Left4Dead; Pricey...

I think $49.99 for Left4Dead is way too much. It's just a mod for the source engine (and you can not argue that, as is half life 2). I think it would have been much more reasonable at $29.99.

They could have atleast made extra puzzles for Portal, or a double class release for TF2; no, just L4D that's a little too pricey. I'll wait until they lower the price.

It's just a mod for the source engine (and you can not argue that, as is half life 2).xNJN

Yeah, I can. Watch me. By your rationale, any game that uses the same engine as any other game is a mod, right? So... Call of Duty is a Quake 3 mod, right? BioShock is an Unreal Tournament 3 mod, right? Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines is a Half Life 2 mod, right? I mean, they're made in the same engine, so they're mods? Right?

Wrong. They are completely different games made in the same engine. Left 4 Dead is very much its own game and it has absolutely nothing to do with Half Life 2 at all.

I think it would have been much more reasonable at $29.99.xNJN

I don't. I'm gonna get hundreds of hours of awesome enjoyment out of the game. Why should it cost half as much as some linear ten hour game? They're also going to offer regular free updates after release, like TF2. Most linear games that cost twice as much barely even get patches, never mind content updates.

I'll wait until they lower the price.xNJN

Your loss.

It feels high because its only a multiplayer game and it costs significantly higher than Valve's past mp only offerings. Also is it only getting 4 maps? Or will there be more? Because to me 4 maps is not OK at a full game price tag.

Why should it cost half as much as some linear ten hour game?

fatshodan

Because, regardless of whether or not you'll find 100+ hours of enjoyment with the game, the game essentially amounts to killing wave after wave of zombies. Why should a game that basically rehashes the same one hour of gameplay (which isn't particularly exciting to begin with) cost the same as much as a game that offers an interesting, compelling and varied 10 hour experience?

Actually they added tonnes of features such as the director. That would of taken so long to code it would of been redicilous.dunnedlor

Huzzah for level scaling!

/thread fails

Stop Complaining. I would of paid $100 for Left 4 Dead, at $45 its a steal right now.

[QUOTE="fatshodan"]

Why should it cost half as much as some linear ten hour game?

_Memento_

Because, regardless of whether or not you'll find 100+ hours of enjoyment with the game, the game essentially amounts to killing wave after wave of zombies. Why should a game that basically rehashes the same one hour of gameplay (which isn't particularly exciting to begin with) cost the same as much as a game that offers an interesting, compelling and varied 10 hour experience?

Varied eh. Gears of War has just about zero variety. You duck behind objects and shoot at waves of locusts for the whole game. Ended up AAA. Costed $60. One of 100s of examples too.

[QUOTE="xNJN"] It's just a mod for the source engine (and you can not argue that, as is half life 2).fatshodan

Yeah, I can. Watch me.

hahahaha i loved reading that xD

[QUOTE="_Memento_"][QUOTE="fatshodan"]

Why should it cost half as much as some linear ten hour game?

GodLovesDead

Because, regardless of whether or not you'll find 100+ hours of enjoyment with the game, the game essentially amounts to killing wave after wave of zombies. Why should a game that basically rehashes the same one hour of gameplay (which isn't particularly exciting to begin with) cost the same as much as a game that offers an interesting, compelling and varied 10 hour experience?

Varied eh. Gears of War has just about zero variety. You duck behind objects and shoot at waves of locusts for the whole game. Ended up AAA. Costed $60. One of 100s of examples too.

GoW has the following:

- Campaign with several different sequences (vehicle, kryll, boos fights) with several different types of enemies in several different environments.

- Co op mode

- FFA versus and Team versus game modes across a decent number of maps.

How is that the same compared to shooting endless waves of zombies on a small selection of maps? Not that Gears of War is a shining example of variety or anything, but even a fairly derivative game like Gears of War manages to offer more than this piece of crap trying to pass off as a full-priced game.

[QUOTE="GodLovesDead"][QUOTE="_Memento_"][QUOTE="fatshodan"]

Why should it cost half as much as some linear ten hour game?

_Memento_

Because, regardless of whether or not you'll find 100+ hours of enjoyment with the game, the game essentially amounts to killing wave after wave of zombies. Why should a game that basically rehashes the same one hour of gameplay (which isn't particularly exciting to begin with) cost the same as much as a game that offers an interesting, compelling and varied 10 hour experience?

