The Irony of Game Ratings

All this Manhunt crap has really got me thinking; Ive seen a lot worse, and no one has complained.

Ive played Falcon 4.0 (a real simulator) that essentially teaches me how to fly a plane without being in the actual thing. Ive killed thousands of N. Korean soldiers, and on the way home Ive dumped my extra ammunition onto some innocent villages, killing countless civilians with my Mk. 84 2000lb bombs. Im sure if I wanted to I could problably do it for real if I wanted too (I'd have to be in Korea first though).

I've played Hitman: Blood Money and replayed the same mission over and over again because I like killing a mobster's wife repeatedly, be it poison, a rigged BBQ, or a knife to the throat (which elaborately sprays blood on the drapes). I also enjoy shooting glass-bottomed jacusis and watching four inncocent pornstars fall to their death so I can eliminate my target.

Ive played the DEFCON demo where I annihilate whole countries with nukes.

I've played FEAR where, in slow motion detail, I have shot the heads off of enemies and severed torsos in half.

I've played Gears of War where I take a chainsaw to an enemy and cut him from head to groin as he screams the whole time! And I loved every second of it for dozens of repeated chainsawings.

Ive snuck up on prison guards and snapped their necks in The Chronicles of Riddick. Oh ya, I also stuck screw drviers, shards of glass, and other pointy things into people's kidneys and other soft parts.

All of those wonderful times, and I still havent counted all the movies I have seen over the years, many of which were viewed at a very young age.

So to sum up to all you prudes out there, the damage is done (that is, if there were any damage to inflict). One more game wont make a difference.

But enough about me, what are your guys' more violent gaming moments (PC and console)?

maybe those things are child's play in Manhunt 2 (evil laughter)

Don't blame the prudes, blame those who cannot raise thier own children.

Now excuse me while I kill a few sailors, and sink this passenger ship in Silent Hunter 4.

If anything games are NOT violent enough.

Having played the original Manhunt, i can say that I have seen a lot worse, both in other games and films.

I dont know about you guys, but there is a point in entertainment where if gore reaches such as excessive level, its just downright funny.

Just look at Peter Jackson's earlier films such as "Bad Taste" and "Dead Alive", and Takashi Miike's "Ichi the Killer;" those films are way more gory than anything I have ever seen, and once you get past the shock value it really doesnt faze you too much.

Manhunt is a different kind of violence from what you describe. The games you mention are all violent and bloody, sure. But all you do is what? You shoot people. And thats ok with Today's society, as seen in movies, tv, all over the place. In Manhunt (and Postal series for that matter) you go out and you kill people with the most violent ways, and its almost never guns (postal) or sometimes with guns (manhunt). Either way, you are so much more INVOLVED in killing someone in Manhunt (per say) than in FEAR, because in FEAR you are shooting bullets at enemies, its your run of the mill FPS. In your flight sim, you are dropping bombs. Thats fine, thats not BRUTAL violence. In Manhunt tho, you CHOOSE how to kill someone, it makes you THINK of how to kill a person, and its much worse for your mental health, than thinking of how to do your flight manouver (flight sim) or how to out-flank and suprise your enemies (FEAR).

And thats the point here, Manhunt/postal hit it home alot more than any other games in terms of making you have morally wrong ideas (how to kill this guy) and then actually enjoying seeing the results. Postal/Manhunt are ALOT more dangerous to kids' minds than any GTA game, so I think everyone is looking the wrong way when it comes to game violence that has negative effects on kids. But thats a whole new rant...

Manhunt is a different kind of violence from what you describe. The games you mention are all violent and bloody, sure. But all you do is what? You shoot people. And thats ok with Today's society, as seen in movies, tv, all over the place. In Manhunt (and Postal series for that matter) you go out and you kill people with the most violent ways, and its almost never guns (postal) or sometimes with guns (manhunt). Either way, you are so much more INVOLVED in killing someone in Manhunt (per say) than in FEAR, because in FEAR you are shooting bullets at enemies, its your run of the mill FPS. In your flight sim, you are dropping bombs. Thats fine, thats not BRUTAL violence. In Manhunt tho, you CHOOSE how to kill someone, it makes you THINK of how to kill a person, and its much worse for your mental health, than thinking of how to do your flight manouver (flight sim) or how to out-flank and suprise your enemies (FEAR).

And thats the point here, Manhunt/postal hit it home alot more than any other games in terms of making you have morally wrong ideas (how to kill this guy) and then actually enjoying seeing the results. Postal/Manhunt are ALOT more dangerous to kids' minds than any GTA game, so I think everyone is looking the wrong way when it comes to game violence that has negative effects on kids. But thats a whole new rant...

The_PC_Gamer

THats a very good point. THanks for bringing that up as I have never played the original Manhunt game.

