PS3 or bluray player?

So i'm thinking og getting a bluray player but the question is if it's worth to buy a bluray player only or g ofor the ps3? danish-death

If you play video games at all, get the PS3. It has the best available Blu-Ray hardware, which runs about $500 to $600 in a stand alone player. Plus you can use the PS3 to store videos, pictures, music. It can virtually become your all-in-one media hub. Can't do any of that on just a player.jshaas

I agree with this post except it all comes down to how much money you are willing to spend, if you came on here saying that you are buying the pioneer elite blu-ray player I would tell you to get that. As far as the ps3 having the best hardware for blu-ray not true. There is better just comes at a cost. And most new players can be updated and some older ones too, just have to download the firmware off the net to disk. Also blu-ray players with profile 2.0 are set to release later this year. I like standalone players better But for the price you really can't beat the Ps3!

you should get ps3, so much cheaper and if you ever want to play a ps3 game ... you CAN! And don't worry the ps3 play blu-rays great. I would buy a ps3 and a remote that goes along with, so it would exactly the same as a blu-ray player.

If you play video games at all, get the PS3. It has the best available Blu-Ray hardware, which runs about $500 to $600 in a stand alone player. Plus you can use the PS3 to store videos, pictures, music. It can virtually become your all-in-one media hub. Can't do any of that on just a player.jshaas

The only game i'm interested in is Metal Gear, i already own an xbox :)

and what is bitstream?

btw i talked to a salesman in a media store and he advised me to go with the ps3 except if i was ready to put down 5 times more money then what the ps3 cost. :/

The only game i'm interested in is Metal Gear, i already own an xbox :)

and what is bitstream?

btw i talked to a salesman in a media store and he advised me to go with the ps3 except if i was ready to put down 5 times more money then what the ps3 cost. :/

[QUOTE="jshaas"]If you play video games at all, get the PS3. It has the best available Blu-Ray hardware, which runs about $500 to $600 in a stand alone player. Plus you can use the PS3 to store videos, pictures, music. It can virtually become your all-in-one media hub. Can't do any of that on just a player.firebreathing

You are wrong! The new firmware handles true hd and dts-ma hd formats now.

Bitstream is not better. LCPM is the lossless format for HD audio.

[QUOTE="firebreathing"][QUOTE="jshaas"]If you play video games at all, get the PS3. It has the best available Blu-Ray hardware, which runs about $500 to $600 in a stand alone player. Plus you can use the PS3 to store videos, pictures, music. It can virtually become your all-in-one media hub. Can't do any of that on just a player.Boxcutters

You are wrong! The new firmware handles true hd and dts-ma hd formats now.

Bitstream is not better. LCPM is the lossless format for HD audio.

He is not wrong. The PS3 cannot bitsream them now, nor will it ever be able to. It is a limitation of the of the HDMI chip they used. Yes the PS3 can internally decode both of the hi-res audio formats and output them via LPCM over HDMI. That's great if you have an receiver with HDMI that can accept and apply post-processing to a 7.1 LPCM signal. A lot of people have high end receivers that lack HDMI. For them the best player would be one that can internally decode and then output the audio via analog connections. That would not be the PS3.

Then there are those who have recently purchased a new receiver that is capable of internally decoding the new audio formats. They want the receiver to do the decoding so that they can see the Dolby True HD and DTS-MA HD logos light up on the display. A lot of them feel they aren't getting their moneys worth if that doesn't happen. If that is you, then the PS3 is not your solution.

It is difficult to make a blanket statement about what player is "best." There are several variables that come into play when deciding what player is "best" for you: cost, existing equipment, etc.

[QUOTE="firebreathing"][QUOTE="jshaas"]If you play video games at all, get the PS3. It has the best available Blu-Ray hardware, which runs about $500 to $600 in a stand alone player. Plus you can use the PS3 to store videos, pictures, music. It can virtually become your all-in-one media hub. Can't do any of that on just a player.Boxcutters

You are wrong! The new firmware handles true hd and dts-ma hd formats now.

