StarCraft does Warhammer better then Warhammer

[QUOTE="Nerkcon"] That is what you implied all the time though. "There are good RTS developers besides Blizzard and Relic, like who?" - YouMograine

It's bull**** and you know it.

I can't find the thread but what you said left a big scar in my mind. I have never heard such fanboyism in my life. You're proof about how willing brainwashed a fanboy could be.Nerkcon

Again, that's bull**** and you know it. Quit putting words in my mouth and out of their context.

I said that I enjoyed Relic games, specifically Dawn of War, but they are the kind of RTS that you play to let time pass, not seriously.

They don't have a nearly competitive community and don't have as much focus on custom maps as Blizzard games have.

[QUOTE="Mograine"]

[QUOTE="Nerkcon"] Says the guy who said all games not made by Blizzard are not worth playing.Nerkcon

You really enjoy putting words in my mouth, don't you?

I think there are only four, Blizzard, Relic, Creative Assembly, and Gas Powered Games.

I think there are only four, Blizzard, Relic, Creative Assembly, and Gas Powered Games.

Rawtheory333

EA with C&C

[QUOTE="Rawtheory333"]

I think there are only four, Blizzard, Relic, Creative Assembly, and Gas Powered Games.

Mograine

EA with C&C

From what I hear they've run that series into the ground.

I think there are only four, Blizzard, Relic, Creative Assembly, and Gas Powered Games.

Rawtheory333

Big Huge Games!

[QUOTE="Swiftstrike5"]

[QUOTE="Mograine"]Make an example where races play in a completely different way to eachother, no unit is like any other and the possible combinations and uses of units are almost limitless like in StarCraft.Rawtheory333

If I remember correctly the allied infantry squad is a hit an run unit. They can get recoilless rifles and grenades. The could take cover and blow MG nests with the right MM by either surrounding them and/or blowing them with grenades. They're cover jumpers, designed to overwhelm the enemy with numbers and good MM and support armor.

The marine in SC can shoot gound and air units, fortify positions by entering bunkers and can gain armor and weapon range upgrades. The usage of stimpacks makes them viable at overwhelming the enemy and base raping. They are the core support unit of SC just like infantry in CoH

All I see are two different RTS design philosophies. Both are core units that have multiple uses. Neither is better then the other.

Relic did genuinely innovate with CoH and was the best balanced RTS since SC. Both franchises are fantastic.

Even engineers can fill an anti-tank role with the detpack or anti-infantry by bringing down buildings. They can be upgraded to be CQC anti-infantry with flame throwers, plus all the amazing defenses they can construct.

Paratroopers are a whole another bag to play with. I like using a scout plane to spot an empty area then drop several squads of paratroopers. Finally, upgrading them with recoilless. It's devastating if the enemy doesn't catch what's going on, since paratroopers are the 3rd or 4th best anti-infantry unit and the recoilless is the best anti-tank weapon, I believe. Then on top of that, they can throw detpacks, grenades, and reinforce behind enemy lines. The combination of detpacks and recoilless makes them the ideal base raiders. The only hard counter to infantry is snipers or lack of cover (and flamethrower tanks), but even that isn't all that useful if you don't have something to spot them first.

CoH has tons of soft counters as well as a few hard counters, which allows for diverse/versatile gameplay. If you aren't careful, you can easily fall behind by losing an expensive unit to a single, simple infantry squad.

[QUOTE="Rawtheory333"]

I think there are only four, Blizzard, Relic, Creative Assembly, and Gas Powered Games.

Baranga

Big Huge Games!

I bought Rise of Legends and was very disappointed. For a fantasy setting it lack any oomph, the sound design was terrible and the community was non-existent.

Yeah, CoH standard infantry (aside from paratroopers) was the most versatile unit in the game because they could pick up any other infantry weapon (even enemy weapons) and got some serious buffs through upgrades. They can immobilize tanks with sticky bombs then destroy them if they have a recoilless. They could easily take down MG nests with grenades and they can pick up LMGs for extra suppression. On top of that, they can form into mortar/MG/anti-tank teams if the enemy foolish enough to leave that equipment lying around. They are also resource gathers, since they capture key points. If you have the right specialization, they can even fortify a position by constructing defenses. British are especially good when it comes to defenses.

Even engineers can fill an anti-tank role with the detpack or anti-infantry by bringing down buildings. They can be upgraded to be CQC anti-infantry with flame throwers, plus all the amazing defenses they can construct.