So sure, some of the examples I listed arent the most violent, but what about Hitman? There must be a dozen ways to kill each victim in each mission, and a lot of them are horrifically violent, i.e. setting a woman on fire and then having her drop into a tank full of sharks.

The way you kill people is more to the point of a gruesome serial killer then any of the games you mentioned.. Shooting a person imo is far different then disembowling a person with a screw driver...

THats a very good point. THanks for bringing that up as I have never played the original Manhunt game.So sure, some of the examples I listed arent the most violent, but what about Hitman? There must be a dozen ways to kill each victim in each mission, and a lot of them are horrifically violent, i.e. setting a woman on fire and then having her drop into a tank full of sharks.mrbojangles25

Well you are still not doing torture or something extremely violent. I'd rather have the person set on fire and then dumped into a shark tank, rather then search my environment for a blunt object and then choose how to best kill that person with the object. And again, I emphasize that the thought process is very different, and so as Nazaric said, Manhunt/postal are the worst games/series ever created in terms of violence, and the ratings system is just fine as it is when it comes to extreme stuff like that.

I think that because Manhunt 2 has extremely graphic depictions of brutal killings is the very reason that game should be very accesable. Games like allow us to get our fix of violence without out actually going out and hurting someone. Someone who is extremely violent whould require a game such as Manhunt and if he didn't get this fix of violence through manhunt since some groups won't allow "Adult Only" games to be sold he would have to resort to going to the nearest supermarket and go kill someone with a leg of ham and a pack of doritos and, that someone could be your mother. I may be wrong on this but, the Australian Governmant and the top of which is the Queen of England don't allow Adult only Games to be sold in Aus.

So in short the Queen of England has effectively killed you mother with a leg of ham and a pack of doritos by not allowing Manhunt 2 to be in australian stores.

Hopefully I got all my facts straight, some of you might realsie that I'm using a similar agrument to that for the justification of Prostitution and Pornography.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]THats a very good point. THanks for bringing that up as I have never played the original Manhunt game.So sure, some of the examples I listed arent the most violent, but what about Hitman? There must be a dozen ways to kill each victim in each mission, and a lot of them are horrifically violent, i.e. setting a woman on fire and then having her drop into a tank full of sharks.The_PC_Gamer

Well you are still not doing torture or something extremely violent. I'd rather have the person set on fire and then dumped into a shark tank, rather then search my environment for a blunt object and then choose how to best kill that person with the object. And again, I emphasize that the thought process is very different, and so as Nazaric said, Manhunt/postal are the worst games/series ever created in terms of violence, and the ratings system is just fine as it is when it comes to extreme stuff like that.

Ya, its one thing to give a player a knife/gun/sharp stick and say "go kill this person" but quite another to force them to come up with their own diabolical solution.

Can't wait for Manhunt 2 :)

I've seen far worse things watching the evening news than I've ever seen or done in a computer game, yet I don't see news broadcasts getting an age rating.

Where else can you see daily footage of bomb blasts, burnt corpses, people missing limbs, burnt out military vehicles with people inside. When somebody gets murdered we get a media frenzy about it - each newspaper trying to get the "best" photos to sell its papers.

The OP summed it up excellently with lots of games I've played, as well as more not there, that have let me kill, butcher and maim 1000's of characters from countless games, but not once have I felt really bad for doing so - because all they are is games. I shoot people in games without a second thought - because its a game - it doesn't make me want to do it in real life. If I want to see realistic blood, guts and gore I will turn on the news.

Getting Manhunt banned will only make it an incredibly popular game. The ESRB have refused it a rating in the UK, but their own study into the effects of banning previous games have shown that more people buy it just because it has been banned, to see what all the fuss is about. Getting banned is just a load of free advertising.

The difference between Manhunt and other violent games, including Postal, is that Manhunt is violence for the sake of violence and that is all. There is nothing to Manhunt beyond killing people for the sake of killing them in the most violent and brutal manner possible. Other violent games have something more to them than this. GTA is violent, but whether you carry out those acts of violence is up to you, because they aren't required. There is no mission in the games that has you go around and screw hookers and then beat them to death with a baseball bat after you are done to get your money back. You can do it yes, but whether or not you do this is up to you. Same goes for chainsawing guys in half in Gears, or killing people in Riddick. It's not required, and when it is there are other cleaner ways to go about doing it. Even Postal has more to it than violence for the sake of violence. Postal is violent yes, but it's supposed to be funny becase it's so over the top. I mean come on, Postal 2 has Gary Coleman in it as a pimp, and it's without a doubt one of the funniest scenes I have ever seen in any game.

Yes censorship is a b*tch, but it's there for a reason. Deal with it. I think it's funny how many people complain about this, but never played the original Manhunt. I could only suffer an hour of that game before shutting it off and vomiting in my toilet. The original should never have been released, and the second one definitely shouldn't be released as it is now, especially if it has scenes depicting rape and/or necrophilia.