Bitstream is not better. LCPM is the lossless format for HD audio.

LCPM is lossless format if you have the new reciever like I do, you will hear a big difference then "BITSTREAM"

Go to the avsforums if you disagree with me.

LCPM is lossless format if you have the new reciever like I do, you will hear a big difference then "BITSTREAM"

Go to the avsforums if you disagree with me.

Boxcutters

For someone that references the AVSForum so often you don't appear to spend any time there.

Read NiHM's post again - maybe you'll actually learn something.

LCPM is lossless format if you have the new reciever like I do, you will hear a big difference then "BITSTREAM"

Go to the avsforums if you disagree with me.

Boxcutters

Question for you. Judging from your posts you seem to be using the PS3 as your blu-ray player, and you also seem to have an AVR capable of accepting LCPM over HDMI. If the PS3 is your blu-ray player, then you have no way of comparing audio that is decoded by the player versus audio that is decoded by the AVR. How then are you able to hear a "big difference?" Or are you saying that you have not personally heard the difference and are just regurgitating something that you read on AVS? I ask because most of the comparisons that I have read on AVS say the exact opposite. When someone claims that they hear a difference, then they usually say that they prefer the audio that is produced when the AVR does the decoding (bitstream.) The one time that I was able to do an A/B comparison I could not hear a difference. The comparison was done with an Onkyo 875, Panasonic BD30, and a PS3.

Learn what? Seem like you don't understand with your cheap home theater in a box.Boxcutters

Learn that the PS3 can not deliver an HD Audio bit stream directly over HDMI. The PS3 must decode the HD Audio stream internally, then transfer it as an LPCM signal.

Since the LPCM signal is derived from the original HD Audio bit stream, claiming LPCM is better reveals a complete lack of understanding on your part.

Bitstreaming is compressed sound. YOu not get the full HD AUDIO!

"My comment is that in my testing, playing the lossless track via HDMI LPCM from the PS3 (which is, in fact, the only choice that actually plays the the lossless track on a PS3) is superior to playing the lossy, "associated" DD5.1 track (which is the best you can get out of the PS3 once you switch its output to HDMI bitstream)."

"linear pcm if you want uncompressed audio. bitstream if you want regular Dolby digital.

seriously, if you want uncompressed audio, go with pcm. not everything has this, but its worth it if it does. just played some folklore in uncompressed, and man, it has some good sound."

"If you use a PS3 with an hdmi receiver that can do multi pcm, select PCM, period"

(like what I have, I don't have el cheapo home theaters like people here)

Learn further here, and educate yourselfs!

Bitstream vs. Linear PCM

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=842477

Bitstreaming is compressed sound. YOu not get the full HD AUDIO!

"My comment is that in my testing, playing the lossless track via HDMI LPCM from the PS3 (which is, in fact, the only choice that actually plays the the lossless track on a PS3) is superior to playing the lossy, "associated" DD5.1 track (which is the best you can get out of the PS3 once you switch its output to HDMI bitstream)."

"linear pcm if you want uncompressed audio. bitstream if you want regular Dolby digital.

seriously, if you want uncompressed audio, go with pcm. not everything has this, but its worth it if it does. just played some folklore in uncompressed, and man, it has some good sound."

"If you use a PS3 with an hdmi receiver that can do multi pcm, select PCM, period"

(like what I have, I don't have el cheapo home theaters like people here)

Learn further here, and educate yourselfs!

Bitstream vs. Linear PCM

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=842477

Boxcutters

Lossless HD Audio is better than lossy Dolby Digital. Wow! That has absolutely nothing to do with how the PS3 handles HD Audio.

Get the PS3, you need updates for the new formats out there, plus ps3 is the best bluray movie player out there.Boxcutters

[QUOTE="Boxcutters"]

Bitstreaming is compressed sound. YOu not get the full HD AUDIO!

