect), I think said forum would be a rather dull place - IMO ;)

Saying something (something where ratings are commonly applicable) is overrated will often mean a comparison to a general consensus, cumulative rating, perception, etc but can also be a comparison to specific rating. For example, GS gave BioShock a rating of 9.0. That's a bit too high from my perspective and I would rate it lower, thus their score is over my score. In my opinion, it has been overrated by GS. If we cannot even compare "scores" in this manner, then to me, they have little value and should not be used in the first place.

It's all subjective, and no one should feel someone's opinions aren't being respected by the use of the term overrated from another's viewpoint, or a simply stated difference in opinion.

I think Yatzee from Escapist Magazine pretty much hit the nail on the head: Bioshock is a competent game, but was vastly hyped (or at least aggressively marketed) so in the hype sense it is over-rated.

The game itself while a bit easy with the rebirth machines everywhere (I preferred the old system shock 2 method of having to activate one or two per level and dying if you couldn't get to them) but the story and style holds up so in that sense it was good, but not the mana of a supreme being if you believe in that sort of thing.

Good Game? Yes; Good enough to play through twice? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[QUOTE="Piesics"][QUOTE="dnuggs40"]No, when you say something is "overrated" you are saying it does not deserve the praise it has recieved or was rated too high by reviewers/players.

That's much different then holding a different opinion then other people.

If you like steak and I say I don't, then we have different opinions regarding steak, but I am still respecting your opinion. If I say steak is "overrated", I just claimed that steak is not as good as you think ;)

Nitrous2O

Well, let's be clear about one thing at least, saying a game is overrated in no way diminishes the opinion of another person.

It is a disagreement in opinion, that's all. Without rigid objective criteria established to make a judgement (the rating given to a tire for sustainable tire pressure for example), ratings are merely opinions anyway.

A forum is an ideal format for discussion and elaboration by the way, if there were only room to state your opinion without further discussion pertaining to differences in opinion (for fear it would be taken as disrespect), I think said forum would be a rather dull place - IMO ;)

Saying something (something where ratings are commonly applicable) is overrated will often mean a comparison to a general consensus, cumulative rating, perception, etc but can also be a comparison to specific rating. For example, GS gave BioShock a rating of 9.0. That's a bit too high from my perspective and I would rate it lower, thus their score is over my score. In my opinion, it has been overrated by GS. If we cannot even compare "scores" in this manner, then to me, they have little value and should not be used in the first place.

It's all subjective, and no one should feel someone's opinions aren't being respected by the use of the term overrated from another's viewpoint, or a simply stated difference in opinion.

Actually, it does. Look up the definition of the word "overrated". It doesn't imply a difference of opinion, it implies that opinion is misjudged or overstated the merits of the "thing" in question.

Saying something is "overrated" directly implies the rating in which it received is undeserved or over valued. That's not the same thing.

"I don't like steak"

and

"Steak is overrated"

are two different statements and have two different implications...

Actually, it does. Look up the definition of the word "overrated". It doesn't imply a difference of opinion, it implies that opinion is misjudged or overstated the merits of the "thing" in question.dnuggs40

How are opinions not implied by this? To say the merits, of the "thing" in question, have been misjudged or overstated is very often an opinion. Are you saying the term only applies to absolutes? If so, you're entitled to that, however, I'll continue to use the expression as I have in the past.

Saying something is "overrated" directly implies the rating in which it received is undeserved or over valued. That's not the same thing.

"I don't like steak"

and

"Steak is overrated"

are two different statements and have two different implications...

dnuggs40

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/overrated

The definition of overrate is to "to overestimate the merits of; rate too highly". To overrate something is "to have too high an opinion of".

If I say GS overrated BioShock, then I believe they have "too high an opinion" of that game, it has been rated too highly, the merits have been overstated or overestimated.

"I don't like BioShock"

and

"I think BioShock is overrated"

have two very different meanings and implications as well.

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]Actually, it does. Look up the definition of the word "overrated". It doesn't imply a difference of opinion, it implies that opinion is misjudged or overstated the merits of the "thing" in question.Nitrous2O

How are opinions not implied by this? To say the merits, of the "thing" in question, have been misjudged or overstated is very often an opinion. Are you saying the term only applies to absolutes? If so, you're entitled to that, however, I'll continue to use the expression as I have in the past.

