Piracy hurting PC games market

I remember saying in one the threads that piracy is killing the PC market and many people said that was not the problem. It is becomign more and more difficult for developers to make money on PC games and i think the main problem is piracy.

At an early session Friday, id Software CEO Todd Hollenshead gave a lecture on the problems of piracy on the internet. During his speech, Hollenshead revealed that, although they are still primarily a PC developer, id Software had begun to look at console game releases as a way to financially combat piracy.

"Piracy has pushed id as being multiplatform," Hollenshead said, noting that the current project Enemy Territory: Quake Wars is being scheduled for release on PC, Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. Hollenshead's rationale is that console piracy is, by a large factor, minimal relative to the rampant PC piracy.

Link

id Software has been producing weak games lately and they try to blame piracy for their lack of cash flow.:roll: Is piracy a problem, of course, but for id to blame stealing when the fact is that they are making average shooters is lame. I am a fan of id and hope they will try this trend around. If Quake Wars is yet another average shooter, it will not sell well on the P.C. or any console.roulettethedog

i cant go to my dad n tell him " hey i want this new awesome game " n he will just get it for me, no freakin way.... [....] so we NEED pirated games...without em we'll be playin board n card games online for the rest of our lifes....n guess how lame that is...g4m3add1ct

Ya, the poor developers will only make 300 million off a game that cost them 50 million to develop/market instead of the 310 million they would make if people didnt pirate the games.

Piracy is a lame excuse so that developers feel justified in abandoning the PC market.  Why did id say this?  Cuz Wolfenstein 2 (the sequal to perhaps the father of the FPS genre) is coming out on console only.  Anyone else feel betrayed?

Its like youre about to break up with youre girlfriend cuz she is too fat, then finding out she slept with your best friend before you even hooked up with her.  Now you have an excuse, albeit unreasonable, to break up with her.  Instead of being the jerk who broke up with poor poor Fatty Alice, youre now poor poor Bill who justifiably broke up with the cheating whore Alice.

[QUOTE="g4m3add1ct"] i cant go to my dad n tell him " hey i want this new awesome game " n he will just get it for me, no freakin way.... [....] so we NEED pirated games...without em we'll be playin board n card games online for the rest of our lifes....n guess how lame that is...A-S_FM

Ya, I remember growing up.  I was lucky to get four games a year.  The rest of the time I was doing kid stuff; you know, baseball, soccer, swimming, harassing cootie-infested girls, and providing slave-labor for my parents by raking leaves and other stuff.

By the way, how does your dad not notice the computer is on for the hours and hours required to download a full game?

u know man.....am from egypt, and down here to buy a new PC game would cost me abt 250-350 L.E ( egyptian currency), am not a rich brat, i cant go to my dad n tell him " hey i want this new awesome game " n he will just get it for me, no freakin way....for americans n europians i think its pretty cheap of them to get pirated game, cuz i think 50 bucks or 50 euros cant be a problem to them, but to thirld world countries money can be a gr8 obstacle to play games, so we NEED pirated games...without em we'll be playin board n card games online for the rest of our lifes....n guess how lame that is...g4m3add1ct

Sure, piracy is a problem but isn't that why they overcharge us in the first place?

Piracy is wrong, but its also being used as a scapegoat for the problems with PC games. Mostly that developers and publishers are rushing out crappy games that no one wants to put 50 bucks down on because they didn't want to spend the extra 2-3 months polishing there games.

How are we supposed to judge if we want to buy PC games anymore? Some developers don't even release demos, if they do they are so short, buggy, and void... you can't get a faithful opinion on it. Lets face it, we buy games on word of mouth or from borrowing it(which is also a form of piracy) from a friend. We effectivly have the choice to either become pirates or just blindly spend 50 bucks a game.

So its kinda insane that was actaully have to pirate games to see if we want to buy them. The industry really needs to figure out a better way to show off its game more than what they are doing now.


godofratz

[QUOTE="godofratz"]Sure, piracy is a problem but isn't that why they overcharge us in the first place?

Piracy is wrong, but its also being used as a scapegoat for the problems with PC games. Mostly that developers and publishers are rushing out crappy games that no one wants to put 50 bucks down on because they didn't want to spend the extra 2-3 months polishing there games.

How are we supposed to judge if we want to buy PC games anymore? Some developers don't even release demos, if they do they are so short, buggy, and void... you can't get a faithful opinion on it. Lets face it, we buy games on word of mouth or from borrowing it(which is also a form of piracy) from a friend. We effectivly have the choice to either become pirates or just blindly spend 50 bucks a game.

So its kinda insane that was actaully have to pirate games to see if we want to buy them. The industry really needs to figure out a better way to show off its game more than what they are doing now.


Shegevara

Good point, I only buy top line games that  I feel deserve my money for the effort they put in to make something special. The rest I pirate and if I couldn't do that I simply wouldn't play them.

I reckon Microsoft will single handily beat piracy with Xbox/Windows Live.

Xbox Live is awesome and I reckon Vista's new Windows Live with features such as multiplayer achievements and friends list etc will make pirating games suck when everybody's using live and all you got is SP.
SavageTrickster

[QUOTE="SavageTrickster"]I reckon Microsoft will single handily beat piracy with Xbox/Windows Live.

Xbox Live is awesome and I reckon Vista's new Windows Live with features such as multiplayer achievements and friends list etc will make pirating games suck when everybody's using live and all you got is SP.
zayl99

right, so id is moving to consoles because of piracy and not because it's been totally outshined by valve, crytek and epic

right?

yeah, though, i'm strongly anti-piracy, i've (immorally) downloaded one game in my life - vice city - i downloaded it because there wasn't a demo and i wanted to know it'd run on my pc, it did, and i bought the game the next day

that aside, i strongly oppose piracy - but asking pirates to stop, telling them they're damaging the industry - it's like telling a smoker he's giving himself cancer - the reply is always so what?
A-S_FM

Had a pirated game once - it did not work

the fact that id can't hold a candle to other devs these days is one problem.  piracy is a whole 'nother beast in itself.  although loosely related, they really are two separate problems.  i understand that they are tired of the double-whammy and want to focus on one problem (creating games).  let's stop blurring two issues into one.

the act of theft has been boiled down into a few mouse clicks.  this "my acts aren't harming anybody, it's the devs fault for making sub-par games" attitude among us is what's driving piracy.  driving devs away from pc.

300 million?  those numbers only appy to WoW.  you tell that to the devs of s.t.a.l.k.e.r. who'd be happy to see 10 million (250,000 copies sold).  and that ain't all profit.

to the man who said that in his country the games are really expensive

well, that will not be ur only problem ,ur main problem will be that u will

not find most of the intersting games sold in ur country ,most of games sold there

will be like "need for speed" and "fifa" series,things like that ,so u will have to go

and buy it online which will cost u even more

all im sayin is that "even so most of the pirates are not from the third world countries,i dont

even think they would care"

I think piracy problem is made to look worse than it really is as an excuse. It's just an additional expense to be figured into the account books. Who burns games? Mostly kids who wouldn't be able to buy them anyway. If they can't buy games, can they buy crazy gaming rigs to run top of the line games? No. Then what games are burned? Mostly 3-4 year old titles, which have already sold their share anyway. I very much doubt piracy is that much of a factor in the PC market. High hardware cost and poor optimization seem to me much heavier.

And as for the industry's effort to combat it... How about Gamestop buying out EB Games and stopping PC game trading? Great, now I can buy HL2 Episode One for 20 bucks, play it for exactly 4 hours, then have it sitting on my shelf for ten years. Joy. Console games are traded.Why not PC games? I bet that would help with piracy some.

If I didnt get to download games, then how would I know which games were a piece of trash and a waste of money?! For instance, Neverwinter Nights 2.biowulf

I think piracy problem is made to look worse than it really is as an excuse. It's just an additional expense to be figured into the account books. Who burns games? Mostly kids who wouldn't be able to buy them anyway. If they can't buy games, can they buy crazy gaming rigs to run top of the line games? No. Then what games are burned? Mostly 3-4 year old titles, which have already sold their share anyway. I very much doubt piracy is that much of a factor in the PC market. High hardware cost and poor optimization seem to me much heavier.

And as for the industry's effort to combat it... How about Gamestop buying out EB Games and stopping PC game trading? Great, now I can buy HL2 Episode One for 20 bucks, play it for exactly 4 hours, then have it sitting on my shelf for ten years. Joy. Console games are traded.Why not PC games? I bet that would help with piracy some.

TryDaBeardON

[QUOTE="Samulies"]then stop burning games everyone. if we buy them, devs get more money. we get better games. deal.Krall

I don't quite agree with you there Krall. Piracy is more widespread than ever because everyone with a broadband connection can (and does) it easily these days. The fact that most of the software in counties like China or Russia is illegal does not really contribute since that has always been the case.

The price of PC games has remained virtually unchanged for the past 15 years so that's not a factor. A lot of people are using pirated software even though they have more than enough money to buy them. But why would you go out and spend money on something you can easily get for free without moving a step?

PC gamers being more demanding? The idea that console gamers are mostly young teens is also wrong. The typical console gamer is in their twenties and grew up with video games.

Piracy is a factor but not the main one. The real factor is that the development costs for developing games has increased exponentially over the last decade. The only way to cover the costs is to sell more games and it's easier to do so with console games because they have a higher installed user base.

I think that the more games come out, the harder the companys will have to push for it. The only way they'll do it is by restricting single player with a used CD key or something... creating an account with CD keys on that all companies use would be a good one... then making people sign in to play single player would prevent piracy

I think that the more games come out, the harder the companys will have to push for it. The only way they'll do it is by restricting single player with a used CD key or something... creating an account with CD keys on that all companies use would be a good one... then making people sign in to play single player would prevent piracy

pepperman33

id Software has been producing weak games lately and they try to blame piracy for their lack of cash flow.:roll: Is piracy a problem, of course, but for id to blame stealing when the fact is that they are making average shooters is lame. I am a fan of id and hope they will try this trend around. If Quake Wars is yet another average shooter, it will not sell well on the P.C. or any console.roulettethedog

Ya, the poor developers will only make 300 million off a game that cost them 50 million to develop/market instead of the 310 million they would make if people didnt pirate the games.

Piracy is a lame excuse so that developers feel justified in abandoning the PC market. Why did id say this? Cuz Wolfenstein 2 (the sequal to perhaps the father of the FPS genre) is coming out on console only. Anyone else feel betrayed?

Its like youre about to break up with youre girlfriend cuz she is too fat, then finding out she slept with your best friend before you even hooked up with her. Now you have an excuse, albeit unreasonable, to break up with her. Instead of being the jerk who broke up with poor poor Fatty Alice, youre now poor poor Bill who justifiably broke up with the cheating whore Alice.

mrbojangles25

I also hate pirates!

I also hate that the mods on these froums allow so much of it to go on.

I beleive any forum poster who supports or advocates piracy should be banned permenatly! But the only thing that happens is the post is locked or deleted.

Piracy hurts us all..

The revenue the game makers would make is lost so they have less to make another. Or they move to consoles to lessen the loss.

It hurts " Honest" PC gamers because games cost more, we get less of them..and we have to deal with Secur-Rom and other anit-piracy crap!

PC games didn't even break a billion dollars last year in sales....while consoles did almost 5 billion!

Is it any wonder PC gamers are hurting? And why game makers are moving to consoles!

Pirates are driviing the PC market out of business! For every game sold there are 2 or more illegal copies of it! Imagine the games that could be made with that money!

So what if you think game makers make enough money already? So what! So do banks... but I don't see any of you robbing them! Thats why they are in business...to make money!

Do you really want to waste all that money you spend on upgrading your rig because there is suddenly no more games to play on it?

If you see anyone talking about or advoacating piracy...report it to the mods. Lets get them out of here!

Pirates think..." Oh..it's onlly 1 or 2 games...they won't miss that" But then so does every other pirate...and the next thing you know you're talking millions of games.

Also many think " They'll never catch me or even find out!" Maybe not...then again maybe they will! The aninmity of the internet gives them that belief. And for the most part....Unfortunately... they are correct! Hopefully that will change someday and the " casual" pirate will realize how much trouble that they can get into.

Anything above 50 dollars is considered larceny...that's the average price of a game nowadays! Do you want that on your record....imagine the jobs you'll get..."Do you want fries with that?' LOL!!!

Piracy is illegal...it is also immoral ( I just had a debate with a bunch of losers about this on another post)

You can not justify it by " I'll D/L it and if I like it...then I'll buy it!" That is illegal.

Someone stated it is only illegal to upload it...not to dowload it. But you are condoning it because you just D/Led an illegal upload. In fact you are an accessory after the fact! And by law can be charged with the same crime!

I hate pirates! You are stealing from me...so don't let me find you. I will also report any post that even hints at piracy! The rest of you need to do this also...get the mods so worked up that they will just start banning them!

There is no excuse for torrenting/pirating games....nothing you can say can make me or any other "Honest" PC gamer make it allright.

I wasn't always a goody two shoe...I did time. But I also learned a lesson that stealing...even if you think the person wouldn't miss it...always hurts someone. You wouldn't want someone stealing from you...would you?

I didn't think so...

I also hate pirates!

I also hate that the mods on these froums allow so much of it to go on.

I beleive any forum poster who supports or advocates piracy should be banned permenatly! But the only thing that happens is the post is locked or deleted.

Piracy hurts us all..

The revenue the game makers would make is lost so they have less to make another. Or they move to consoles to lessen the loss.

It hurts " Honest" PC gamers because games cost more, we get less of them..and we have to deal with Secur-Rom and other anit-piracy crap!

PC games didn't even break a billion dollars last year in sales....while consoles did almost 5 billion!

Is it any wonder PC gamers are hurting? And why game makers are moving to consoles!

Pirates are driviing the PC market out of business! For every game sold there are 2 or more illegal copies of it! Imagine the games that could be made with that money!

So what if you think game makers make enough money already? So what! So do banks... but I don't see any of you robbing them! Thats why they are in business...to make money!

Do you really want to waste all that money you spend on upgrading your rig because there is suddenly no more games to play on it?