"My comment is that in my testing, playing the lossless track via HDMI LPCM from the PS3 (which is, in fact, the only choice that actually plays the the lossless track on a PS3) is superior to playing the lossy, "associated" DD5.1 track (which is the best you can get out of the PS3 once you switch its output to HDMI bitstream)."

"linear pcm if you want uncompressed audio. bitstream if you want regular Dolby digital.

seriously, if you want uncompressed audio, go with pcm. not everything has this, but its worth it if it does. just played some folklore in uncompressed, and man, it has some good sound."

"If you use a PS3 with an hdmi receiver that can do multi pcm, select PCM, period"

(like what I have, I don't have el cheapo home theaters like people here)

Learn further here, and educate yourselfs!

Bitstream vs. Linear PCM

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=842477

HowardB

Lossless HD Audio is better than lossy Dolby Digital. Wow! That has absolutely nothing to do with how the PS3 handles HD Audio.

The end result is ultimately down to the quality of your HT equipment. The issue with a PS3 is that you have to use the PS3 onboard decoding of the HD soundtracks and you dont have the option to let your HT equipment do it and a high end HT processor will be better than th decoding the PS3 can do. If your HT gear can do the decoding but you use a PS3 you will have to get the sound from the ps3 to your amp via PCM with the PS3 doing the proccessing duties. You wont get the True HD symbol lit up on your amp but you will still be listening to the HD soundtrack and quality should be pretty much equal to Bitstream (again this depends on your HT processor). When bitsreaming the AV equipment will do the decoding (the PS3 cant do this, a good stand alone player will do either), which if you have some very good HT equipment will be of better quality than what the PS3 does and you'll get the HD sound symbol lit up on your amp which some people just need :lol:. This is the benefit of a stand alone high end player but as I said in my previous post, you will only get the benefit of this if your really into your home cinema and have high end HT gear.

Lossless HD audio is better than Dolby Digital as DD is not a HD format. Dolby True HD is a HD sound format and is comparale to Lossless HD audio. Which is best is generally subject to debate.

[QUOTE="Boxcutters"]

LCPM is lossless format if you have the new reciever like I do, you will hear a big difference then "BITSTREAM"

Go to the avsforums if you disagree with me.

NiHM

Question for you. Judging from your posts you seem to be using the PS3 as your blu-ray player, and you also seem to have an AVR capable of accepting LCPM over HDMI. If the PS3 is your blu-ray player, then you have no way of comparing audio that is decoded by the player versus audio that is decoded by the AVR. How then are you able to hear a "big difference?" Or are you saying that you have not personally heard the difference and are just regurgitating something that you read on AVS? I ask because most of the comparisons that I have read on AVS say the exact opposite. When someone claims that they hear a difference, then they usually say that they prefer the audio that is produced when the AVR does the decoding (bitstream.) The one time that I was able to do an A/B comparison I could not hear a difference. The comparison was done with an Onkyo 875, Panasonic BD30, and a PS3.

By the way, LPCM requires a lot of floating point calculations, something the Cell proccessor in the PS3 is designed to do very well. A nice peice of info for those that didn't beleive Sony designed the console as a BR player/media hub as much as a gaming console. Fair play on winning the format war though.

My responses are in bold italics below.

Bitstreaming is compressed sound. YOu not get the full HD AUDIO!

That's partially correct. In the case of regular DD and DTS (which are lossy formats) you are right. In the case of Dolby True HD and DTS-HD MA you are wrong. Yes they are compressed when the player sends them out to the AVR. When the AVR gets the signal it is then uncompressed and you have 100% lossless audio.

"My comment is that in my testing, playing the lossless track via HDMI LPCM from the PS3 (which is, in fact, the only choice that actually plays the the lossless track on a PS3) is superior to playing the lossy, "associated" DD5.1 track (which is the best you can get out of the PS3 once you switch its output to HDMI bitstream)."

