Is game A.I. getting better?

RTS games stopped improving in 2002.

FPS games stopped improving in 1998, when Half-Life came out.

Okay, so I overexaggerate, but honestly the computers haven't gotten a whole lot smarter in the last five years.

gbarules2999

THen you probably haven't been keeping up to date with games.

If AIs weren't getting smarter, then that could only mean one thing...developers don't care about single player aspects of the game and focus solely on the multiplayer aspects of the game...what people really care about. If it's single player only then I guess that's a different story.

I saw AI improvements in both STALKER and F.E.A.R. And now that I've played a bit of Bioshock, I can say with confidence that the AI has definitely improved.

What's more is we still haven't seen the other big guns of 2007...let alone what 2008 will bring to our desktops.

[QUOTE="gbarules2999"]

RTS games stopped improving in 2002.

FPS games stopped improving in 1998, when Half-Life came out.

Okay, so I overexaggerate, but honestly the computers haven't gotten a whole lot smarter in the last five years.

Skullheart

THen you probably haven't been keeping up to date with games.

If AIs weren't getting smarter, then that could only mean one thing...developers don't care about single player aspects of the game and focus solely on the multiplayer aspects of the game...what people really care about. If it's single player only then I guess that's a different story.

I saw AI improvements in both STALKER and F.E.A.R. And now that I've played a bit of Bioshock, I can say with confidence that the AI has definitely improved.

What's more is we still haven't seen the other big guns of 2007...let alone what 2008 will bring to our desktops.

Okay, I'll give Halo, which did a decent job. FEAR was sort of cool (but you could tell that it's all the developers cared about because the rest of the game was boring office walking) and the AI would run forward and call out things to each other. UT2004 had some really great bots, but that's a multiplayer game. :P

But that's why I said "I exaggerate." Full post, dude, read it all. There are going to be exceptions to the rule, but the rule nowadays is pretty much full frontal, WWII bots running at you with no brains, because that's where the market is. People don't need fancy AI when they can have a COD scripted moment.

As for the post right above me, you're missing other genres. Not just shooters: RTS games, RPG games, Turn based games (well, okay, they stopped having to do AI with Civ 3). The games and genres that don't have very good AI at the moment, and there is no "on and off" switch to be had.

[QUOTE="BounceDK"]Fear is a perfect example of how you can trick people into thinking it was all super hardcore fantastic AI at work, when in fact most of it was scripted events with a bunch of animations. That and the fact that there are tons of premade path lines the AI can follow. Far Cry still has the most impressive AI I've seen as they are designed to work in a sandbox environment where there are no premade paths, scripted events or boxes that tells them "this is a cover point" etc.MondoCool

I can't agree with you there, I palyed farcry the other day, and sometimes when I was shooting at them they didn't even know where I was. The ai in that game is smart when they are not near you but when your at their face their pretty dumb.

I agree with MondoCool.The AI in FEAR are good because th enemies are hard to kill and they run everywhere make me hard to shoot at them.

Of course AI is getting better, just not ina way you guys seem to understand. Let's take it back to the beginning...2D games. Back then, AI had to only manage to move in a few ways (up, down, left, right) and back then most of the AI was very primitive and easy. As technology advanced, 3D quickly became the norm, and developers had to deal with a whole new dimension to make these characters move in. And even in the beginning of 3D, it was fairly simple. Enemies would literally sit inside completely flat rooms (wolf 3d) awaiting for you to come, and either move a bit or just sit and shoot.

As 3D games became more advanced (addition of elevation), again, so did the AI for the enemies had to become increasingly more advanced.

So now lets take it to the last 5 years or so. Games like Halo, HL 1, and others seem to revolutionize the industry. AI would take cover, throw granades, initiate melee when you got to close. The end product was brilliant, but you have to remember, it still was limited by small(er) levels and less complicated terrain. A few years later, we get games like Farcry and FEAR. Wow! Squad based tactics! Cover and move in teams. Very good advancements indeed. And the environments are even complicated with many obstacles and wide open. However, this was a trick of sorts, as many of it was scripted (especially in FEAR).

So now the big hurdle is to get the AI to use these tactics and work with each other, but in completely open and dynamic ways. STALKER has done a great job with this (though when it makes a mistake, it is obvious). In STALKER, the enemies do all the previous things I listed, except they do it in a HUGE open world on a dynamic scale. There is even fully explorable building that AI must be able to navigate. All while dealing with other types of NPC (other factions, animals, the player) and priorities.

So of course AI is getting better. Maybe notin leaps and bounds all the time, but developers are certainly making headway. As games get more complicated, so will the AI.

I'm sorry but, not really, gaming is getting even more complex and AI is not following that pace, it does a little bit but not fully

For that AI is getting better because games are getting better, but in other way, AI is not following the gamers needs for more realistic and challenging game experience.