Varied eh. Gears of War has just about zero variety. You duck behind objects and shoot at waves of locusts for the whole game. Ended up AAA. Costed $60. One of 100s of examples too.

GoW has the following:

- Campaign with several different sequences (vehicle, kryll, boos fights) with several different types of enemies in several different environments.

- Co op mode

- FFA versus and Team versus game modes across a decent number of maps.

How is that the same compared to shooting endless waves of zombies on a small selection of maps? Not that Gears of War is a shining example of variety or anything, but even a fairly derivative game like Gears of War manages to offer more than this piece of crap trying to pass off as a full-priced game.

So, all Left 4 Dead needs is some badly done 5 minute vehicle sections and sections with no enemies whatsoever and you'll be happy? Sheesh.

Thankfully, Left 4 Dead is leaving out things that aren't fun. It has the action. It has the boss fights. It has the cooperative and competitive multiplayer. And since when is 25 missions a small selection? Seems large enough to me. Quit passing off Left 4 Dead as some small coop zombie fest with few maps and few things to do. It's bigger than most games out there.

[QUOTE="GodLovesDead"][QUOTE="_Memento_"][QUOTE="fatshodan"]

Why should it cost half as much as some linear ten hour game?

_Memento_

Because, regardless of whether or not you'll find 100+ hours of enjoyment with the game, the game essentially amounts to killing wave after wave of zombies. Why should a game that basically rehashes the same one hour of gameplay (which isn't particularly exciting to begin with) cost the same as much as a game that offers an interesting, compelling and varied 10 hour experience?

Varied eh. Gears of War has just about zero variety. You duck behind objects and shoot at waves of locusts for the whole game. Ended up AAA. Costed $60. One of 100s of examples too.

GoW has the following:

- Campaign with several different sequences (vehicle, kryll, boos fights) with several different types of enemies in several different environments.

- Co op mode

- FFA versus and Team versus game modes across a decent number of maps.

How is that the same compared to shooting endless waves of zombies on a small selection of maps? Not that Gears of War is a shining example of variety or anything, but even a fairly derivative game like Gears of War manages to offer more than this piece of crap trying to pass off as a full-priced game.

Left 4 Dead has the following

1. A versus Mode where Players can take over the roles of the zombie bosses.
2. Coop with 4 players, or 8 player versus mode
3. An AI system that controls the Zombie Spawn, allowing for infinite playability.

Anyway it doesn't matter, since you called Left 4 Dead crap next to gears of war, therefore.

basically the only thing GoW has that left4dead cant match is its singleplayer... which i found extremely boring. I only played it for its co op with my friend, otherwise i wouldnt have even touched the game. basically i played it in hopes that it would be left4dead... same reason i play halo3 campaign with friends only.

left 4 dead might have community support, itll have updates with probably more levels and more. It's already a better deal than GoW at 60 dollars (xbox 360). wont argue about pricing for halo 3 cause it seems like it has a whole lot of stuff... only to get more you need to pay more.

So, all Left 4 Dead needs is some badly done 5 minute vehicle sections and sections with no enemies whatsoever and you'll be happy? Sheesh.

GodLovesDead

Doesn't matter. The argument was about variety, Gears of War has more of it than Left 4 Dead. You can't choose to conveniently ignore it by arguing that it's irrelevant because you thought the varied sections were poorly done.

And the vehicle sequence was just one example, I listed more and better examples. Gears of War simply offers more, that's a fact.

EDIT: Why comparie L4D to a mediocre game like Gears of War anyway? I don't ever recall praising Gears of War for its incredible amount of variety anyway. Aiming low FTW?

[QUOTE="GodLovesDead"]

So, all Left 4 Dead needs is some badly done 5 minute vehicle sections and sections with no enemies whatsoever and you'll be happy? Sheesh.

_Memento_

Doesn't matter. The argument was about variety, Gears of War has more of it than Left 4 Dead. You can't choose to conveniently ignore it by arguing that it's irrelevant because you thought the varied sections were poorly done.

And the vehicle sequence was just one example, I listed more and better examples. Gears of War simply offers more, that's a fact.