Saying something is "overrated" directly implies the rating in which it received is undeserved or over valued. That's not the same thing.

"I don't like steak"

and

"Steak is overrated"

are two different statements and have two different implications...

dnuggs40

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/overrated

The definition of overrate is to "to overestimate the merits of; rate too highly". To overrate something is "to have too high an opinion of".

If I say GS overrated BioShock, then I believe they have "too high an opinion" of that game, it has been rated too highly, the merits have been overstated or overestimated.

"I don't like BioShock"

and

"I think BioShock is overrated"

have two very different meanings and implications as well.

You're not understanding the difference.

When you say something is overrated, you are not only saying you disagree with the opinion(s), you are saying those opinions are also over estimated, misjudged, ect.

When I tell you I don't like steak (assuming you do) we simply disagree on the taste of steak. If I tell you steak is overrated, not only am I telling you I don't like steak, I am ALSO telling you that your opinion of steak is overstated or misjudged.

Is it a good game? Yes. Is it Game of the Year material? No, not even close. Team Fortress 2, Half-Life 2: Episode 2, Portal, Crysis, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Call of Duty 4, Race 07, Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts, and Sam & Max Season 1 - all of them were better. And The Witcher, World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade, Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, and Command & Conquer 3 series might be better than Bioshock as well.augustlight

When you say something is overrated, you are not only saying you disagree with the opinion(s), you are saying those opinions are also over estimated, misjudged, ect.dnuggs40

Absolutely. That's why I disagree with them, they have been overestimated, misjudged, etc from my point of view.

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]When you say something is overrated, you are not only saying you disagree with the opinion(s), you are saying those opinions are also over estimated, misjudged, ect.Nitrous2O

Absolutely. That's why I disagree with them, they have been overestimated, misjudged, etc from my point of view.

There's a distinct difference between disagreeing and and saying it's overrated. In one, people just have two different opinions, in the other, you are claiming the other opinion is inaccurate.

You don't have to like steak...we can disagree there. But when you tell me people's opinion of steak is overrated, there's a difference, and you have now diminished other people's opinion of steak.

[QUOTE="augustlight"]Is it a good game? Yes. Is it Game of the Year material? No, not even close. Team Fortress 2, Half-Life 2: Episode 2, Portal, Crysis, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Call of Duty 4, Race 07, Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts, and Sam & Max Season 1 - all of them were better. And The Witcher, World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade, Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, and Command & Conquer 3 series might be better than Bioshock as well.Digital_DJ_00

[QUOTE="augustlight"]Is it a good game? Yes. Is it Game of the Year material? No, not even close. Team Fortress 2, Half-Life 2: Episode 2, Portal, Crysis, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Call of Duty 4, Race 07, Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts, and Sam & Max Season 1 - all of them were better. And The Witcher, World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade, Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, and Command & Conquer 3 series might be better than Bioshock as well.Digital_DJ_00

On topic, BioShock is good and just good. Only worth one playthrough. It excells im a few ways except in gameplay which unfortunately for 2K matters most. Gameplay felt mediocre to me and that's my biggest problem with it.

And after playing SS2, I can't ever play that again.

[QUOTE="Digital_DJ_00"][QUOTE="augustlight"]Is it a good game? Yes. Is it Game of the Year material? No, not even close. Team Fortress 2, Half-Life 2: Episode 2, Portal, Crysis, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Call of Duty 4, Race 07, Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts, and Sam & Max Season 1 - all of them were better. And The Witcher, World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade, Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, and Command & Conquer 3 series might be better than Bioshock as well.fethehl

There's a distinct difference between disagreeing and and saying it's overrated. In one, people just have two different opinions, in the other, you are claiming the other opinion is inaccurate.dnuggs40

LOL of course I'm claiming the other opinion is inaccurate, to me, it is. Why even bother drawing my own conclusions if all other opinions are just as accurate for myself? If it's not applied relatively, then there is no such thing as an inaccurate opinion ;)

Overrated is a form of being in disagreement. In my opinion, there's been no conclusive evidence brought forth otherwise. You are absolutely 100% entitled to your use of the word though and my opinion is not intended to be a bad reflection on yours.