Paratroopers are a whole another bag to play with. I like using a scout plane to spot an empty area then drop several squads of paratroopers. Finally, upgrading them with recoilless. It's devastating if the enemy doesn't catch what's going on, since paratroopers are the 3rd or 4th best anti-infantry unit and the recoilless is the best anti-tank weapon, I believe. Then on top of that, they can throw detpacks, grenades, and reinforce behind enemy lines. The combination of detpacks and recoilless makes them the ideal base raiders. The only hard counter to infantry is snipers or lack of cover (and flamethrower tanks), but even that isn't all that useful if you don't have something to spot them first.

CoH has tons of soft counters as well as a few hard counters, which allows for diverse/versatile gameplay. If you aren't careful, you can easily fall behind by losing an expensive unit to a single, simple infantry squad.

Swiftstrike5

Brings back fond memories... allied infantry certainly are the most versatile unit in CoH, and probably any RTS. But the design structure of SC can't allow for that level of versatility in one unit. So CoH>SC2 in innovation, but SC2>CoH in depth of balance by having three totally unique armies, a larger playerbase and better matchmaking net.code

League of Legends and Heroes of Newerth seem to be beating both Relic and Blizzard games right now (per Xfire) but I guess that doesn't track the entire country of South Korea :P playing SC. Any possibility of SC2 creating a rift in the community much like CS: Source did. What do you guys think?

Brings back fond memories... allied infantry certainly are the most versatile unit in CoH, and probably any RTS. But the design structure of SC can't allow for that level of versatility in one unit. So CoH>SC2 in innovation, but SC2>CoH in depth of balance by having three totally unique armies, a larger playerbase and better matchmaking net.code

Rawtheory333

I was just giving an example of a game that has the same "limitless" uses, if not more. I wasn't trying to compare the games beyond that.

[QUOTE="Rawtheory333"]Brings back fond memories... allied infantry certainly are the most versatile unit in CoH, and probably any RTS. But the design structure of SC can't allow for that level of versatility in one unit. So CoH>SC2 in innovation, but SC2>CoH in depth of balance by having three totally unique armies, a larger playerbase and better matchmaking net.code

Swiftstrike5

I was just giving an example of a game that has the same "limitless" uses, if not more. I wasn't trying to compare the games beyond that.

Ten-four

League of Legends and Heroes of Newerth seem to be beating both Relic and Blizzard games right now (per Xfire) but I guess that doesn't track the entire country of South Korea :P playing SC. Any possibility of SC2 creating a rift in the community much like CS: Source did. What do you guys think?

Gooeykat

Well it looks like SC2 will provide all the OG models in their editor. So peeps that want SC1 games will be able to mod em up and im sure that'll happen pretty soon after the official release. So I see no reason why your average player will want to stay on OG SC.

In short I think Starcraft is a lot better than Warhammer games.

If I am to elaborate however, Starcraft is not the holy grail of rts gentre. Dawn of War series and Coh brought great innovations for the gentre and I enjoyed playing them almost as much as playing Starcraft. Starcraft's multiplayer is very enjoyable but it's gameplay (the first one) feels dated for me now. Relic's games' gameplay differs a lot from Sc. It seems more tactical, relies on more tactical solutions than practical solutions and fundementally feels very different. One can enjoy both games like me.

But the main point is, why people here automatically assume that Sc's most important aspect is it's multiplayer? My love towards the first game mostly comes from its single player experience. Sc has an unrivaled storyteling, a very good plot, great characters which effectively also fleshes out the units in the game separately and gives them life. After playing the campaign one can easily connect with zealots or dark templar or after watching the cinematics, with terran marines. This makes Sc special and makes the universe of Starcraft interesting to dive in.

On the other hand Dawn of War has a terrible story. Uninteresting missions. Heroes with almost no characters. Also as far as I remember it has no scripted campaign for chaos,eldar,ork vs vs . It is complately generic. And here people argue Sc2 brings nothing new to table and will be sold as 3 separate games. Well Dawn of War and it's 3 expansions brought nothing new to table single player-wise. On the other hand, as a single player game Sc will try something new for a rts game. Your choices will matter, you will really feel like you are in control. With a new interface never before seen in a rts game. It will be a complately new single player experience for rts games.

I don't know why people ignore this stuff and claim that Sc2 is nothing new. Also I checked out it's multiplayer videos and with the new units, a lot of new play stylesare possible. It doesn't look stale. Also if W3 is any indication, custom map support will be enormous.

Side note: I have to give credit to Dow2's single player as it brought new things to the table and it was a blast to finish it co-op with a friend. Story and storytelling sucked big time again tho.