Mass Effect vs The Witcher

As for choices, there were only 3 points in the game where the choices you made really meant anything, even then they had no real effect on the story

Philmon

so basically make it none of the so-called *choices* really matters. the sci-fi version of open palm and close fist...typical Bioware simplistic alignment scheme and worse: on one end still the merry do gooder and on the other half baked mean sob (cannot really be that big an a^^hole as in genuine CRPG such as Arcanum).

the annoying inverntory simply makes the whole thing worse: unless implementing the unlimited inventory in JRPG, no loot should be forced to drop in! they're freaking "loots"...means that we decide to loot it or not, not something automatically dropping after combat.

as for how ME stands as Bioware works? well, among its major RPG titles, I have to rank it the last, behind both NWN and Jade Empire. As much as I dislike NWN compared to the BG2ish sequel, it still has the distinct charm of the realms.

The story was descent for a game, but to the best of my knowledge there is only one real encounter that is directly related to your past and that can be totally missed since it is a side quest.Philmon

The inventory system in ME is really, really terrible. When the inventory system of old games like Diablo, BG and most other RPGs is much better and easier to use than those of ME you know something is wrong. I can understand why they did it like that for the console, but even so it is really bad (especially when you need to sell/buy items). Philmon

Also the lack of veriety in item models is very disappointing. Every weapon/armor looks virtually the same with the only difference being color schemes. How in the world can armor/weapons made by different manufacturers owned by different species all look the same?Philmon

As for choices, there were only 3 points in the game where the choices you made really meant anything, even then they had no real effect on the story, and the way they try to justify this is that you are some kind of untouchable enforcer who can do whatever they want and no one will care. There is just no follow through on the decisions you make.

Philmon

Anywho, the pointless choices can be attributed to laziness, much like level scaling. They thought that people wouldn't notice when their alignment bar affected nothing (apart from buying stuff with your infinite supply of money) or that the 3 dialogue options lead to the same thing. I was hoping there would be some punishment for me doing worse stuff than Saren apart from having to listen to Liara's voice acting like, I dunno, revoking my Spectre status and letting me deal with the consequences of that.

[QUOTE="attirex"]

...and I predict the second and third installments will be published only for consoles. So don't get too excited.

Why? The publisher will claim that the PC version didn't sell well, too much piracy, etc., and so isn't worth the development cost.

You heard it hear first!

And remember, PC gaming isn't dead!

:D

leper-messiahs

Umm, wrong, Bioware have already stated Mass effect 2 and 3 will be on Pc shortly after the 360 versions.

mass effect is by far biowares worst game, very overrated, the Witcher as a RPG is vastly better. Me was short, side missions were terrible, repetitive and uninspired, mant areas were dull, lacked any kind of detail (Cooridoors, with a few crates, that is the level design). The witcher oozes atmosphere, choice, and the world really feels alive and is detailed. ME was a good game, but not near as good as the review lead you to believe, The witcher, especially the Enhanced Edition is a way better Role Play experience. ME virtually has only a few choices that actually mean anything the entire game, most you just get a different reponse from the NPC, the witcher has tonnes of choice in how to handle quests, and many have big consequences on thestory, even many side quests have multiple ways to do them and haveconsequences, leper-messiahs

i disagree...

[QUOTE="leper-messiahs"]mass effect is by far biowares worst game, very overrated, the Witcher as a RPG is vastly better. Me was short, side missions were terrible, repetitive and uninspired, mant areas were dull, lacked any kind of detail (Cooridoors, with a few crates, that is the level design). The witcher oozes atmosphere, choice, and the world really feels alive and is detailed. ME was a good game, but not near as good as the review lead you to believe, The witcher, especially the Enhanced Edition is a way better Role Play experience. ME virtually has only a few choices that actually mean anything the entire game, most you just get a different reponse from the NPC, the witcher has tonnes of choice in how to handle quests, and many have big consequences on thestory, even many side quests have multiple ways to do them and haveconsequences, Lach0121

i disagree...

Amazng points you made there......

[QUOTE="Philmon"]

The story was descent for a game, but to the best of my knowledge there is only one real encounter that is directly related to your past and that can be totally missed since it is a side quest.RobbieH1234

The inventory system in ME is really, really terrible. When the inventory system of old games like Diablo, BG and most other RPGs is much better and easier to use than those of ME you know something is wrong. I can understand why they did it like that for the console, but even so it is really bad (especially when you need to sell/buy items). Philmon

Also the lack of veriety in item models is very disappointing. Every weapon/armor looks virtually the same with the only difference being color schemes. How in the world can armor/weapons made by different manufacturers owned by different species all look the same?Philmon

As for choices, there were only 3 points in the game where the choices you made really meant anything, even then they had no real effect on the story, and the way they try to justify this is that you are some kind of untouchable enforcer who can do whatever they want and no one will care. There is just no follow through on the decisions you make.

Philmon

Anywho, the pointless choices can be attributed to laziness, much like level scaling. They thought that people wouldn't notice when their alignment bar affected nothing (apart from buying stuff with your infinite supply of money) or that the 3 dialogue options lead to the same thing. I was hoping there would be some punishment for me doing worse stuff than Saren apart from having to listen to Liara's voice acting like, I dunno, revoking my Spectre status and letting me deal with the consequences of that.

Good post, sums it up well, loot, money, side quests are all terrible in ME, if not for a decent SP story, it would have been a bad game, still not great by any means. As a RPG ME is not all its cracked up to be, at all. The role playing aspects are vastly, and I mean Vastly handled much better in The Witcher.

[QUOTE="Lach0121"]

[QUOTE="leper-messiahs"]mass effect is by far biowares worst game, very overrated, the Witcher as a RPG is vastly better. Me was short, side missions were terrible, repetitive and uninspired, mant areas were dull, lacked any kind of detail (Cooridoors, with a few crates, that is the level design). The witcher oozes atmosphere, choice, and the world really feels alive and is detailed. ME was a good game, but not near as good as the review lead you to believe, The witcher, especially the Enhanced Edition is a way better Role Play experience. ME virtually has only a few choices that actually mean anything the entire game, most you just get a different reponse from the NPC, the witcher has tonnes of choice in how to handle quests, and many have big consequences on thestory, even many side quests have multiple ways to do them and haveconsequences, leper-messiahs

i disagree...

Amazng points you made there......

[QUOTE="leper-messiahs"][QUOTE="Lach0121"]

[QUOTE="leper-messiahs"]mass effect is by far biowares worst game, very overrated, the Witcher as a RPG is vastly better. Me was short, side missions were terrible, repetitive and uninspired, mant areas were dull, lacked any kind of detail (Cooridoors, with a few crates, that is the level design). The witcher oozes atmosphere, choice, and the world really feels alive and is detailed. ME was a good game, but not near as good as the review lead you to believe, The witcher, especially the Enhanced Edition is a way better Role Play experience. ME virtually has only a few choices that actually mean anything the entire game, most you just get a different reponse from the NPC, the witcher has tonnes of choice in how to handle quests, and many have big consequences on thestory, even many side quests have multiple ways to do them and haveconsequences, Lach0121

i disagree...

Amazng points you made there......

It is just a cover for "I have nothing valid or intelligent to say, so I will just say I disagree". Imagine if everyone on the forum posted with no thought like you, every post would be one word and void of any discussion. If that is the point you were making good job. if your just going to psot one word replies why bother posting, this is a discussion board.

[QUOTE="Lach0121"][QUOTE="leper-messiahs"][QUOTE="Lach0121"]

[QUOTE="leper-messiahs"]mass effect is by far biowares worst game, very overrated, the Witcher as a RPG is vastly better. Me was short, side missions were terrible, repetitive and uninspired, mant areas were dull, lacked any kind of detail (Cooridoors, with a few crates, that is the level design). The witcher oozes atmosphere, choice, and the world really feels alive and is detailed. ME was a good game, but not near as good as the review lead you to believe, The witcher, especially the Enhanced Edition is a way better Role Play experience. ME virtually has only a few choices that actually mean anything the entire game, most you just get a different reponse from the NPC, the witcher has tonnes of choice in how to handle quests, and many have big consequences on thestory, even many side quests have multiple ways to do them and haveconsequences, leper-messiahs

i disagree...

Amazng points you made there......

It is just a cover for "I have nothing valid or intelligent to say, so I will just say I disagree". Imagine if everyone on the forum posted with no thought like you, every post would be one word and void of any discussion. If that is the point you were making good job. if your just going to psot one word replies why bother posting, this is a discussion board.

first the story of ME is great, and the atmosphere and mood were as well... the game was short but oh well...

ME was a great game.. and will be a great trilogy in my opinion. and hopes... secondly i dont have to agree with you or even post a f**king long post listing why..... when you wont even listen to it, which you have proven with your latest post degrading my intelligence.... peace.

[QUOTE="leper-messiahs"][QUOTE="Lach0121"][QUOTE="leper-messiahs"][QUOTE="Lach0121"]

[QUOTE="leper-messiahs"]mass effect is by far biowares worst game, very overrated, the Witcher as a RPG is vastly better. Me was short, side missions were terrible, repetitive and uninspired, mant areas were dull, lacked any kind of detail (Cooridoors, with a few crates, that is the level design). The witcher oozes atmosphere, choice, and the world really feels alive and is detailed. ME was a good game, but not near as good as the review lead you to believe, The witcher, especially the Enhanced Edition is a way better Role Play experience. ME virtually has only a few choices that actually mean anything the entire game, most you just get a different reponse from the NPC, the witcher has tonnes of choice in how to handle quests, and many have big consequences on thestory, even many side quests have multiple ways to do them and haveconsequences, Lach0121

i disagree...

Amazng points you made there......

It is just a cover for "I have nothing valid or intelligent to say, so I will just say I disagree". Imagine if everyone on the forum posted with no thought like you, every post would be one word and void of any discussion. If that is the point you were making good job. if your just going to psot one word replies why bother posting, this is a discussion board.

first the story of ME is great, and the atmosphere and mood were as well... the game was short but oh well...

ME was a great game.. and will be a great trilogy in my opinion. and hopes... secondly i dont have to agree with you or even post a f**king long post listing why..... when you wont even listen to it, which you have proven with your latest post degrading my intelligence.... peace.

You are not very bright, I WOULD listen to a well written post, you expect for people to listen to "I Disagree", that was my whole point. If you want people to listen try and post with at least the intelligence level over a 5 year old. I never said it was not a good a game either, just not as good RPG as The witcher, and many reasons why have been listed by me and others. ME won Awards from media sites, The Witcher was Voted by Gamers as the best RPG.

Who said anything about a post needing to be long?

[QUOTE="Lach0121"][QUOTE="leper-messiahs"][QUOTE="Lach0121"][QUOTE="leper-messiahs"][QUOTE="Lach0121"]

[QUOTE="leper-messiahs"]mass effect is by far biowares worst game, very overrated, the Witcher as a RPG is vastly better. Me was short, side missions were terrible, repetitive and uninspired, mant areas were dull, lacked any kind of detail (Cooridoors, with a few crates, that is the level design). The witcher oozes atmosphere, choice, and the world really feels alive and is detailed. ME was a good game, but not near as good as the review lead you to believe, The witcher, especially the Enhanced Edition is a way better Role Play experience. ME virtually has only a few choices that actually mean anything the entire game, most you just get a different reponse from the NPC, the witcher has tonnes of choice in how to handle quests, and many have big consequences on thestory, even many side quests have multiple ways to do them and haveconsequences, leper-messiahs

i disagree...

Amazng points you made there......

It is just a cover for "I have nothing valid or intelligent to say, so I will just say I disagree". Imagine if everyone on the forum posted with no thought like you, every post would be one word and void of any discussion. If that is the point you were making good job. if your just going to psot one word replies why bother posting, this is a discussion board.

first the story of ME is great, and the atmosphere and mood were as well... the game was short but oh well...

ME was a great game.. and will be a great trilogy in my opinion. and hopes... secondly i dont have to agree with you or even post a f**king long post listing why..... when you wont even listen to it, which you have proven with your latest post degrading my intelligence.... peace.

You are not very bright, I WOULD listen to a well written post, you expect for people to listen to "I Disagree", that was my whole point. If you want people to listen try and post with at least the intelligence level over a 5 year old. I never said it was not a good a game either, just not as good RPG as The witcher, and many reasons why have been listed by me and others. ME won Awards from media sites, The Witcher was Voted by Gamers as the best RPG.

Who said anything about a post needing to be long?

I suspect that Bioware is paying Gamespot for higher ratings. Only that can explain the 9.0 and mass effect always being on the front page currently availabe/ highest rated list . With most of the reasons explained in very detail in the previous posts, Mass effect in my opinion is average at best. On the other hand user rating is at 8.8, which is way high even if we exclude the famous Bioware fanbois lurking around here.

I enjoyed both, but I have Mass Effect for my 360 so I'm not sure about it's performance on the PC.

I liked Mass Effect better, it held my attention longer than The Witcher, but part of that problem could be my PC chugging along when in cities or busy areas with The Witcher..

There are some very insightful posts on this thread. I especially found the linked blog post to be a good read (I can't cut and paste to this chat box for some reason).

I have been a Bioware fan for quite some time now. The first game I played from them was NVM, but I didn't have the PC to run it well at the time. I played all of their games on the Xbox; and even though KOTOR2 was made by Obsidian, I found the story to be richer and fuller then the first one. The gameplay was somewhat shallow, but I was still drawn in. Those games made me pay more attention to the Star Wars franchise. Jade Empire is the same thing. Come to think of it, I should expect the same out of Mass Effect.

The Witcher seems promising. To me, they are a unproven company, which is why I posted in the first place. There is no excess hype surrounding them. The main thing that people seem to complain about is the loading times. I hope that they fixed that in the enhanced version as advertised.

If it wasn't for posts like these, then I would never have given wonderous (and bugged) games such as Vampire: The Masquerade a chance.

I am definately going to play the Witcher. I have a feeling that I will be pleasantly surprised.

Many cited mood to be a big factor in Mass Effect's appeal. I can understand that; it's Bioware. I will eventually have to play that too -if anything- to justify my purchase of a 4870.

I apologize for a long post, but this thread is pretty interesting to me, as it's been pointed out it isn't often that there are many good PC games on the market at the same time.

P.S. I just played through Fallout 2 again about a couple months ago :)

Witcher is better than ME. ME is another shooter/RPG that totally fails in both areas. It provides the illusion that you are role-playing complemented with clunky gameplay mechanics that get really sloppy. You have the illusion of multiple dialog choices but you really don't. Your character says the same thing regardless most of the time and the game proceeds as normal. There is no choice to be made. You follow a linear story where it's all mapped out for you. No matter how hard you try you cannot deny someone from joining your crew. Everything is presented in black and white. The world should be gray.

Character customization is a small part of an RPG that is almost unneccasary. RPG's that do allow it actually have a poorer story do to writing issues from you choosing specifics such as your own character's name.

True RPG's are about the characters, their choices and morals, and the story. It's about being thrown into someone elses shoes and doing what you think would be appropriate in the situations presented to them. When I say character I don't mean how they look but their very essence of being. As for story, RPG's just need them.

RPG's are not about stats, gear, isometric views, etc. whatever. This is just a system put in place to replicate, to the best of its ability, a character's growth.

The Witcher comes leaps and bounds closer to fulfilling everything a true RPG needs to be than ME and is probably the best modern CRPG.

Character customization is a small part of an RPG that is almost unneccasary. RPG's that do allow it actually have a poorer story do to writing issues from you choosing specifics such as your own character's name.

True RPG's are about the characters, their choices and morals, and the story. It's about being thrown into someone elses shoes and doing what you think would be appropriate in the situations presented to them. When I say character I don't mean how they look but their very essence of being. As for story, RPG's just need them.

RPG's are not about stats, gear, isometric views, etc. whatever. This is just a system put in place to replicate, to the best of its ability, a character's growth.

Grim_Wolf88

RPG definition #24168

According to my own definition, if RPG was only about characters, choices, morals, and the story, I would rather go read a goddamn book, or watch a friggin' movie. That, or go write lengthy paragraphs in character in the role-playing sections of message boards.

Imagine Fallout 1/2 without the combat, stats, perks, skills, items. A Fallout where if you want to kill a deathclaw you only need to click on a dialog option like "Kill deathclaw" and then the game kill the thing for you and you get a message describing in great details how your character killed it.

No thank you sir, these gameplay elements are part of what make the RPG genre so addicting.

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

[QUOTE="Erlkoenig"]Haven't played Witcher, but it's hard to top the shallowness of Mass Effect's gameplay, so I'm voting Witcher.Erlkoenig

Its not shallow.

Then you must not have played many good computer RPGs. Hell, it's even more shallow than Oblivion. Character customization is close to zero.

What :? Oblivion had no real character customization.. You can choose like 6 or 7 major skills.. Then end up max every one in the game, infact you got really no advantages from majors or minor.. Infact Oblivion would have not changed what so ever, if they didn't give you a skill system to begin with.

[QUOTE="Erlkoenig"][QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

[QUOTE="Erlkoenig"]Haven't played Witcher, but it's hard to top the shallowness of Mass Effect's gameplay, so I'm voting Witcher.sSubZerOo

Its not shallow.

Then you must not have played many good computer RPGs. Hell, it's even more shallow than Oblivion. Character customization is close to zero.

What :? Oblivion had no real character customization.. You can choose like 6 or 7 major skills.. Then end up max every one in the game, infact you got really no advantages from majors or minor.. Infact Oblivion would have not changed what so ever, if they didn't give you a skill system to begin with.

yeah, ME's character customization is shallow, while Oblivion's is simply meaningless.

Witcher is better than ME. ME is another shooter/RPG that totally fails in both areas. It provides the illusion that you are role-playing complemented with clunky gameplay mechanics that get really sloppy. You have the illusion of multiple dialog choices but you really don't. Your character says the same thing regardless most of the time and the game proceeds as normal. There is no choice to be made. You follow a linear story where it's all mapped out for you. No matter how hard you try you cannot deny someone from joining your crew. Everything is presented in black and white. The world should be gray.

Character customization is a small part of an RPG that is almost unneccasary. RPG's that do allow it actually have a poorer story do to writing issues from you choosing specifics such as your own character's name.

True RPG's are about the characters, their choices and morals, and the story. It's about being thrown into someone elses shoes and doing what you think would be appropriate in the situations presented to them. When I say character I don't mean how they look but their very essence of being. As for story, RPG's just need them.

RPG's are not about stats, gear, isometric views, etc. whatever. This is just a system put in place to replicate, to the best of its ability, a character's growth.

The Witcher comes leaps and bounds closer to fulfilling everything a true RPG needs to be than ME and is probably the best modern CRPG.

Grim_Wolf88

I disagree full heartily.. Stat based growth is a must for making your character feel more powerful.. Every single game from Baldur's Gate 2 to the newer ones.. Had heavy emphasis on items and stat based character builds.. With out such a thing, there is no strategy.. There is no real customization.. There is really no sense of growth..

Like shooters are there for the action and shooting.. Stat based development is there to fill in the limited control you have for your character in combat.. The best games have a healthy balance in this.. Baldur's Gate 2 not only had great story, but the DnD system helped facitiliate goals for your characters in feeling more powerful.. Getting new weapons, being able to cast certain spells etc etc.. basically what you are saying can fit directly into those old pc game movies where you watched it and during certain scenes gave you liek 6 choices to choose from whcih would change the course of the game.

And in the end Diablo 2 disagrees with you.. To me I think all rpgs need a healthy balance of both stat based and story... Top that off many people don't think Diablo 2 is a RPG.. If that is the case, then the majority of MMORPG's out there can't be qualified as RPGs either.. Because the number one thing in those games are the action and the stat based development..

Imagine Fallout 1/2 without the combat, stats, perks, skills, items. A Fallout where if you want to kill a deathclaw you only need to click on a dialog option like "Kill deathclaw" and then the game kill the thing for you and you get a message describing in great details how your character killed it.

Erlkoenig

a pnp or mud version of Fallouts would be exactly that.

at any event, regardless of how you define RPG, ME is quite pale compared to those better realized CRPGs: choices, stats, perks, loots and etc and only less pale with combat (which is actually better than that of the Witcher).

[QUOTE="Erlkoenig"][QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

[QUOTE="Erlkoenig"]Haven't played Witcher, but it's hard to top the shallowness of Mass Effect's gameplay, so I'm voting Witcher.sSubZerOo

Its not shallow.

Then you must not have played many good computer RPGs. Hell, it's even more shallow than Oblivion. Character customization is close to zero.

What :? Oblivion had no real character customization.. You can choose like 6 or 7 major skills.. Then end up max every one in the game, infact you got really no advantages from majors or minor.. Infact Oblivion would have not changed what so ever, if they didn't give you a skill system to begin with.

Would you be surprised if I told you that it's almost the same in Mass Effect? That later in the game you will have enough points to max 3/4 of the skills?

At least the abilities you gain by spending skill points in Oblivion is somewhat interesting. Here is an example of what you gain in ME, tell me if it isn't so bland:

Rank 1

• Unlocks Overkill
  • Only available when using assault rifles
  • Generates 40% less heat
  • Reduces accuracy cost by 20%
  • Duration: 10 seconds
  • Recharge Time: 45 seconds

• Increases damage by 5%
• Increases accuracy by 10%

• Increases damage by 8%
• Increases accuracy by 14%

• Increases damage by 10%
• Increases accuracy by 17%

• Increases damage by 12%
• Increases accuracy by 20%

• Increases damage by 14%
• Increases accuracy by 22%

• Increases damage by 16%
• Increases accuracy by 24%

• Unlocks Advanced Overkill
  • Only available when using assault rifles
  • Generates 50% less heat
  • Reduces accuracy cost by 30%
  • Duration: 12 seconds
  • Recharge Time: 45 seconds

• Increases damage by 18%
• Increases accuracy by 26%

• Increases damage by 19%
• Increases accuracy by 28%

• Increases damage by 20%
• Increases accuracy by 30%

• Unlocks Master Overkill
  • Only available when using assault rifles
  • Generates 60% less heat
  • Reduces accuracy cost by 40%
  • Duration: 15 seconds
  • Recharge Time: 45 seconds

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Erlkoenig"][QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

[QUOTE="Erlkoenig"]Haven't played Witcher, but it's hard to top the shallowness of Mass Effect's gameplay, so I'm voting Witcher.Erlkoenig

Its not shallow.

Then you must not have played many good computer RPGs. Hell, it's even more shallow than Oblivion. Character customization is close to zero.

What :? Oblivion had no real character customization.. You can choose like 6 or 7 major skills.. Then end up max every one in the game, infact you got really no advantages from majors or minor.. Infact Oblivion would have not changed what so ever, if they didn't give you a skill system to begin with.

Would you be surprised if I told you that it's almost the same in Mass Effect? That later in the game you will have enough points to max 3/4 of the skills?

At least the abilities you gain by spending skill points in Oblivion is somewhat interesting. Here is an example of what you gain in ME, tell me if it isn't so bland:

Rank 1

• Unlocks Overkill
  • Only available when using assault rifles
  • Generates 40% less heat
  • Reduces accuracy cost by 20%
  • Duration: 10 seconds
  • Recharge Time: 45 seconds

• Increases damage by 5%
• Increases accuracy by 10%

• Increases damage by 8%
• Increases accuracy by 14%

• Increases damage by 10%
• Increases accuracy by 17%

• Increases damage by 12%
• Increases accuracy by 20%

• Increases damage by 14%
• Increases accuracy by 22%

• Increases damage by 16%
• Increases accuracy by 24%

• Unlocks Advanced Overkill
  • Only available when using assault rifles
  • Generates 50% less heat
  • Reduces accuracy cost by 30%
  • Duration: 12 seconds
  • Recharge Time: 45 seconds

• Increases damage by 18%
• Increases accuracy by 26%

• Increases damage by 19%
• Increases accuracy by 28%

• Increases damage by 20%
• Increases accuracy by 30%

• Unlocks Master Overkill
  • Only available when using assault rifles
  • Generates 60% less heat
  • Reduces accuracy cost by 40%
  • Duration: 15 seconds
  • Recharge Time: 45 seconds

What point spending is that? Swords and blunts are the exact same basically.. Heavy and light armor are 99% the same in the end.. Unarmed is broken, the magic schools can be spammed constantly to raise.. Infact to actually become powerful in the game you have to do things to your character that would gimp any character in any other game.. To be the best melee fighter, you have to basically put all your majors into things that you will hardly use, such as spell casting.. Top that off you max everything out in the end, and you get no unique abilities in it.. There is no set class abilities..

And at least that gives you a set bonus.. There is no such thing in the skills in Oblivion.. There are no increase ranks in dmg, its just guestimation..

To even say you have options (ignoring ME) in Oblivion is laughable at best.

[QUOTE="Erlkoenig"]

Imagine Fallout 1/2 without the combat, stats, perks, skills, items. A Fallout where if you want to kill a deathclaw you only need to click on a dialog option like "Kill deathclaw" and then the game kill the thing for you and you get a message describing in great details how your character killed it.

teardropmina

a pnp or mud version of Fallouts would be exactly that.

Hmm there are calculations based on dice rolls and stats involved in pnp/mud no?

I suspect that Bioware is paying Gamespot for higher ratings. Only that can explain the 9.0 and mass effect always being on the front page currently availabe/ highest rated list .

tanerb

I don't think Bioware needs to do that. GS reviewers love console games and any game with flashy graphic and cinematic feel will easily get high score from them. ME has all the things appealing to GS reviewers.

[QUOTE="teardropmina"][QUOTE="Erlkoenig"]

Imagine Fallout 1/2 without the combat, stats, perks, skills, items. A Fallout where if you want to kill a deathclaw you only need to click on a dialog option like "Kill deathclaw" and then the game kill the thing for you and you get a message describing in great details how your character killed it.

Erlkoenig

a pnp or mud version of Fallouts would be exactly that.

Hmm there are calculations based on dice rolls and stats involved in pnp/mud no?

yes, and all those will be in the "message describing in great details how your character killed it" no?

What point spending is that? Swords and blunts are the exact same basically.. Heavy and light armor are 99% the same in the end.. Unarmed is broken, the magic schools can be spammed constantly to raise.. Infact to actually become powerful in the game you have to do things to your character that would gimp any character in any other game.. To be the best melee fighter, you have to basically put all your majors into things that you will hardly use, such as spell casting.. Top that off you max everything out in the end, and you get no unique abilities in it.. There is no set class abilities..

To even say you have options (ignoring ME) in Oblivion is laughable at best.

sSubZerOo

It wasn't my intention to defend Oblivion lol. It's garbage. I'm just saying that the skill progession in Oblivion is somewhat interesting. Like when you put points in Marksmanship you get knockback, paralyze effects, etc... whereas in ME it's just % after %.

[QUOTE="teardropmina"][QUOTE="Erlkoenig"]

Imagine Fallout 1/2 without the combat, stats, perks, skills, items. A Fallout where if you want to kill a deathclaw you only need to click on a dialog option like "Kill deathclaw" and then the game kill the thing for you and you get a message describing in great details how your character killed it.

Erlkoenig

a pnp or mud version of Fallouts would be exactly that.

Hmm there are calculations based on dice rolls and stats involved in pnp/mud no?

Yeah exactly.. K guys news flash.. PNP IMAGINATION can not be properly converted to a video game.. In the end you will only have so many options in video games when it comes to dialogue.. In RL PnP you have infinite amounts.. Your able to do anything in the game from climbing a tree to numerous other things..

As it stands the pc conversions can not do this.. They substitute it for a fighting system that is flashy and enjoyable to watch and a item system to go in.. Being a straight dialogue game would be awful in video games because as it stands.. THERE IS ONLY SO MUCH a dev can put into it.. Take alook at KOTOR, it had a well balance of dialogue and combat with a pretty good item system and the like.. In the end a PnP will be superior in every way except for odvious enviroment and graphics which gives them so much draw..

[QUOTE="Erlkoenig"][QUOTE="teardropmina"][QUOTE="Erlkoenig"]

Imagine Fallout 1/2 without the combat, stats, perks, skills, items. A Fallout where if you want to kill a deathclaw you only need to click on a dialog option like "Kill deathclaw" and then the game kill the thing for you and you get a message describing in great details how your character killed it.

teardropmina

a pnp or mud version of Fallouts would be exactly that.

Hmm there are calculations based on dice rolls and stats involved in pnp/mud no?

yes, and all those will be in the "message describing in great details how your character killed it" no?

Yeah, but I said "Imagine Fallout 1/2 without the combat, stats, perks, skills, items" :D

[QUOTE="teardropmina"][QUOTE="Erlkoenig"][QUOTE="teardropmina"][QUOTE="Erlkoenig"]

Imagine Fallout 1/2 without the combat, stats, perks, skills, items. A Fallout where if you want to kill a deathclaw you only need to click on a dialog option like "Kill deathclaw" and then the game kill the thing for you and you get a message describing in great details how your character killed it.

Erlkoenig

a pnp or mud version of Fallouts would be exactly that.

Hmm there are calculations based on dice rolls and stats involved in pnp/mud no?

yes, and all those will be in the "message describing in great details how your character killed it" no?

Yeah, but I said "Imagine Fallout 1/2 without the combat, stats, perks, skills, items" :D

that's the thing about your "message describing in great details how your character killed it" statement. because following what you said, there'll be no *detail* there'll only be "Hit; Deathclaw: Dead"

[QUOTE="Erlkoenig"][QUOTE="teardropmina"][QUOTE="Erlkoenig"]

Imagine Fallout 1/2 without the combat, stats, perks, skills, items. A Fallout where if you want to kill a deathclaw you only need to click on a dialog option like "Kill deathclaw" and then the game kill the thing for you and you get a message describing in great details how your character killed it.

teardropmina

a pnp or mud version of Fallouts would be exactly that.

Hmm there are calculations based on dice rolls and stats involved in pnp/mud no?

yes, and all those will be in the "message describing in great details how your character killed it" no?

Except there is stat based combat.. Stats are huge in DnD.. You have to be lieing to your self if you don't think so.. 80% of the Players hand book is SPECIFICALLY on that.. And I can imagine what ever my character does in combat on how he finishs a perosn off etc.. How he greets a person etc etc.. A Video game can't do this, a video game is limited.. There is no game to date that can even remotely come close to how indepth the pnp games are...

These games are huge in dialogue odviously and other things.. Also would like to point out that the grand daddy of all PnP, DnD also began the whole Dungeon Crawl thing.. Infact some of its most famous thigns int he game like Escape from the temple of elemental evil, is strictly a dungeon crawl, with combat.. Yet again I think all rpgs should have a healthy balance of both, I love deep dialogue and moral choices and then I like stratgic combat involving stats and items..

that's the thing about your "message describing in great details how your character killed it" statement. because following what you said, there'll be no *detail* there'll only be "Hit; Deathclaw: Dead" teardropmina

I was thinking along the line of "You pulled out your pistol and shot the deathclaw twice in the torso. The thing screamed in pain and charged at you, not aware of Sulik several feet away. Sulik struck at its legs and it smashed its head in with his sledgeahmmer after it fell." :P

[QUOTE="teardropmina"]that's the thing about your "message describing in great details how your character killed it" statement. because following what you said, there'll be no *detail* there'll only be "Hit; Deathclaw: Dead" Erlkoenig

I was thinking along the line of "You pulled out your pistol and shot the deathclaw twice in the torso. The thing screamed in pain and charged at you, not aware of Sulik several feet away. Sulik struck at its legs and it smashed its head in with his sledgeahmmer after it fell." :P

got you...well, PC game graphic will take care of those things. Whenever I think about text message in RPG, I'd think it's about combat stats. no problem.

[QUOTE="teardropmina"]

yes, and all those will be in the "message describing in great details how your character killed it" no?

sSubZerOo

Yeah exactly.. K guys news flash.. PNP IMAGINATION can not be properly converted to a video game.. In the end you will only have so many options in video games when it comes to dialogue.. In RL PnP you have infinite amounts.. Your able to do anything in the game from climbing a tree to numerous other things..

As it stands the pc conversions can not do this.. They substitute it for a fighting system that is flashy and enjoyable to watch and a item system to go in.. Being a straight dialogue game would be awful in video games because as it stands.. THERE IS ONLY SO MUCH a dev can put into it.. Take alook at KOTOR, it had a well balance of dialogue and combat with a pretty good item system and the like.. In the end a PnP will be superior in every way except for odvious enviroment and graphics which gives them so much draw..
sSubZerOo