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]There's a distinct difference between disagreeing and and saying it's overrated. In one, people just have two different opinions, in the other, you are claiming the other opinion is inaccurate.Nitrous2O

LOL of course I'm claiming the other opinion is inaccurate, to me, it is. Why even bother drawing my own conclusions if all other opinions are just as accurate for myself? If it's not applied relatively, then there is no such thing as an inaccurate opinion ;)

Overrated is a form of being in disagreement. In my opinion, there's been no conclusive evidence brought forth otherwise. You are absolutely 100% entitled to your use of the word though and my opinion is not intended to be a bad reflection on yours.

It's not my use, its the definition of the word. I am not saying you can't claim things are overrated, just make sure you know that when you do you *are* diminishing the opinion of another person (unlike what you claimed in the earlier post, and unlike simply disagreeing with someone).

If you don't agree with that, take it up with webster's dictionary lol.

[QUOTE="Nitrous2O"]

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]There's a distinct difference between disagreeing and and saying it's overrated. In one, people just have two different opinions, in the other, you are claiming the other opinion is inaccurate.dnuggs40

LOL of course I'm claiming the other opinion is inaccurate, to me, it is. Why even bother drawing my own conclusions if all other opinions are just as accurate for myself? If it's not applied relatively, then there is no such thing as an inaccurate opinion ;)

Overrated is a form of being in disagreement. In my opinion, there's been no conclusive evidence brought forth otherwise. You are absolutely 100% entitled to your use of the word though and my opinion is not intended to be a bad reflection on yours.

It's not my use, its the definition of the word. I am not saying you can't claim things are overrated, just make sure you know that when you do you *are* diminishing the opinion of another person (unlike what you claimed in the earlier post, and unlike simply disagreeing with someone).

If you don't agree with that, take it up with webster's dictionary lol.

I have no problems with the definitions presented so far, only with your allegation, or the conclusion that you are drawing from the definitions, that they indicate that this form of disagreement implies diminishing the value (or more importantly disrespecting) other people's opinions.

overrate (n): to overestimate the merits of; rate too highly
overrate (v): to have too high an opinion of

Once again, coming full circle, taking that definition at face value, if I say GS overrated BioShock, then I believe they have "too high an opinion" of that game, it has been rated too highly, the merits have been overstated or overestimated. In and of it's own, their opinion has just as much relevance to exist as my own.

Also once again, you are entitled to your interpretation.

[QUOTE="Digital_DJ_00"][QUOTE="augustlight"]Is it a good game? Yes. Is it Game of the Year material? No, not even close. Team Fortress 2, Half-Life 2: Episode 2, Portal, Crysis, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Call of Duty 4, Race 07, Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts, and Sam & Max Season 1 - all of them were better. And The Witcher, World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade, Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, and Command & Conquer 3 series might be better than Bioshock as well.mo0ksi

On topic, BioShock is good and just good. Only worth one playthrough. It excells im a few ways except in gameplay which unfortunately for 2K matters most. Gameplay felt mediocre to me and that's my biggest problem with it.

And after playing SS2, I can't ever play that again.

[QUOTE="augustlight"]Is it a good game? Yes. Is it Game of the Year material? No, not even close. Team Fortress 2, Half-Life 2: Episode 2, Portal, Crysis, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Call of Duty 4, Race 07, Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts, and Sam & Max Season 1 - all of them were better. And The Witcher, World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade, Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, and Command & Conquer 3 series might be better than Bioshock as well.Digital_DJ_00

If those games suck, BioShock sucks even more.

[QUOTE="Digital_DJ_00"][QUOTE="augustlight"]Is it a good game? Yes. Is it Game of the Year material? No, not even close. Team Fortress 2, Half-Life 2: Episode 2, Portal, Crysis, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Call of Duty 4, Race 07, Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts, and Sam & Max Season 1 - all of them were better. And The Witcher, World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade, Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, and Command & Conquer 3 series might be better than Bioshock as well.augustlight

If those games suck, BioShock sucks even more.