Yes, the only way to get lossless audio from the PS3 is to have it internally decode and send it out as LPCM. As per my previous post the PS3 is not able to bitstream the high-res audio formats so that you AVR can do the decoding. The important distinction here is that there are standalone players which are capable of bitstreaming the high-res audio. Bitstream does not automatically mean that you are getting the old lossy DD and DTS formats. In the case of the PS3 yes it does. In the case of capable standalone players it does not.

"linear pcm if you want uncompressed audio. bitstream if you want regular Dolby digital.

In the case of the PS3 yes, you are correct.

seriously, if you want uncompressed audio, go with pcm. not everything has this, but its worth it if it does. just played some folklore in uncompressed, and man, it has some good sound."

"If you use a PS3 with an hdmi receiver that can do multi pcm, select PCM, period"

(like what I have, I don't have el cheapo home theaters like people here)

Learn further here, and educate yourselfs!

Bitstream vs. Linear PCM

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=842477

I think I see what you're getting at with these last few statements. Let me see if I am correct. Hypothetically speaking, let's say we have a film on BD. That film has multiple sound options which include Dolby True HD, DTS-HD MA, and LPCM all selectable from the menu. You're saying that even though all 3 options are 100% lossless, the LPCM version will sound the best. You are not alone in this thinking. There are others who claim that they can hear a difference between the three 100% mathematically identical audio tracks. Some say that LPCM sounds better, while others insist that it is the lossless DTS encode that sounds best.

Boxcutters

I've compared audio tracks on discs with more than one lossless track such as 300 and The Fifth Element, and could hear no discernible difference. In purely mathematical terms, there should be no difference. I'm not saying that there isn't one, but to my ears it was not apparent. My audio equipment consists of a Pioneer Elite VSX-82TSX avr, Energy Reference Connoisseur RC-10 fronts, RC-LCR center, Take 5.1 satellites for the rears, and an Energy sub. It's evolved over the years, and I would say I've spent around $3000 on the audio portion of my setup. By no means it considered to be high end. Home theater enthusiasts would consider it to be an entry level setup, but still more than capable of reproducing a lossless audio track in all its glory.

Well, I have an high end reciever that can decode LCPM to Dobly Digital TRUE HD audio, so I don't what to tell you poor folks but to upgrade your equipment.

Bitstreaming is compressing the audio.

LCPM is the only way PS3 can decode HD audio. PERIOD!

If you have a basic reciever that can do only 5.1 DD and DTS then stick to bitstreaming.

You will get only 2 channels of audio with LCPM.

If you have a TRUE HD reciever that cost a lot, then you can take full advantage of HD AUDIO with a HDMI cable plugged in the reciever. You will get the 5 channels HD audio.

Simple!

Well, I have an high end reciever that can decode LCPM to Dobly Digital TRUE HD audio, so I don't what to tell you poor folks but to upgrade your equipment.

Bitstreaming is compressing the audio.

LCPM is the only way PS3 can decode HD audio. PERIOD!

Boxcutters

Please provide us with the make and model of this amazing unique receiver. I say unique because yours is the only receiver in existence that can turn LPCM into True HD. You have it backwards. True HD can be decoded into LPCM, not the other way around. Bitstreaming is not compressing the audio. The audio is already compressed on the disc. Bitstream is the transport method.

Do you have to work at being this obtuse, or does it come naturally?

Really? The new 2008 models can do this. Like Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha.

I got fed up not hearing HD audio, being blocked out from the settings, and so I bought a new reciever this year.

Needless to say. HD audio is mindblowing esp. for sony's big games, and movies.

"PS3 supports both bitstream and linear PCM across the HDMI cable. Right now it plays TrueHD by decoding the signal internally and sending it along as PCM audio, it'll send the native TrueHD signal along to a compliant 1.3 receiver"

Look I even found an old thread about his subject from 2007 and People there saying LCPM trumps bitstreaming

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26131418

By now the amps, and ps3 have updated firmwares that take care of the light that's suppose to say"TRUE HD" if your ps3 can't do it then one those 2008 amps can process the signal to say "TRUE HD"

Really? The new 2008 models can do this. Like Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha.

I got fed up not hearing HD audio, being blocked out from the settings, and so I bought a new reciever this year.

Needless to say. HD audio is mindblowing esp. for sony's big games, and movies.

"PS3 supports both bitstream and linear PCM across the HDMI cable. Right now it plays TrueHD by decoding the signal internally and sending it along as PCM audio, it'll send the native TrueHD signal along to a compliant 1.3 receiver"

Boxcutters

You almost have it down. The end of your post is incorrect: the PS3 cannot send the native True HD signial to a compliant 1.3 receiver. That would be called bitstreaming and if you had read one of my earlier posts it would be abundantly clear to you that the PS3 is incapable of doing that.

Look I even found an old thread about his subject from 2007 and People there saying LCPM trumps bitstreaming

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26131418

By now the amps, and ps3 have updated firmwares that take care of the light that's suppose to say"TRUE HD" if your ps3 can't do it then one those 2008 amps can process the signal to say "TRUE HD"

Boxcutters

That thread only reaffirms everything that I have already posted. If you have a PS3 connected to one of those amps via HDMI the True HD display will NEVER light up. It will say that is receiving a PCM signal because that is what the PS3 is sending out.

[QUOTE="Boxcutters"]

Really? The new 2008 models can do this. Like Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha.

I got fed up not hearing HD audio, being blocked out from the settings, and so I bought a new reciever this year.

Needless to say. HD audio is mindblowing esp. for sony's big games, and movies.

"PS3 supports both bitstream and linear PCM across the HDMI cable. Right now it plays TrueHD by decoding the signal internally and sending it along as PCM audio, it'll send the native TrueHD signal along to a compliant 1.3 receiver"

NiHM

You almost have it down. The end of your post is incorrect: the PS3 cannot send the native True HD signial to a compliant 1.3 receiver. That would be called bitstreaming and if you had read one of my earlier posts it would be abundantly clear to you that the PS3 is incapable of doing that.

Again! you are wrong. PS3 will convert a la LCPM any HD audio bit for bit without any loss.

If you have an old reciver you will not see a MAGIC LIGHT that says TRUE HD, which compressed format anyways.

Linear PCM is not compressed in any shape or form.

"

You are correct - the PS3 does all the work for your amp. It takes the DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD audio data and converts it into a "PCM" stream - see here for more info on PCM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCM.

Other Blueray players may not decode the DTS-HD MA or TrueHD internally, they will output it as a raw bitstream, which will then cause your amp to decode it internally, and show the little light which indicates that this format is being played.

The end result is that you get exactly the same audio auality and features (7.1, sound quality etc) when the PS3 does the decoding, but you do not get the light on your amp

The good news here is for those who have amps that support PCM but not DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD… with the PS3 decoding the format internally they too can enjoy the new formats!"

http://jakkaj.wordpress.com/2008/03/01/dolby-truehd-and-dts-hd-ma-on-ps3/

"If you want your Onkyo to output TrueHD or DtsHD go into the PS3 Blu-Ray Disc audio output menu and select PCM instead of bitstream and then you will see that magic " HD " pop up in your display.. in essence you are allowing PS3 to losslessly expand the Dolby TrueHD soundtrack into pure multi-channel PCM for decoding by your receiver. I to ran into this with my Onkyo 805.. hope this helps."

So what you don't a get a magic light.I feel sorry for you.

I get the light that says "TRUE HD" and DTS-HD, maybe because I bought a new denon model this may of 2008, and I update my ps3 firmware.

So what you don't a get a magic light.I feel sorry for you.

I get the light that says "TRUE HD" and DTS-HD, maybe because I bought a new denon model this may of 2008, and I update my ps3 firmware.

Boxcutters

You are unbelievable. You finally make a coherent post that contains actual facts, and then you post this nonsense.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make?

PS2 converts compress HD audio or in your case "true Hd" into a Lossless format that is bit by bit identical to true hd.

If you check your TV with your ps3 remote it will say TRUE HD like what I posted before.

All bitstreaming does is give you a magic light with certain formats, whoppie doo!.

You will still need to set it LCPM if you have a 1.3 hdmi reciver, and if you have a new reciever that can decode it will light up with magic letters

"DOLBY DIGITAL TRUE HD"

but i don't you even think you own a reciever, or much less a good one.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make?

PS2 converts compress HD audio or in your case "true Hd" into a Lossless format that is bit by bit identical to true hd.

If you check your TV with your ps3 remote it will say TRUE HD like what I posted before.

All bitstreaming does is give you a magic light with certain formats, whoppie doo!.

You will still need to set it LCPM if you have a 1.3 hdmi reciver, and if you have a new reciever that can decode it will light up with magic letters

"DOLBY DIGITAL TRUE HD"

but i don't you even think you own a reciever, or much less a good one.

Boxcutters

That is hilarious. You're actually attempting to throw the very information you've stubbornly refused to accept back into the face of the one person with enough patience to try and get you to comprehend it.

Arrogance of that magnitude is a rare thing, a truly rare thing.

It's really simple

Someone in this or a similar thread said it simply and best.

DVD's go bitstream.

BD's go LPCM.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=842477&page=8

Good luck to you!

No one has provided any proof, or anything to contridict what I'm saying except saying blanket satements to incite anger.

So unless you have some proof, I don't care anymore.

I'm happy with LCPM on my receiver I can decode HD audio, and it says Dolby Digital TRUE HD, or DTS HD.

That's all I care about.

If you bitstreaming then your limiting you PS3's potential it's that simple esp. if you have a HDMI capable amp.

No one has provided any proof, or anything to contridict what I'm saying except saying blanket satements to incite anger.

So unless you have some proof, I don't care anymore.

I'm happy with LCPM on my receiver I can decode HD audio, and it says Dolby Digital TRUE HD, or DTS HD.

That's all I care about.

If you bitstreaming then your limiting you PS3's potential it's that simple esp. if you have a HDMI capable amp.

Boxcutters

From Gizmodo:

"UPDATE: To be clear, this decodes the DTS formats—plus Dolby's formats, including Dolby TrueHD—and outputs all channels via HDMI to a receiver that can take a 5.1 or 7.1 PCM stream. It won't do 5.1 or 7.1 analog output. Also, as some of you have noted, it does NOT bitstream the DTS or Dolby data to a decoder inside a newer decoder-equipped receiver."

From your much revered, overly referenced AVSForum:

"The PS3 provides internal decoding of the advanced audio formats with LPCM output and it cannot provide an undecoded bitstream output."

"NOTE: The PS3 internally decodes the advanced audio formats (DTS HD-HR, DTS HD-MA and Dolby TrueHD) and outputs them to your AV Receiver (AVR) using Linear PCM (LPCM). Your AVR display will only show the input type with indications such as PCM, LPCM or some other indication indicating multi-channel PCM. It will NOT display the name of the orginal Dolby or DTS format."

Due the the incredibly poor grammar and complete lack of reading comprehension demonstrated by Boxcutters I thought that maybe there was something hindering our communication. Going under the assumption that english was possibly not his native language, I was willing to tough it out to get the point across. I've decided that is no longer the case.

I provided nothing but facts in in my posts. I took one of his very own posts and refuted it claim by claim. When he made statements that were miraculously correct, I agreed. Yet he continues to post incorrect information. I've also seen that he does the same thing the the threads about displays. Dirk13 has done much to refute his nonsense in those threads. I can only reach one conclusion. He is a troll, and a very persistent one at that.

Old information, there newer receiver that do the job now, and new firmware updates for PS3 and for the recievers.

Please do try again.

Old information, there newer receiver that do the job now, and new firmware updates for PS3 and for the recievers.

Please do try again.

Boxcutters

The AVSForum thread I linked to includes the latest PS3 firmware update, 2.36. No newer firmware updates exist until the 2.40 release. The information in that thread is up to date and valid.