I know that not even all of us are hardcore gamers, but we deserve something more

So do you think they dumb-down a lot of games just to target a broad audience? What was the last game you played that you thought was actually too difficult?And by difficult I don't mean throwing huge numbers at you,but using better tactics.Ken1a

STALKER does use some good AI, but I found everything but the most difficult setting to actually provide a challange to me. Same with Halo, Doom 3, Quake 4, Call of Duty 2, Half-Life 2....

FEAR gave me a bit of a challange, but it still wasn't terribly difficult.... Try playing FEAR without using your reflex ability and then the game becomes hard, even on the easier settings. They guys move so quick compared to you and they do a wonderful job of flanking you whenever possible. It's kind of like trying to play Max Payne without the bullet time....that was pretty entertaining.

If I had to vote on the last game that actually gave good AI (or gave the apperance of good AI), then I'd have to go with FEAR, followed by STALKER/Half-Life 2.

[QUOTE="Ken1a"]So do you think they dumb-down a lot of games just to target a broad audience? What was the last game you played that you thought was actually too difficult?And by difficult I don't mean throwing huge numbers at you,but using better tactics.neatfeatguy

STALKER does use some good AI, but I found everything but the most difficult setting to actually provide a challange to me. Same with Halo, Doom 3, Quake 4, Call of Duty 2, Half-Life 2....

FEAR gave me a bit of a challange, but it still wasn't terribly difficult.... Try playing FEAR without using your reflex ability and then the game becomes hard, even on the easier settings. They guys move so quick compared to you and they do a wonderful job of flanking you whenever possible. It's kind of like trying to play Max Payne without the bullet time....that was pretty entertaining.

If I had to vote on the last game that actually gave good AI (or gave the apperance of good AI), then I'd have to go with FEAR, followed by STALKER/Half-Life 2.

Of course AI is getting better, just not ina way you guys seem to understand. Let's take it back to the beginning...2D games. Back then, AI had to only manage to move in a few ways (up, down, left, right) and back then most of the AI was very primitive and easy. As technology advanced, 3D quickly became the norm, and developers had to deal with a whole new dimension to make these characters move in. And even in the beginning of 3D, it was fairly simple. Enemies would literally sit inside completely flat rooms (wolf 3d) awaiting for you to come, and either move a bit or just sit and shoot.

As 3D games became more advanced (addition of elevation), again, so did the AI for the enemies had to become increasingly more advanced.

So now lets take it to the last 5 years or so. Games like Halo, HL 1, and others seem to revolutionize the industry. AI would take cover, throw granades, initiate melee when you got to close. The end product was brilliant, but you have to remember, it still was limited by small(er) levels and less complicated terrain. A few years later, we get games like Farcry and FEAR. Wow! Squad based tactics! Cover and move in teams. Very good advancements indeed. And the environments are even complicated with many obstacles and wide open. However, this was a trick of sorts, as many of it was scripted (especially in FEAR).

So now the big hurdle is to get the AI to use these tactics and work with each other, but in completely open and dynamic ways. STALKER has done a great job with this (though when it makes a mistake, it is obvious). In STALKER, the enemies do all the previous things I listed, except they do it in a HUGE open world on a dynamic scale. There is even fully explorable building that AI must be able to navigate. All while dealing with other types of NPC (other factions, animals, the player) and priorities.

So of course AI is getting better. Maybe notin leaps and bounds all the time, but developers are certainly making headway. As games get more complicated, so will the AI.

dnuggs40

metal gear, hitman and splinter cell all have brilliant AI . especially blood money

i think half life 2 has really good A.Iencary

lol, wtf

If brain dead AI= Good AI then sure it has great AI

And when did a game with hard enemies to kill = good AI?

There was very little change between the AI in Doom & Doom 3 :PAJMFace

Hehe yeah you know there is so much the bad guys can do in a narrow straight hallway ;)

Actually the only games that have impressed me with their AI was Far Cry and Hitman Blood Money, Although they are flawed i was finding myself enjoying watching their behavior, especially with Blood Money, just funny making changes on the levels and see how they react to it.

FEAR was a fun action game, but i wasnt impressed with the AI in that one.

And judging from the DEMO then Biochock isnt gonna make anything new in that department either.

Just because some games don't have good AI it doesn't mean AI has stopped developing. Some arcade style games aren't meant to have good AI. For example, AI for Mario is pretty dumb, but the game is still very fun. But, I think the reason why AI hasn't improved much in games where a smart AI would benefit is that there's a lot less incentive to develop AI than developing other parts.

[QUOTE="xsqmko"]

Best AL ever was and it's F.E.A.R. Al.......no game has or it's near the Al of F.E.A.R.

Many Games tried but it was a desaster......stupid producers =\

Maybe Bioshock and Crysis will have smart Al.

Cranler

Keep in mind that Fear is a linear game. Much tougher to program ai in a sandbox game like Stalker. As far as linear games go I say Gears of War beats Fear. They take cover better and pop out for shots in multiple positions.

Do we talk about X360 Games or what????

I thought this is about a PC Forum.

In Stalker Enemies run to u like hell.....i mean u can throw a grenade to take them all....... and they are not so agile either...:roll: