Oblivion bad?

The Basic Things Wrong with Oblivion

(This is an analysis of vanilla oblivion and vanilla oblivion only)

Oblivion is labeled as an RPG game. As an RPG the game is absolutely crap. Why? You ask? Because the basic fundamentals of an RPG are either pretty much non-existent in oblivion or just so dumbed down to the point of being broken. An RPG is supposed to have a focus on a story as well as characters, correct? Oblivion is sorely lacking in this area. I think everyone, even oblivion fans, know that the story within oblivion is very, very weak. The game does next to nothing to actually pull you into the story or even care about what happens. Hell, there aren't even very large incentives(Items, etc) that even attempt to pull you into the game. You're pretty much better off doing guild quests and the like. Did I even get into the characters and how they're completely forgettable? Not only do the various important NPC's completely lack any sort of defining characteristic that makes you remember of draw you to them, they seem pretty much devoid of emotion as well.(This would be more a fault on the voice actors) The attempted portrayal of fear, anger, etc. is extremely poor in comparison to other excellent RPG's(NWN, NWN2, BG 1 and 2, etc.) A great example of this poor portrayal is when you get to your first oblivion gate and a wood elf(I believe) runs up to you and starts telling you to run away. Everything from the character animations to the voice acting itself, shows a terrible portrayal of fear.

Bad story/characters? Check

What's the next thing that defines RPG's? Leveling and quests right? The former is where oblivion completely and utterly fails in, in pretty much every conceivable way. The leveling system in oblivion complete defeats the whole purpose of a leveling system in any RPG. By having all monsters level with you, the game not only becomes incredibly easy, but the amount of immersiveness, significantly drops when you get to the later levels and realize that a meager highwayman that used to have leather armor and a simple steel shortsword, now suddenly has daedric armor. If you really wanted to, you could beat the game using only your fists because of this ridiculous system. Quests on the other hand is something that oblivion actually does well, that is the quest interface. The game makes it easy for you to pick out existing quests very easily and find out where they are on your map. The actual quests on the other hand, while definitely no where near bad, in comparison to other RPG's it is lacking somewhat in that, you have no real choice in how to handle a quest. It's either an accept or deny format, while many other great RPG's give you much more depth in how you go around doing your quests(You could for example finish a quest, and then extort money from the NPC that gave you said quest, thus changing the original deal, or you could even get the quest info from the NPC, kill said NPC, and then loot his/her body for the item(s) that he/she said would give to you if you finished the quest) Oblivion uses a very straightforward and strictly linear approach to questing, limiting the amount of freedom you have.

Broken leveling system? Check.

Now the last thing that makes up an RPG is the immersiveness of its world, how you can feel apart of it, even though it's just a videogame. Oblivion is a little in between good and bad in this category, leaning toward bad. Although most oblivion fans always use the excuse "but oblivions world is amazing" to defend the game, that statement hold little water. Sure Oblivion's world is nice looking, I won't deny that, but damn, does the world scream generic all over itself. EVERYTHING looks the same. In comparison to most other RPG's and even oblivions predecessor, morrowind, oblivions world is bland. Dungeons look the same, oblivion gates look the same, most of the landscape looks the save. The only thing that's exempt from this are the cities of oblivion, which do have distinct characteristics, but once again in comparison to its predecessor, it's still lacking. (Just watch the morrowind video review/preview to see how unique morrowinds different cities/landscapes are) The NPC's, while different, lose that feeling somewhat when you talk to them and realize that it's the same two or three voice actors doing all of the NPC voices, with some voices that were for a specific NPC type(A young woman) being applied to another NPC type(An old beggar woman) depending on what conversation you engage in. This lack of immersiveness is what really kills oblivion from being a good RPG, as it pretty much affects the other categories I talked about in the above paragraphs.

Lacking immersiveness? Check.

Now as an RPG oblivion pretty much fails on all front. Anyone can see this. Though an ew arguments by oblvion fans are now "Well if you look at the game as an action adventure then its amazing" I find this statement very amusing because as an action adventure, the game is even worse!