[QUOTE="augustlight"]

[QUOTE="Digital_DJ_00"][QUOTE="augustlight"]Is it a good game? Yes. Is it Game of the Year material? No, not even close. Team Fortress 2, Half-Life 2: Episode 2, Portal, Crysis, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Call of Duty 4, Race 07, Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts, and Sam & Max Season 1 - all of them were better. And The Witcher, World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade, Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, and Command & Conquer 3 series might be better than Bioshock as well.Digital_DJ_00

If those games suck, BioShock sucks even more.

[QUOTE="Digital_DJ_00"][QUOTE="augustlight"]

[QUOTE="Digital_DJ_00"][QUOTE="augustlight"]Is it a good game? Yes. Is it Game of the Year material? No, not even close. Team Fortress 2, Half-Life 2: Episode 2, Portal, Crysis, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Call of Duty 4, Race 07, Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts, and Sam & Max Season 1 - all of them were better. And The Witcher, World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade, Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, and Command & Conquer 3 series might be better than Bioshock as well.augustlight

If those games suck, BioShock sucks even more.

[QUOTE="augustlight"]
Wow, was that sarcasm? Because that was extremely clever!Digital_DJ_00

What about "BioShock sucks even more" did you take personal offense at that you felt the need to be sarcastic? I really don't understand people who resort to sarcasm and think that's a clever response.

[QUOTE="Digital_DJ_00"][QUOTE="augustlight"]
Wow, was that sarcasm? Because that was extremely clever!augustlight

What about "BioShock sucks even more" did you take personal offense at that you felt the need to be sarcastic? I really don't understand people who resort to sarcasm and think that's a clever response.

[QUOTE="augustlight"]
[QUOTE="Digital_DJ_00"][QUOTE="augustlight"]

Wow, was that sarcasm? Because that was extremely clever!Digital_DJ_00

What about "BioShock sucks even more" did you take personal offense at that you felt the need to be sarcastic? I really don't understand people who resort to sarcasm and think that's a clever response.

Umm... Hello? You're the one that started this by saying that the games that I listed "...suck.' What the ****?

And my point isn't that your response wasn't clever. My point is that your response was unnecessarily mean-spirited in an effort to be clever (which is the very nature of sarcasm).

[QUOTE="Digital_DJ_00"][QUOTE="augustlight"]
[QUOTE="Digital_DJ_00"][QUOTE="augustlight"]

Wow, was that sarcasm? Because that was extremely clever!augustlight

What about "BioShock sucks even more" did you take personal offense at that you felt the need to be sarcastic? I really don't understand people who resort to sarcasm and think that's a clever response.

Umm... Hello? You're the one that started this by saying that the games that I listed "...suck.' What the ****?

And my point isn't that your response wasn't clever. My point is that your response was unnecessarily mean-spirited in an effort to be clever (which is the very nature of sarcasm).

Maybe if you would have read the last page before this one, you wouldn't have said that... Unnecessarily? Do you mean unintentionally? Once again, once you reply with a "Bioshock sucks even more" which strikes me as a half assed response which doesn't require a clever comeback since the original post wasn't clever to begin with.
Digital_DJ_00

Oh my, I'll let this be my last post, cuz this is going nowhere fast, and you're free (of course) to respond as much and in any fashion that you choose. You wrote that the games that I listed sucked. I wrote back by saying that if those games indeed suck, then BioShock sucks even more, because in my assessment, those games are better than BioShock. That's the only thing I meant by what I wrote and wasn't half-assed at all. My assessment that BioShock is not Game of the Year material because it's worse than the games that I listed doesn't require your opinion; it's MY assessment, so you saying that the other games suck doesn't really add anything to what I wrote; in fact, saying those games suck (and you probably haven't even played all those games) IS a half-assed response. To that, I used your own word (suck) and reiterated my main point (that those games are better than BioShock, in my opinion). Now, if you hadn't responded to me at all (and instead created an original post stating that BioShock is the third best game to come out in 2007) or if you responded with something more intelligent than saying that the games that I listed suck, then I probably wouldn't have responded back to you at all, because we're all free to opine as we see fit. But since you DID respond to me (and in a half-assed manner at that), I felt it befitting to respond to you in like. You get it?