And my point is that variety means nothing if it doesn't contribute to the game. The vehicle section in GoW detracted from the game instead of added to it. Left 4 Dead might have more than just shooting zombies. Who the hell knows. The game isn't even out yet.

EDIT: And Gears of War is obviously that linear 10 hour game that you think Left 4 Dead should cost half as much as.

1. An AI system that controls the Zombie Spawn, allowing for infinite playability.

Jodan77

ROFL

Infinite playability! Endless possibilities! No two experiences ever the same! Level-scaling FTW!

Are you part of Valve's PR deparment or something?

I think it's a bit pricey. After all, it IS multiplayer only.

I'm probably going to pass on it. None of my friends are getting it therefore it'll be boring playing with randoms. It'll be an extended version of zombie panic source, alright for a few hours with some friends. Boring after that. But meh, game isn't even out yet. I might change my mind afterreviews.

Left 4 Dead might have more than just shooting zombies. Who the hell knows. The game isn't even out yet.

GodLovesDead

Well, considering the fact that Valve is hyping the crap out of a level-scaling feature of all things, I would say it's pretty safe to infer that the game has nothing interesting going for it. I base my expectations on logical assumptions, not on overly optimistic suppositions.

If the game actually had more to offer, Valve would be busy hyping it, because even they probably realize that the seeming repetitiveness of the game is the biggest concern that people have. If they had any other solution to that besides "well once you get better, more zombies will come at you", then chances are they would've mentioned it.

[QUOTE="Jodan77"]

1. An AI system that controls the Zombie Spawn, allowing for infinite playability.

_Memento_

ROFL

Infinite playability! Endless possibilities! No two experiences ever the same! Level-scaling FTW!

Are you part of Valve's PR deparment or something?

No. But I'd like to be.

Anyway, infinite replayability doesn't mean what it sounds like. It just means no two experiences will be exactly the same. Lots of online mutliplayer shooters are infinitely replayble, since you can never predict what the other player is going to do.

Left 4 Dead is special because the game's ai enemies are not predictable in where they will spawn, and in what numbers. So what if during Gears campaign, the locust enemies you fought were never in the same place. Or what if instead of coming across 5 grunts, you came across 2 boomers instead?

Sure people will get bored of left 4 Dead, but every time you play something will be different. But whatever, you seem to have already called Left 4 Dead Crap, so I don't take you seriously.

[QUOTE="GodLovesDead"]

Left 4 Dead might have more than just shooting zombies. Who the hell knows. The game isn't even out yet.

_Memento_

Well, considering the fact that Valve is hyping the crap out of a level-scaling feature of all things

The AI-Director does much more than get simply just get easier and just get harder. It keeps the game interesting the entire time - to make sure you're always challenged. It randomizes the enemie's spawn locations and ambushes constantly. Would you imagine what Diablo 2 would be like if it was the same exact lay-out every time you played it? Nobody would still play it today. Obviously it's a bit different though because Left 4 Dead is keeping good level design instead of cookie-cutter design.

EDIT: And Gears of War is obviously that linear 10 hour game that you think Left 4 Dead should cost half as much as.

GodLovesDead

Gears of War has a multiplayer mode as well (which is more significant than its fairly dull campaign), so no, Gears of War is not the sort of game I'm referring to.

The original Fallout, where the average playthrough is about 6-7 hours, is a much better example.

[QUOTE="GodLovesDead"]

EDIT: And Gears of War is obviously that linear 10 hour game that you think Left 4 Dead should cost half as much as.

_Memento_

Gears of War has a multiplayer mode as well (which is more significant than its fairly dull campaign), so no, Gears of War is not the sort of game I'm referring to.

The original Fallout, where the average playthrough is about 6-7 hours, is a much better example.

Fallout isn't nearly as linear though. And Gears of War's multiplayer was typical cookie-cutter multiplayer that seemed added on just for the sake. I played it for maybe an hour and trashed it.

[QUOTE="Jodan77"]

1. An AI system that controls the Zombie Spawn, allowing for infinite playability.

_Memento_

ROFL

Infinite playability! Endless possibilities! No two experiences ever the same! Level-scaling FTW!

Are you part of Valve's PR deparment or something?