What are the things that make up an action adventure game? Action? right? Meaning that the combat system has to be a strong point correct? Well not in oblivions case, as the combat component in oblivion when compared to action RPG's is downright horrible. There are quick attacks, and of course heavy attacks. The difference between the two is that you hold the LMB to do a heavy and click it to do a light. That's it. The only thing oblivion has above morrowinds combat system(Morrowinds combat system was universally panned, BTW for being way too simplistic, and basically being a clickfest)is that its animations are MUCH better than morrowinds and its inclusion of two additional heavy strikes(Depending on what directional button you press when holding the LMB). Of course this looks good , but as for gameplay it changes nothing. Instead of grinding down to a clickfest like morrowind, Oblivion grinds down to a glorified clickfest. Even Dark messiah has a better combat system and that game was panned for its combat being too simplistic as well.

Bad combat system? Check.

Not only does oblivion fail as an RPG, it fails as an action adventure game as well. Mind you when I say fail, I don't mean that the game is absolutely horrible, it's just that there are much better alternatives if you're looking for a quality RPG. The things I said in this post are simply only some of many problems with the game. I could talk about the crappy AI or the horrible oblivion gates, but of course, that's for another time.

yeah, i hate oblivion's story. totally boring. and the characters are terrible ugly.

well the oblivion world is pretty and huge.

In addition to the posts talking about various aspects of oblivion, the UI is at best average, and honestly in my opinion one of the worst ever designed for PC. The main problem lies in the fact that its a multiplatform game, so the UI is really designed due to limitations on the console. Morrowind had some of the same problems, but the fact that bethsoft did not create a PC interface for oblivion was one of the worst things about the game imo.

Oblivion is well worth it if you play on PC with at least a few select mods

Most important, OOO. Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul. Trust me, don't play the game without this one. This makes the levels of creatures actually MEAN something, giving different locations different difficulties, and vastly enhancing the scope of the game. OOO is an absolute must have mod.

Also, combat moves, timed block and soforth make the combat really fun and tactical.

Finally, I suggest S.P.A.M. levelling system, makes you gain stats each level based on your character class instead of whatever skills you used since the last levelup (a retarded system to have originally). So instead of having to cast 500 summon skeleton spells to make sure you get 5 to intelligence that level, if you are a mage class, you will always get 5int 5will 2str 2end and soforth.

Thank god for the modding community, as I feel really bad for people who had to play this on xbox with no OOO, no extra content whatsoever.

It's interesting to look at the marks given by Gamespot to a few popular RPGs:

Oblivion: 9.3

Neverwinter Nights: 9.2

Baldur's Gate 2: 9.2

Planescape - Torment: 9.0

Fallout 2: 8.8

Morrowind: 8.7

One would think that these marks were given by throwing dice; it really questions the reviewers' competence and/or editorial independance. And I don't think this is just a matter of personal tastes. IMHO Oblivion should be around 7.

As others have said. The main problem with Oblivion is that they had to dumb it down enough for the kiddies on the xbox so they could play it with a joystick.

therealFrek

hmmm explainwhy Morrowind wasn't "dumbed down" then since it came out on pc and Xbox?

Trusth is the devs made it more accessable because a bunch of people complained that Morrowind was too hard and now we have a diet RPG

Barely an RPG? How much more of an RPG does it need to be? Does it need a hit-miss combat system like Morrowind? Oooo yeah, that'd be fun...i'm a foot away from you and yet I can't seem to strike you with this gigantic hammer...oh well, at least it's RPG-ish! Honestly, I like Oblivion the way it is. All it needed was not-so-ugly females, better characters, and a more inventive storyline...but aside from that it's a helluva good time. Great for exploration.KentTalbert

Forget that I could be a dumb Orc that never casts a spell the whole game yet become arch mage of the mages guild. That the game tells you to pick a class at the beginning but by the end you're a jack of all trades. That the world looks like Cabella's Big Game hunter with a few of the most typical creatures thrown in... less weapons, spells, items, talents than the game before it...very linear quests... almost anyone that plays the game experiences the same things... no reason for exploration...

yeah all it needed was morrowind's combat

Morrowind was very much dumbed down compared to Daggerfall.Plomdidom

and morrowind sold more... which is the purpose of a business.

you can make the most in depth RPG you want where you have to eat three meals a day and drink a gallon of fresh water every so often while taking care of kids and goingto the bathroom every so often... but if itappeals to only a niche set of gamers... why keep it the same?

I think Morrowind was the perfect mix between the two but they went ahead and made Oblivion simple and also made a killing off of it. so who knows where they are going next.

...Even the graphics surprisingly lack style.Plomdidom

And you lack a good taste in games.

I suggest you try Morrowind and its two expansions instead. At least with Morrowind you get a *fun* game that also happens to be a true RPG.
foxhound_fox

Wow i strongly disagree. The only things I liked in Morrowind was: exploring and well... exploring. The combat on the game is the most pathetic combat system I have ever come across, voice-actors are non-existent and the quests suck like heck.I also don't see how Morrowind's RPG system is any better than Oblivion's.

It's not really a matter of taste; I, as many other people, just like to see a bit of creativity, of which Oblivion does not show an ounce. Its an "objective" fact that you won't see many creatures, buildings or landscape types in Oblivion that you haven't seen in other games before.

Take the temples in Oblivion for instance, they're all identical replicas of a typical real-life Gothic cathedral, because they couldn't come up with an original design idea. That'sthe main difference between Morrowind and Oblivion.

Alright, some comments in here I don't quite understand. Yeah, I do like Oblivion, but I'll try not be be biased for people whom do not like it.

Some people said its not open-ended, its free roaming. I am pretty sure I have heard alot of people say GTA 3, Stalker etc be "open ended". I see the point how it does not "effect" the game world, but I don't think the definition is correct. All the soliders wanna kill if you do something illegal? That effets the game. Killing some NPCs won't let quests allowed to be done, that affects the game..

People saying how it needs mods n such, are people who are USED to playing oblivion with the mods. Many people play the game for consoles without mods. Its us, thePC gamers after getting the mods, could never go back to the regular oblvion. Not to mention the mod community for obilvion is huge.

Oblivion is a rpg, and really is very story driven. Its a twitcch based rpg, which some people don't like. It has a huge amount of story, I don't follow how people say it isn't. Alot of people who play rpg's enjoy the fighting style I guess, where as this collides with it. No matter what startegy a game goes for, someonme isn't pleased. The fact of the matter is oblivion has MANY things to do in it, but people have played in vigously.

Oblivion is also a game that is actually several years old now, and is being compared with todays games. Well first off all, the fact that a game several years old isbeing directly compared with other rpgs of today showhow well it has stood through the last couple years.

If you have never played oblivion at all, touched or seen it, you'll likely like it. Most people do,. It gets old, ALL games get old. All games do., but for the gameplay oblivion offers, if you liek it, oblivion offers huge amounts of it. Its glicthes arn't that bad, as people tend to strike games harshly that glitch on there computers, when it may not be happenign to other people at all.

Try playing it at a friends, it has got tones of playability, and is really a good gam,e. It won rpg of the year for a reason, was slected most addictivee game at the Video game award. It was rated best rpg atE3also, and why do you think people are making mods for it? becuz they liek it obviously.

Dudue, EVERY GAME created, has people in forums bashing it. Every single game. Every single game. check reviews, check majority of what people have to say, but ultimatel;y you have to try it out for yourself.

Oblivion is also a game that is actually several years old now, and is being compared with todays games. Well first off all, the fact that a game several years old isbeing directly compared with other rpgs of today showhow well it has stood through the last couple years.

the-wiz

It's actually still only about a year and half old at this point. Not saying that to debunk your point, it's just that "several years" is a bit of an overstatement.

[QUOTE="the-wiz"]

Oblivion is also a game that is actually several years old now, and is being compared with todays games. Well first off all, the fact that a game several years old isbeing directly compared with other rpgs of today showhow well it has stood through the last couple years.

JP_Russell

It's actually still only about a year and half old at this point. Not saying that to debunk your point, it's just that "several years" is a bit of an overstatement.

And the sheer fact that most games that its been compared to are years upon years older than oblivion (BG2 and morrowind being perfect examples)

[QUOTE="therealFrek"]

As others have said. The main problem with Oblivion is that they had to dumb it down enough for the kiddies on the xbox so they could play it with a joystick.

smerlus

hmmm explainwhy Morrowind wasn't "dumbed down" then since it came out on pc and Xbox?

Trusth is the devs made it more accessable because a bunch of people complained that Morrowind was too hard and now we have a diet RPG

yeah, the national board of education should dumb down the public school's material because some kids find it too hard... then we'll welcome the second stone age as the following generations pass by.

Indeed, that's what game developers seem to be doing as of late. Hence the dumbing down of video and computer games

I've always thought that was a reviewer's job to point into a proper direction (movie reviewers are not nearly as forgiving, btw).... hmmm, guess I was wrong. a computer game reviewer has absoulutely zero responsibility whatsoever

I think some of you are being too hard on Oblivion, it's a very good FPS-RPG hybrid. And the whole teleportation system is OPTIONAL, though I don't see much difference between that system and the silt-striders...except Oblivions system is, well, easier. I honestly don't mind some easiness in a game, because in RPGs it is often more fun that way for me. Oblivion is a fantastic RPG for casual gamers, though it clearly leaves the hardcore wanting more... and as for this game being for 18 year olds and younger...grow up. The game recieved excellent reviews from gamers and critics, so you obviously expected something from Oblivion that it did not contain. Just accept it for what it is, or play your hardcore RPG games.

The level system, simplifications, and downgrade of choices on of what was an unique world ruined everything for me. But it can still be fun... with mods that completely change the game.

It's like a MMO converted to single-player. decent gamekpsting

And MMORPGs have the worst gameplay outof anything so there you go! :D And guess what, you don't get to see anyone ever to help you bare through it! Whenever you see a NPC old lady beggar you will go right back into WoW and donate all your money to people who beg for gold online. True story! Trust me, you will miss such intelligent. (The beggars don't even follow you everywhere or get angry when you ignore them! And have very limited voices.)

as a rpg it is a very poor one. it has a pretty lame story, hpractically no options or effect of your action ( for ex you can join opposing guilds aand rise in ranks in both) and so on.

that said it could be termed as a good hack n slash rpg only if the levelling system was not broken. it created problems like all the enimies levelled with you or enemies levelled even of you put skills in non combat options ans stuff. after you install the mods and remove these scaling problems you have a good hack n slash rpg

as a rpg it is a very poor one. it has a pretty lame story, hpractically no options or effect of your action ( for ex you can join opposing guilds aand rise in ranks in both) and so on.

that said it could be termed as a good hack n slash rpg only if the levelling system was not broken. it created problems like all the enimies levelled with you or enemies levelled even of you put skills in non combat options ans stuff. after you install the mods and remove these scaling problems you have a good hack n slash rpg

naval

[QUOTE="naval"]

as a rpg it is a very poor one. it has a pretty lame story, hpractically no options or effect of your action ( for ex you can join opposing guilds aand rise in ranks in both) and so on.

that said it could be termed as a good hack n slash rpg only if the levelling system was not broken. it created problems like all the enimies levelled with you or enemies levelled even of you put skills in non combat options ans stuff. after you install the mods and remove these scaling problems you have a good hack n slash rpg

KentTelbert

besides the fact that scaled levelling takes a lot out of the game, it is broken in few areas. for ex a character not focussed on combat would find it difficult to progress because enemies levelled much higher or overall a thief has better chances of becoming a fighter than a actual fighter

What I was saying about under-18s is related to the style of the posts and my own experience. It's ironic that I'd be told to grow up.

People who criticise the game tend to have a more structured, literate and argumented approach, as opposed to the "What r u talking about, the game is great!!!!" kind of comments you'd normally get from a 14-year old. Sorry if it comes across as patronising, it's not intended to be; just a caricature. As an additional point, the younger players have naturally less references to compare the new games to.

I probably would have liked that kind of action game with flashy graphics myself when I was 15, playing games like Sonic the Hedgehog on my Sega Megadrive, but at this stage in my life (not that I'm elderly or anything) I enjoy a bit of subtlety in a video game. Which is why I only play RPGs and why I find Oblivion a tedium. And again, I'm sure that there are far better FPSs around for people who prefer that, made by people who specialise in that genre.