Starcraft II vs other recent RTS?

Ok Ive been playing SC2 since release and I must say that the single player is pretty good. But to me its a the game doesnt hold up to recent RTS that have come out. Dont get me wrong its a good game but not how its been hype to death. WOC is far better game all around. WH2 has better graphics and multiplayer. COH is a better game all round. What do you guys think? Where do you rank SC2 amoung the RTS games that have come out the past 5yrs?

i own Medieval 2: Total War, Empire Total War, Dawn of War 2, World in Conflict, Supreme Commander 1 and 2, Demigod, Company of Heroes, Kings Bounty and Armored Princess, Disciples 3, Civ 4, Galactic Civs 2, and Sins of a Solar Empire as my more recent strategy games.

I can easily say Starcraft 2 is better than all of them. Don't get me wrong, i enjoyed every one of them, and i'm still playing an Empire: TW campaign at the moment. But theres simply an unrivaled level of quality and polish in Starcraft that the others games lack.

a lot of people are neck deep in nolstagia that they're quick to ignore the advances in the rts genre. To say that starcraft 2 even matches or surpasses the recent giants in the genre is just pure blizzard fanboyism. A polished game does not = the best game of them all. Stracraft 2 is good, maybe even great, but really, it's like CnC 3 all over again. Gloss up an old game with shinier graphics and a few tweak, but its's still the same game. To say that starcraft 2 matches the quality of company of heroes or the combat depth found in Dow 2 ? jeez, I can understand you paid $60 bucks for the game, but come.

And is it just me or does Dawn of War 2 and SC2 kind have the same story and races? And some of the units are the same. I dont know who copy who but I find it funny lol.

And is it just me or does Dawn of War 2 and SC2 kind have the same story and races? And some of the units are the same. I dont know who copy who but I find it funny lol.

J-REAL

i'm not all that far into the SC2 campaign, but it does seem like there are huge similarities in the story.

Yeah im not talking bad about SC2 im really liking it and its very hard lol but story wise and gameplay feels like Ive seen and played it before. The only thing that is keeping me playing is the story. Ive never played the 1st one.

a lot of people are neck deep in nolstagia that they're quick to ignore the advances in the rts genre. To say that starcraft 2 even matches or surpasses the recent giants in the genre is just pure blizzard fanboyism. A polished game does not = the best game of them all. Stracraft 2 is good, maybe even great, but really, it's like CnC 3 all over again. Gloss up an old game with shinier graphics and a few tweak, but its's still the same game. To say that starcraft 2 matches the quality of company of heroes or the combat depth found in Dow 2 ? jeez, I can understand you paid $60 bucks for the game, but come.

omenodebander

Take a very old game, gloss it up and let nolstagia do the rest. And some people wonder why a lot say pc gaming is dying.

Take a very old game, gloss it up and let nolstagia do the rest. And some people wonder why a lot say pc gaming is dying.

omenodebander

Take a very old game, gloss it up and let nolstagia do the rest. And some people wonder why a lot say pc gaming is dying.

omenodebander

Can't stress this enough.

[QUOTE="omenodebander"]

Take a very old game, gloss it up and let nolstagia do the rest. And some people wonder why a lot say pc gaming is dying.

Renevent42

Take a very old game, gloss it up and let nolstagia do the rest. And some people wonder why a lot say pc gaming is dying.

omenodebander

[QUOTE="omenodebander"]

Take a very old game, gloss it up and let nolstagia do the rest. And some people wonder why a lot say pc gaming is dying.

DanielDust

[QUOTE="DanielDust"][QUOTE="omenodebander"]

Take a very old game, gloss it up and let nolstagia do the rest. And some people wonder why a lot say pc gaming is dying.

SF_KiLLaMaN

[QUOTE="DanielDust"][QUOTE="omenodebander"]

Take a very old game, gloss it up and let nolstagia do the rest. And some people wonder why a lot say pc gaming is dying.

SF_KiLLaMaN

@ danieldust. then tell me, oh wise one, tell me, what is an Rts? Where in the term "RTS" does it say, "It must have base building to be rts", tell me where it says it must play like starcraft to be considered an rts".

You starcraft fanboys are freaking hilarious. You justify your fanatic obsession with the silly logic that any Rts must adhere to starcraft's formula to worthy of the title "RTS". Blizzard simply remade starcraft with a few tweaks and "small" improvements and somehow you forget that the genre has moved forward since the days of clickfests, spamming about a hundred of the same faceless units and sending them all to rush an opponent.

It's people like you that are responsible for the dramatic shift in pc gaming. Blizzard refused to take risks to try something new, and because of that, they are now stuck in the past, partying like it's 1998.

