PS3 or bluray player?

Due the the incredibly poor grammar and complete lack of reading comprehension demonstrated by Boxcutters I thought that maybe there was something hindering our communication. Going under the assumption that english was possibly not his native language, I was willing to tough it out to get the point across. I've decided that is no longer the case.

I provided nothing but facts in in my posts. I took one of his very own posts and refuted it claim by claim. When he made statements that were miraculously correct, I agreed. Yet he continues to post incorrect information. I've also seen that he does the same thing the the threads about displays. Dirk13 has done much to refute his nonsense in those threads. I can only reach one conclusion. He is a troll, and a very persistent one at that.

NiHM

The earlier comment on DVD's being sent via bitstream isnt strictly true either, I have a Panasonic one that that can send in both, but a 5.1 DVD soundtrack doesnt exceed the Optical cables bandwith when bitstreaming, a HD soundtrack one will.

In answer to the threads original question, a stand alone player is the best option but the PS3 is a very good one too. Theory is that Bitsreaming means less processing of the sound and your highend AVR's or processors (if your high end enough to use seperates) decoding can be left as the only device processing the sound. A high end processor or AVR processor will be better than the PS3's and in this case Bitstreaming is the best option which the PS3 cant do. If you dont have this HD high end AVR then PS3 will be fine, if you do it will still be fine but your PS3 will decode the soundtrack first and send it to your AV equipment which will then decode the sent LPCM track, and with a PS3 this is your only option for sending the sound. There is no definate answer as to if you can actually hear this difference, some say they can and some say they cant and a purchase decision should be based on that.

FYI, I had a BOSE system once that couldnt accept the Bitstream signal so I used to use PCM from my DVD player. Since then I've sold the Bose and have my current equipment which can accept Bitstream and I think that the surround effects are reproduced better than when I used PCM. This could be due to my amp upgrade or the way the sound is sent but I do now use Bitstream and when I go Blu-ray some time soon I will be buying a stand alone player so I can continue to use bitstreaming, and that would be my personal preference.

i was merely stating that when watching a dvd on th ps3 and setting it on bitstream as opposed to lpcm it sounded better............but w/e. firebreathing

well duh of course, LCPM is only 2 speakers with an optical cable, and regular receiver.

When you upgrade to a HDMI receiver, then LCPM is the only way to get full uncompressed audio raw stream from an HDMI cable to get "HD audio" which uses full bandwith.

[QUOTE="firebreathing"]i was merely stating that when watching a dvd on th ps3 and setting it on bitstream as opposed to lpcm it sounded better............but w/e. Boxcutters

well duh of course, LCPM is only 2 speakers with an optical cable, and regular receiver.

When you upgrade to a HDMI receiver, then LCPM is the only way to get full uncompressed audio raw stream from an HDMI cable to get "HD audio" which uses full bandwith.

They both end up coming out of your speakers as a HD soundtrack. Some processors cant accept bitstreams and in this case an LPCM signal is required. By having a player decode the signal a surround kit doesnt need the extra processing capabilty to handle bitstreams and therefore money is saved. Higher end equipment includes the ability to deal with a bitstream and you surround kit can do the decoding, which like Ive already said is better if your surround processor is better than the Blu-ray player one. My Onkyo 875 will be better than a PS3 when it comes to processing so in my case a Bitstream should lead to a better quality result, but like I have also already said, this is always debated as to if you can actually hear the difference. My personal opinion is that using bitstream is better as I beleive I can hear the surround effect better (not the actual quality of the sound produced, I didnt notice a difference here) with surround effects sounding more targetted and acurate, and the rear speakers just working better in general.

To fire, I get what you were saying now mate so no problem.

METALGEARSOLID4
kreestoph

I read AVS just about every day, so I must be an expert, huh? :roll:

On topic: I'd say the PS3. There was an article on CEPro a while back, which incidentally made the front page of AVSForum, as to why to go with the PS# at this point in time. http://www.cepro.com/article/10_reasons_the_playstation_3_should_be_your_blu_ray_player

Off topic (sort of): As for this bitstream/LPCM debate, whether the player or the AVR does the decoding of a lossless codec, it should sound the same. You end up with the same information either way: ALL OF IT, because nothing is lost (hence the "lossless"). The AVR has nothing to process, the LPCM contains all the information for each speaker to play. The only differences are that the LPCM, being uncompressed, takes up more room on the disc than Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA, and that, theoretically, for reasons of space on the BD, it would be possible to use a codec to put a higher bitrate audio tract on the BD than with LPCM. In which case, the codec's lossless compression would ultimately allow for a higher resolution signal to be sent to the AVR/played by your speakers.

As you guys pointed out to Boxcutters, the PS3 can only output LPCM for lossless and cannot bitstream TrueHD or DTS-HD MA, so there will never be lossless decoding even on an HDMI 1.3 AVR. There has, however, as noted, been debate at AVS over bitstream vs. LPCM from lossy codecs; and the general consensus is that the bitstream is better because in this case the AVRs can end up with a different result than the PS3. Again, this is NOT the case with lossless tracks, where the end result is always the same bit-for-bit and there is nothing that the AVR can process differently. Anything you have set up on your AVR, like channel level adjustments, EQ, etc., is going to be applied to the same LPCM whether it came from the PS3 or the AVR uncompressed it itself.