[QUOTE="Digital_DJ_00"]

Maybe if you would have read the last page before this one, you wouldn't have said that... Unnecessarily? Do you mean unintentionally? Once again, once you reply with a "Bioshock sucks even more" which strikes me as a half assed response which doesn't require a clever comeback since the original post wasn't clever to begin with.
augustlight

Oh my, I'll let this be my last post, cuz this is going nowhere fast, and you're free (of course) to respond as much and in any fashion that you choose. You wrote that the games that I listed sucked. I wrote back by saying that if those games indeed suck, then BioShock sucks even more, because in my assessment, those games are better than BioShock. That's the only thing I meant by what I wrote and wasn't half-assed at all. My assessment that BioShock is not Game of the Year material because it's worse than the games that I listed doesn't require your opinion; it's MY assessment, so you saying that the other games suck doesn't really add anything to what I wrote; in fact, saying those games suck (and you probably haven't even played all those games) IS a half-assed response. To that, I used your own word (suck) and reiterated my main point (that those games are better than BioShock, in my opinion). Now, if you hadn't responded to me at all (and instead created an original post stating that BioShock is the third best game to come out in 2007) or if you responded with something more intelligent than saying that the games that I listed suck, then I probably wouldn't have responded back to you at all, because we're all free to opine as we see fit. But since you DID respond to me (and in a half-assed manner at that), I felt it befitting to respond to you in like. You get it?

You're not understanding the difference.

When you say something is overrated, you are not only saying you disagree with the opinion(s), you are saying those opinions are also over estimated, misjudged, ect.

When I tell you I don't like steak (assuming you do) we simply disagree on the taste of steak. If I tell you steak is overrated, not only am I telling you I don't like steak, I am ALSO telling you that your opinion of steak is overstated or misjudged.

dnuggs40

I understand what you're saying, and, yes, that may be ideal and may just work in a world where people are all intelligent and never give stupid opinions, but in this reality, people are stupid (I'd say that 90% of them are, and I'm pretty sure I'm one of them) and give stupid opinions, and the few elite that know better should - nay, MUST - give their opinions to drown out the stupidity and enlighten us stupid people. Which is why we have such words as 'overrated' that in an intelligent world would have no utility but in this stupid world is very much practical and necessary.

[QUOTE="mo0ksi"]

[QUOTE="Digital_DJ_00"][QUOTE="augustlight"]Is it a good game? Yes. Is it Game of the Year material? No, not even close. Team Fortress 2, Half-Life 2: Episode 2, Portal, Crysis, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Call of Duty 4, Race 07, Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts, and Sam & Max Season 1 - all of them were better. And The Witcher, World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade, Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, and Command & Conquer 3 series might be better than Bioshock as well.Digital_DJ_00

On topic, BioShock is good and just good. Only worth one playthrough. It excells im a few ways except in gameplay which unfortunately for 2K matters most. Gameplay felt mediocre to me and that's my biggest problem with it.

And after playing SS2, I can't ever play that again.

BioShock was decent when I first played it. After I played System Shock 2 I just think low of the game.

What gets me is how the heck are people so wowed by something that was done better almost a decade ago? Answer me that.

And secondly... people who say BioShock isn't overrated, but who also haven't played its spiritual predecessor have no right to make any claims about BioShock's quality - if they want their claims to carry weight, anyway.

fatshodan

That's about as false a statement as you could make. People who say the game is good probably judge the game by itself and not based on what you believe to be it's spiritual predecessor. First of all, it's not System Shock 3, it's Bioshock, so the game cannot justly be compared to it's so-called "spiritual predecessor". And some people actually judge a game by judging the game and not comparing it to games that have long since died. Seriously, if you don't like it fine, but don't **** because it's not a carbon copy of the games you played when you hit puberty.

games you played when you hit puberty.

chesterocks7

[QUOTE="fatshodan"]

And secondly... people who say BioShock isn't overrated, but who also haven't played its spiritual predecessor have no right to make any claims about BioShock's quality - if they want their claims to carry weight, anyway.

chesterocks7

That's about as false a statement as you could make. People who say the game is good probably judge the game by itself and not based on what you believe to be it's spiritual predecessor. First of all, it's not System Shock 3, it's Bioshock, so the game cannot justly be compared to it's so-called "spiritual predecessor". And some people actually judge a game by judging the game and not comparing it to games that have long since died. Seriously, if you don't like it fine, but don't **** because it's not a carbon copy of the games you played when you hit puberty.