As good as starcraft 2 is, nothing about it, save the polish and multiplayer features, nothing makes it stand out. Anyone out there remember the game Sacrifice? and how full of imagination that game was. Today, people are going nuts about a "PC" game where Creativity, innovation and imagination got tossed out of the window.

Next time someone makes a thread about how pc game is dying, I'll personally buy him a beer.

It cracks me up how Blizzard haters can only come up with this "nostalgia", "reskinned SC1" and "not innovative" crap.

It gives away the fact that they don't have a clue about Blizzard games, or about strategy depth, in such a colorful and painfully obvious manner.

And hearing a "some people wonder PC gaming is dying" especially makes me roll on the floor laughing. We're talking about a Blizzard game, if anything Blizzard games are what keep PC gaming always headstrong and stalwart, neck-deep in competitiveness.

Take a look at any youtube match with Jaedong, Bisu, SlayerS_BoxerS, Savior name in it. There's your "strategy depth". 10 matches of DoW2 put together wouldn't be as deep as early scouting in one of these matches, let alone strategy and battling.

@danieldust, and again, I ask you to define Rts. Tell me, define an RTS and show me proof of what makes a game an RTS. No one game can be the definition of a genre. By your logic, doom, quake, unreal or a celebrated shooter like halflike should be the standard by which all shooters are defined. Since those game got the formula right. Right? Despite the fact that the genre has moved forward since those days.

Or better yet, by your logic, Herzog zwei (known to be the first RTS recorded), with a vastly different gameplay style, is the standard by which all rts are judged. And since the game predated stacraft, then it should be better than starcraft 2 since it pioneered the genre.

and it cracks me up when people like keep going on and on about how starcraft is unmatched when it comes don to pure strategy. Really? I guess supreme commander, total annihilation, myth, homeworld and their massive scale are just for show. I guess, games like total war series are just for show too.

Naming a few players on youtube means nothing. I can provide a link of a street fighter 3 video and claim street fighter 3 is the most technical game out there, despite the fact that virtua fighter holds that crown. But I digress.

^

True indeed.

The fundamental thing about SC2 is that the core mechanics work. You can say it's not much different from 1998 (and to be fair, that's true), but it's like criticising the internal combustion engine (or the wheel...choose your metaphor) for being around for more than 100 years - lots of things around it have changed, but it's still an effective system. You don't go messing with a system that works very well for the sake of it - just look at Supreme Commander 2*, that turned the original into a travesty.

The game works well - it's fun to play, the control is not awkward or contrived, and the game plays smoothly. It's also embedded in an excellent plot and universe with characterisation that most games would kill for.

So I'm happy.

*And some would say Supreme Commander utilised most of the mechanics of 1997's Total Annihilation...

I love base building, resource gathering and building armies so I rank SC2 quite highly compared to other modern RTS.

@danieldust, and again, I ask you to define Rts. Tell me, define an RTS and show me proof of what makes a game an RTS. No one game can be the definition of a genre. By your logic, doom, quake, unreal or a celebrated shooter like halflike should be the standard by which all shooters are defined. Since those game got the formula right. Right? Despite the fact that the genre has moved forward since those days.

Or better yet, by your logic, Herzog zwei (known to be the first RTS recorded), with a vastly different gameplay style, is the standard by which all rts are judged. And since the game predated stacraft, then it should be better than starcraft 2 since it pioneered the genre.

omenodebander

It cracks me up how Blizzard haters can only come up with this "nostalgia", "reskinned SC1" and "not innovative" crap.

It gives away the fact that they don't have a clue about Blizzard games, or about strategy depth, in such a colorful and painfully obvious manner.

And hearing a "some people wonder PC gaming is dying" especially makes me roll on the floor laughing. We're talking about a Blizzard game, if anything Blizzard games are what keep PC gaming always headstrong and stalwart, neck-deep in competitiveness.

Take a look at any youtube match with Jaedong, Bisu, SlayerS_BoxerS, Savior name in it. There's your "strategy depth". 10 matches of DoW2 put together wouldn't be as deep as early scouting in one of these matches, let alone strategy and battling.

Mograine

We are by no means Blizzard 'haters,' I, and i'm pretty sure whats his face who's been quoting danieldust, think Starcraft 2 is a good game. I'd just like to say that the game feels very dated to play compared to more recent Relic games, especially the depth of the combat.

Games like Company of Heroes take front-lines, cover, changing terrain, and territorial control into account so that you need to be thinking about a lot more than just destroying the enemy base and farming enough resources. just because the game is more combat focused doesn't mean its any less of a strategy game, its just faster paced and more frantic.

polish isn't everything. I personally think Relic is a better dev because each game they release, apart from Homeworld 2, has been significantly different from every other game released by the company. Even when they had wild success with CoH they changed up the formula a LOT with Dawn of War II, then changed it again with Chaos Rising. There is more to a sequel than the continuation of the story and a few new units and shinier graphics. A sequel needs to do more than address the obvious problems of the original.