If you see anyone talking about or advoacating piracy...report it to the mods. Lets get them out of here!

Pirates think..." Oh..it's onlly 1 or 2 games...they won't miss that" But then so does every other pirate...and the next thing you know you're talking millions of games.

Also many think " They'll never catch me or even find out!" Maybe not...then again maybe they will! The aninmity of the internet gives them that belief. And for the most part....Unfortunately... they are correct! Hopefully that will change someday and the " casual" pirate will realize how much trouble that they can get into.

Anything above 50 dollars is considered larceny...that's the average price of a game nowadays! Do you want that on your record....imagine the jobs you'll get..."Do you want fries with that?' LOL!!!

Piracy is illegal...it is also immoral ( I just had a debate with a bunch of losers about this on another post)

You can not justify it by " I'll D/L it and if I like it...then I'll buy it!" That is illegal.

Someone stated it is only illegal to upload it...not to dowload it. But you are condoning it because you just D/Led an illegal upload. In fact you are an accessory after the fact! And by law can be charged with the same crime!

I hate pirates! You are stealing from me...so don't let me find you. I will also report any post that even hints at piracy! The rest of you need to do this also...get the mods so worked up that they will just start banning them!

There is no excuse for torrenting/pirating games....nothing you can say can make me or any other "Honest" PC gamer make it allright.

I wasn't always a goody two shoe...I did time. But I also learned a lesson that stealing...even if you think the person wouldn't miss it...always hurts someone. You wouldn't want someone stealing from you...would you?

I didn't think so...

OgreB

For every game sold 2 pirated copies are made?

Are you honestly suggesting that piracy distributes more games than it sells?  I can see that internationally, but definately not in any first-world type countries like Western Europe, Canada, UK, United States, etc.

[QUOTE="godofratz"]Sure, piracy is a problem but isn't that why they overcharge us in the first place?

Piracy is wrong, but its also being used as a scapegoat for the problems with PC games. Mostly that developers and publishers are rushing out crappy games that no one wants to put 50 bucks down on because they didn't want to spend the extra 2-3 months polishing there games.

How are we supposed to judge if we want to buy PC games anymore? Some developers don't even release demos, if they do they are so short, buggy, and void... you can't get a faithful opinion on it. Lets face it, we buy games on word of mouth or from borrowing it(which is also a form of piracy) from a friend. We effectivly have the choice to either become pirates or just blindly spend 50 bucks a game.

So its kinda insane that was actaully have to pirate games to see if we want to buy them. The industry really needs to figure out a better way to show off its game more than what they are doing now.


Shegevara

Your arguement is false.  You are still getting to play the game.  Doesn't matter if you would of bought it or not.  You are getting to play it.  You must of wanted to play it if you went through the time and effort to download it and burn it and install it and finally crack it.  Sorry, you fail in your arguement.

Why do you think LucasArts is dumping their PC division? With consoles, it's exponentially harder to pirate games, because it involves extreme soldering skill to get the chips in there, and they can quickly be worked around because everyone has the same hardware With PCs, it's harder and harder because there are so many potential setups and new exploits that can be done in software Why did Battlefield sell 2 million? Because it's useless without the online segment, so they can check your key every time you log on. They're right, single player is on the way out on PCs. Consoles is where it's at because of the controlled environment to protect their games. Everytime SafeDisc or SecuROM changes, how many minutes does it take to crack the new one? On a console, it takes weeks or months for them to develop a new chip.Kodai_kun

If LucasArts was closing its PC division, why would they have just announced Mercenaries 2 for the PC as well as the consoles?

Games for the PC need to be a little friendlier to the buyer.  I go out and buy a game and install it only to find out it has all sorts of other stuff installing to stop me from copying it.  Even though my intent is to play it.  I support companies like Stardock that release their games sans protection.  They need to know that we appreciate what they are doing. 

And I would say that the way it will work in the future is that games will go console first and then PC to squeeze some extra cash out of the title.

[QUOTE="Krall"][QUOTE="Samulies"]then stop burning games everyone. if we buy them, devs get more money. we get better games. deal.Gog

I don't quite agree with you there Krall. Piracy is more widespread than ever because everyone with a broadband connection can (and does) it easily these days. The fact that most of the software in counties like China or Russia is illegal does not really contribute since that has always been the case.

The price of PC games has remained virtually unchanged for the past 15 years so that's not a factor. A lot of people are using pirated software even though they have more than enough money to buy them. But why would you go out and spend money on something you can easily get for free without moving a step?

PC gamers being more demanding? The idea that console gamers are mostly young teens is also wrong. The typical console gamer is in their twenties and grew up with video games.

Piracy is a factor but not the main one. The real factor is that the development costs for developing games has increased exponentially over the last decade. The only way to cover the costs is to sell more games and it's easier to do so with console games because they have a higher installed user base.