In response to the link posted by to human, I dont think the article is as air tight as they would have you beleive. I'll explain why:

"

It's Future Proof

A lot has been made about Blu-ray's many different specifications, and how many of the players first introduced would not be able to handle the features rolled out in the future.

The PS3 has been prepared for any future updates to the Blu-ray specification, with its internal hard drive and Internet connectivity. Many of the stand-alone players introduced by manufacturers are missing these crucial components, meaning that they can't use newer picture-in-picture and online interactivity, accessible via ...

Profile 2.0

The PS3 received its Profile 2.0 (BD-Live) update earlier this year, making it the first Blu-ray player to support the features.

While there aren't too many discs out with BD-Live features, and it's way more likely your customer actually just wants to watch movies in HD, there's no reason to primarily offer a player that can't handle everything Blu-ray offers. "

The latest BR player are axactly the same as this with BR 2.0 and ethernet ports built in. This is exclusive to PS3

Gaming is becoming a bigger and bigger part of the home theater experience, with some videogame sales outpacing movie debuts.

According to Ted Green of the Stratecon Group, many integrators at a recent seminar said they are installing the PS3 as a gaming machine, and the Blu-ray just happened to come along.

Need a run-down on some popular games? Here are 8 games you need to know about any why."

The 360,PC and even the Wii has more games to offer. 8 games isnt the last word in gaming and this smacks a bit of making any reason a good one IMO.

Gamers are ripe for high-end A/V systems, according to research from THX and the Nielsen Research Group (NRG).

The research found that 44 percent of PS3 owners have the console in the living room or den, suggesting that it's being used as an entertainment hub and not a toy in a kid's bedroom. Fifty-one percent of PS3 owners watch movies on the system, and 54 percent have at least a 5.1 audio setup.

More than the two main competing systems, 71 percent of respondents have the PS3 connected on an HD display (66 percent of Xbox 360 owners and 65 of Nintendo Wii owners). "

These percentage figures dont take installed units into account. 66% of 360 owners is a higher figure the 71% of PS3 owners. This is playing with numbers to prove a point. I dont see though, why a HT system means you have to buy any particular syatem, and for the high end HT owner a stand alone player is preferable anyways.

"

The Price is Right

In the custom world, most clients are able to pay higher prices for superior products. When it comes to the mass-marketed PS3, the MSRP of $399 (40 GB model) is easily swallowed when considering everything that it does.

Obviously, this presents a margin problem (since there really isn't any). But, like with nearly all consumer-oriented products, that's normally the reality.

Networking Functionality, DLNA-compliant

The PS3 has both Ethernet and Wi-Fi networking capabilities, providing online access for gaming, firmware updates and media streaming.

It's a Digital Living Network Alliance (DLNA) compliant system, meaning it can connect to networked PCs to stream music, movies, pictures and more."

The latest 2.0 players have ethernet ports. Sony dont include Wi Fi in them because they want you to buy a PS3 but this feature again isnt exclusive to the PS3. The point in the link about the price being right though is an cast iron fact and deffinatly one worth taking into account.

"DTS-HD Audio

Sony added support for DTS-HD Master Audio in April, answering the prayers of many audiophiles waiting for the desperately.

While the audio codec has been available in other Blu-ray players, its addition to the PS3 rounds out the general wish list among home theater gurus (it also received upconverting capabilities after its launch). "

Again this isnt exclusive to ps3.

"TV, Movie Downloads Coming

On the PlayStation blog, Sony confirmed that rumors of video downloads coming to the PS3 are indeed true.

While I don't have any new announcements here for the PlayStation Nation, it's already been confirmed that we'll be offering a video service for PS3 in a way that separates the service from others you've seen or used. Ultimately the goal of the PLAYSTATION Network service will be to break through the overwhelming clutter of digital media to give you the TV, movies and gaming content you want. More on this very soon ...

The Xbox 360 has had digital downloads for some time now, so while the PS3 would only be catching up, it potentially gets rid of one more box to install in a rack. "

It doesnt get rid of anything, if your 360 owner this isnt going to suddenly make you get rid of it. People using HTPC's arent going to get rid of those and this has no bearing on you if your a Wii owner. As it also says digital downloading isnt exclusive to the PS3.

"Sony's Gaming Business is On the Rise

While the system's introduction wasn't easy, Sony's gaming business announced that sales were up 31.2 percent in the third quarter, thanks mostly to the PS3.

With the format war ending, standalone Blu-ray players have seen lackluster sales, according to NPD research, while PS3 sales in March were up 98 percent year over year. Yeah, you can't do an apples-and-oranges comparison, but given its affordability as a Blu-ray player, there's undoubtedly some correlation. "

The gaming industry on a whole is on the rise. This only affects you as a gamer and isnt really anything to do with the home theater industry.