After 12 years, we get a sequel that feels like it was developed in 1 or 2.

I'm not a fan of the classic RTS model. Base building just seems like outdated and unneeded micromanagement. Games like Ground Control, Men of War, World in Conflict, and Dawn of War 2 got it right, an RTS that revolves around combat should be pure combat and focus on it. Men of War might not be the prettiest game but in my opinion has some of the most detailed environments, a true cover system, tons of units, 5 factions, armor penetration, ammo management, the works and yet its held in a lower light than a game that essentially hasn't evolved beyond 1998. World in Conflict offered some of the most epic battles I've ever seen in multiplayer with infantry ambushing tanks, artillery blasting apart towns, napalm incinerating forests, and nukes decimating the countryside all while helicopters, tanks, and infantry blasted one another apart on a massive map. So when I see a game like Starcraft 2 and watch multiplayer matches where the first ten minutes is just players setting up extra bases and spamming units I can't help but feel the whole thing looks a little old and boring.

there you go repeating yourself and being immature. You keep going on and on about "standard of rts". Yet you fail to answer my question, show me proof of your definition. Where does it say base building must tcome first. Itold you Herzog zwei plays very differently from starcraft or dune or CnC, and yet it's credited as the pioneer of the genre. Until you show me genuine proof, not fanboy filled proof or nolstagia filled proof, but true proof of why you say RTS must have base building, until you do so, you will come across as a true fanatic and one who fails to understand why this game is unworthy of all the praise you show it.

Furthermore, supreme commander 2 was a step because they cater to new comers to the franchise by OVER simplify the game . It wasn't becuase they were trying to innovate or anything like that.

as for the poster who used men of war as an example. Spot on. Men of war's gameplay takes into account a lot of detail on the battlefield that is sorely lacking in a lot of games today. Starcraft 2 is a good game, but compared to a lot of games like dow 2, men of war and world in conflict, jeez the combat feels dated. It's like playing a graphically enhanced broodwar with a new patch.

I f the gaming world goes crazy over something like this, then sad to say, I feel sorry for pc gaming.

omenodebanderis a biased hater so his opinion is irrelevant.

a lot of people are neck deep in nolstagia that they're quick to ignore the advances in the rts genre. To say that starcraft 2 even matches or surpasses the recent giants in the genre is just pure blizzard fanboyism. A polished game does not = the best game of them all. Stracraft 2 is good, maybe even great, but really, it's like CnC 3 all over again. Gloss up an old game with shinier graphics and a few tweak, but its's still the same game. To say that starcraft 2 matches the quality of company of heroes or the combat depth found in Dow 2 ? jeez, I can understand you paid $60 bucks for the game, but come.

omenodebander

I think the best way to say it this: The very same reasons you cant seem to see why i think WiC and CoH are better than SC2 are the same exact reasons you can't seem to see why SC2 is so great and why its a large advancement over SC1 and not just "broodwars with a new patch."

Personally, i've gotten bored with most of the games i've listed. Im really only actively playing Empire, Kings Bounty: Armored Princess, Disciples 3, and the Elemental beta. I'll easily say Empire is better than every other strategy game i've listed except for Starcraft 2.

sigh, danieldust, you truly are a fanatic fanboy. I've played all those games, and you want to know how I felt after playing world in conflict, ground control, dow 2? It was fresh air. Gone was the dated formula that plagued CnC 3 . This was what pc gaming was all about. Going the distance, evolving, taking great strides and breathing new life into genre. But later on, READING so many "pc gaming is dying topics",and now watching people overhyping a remake of an old game.

I am saddened. You still fail to answer my question and all you do is repeat the same old, "but starcraft did this and that". Yet failing to provide proof of what makes an RTS an Rts. Just because people still play an old game, doesn't make it the best. Hell, I still play Clive barker's undying and I'm willing to acknowledge the out dated nature of the game.

omenodebanderis a biased hater so his opinion is irrelevant.

Rawtheory333

omenodebanderis a biased hater so his opinion is irrelevant.

omenodebanderis a biased hater so his opinion is irrelevant.

^

they will tell you "It's more balanced", "It has base building" or "It's made by blizzard"

As long as there isBlizzard and Relic, RTS will never die. And stop the mindless bickering please.

so kieranb200, your logic is , a game must have base building or else it becomes too simple?

Holy cow.

^

they will tell you "It's more balanced", "It has base building" or "It's made by blizzard"

omenodebander

[QUOTE="omenodebander"]

^

they will tell you "It's more balanced", "It has base building" or "It's made by blizzard"

kieranb2000