I think most System Shock 2 fans are upset BECAUSE it's a(n inferior) carbon-copy of the game they grew up playing. It was totally unoriginal; it featured a very similar (in concept) dystopian society and had the same exact kind of plot twist and had dumbed-down role-playing elements (and the weapons weren't that fun to use). Most people that haven't played System Shock 2 but love BioShock do so because of its story and the plot twist and the dystopian setting, all of which are copied from System Shock 2, so I personally agree with fatshodan (while still liking the game more than he seems to). Now, if you like something else besides those elements and believe that the game deserves the praise that it received even without factoring those positive (copied) attributes, then you have an argument to make; otherwise, if you haven't played System Shock 2 and love BioShock because of the story and plot twist and the dystopian setting, then your argument for the game has little weight.

[QUOTE="chesterocks7"][QUOTE="fatshodan"]

And secondly... people who say BioShock isn't overrated, but who also haven't played its spiritual predecessor have no right to make any claims about BioShock's quality - if they want their claims to carry weight, anyway.

augustlight

That's about as false a statement as you could make. People who say the game is good probably judge the game by itself and not based on what you believe to be it's spiritual predecessor. First of all, it's not System Shock 3, it's Bioshock, so the game cannot justly be compared to it's so-called "spiritual predecessor". And some people actually judge a game by judging the game and not comparing it to games that have long since died. Seriously, if you don't like it fine, but don't **** because it's not a carbon copy of the games you played when you hit puberty.

if you haven't played System Shock 2 and love BioShock because of the story and plot twist and the dystopian setting, then your argument for the game has little weight.

I haven't played SS2 and I do love Bioshock. I love Bioshock for the story, the plot twist, the unique setting, the graphical sty1e and quality, the voice acting, the combat combination of weapons and plasmids, the many different upgrades you can get, and how well everything ties in together. Sure Bioshock may not have everything that System Shock 2 has (I wouldn't know I've never played it) but to call Bioshock bad for that reason alone is really unfair and biased. Bioshock received the praise it got because the people who praised it looked at the game on it's own, and not as what it should be holding up to as a spiritual sequal.

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

You're not understanding the difference.

When you say something is overrated, you are not only saying you disagree with the opinion(s), you are saying those opinions are also over estimated, misjudged, ect.

When I tell you I don't like steak (assuming you do) we simply disagree on the taste of steak. If I tell you steak is overrated, not only am I telling you I don't like steak, I am ALSO telling you that your opinion of steak is overstated or misjudged.

augustlight

I understand what you're saying, and, yes, that may be ideal and may just work in a world where people are all intelligent and never give stupid opinions, but in this reality, people are stupid (I'd say that 90% of them are, and I'm pretty sure I'm one of them) and give stupid opinions, and the few elite that know better should - nay, MUST - give their opinions to drown out the stupidity and enlighten us stupid people. Which is why we have such words as 'overrated' that in an intelligent world would have no utility but in this stupid world is very much practical and necessary.

I'll tell ya...this made me laugh (in a good way). I think that's what I was getting at in the first post, and how it was more of a social observation then anything. Seems like the conversation has changed a lot these days, it used to be people would discuss a game's merits, and now you can't have an unrelated conversation about a game without someone comming in and saying it's overrated.

What gets me is how the heck are people so wowed by something that was done better almost a decade ago? Answer me that.

mo0ksi

Easy. Bioshock sold in the millions. System Shock 2 sold in the hundreds of thousands, max.

What do reviewers care about nowadays. Oh right, popularity. I mean, it's not like actual game quality matters, right? As long as the kiddies love it, then I gotta love it too!

I'm not actually attacking Bioshock, but more to stating an opinion on modern gaming journalists.