I don't get it.. Whats the problem with that? Its a shooter not a rpg, would you prefer that it to have the exact same scripted fights through out the entire level every time you play it?

I think $49.99 for Left4Dead is way too much. It's just a mod for the source engine (and you can not argue that, as is half life 2)

xNJN

Just because a game is made on a specific engine doesn't mean it's a mod. If that were the case at least 75% of AAA games would be considered "mods". Give me a break.

The AI-Director does much more than get simply just get easier and just get harder. It keeps the game interesting the entire time - to make sure you're always challenged. It randomizes the enemie's spawn locations and ambushes constantly. Would you imagine what Diablo 2 would be like if it was the same exact lay-out every time you played it? Nobody would still play it today. Obviously it's a bit different though because Left 4 Dead is keeping good level design instead of cookie-cutter design.

GodLovesDead

Randomized spawn locations is nothing special in an online experience. Yes, it'll ensure that you're always on the alert, but that's pretty much what is expected in the online component of a game. Even when playing your standard deathmatch, your enemies can come at you any time and you have to constantly be prepared and alert. How is L4D so special in this regard? Instead of typical mutliplayer opponents (bots and other people), you have zombies. I don't see the great significance of this.

Well, I won't be buying it till it drops to $30 or lower. I don't want to waste $50 for a multiplayer game where I could get Fallout 3 or Farcry 2 for just as much. Especially Farcry 2 which has a HUGE Singleplayer and probably a decent Multiplayer.

I'm not saying its a bad game. Its probably going to be an AAA game that'll score 9.0 or something but shooting zombies gets old after ahwhile. Spending $50 just for that is meh. (And yes, I've played alot of Zombie mod in Counterstrike: Source)

[QUOTE="GodLovesDead"]

The AI-Director does much more than get simply just get easier and just get harder. It keeps the game interesting the entire time - to make sure you're always challenged. It randomizes the enemie's spawn locations and ambushes constantly. Would you imagine what Diablo 2 would be like if it was the same exact lay-out every time you played it? Nobody would still play it today. Obviously it's a bit different though because Left 4 Dead is keeping good level design instead of cookie-cutter design.

_Memento_

Randomized spawn locations is nothing special in an online experience. Yes, it'll ensure that you're always on the alert, but that's pretty much what is expected in the online component of a game. Even when playing your standard deathmatch, your enemies can come at you any time and you have to constantly be prepared and alert. How is L4D so special in this regard? Instead of typical mutliplayer opponents (bots and other people), you have zombies. I don't see the great significance of this.

No one is saying Left 4 Dead ideas are unique.. But the game it self IS unique.. There is a serious lack of any kind of survival co-op game.. And it really compares to no game out there unfortantely, because such things is hardly ever made.

Fallout isn't nearly as linear though. And Gears of War's multiplayer was typical cookie-cutter multiplayer that seemed added on just for the sake.

GodLovesDead

[QUOTE="GodLovesDead"]

The AI-Director does much more than get simply just get easier and just get harder. It keeps the game interesting the entire time - to make sure you're always challenged. It randomizes the enemie's spawn locations and ambushes constantly. Would you imagine what Diablo 2 would be like if it was the same exact lay-out every time you played it? Nobody would still play it today. Obviously it's a bit different though because Left 4 Dead is keeping good level design instead of cookie-cutter design.

_Memento_

Randomized spawn locations is nothing special in an online experience. Yes, it'll ensure that you're always on the alert, but that's pretty much what is expected in the online component of a game.

Too bad the only other online coop FPS game that does this is Swat 4. =\

[QUOTE="GodLovesDead"]

Fallout isn't nearly as linear though. And Gears of War's multiplayer was typical cookie-cutter multiplayer that seemed added on just for the sake.

_Memento_

Obviously we have opposite ideas of what makes a good online component. I thought Quake 3's + UT's multiplayer smoked Gears of War's.

Eh, sorry if I came off a bit harsh. I am very much anticipating this game, so whenever anyone says the slightest thing negative about the game, I freak out.

I do think the game has it's flaws, and no game is perfect. I've just been waiting so long, I don't really care about them, or overlook them.

That being said, I can see how people just look at the game from a glance, it does look like an arcadey shooter. But there's more depth to it than that.