"It's Rack-Mountable

Rounding out its home theater usage, the PS3 can be installed in a rack.

For a system in a closet, this is a must. "

Is this real, so the ps3 is the only device that can be placed on a shelf? Come on this is scraping the barrel trying to get to 10 reasons. How about the fact the ps3 is the sleekest looking machine out there and stylwise is probably the best device out there.

"3 Reasons Not to Install the PS3 as a Blu-ray Player

Even with all of the reasons to use a PlayStation 3 in place of a standalone Blu-ray player, there are still a few things missing for custom installers.

No IR Control The PS3's remote situation is ugly, making it difficult to properly control. You can either do a klunky workaround, buy a USB dongle, or hope that the IR4PS3 remote does the job. If your a gamer a ps3 means you can save on not having to BR player and for DVD's it means not have a 360 whirring away with the sound of 2 fans blasing out. It is a bit of a bummer but hardly the end of the world.

No RS-232 It's not totally a surprise, given the mass-market audience, but it sure would be nice if the PS3 had RS-232. Home automation is a bit more difficult without the control standard.

You really shouldnt take web articles as the be all and end all, yes they make some good points but you could put together a ten reason list to buy anything. You could probably put together ten reasons not to buy it. You should focus on your personal requirements and look at how a particular device fits your needs. The PS3 is a very good option. If your a gamer then theres no point having two BR players, if you dont need bitstreaming or dont know what it is then get a PS3. If your not a gamer then there are stand alone players that are as cheap or if your a high end HT lover then a high end stand alone player will be superior, not just with sound but with picture processing too assuming you have a quality TV, as high end owners do.

Why do you keep mentioning the 360 in the context whether the PS3 should be the current Blu-Ray player of choice to install??

Personally, I don't take internet articles or message boards as the end-all-be-all. However, having said that, that article is by a publication that is for the professionals who do custom in-home electronics installations, such as home theaters, security, and home automation (including the previous two as well as lights, temperature control, music/video serving, etc.). They tend to know what they're talking about.

yeah, now that the whole blu-ray deal has pretty much been settled on, i'm very much leaning towards getting a ps3 for both gaming and hi-def movie watching. updates are extra icing on cake.wii-is-me

Why do you keep mentioning the 360 in the context whether the PS3 should be the current Blu-Ray player of choice to install??

Personally, I don't take internet articles or message boards as the end-all-be-all. However, having said that, that article is by a publication that is for the professionals who do custom in-home electronics installations, such as home theaters, security, and home automation (including the previous two as well as lights, temperature control, music/video serving, etc.). They tend to know what they're talking about.

virtual-human

They are right in that the PS3 is a good solution and a good BR player, but its not the be all and end all like they're trying to make out. It looks like they've struggled to make the ten points to me.

I mentioned the PC and wii too. Some of the points they make have nothing to do with blu-ray. My HT setup is non to shabby either. I have a PC linked with my 360 on a wireless network and everything is linked through my Onkyo 875 AVR which is connected to my HD plasma. I wouldnt cal it particularly high end but its certainly above what the average person as set up in their homes. The latest 2.0 blu-ray players are updatable too so as I keep saying its down to yor personal requirements.

They are right in that the PS3 is a good solution and a good BR player, but its not the be all and end all like they're trying to make out. It looks like they've struggled to make the ten points to me.

the1stmoonfly

Listen, I don't want to argue, but since this thread as a reference to anybody looking for the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player, I'll just point out that everything they mentioned is in the frame of reference of what one Blu-Ray player can do vs. another; the PS3 happens to be the only Blu-Ray player that can do a lot of things. That's all they're saying. So, yes - you did also mention the PC and the Wii. They're equally irrelevant, unless you are comparing a HTPC with a BD drive (which would, however, not favorably compare in price). Again, the very latest players are 2.0, but the article's point was that you get the highest return on your money with the PS3 at the moment. That is cold hard fact.

I'm not defending the article, as I have no vested interest in it. Simply the fact that the PS3 is, for now, the best value in a Blu-Ray player.

I'm glad for you that you have a nice system, but I'm not really sure what bearing that has on this topic.

I just didnt like the article, most of its points have no bearing on blu ray. It would be ceaper for me to install a BR drive in my pc than buy a PS3 and I'd have way more I could do with that than a PS3, but like you say those things have no bearing on BR. The worst reason was that the PS3 is rack mountable, this simply isnt a deal clinching feature I'm sorry, all devices are rack mountable.

You seemed to imply I had no idea what I was talking about compared to that article, I merely pointed out that I to know what I'm talking about and I wantn't trying to brag about what I have, there are many with setups that are better than mine. For me a stand alone player is what I want because for me thats the best device. This is the point I've been making, that for some people the PS3 is not the best device for playing you BR movies. I also said it is a very good player, is good value and that increases to excellent value if your a gamer too. If your not a gamer then there are cheaper stand alone players available now too, not to mention the pre-owned market where some very good deals can be had.

My personal answer to the TC would be get a stand alone player, but this obviously isn't that clear and simple, hence the long winded explanations.