I think that the Orange Box just made us all spoilt.AlIegro

That it did do.

It is a full standalone, so I don't see why it would not be $50.

All arguments telling me that it's pricey, it's low in value, it's a mod. That is complete bogus.

I can't even be bothered to argue those points because they are so flawed, all I need to tell you is that...

CounterStrike Source... $40 bucks back in the day, and I've played it for a healthy FOUR years. If Left 4 Dead entertains me for half as much as that, I'd be willing to pay $100.

No one is saying Left 4 Dead ideas are unique.. But the game it self IS unique.. There is a serious lack of any kind of survival co-op game.. And it really compares to no game out there unfortantely, because such things is hardly ever made.sSubZerOo

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]No one is saying Left 4 Dead ideas are unique.. But the game it self IS unique.. There is a serious lack of any kind of survival co-op game.. And it really compares to no game out there unfortantely, because such things is hardly ever made.foxhound_fox

Thank God for that. Zombies are probably the lamest, dullest and most boring enemies in existence. Well, aside from mudcrabs.

[QUOTE="xNJN"] It's just a mod for the source engine (and you can not argue that, as is half life 2).fatshodan

Yeah, I can. Watch me. By your rationale, any game that uses the same engine as any other game is a mod, right? So... Call of Duty is a Quake 3 mod, right? BioShock is an Unreal Tournament 3 mod, right? Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines is a Half Life 2 mod, right? I mean, they're made in the same engine, so they're mods? Right?

Wrong. They are completely different games made in the same engine. Left 4 Dead is very much its own game and it has absolutely nothing to do with Half Life 2 at all.

I think it would have been much more reasonable at $29.99.xNJN

I don't. I'm gonna get hundreds of hours of awesome enjoyment out of the game. Why should it cost half as much as some linear ten hour game? They're also going to offer regular free updates after release, like TF2. Most linear games that cost twice as much barely even get patches, never mind content updates.

I'll wait until they lower the price.xNJN

Your loss.

lol! that was entertaining.

Anyway, to your first argument: Yes all of those games are mods. They are modifications of an original engine. If they were not modifications, they would have their own original engine. But since they do not, they are, inarguably, a mod.

/thread fails

Stop Complaining. I would of paid $100 for Left 4 Dead, at $45 its a steal right now.

Jodan77

Hardly a steal, because over time it will be less. Just add patience. There will still be people playing it when I buy it at $29.99 or $19.99.

In the meantime, I'll study my Advanced Functions.

[QUOTE="xNJN"]

I think $49.99 for Left4Dead is way too much. It's just a mod for the source engine (and you can not argue that, as is half life 2)

SuperBeast

Just because a game is made on a specific engine doesn't mean it's a mod. If that were the case at least 75% of AAA games would be considered "mods". Give me a break.

Technically they are mods; modifications of an original engine, thus ( VERY loosely due to the ammount of modifications) unoriginal.

I agree $50 is a bit too much, compared to the $20 TF2 it's a ripoff. Based on what I've seen of the content, $40 is ok, $30 is perfect.Erlkoenig

bruva luv!

Eh, sorry if I came off a bit harsh. I am very much anticipating this game, so whenever anyone says the slightest thing negative about the game, I freak out.

I do think the game has it's flaws, and no game is perfect. I've just been waiting so long, I don't really care about them, or overlook them.

That being said, I can see how people just look at the game from a glance, it does look like an arcadey shooter. But there's more depth to it than that.

Jodan77

Thank you for being empathetic.

$49.9 is the standard price for new full games in the US.

[QUOTE="_Memento_"]

No. Typical cookie-cutter multiplayer would be Quake/Unreal Tournament style games which seem to be all the rave in PC online gaming. Gears of War's small scale, close quarters 4vs4 multiplayer was relatively different enough and a lot more fun than the average PC online shooter experience.

GodLovesDead

Obviously we have opposite ideas of what makes a good online component. I thought Quake 3's + UT's multiplayer smoked Gears of War's.

You missed his point completely. If they wanted to tack on a multiplayer, they'd have tacked on some easy unoriginal idea that was already out there like the cookie cutter (all the same, cut with the same thing) multiplayer like Q3 + UT, rather than make their own 4v4 small CC matchs.