I think the first poster has a mildly sick mind, but I digress. I totally agree with one of the previous posters that most violent games have you just shooting people and OCCASIONALY chainsawing them or something else. But in manhunt and postal you are for the most part either killing innocents randomly in brutal ways or choosing how to best end someones life, and the worst part is its not tasteful or justifiable in any manner.

FEAR: Enemies are cloned warriors who are prety much bad. Justifiable and done in a tasteful non-snuff movie like manner.

Unreal Tournament: I dont find it realistic enough to be considered esspecially bad at all. And even I find the shield guns gibbing effect to be amusing.

Counter strike: Not really violent, just put it in here for comparrison.

I think that because Manhunt 2 has extremely graphic depictions of brutal killings is the very reason that game should be very accesable. Games like allow us to get our fix of violence without out actually going out and hurting someone. Someone who is extremely violent whould require a game such as Manhunt and if he didn't get this fix of violence through manhunt since some groups won't allow "Adult Only" games to be sold he would have to resort to going to the nearest supermarket and go kill someone with a leg of ham and a pack of doritos...Hariman

Anyone who is so mentally unstable that they require a violence fix isn't going to magically be satiated by playing a violent game. What's next, you're going to say pedophiles should have access to kiddy porn so that they don't abduct a kid and do things to them?

Keep kidding yourself. Manhunt 2 is going to be a joke. This whole banning nonsense is absurd. I agree with the original poster, there's much worse than Manhunt, yet no one is saying anything about it.VauxhalI

So wait there is no difference between a person that guns down a person, and a Jeffery Dalmer like brutality in your eyes?

The difference between Manhunt and other violent games, including Postal, is that Manhunt is violence for the sake of violence and that is all. There is nothing to Manhunt beyond killing people for the sake of killing them in the most violent and brutal manner possible. Other violent games have something more to them than this. GTA is violent, but whether you carry out those acts of violence is up to you, because they aren't required. There is no mission in the games that has you go around and screw hookers and then beat them to death with a baseball bat after you are done to get your money back. You can do it yes, but whether or not you do this is up to you. Same goes for chainsawing guys in half in Gears, or killing people in Riddick. It's not required, and when it is there are other cleaner ways to go about doing it. Even Postal has more to it than violence for the sake of violence. Postal is violent yes, but it's supposed to be funny becase it's so over the top. I mean come on, Postal 2 has Gary Coleman in it as a pimp, and it's without a doubt one of the funniest scenes I have ever seen in any game.

Yes censorship is a b*tch, but it's there for a reason. Deal with it. I think it's funny how many people complain about this, but never played the original Manhunt. I could only suffer an hour of that game before shutting it off and vomiting in my toilet. The original should never have been released, and the second one definitely shouldn't be released as it is now, especially if it has scenes depicting rape and/or necrophilia.

Cerza

agreed

But enough about me, what are your guys' more violent gaming moments (PC and console)?mrbojangles25

UR one sick puppy ;) hehe.

One of my fav violent game moments was playing the first DOOM game. Chain sawing wave after wave of hellish critters was immensely satisfying nd a great way to unwind as it happens! Then there's using the lawnmower or seed drill / post drill (not sure what it is tbh!) in Dead Rising - Mowing zombies into tiny pieces, using their torso as a weapon and their arms and legs as blades...

Alsothere's the first time I got a beheadingin Tenchu (the original not the crappy sequels). They toned this down for us poor UK peeps by making itlesslikely to happen(we really do need protecting u see). I thought I was seeing things and thankfully they protected my porr little mind in the sequels by using motion blur to cover up silent kill moves :( I was gutted - well teh nme were I was merely diappointed. Naturally this has affected my ability to lay down the Ninja kick ass ever since...

There's alsonumerous games with chainsaws, flame throwers and screaming...And of course who can forget playing Soldier of Fortune to blow body parts off (no other reason to play that game or it's sequel as far as I could tell...) or Postal 2...orSniping dudes in numerous games for that lovely "Brain Art" shot - you know the one I mean :)

But, following this and the numerous simulators I've also played in which killing is the main theme - albeit in the name of peace /freedom / anti terrorism etc - none of them were banned.

Oh and I didn't turn into a mass murderer or serial killer.

I've noidea what Manhunt 2 is really like but I think, to some degree,Rockstar have dug this hole themselves. The hot coffee problem has not been forgotten (it was embarrasing for not only Rockstar / take two / but also for the variosu international ratings boards who ende dup looking stupidand I personally feel that they are gonna find it hard to get their games out now - regardless of what the game is like they are now being targetted by ratings boards.

Let's wait and see what happens when GTA4 hits the ratings boards table...

Ade.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]THats a very good point. THanks for bringing that up as I have never played the original Manhunt game.So sure, some of the examples I listed arent the most violent, but what about Hitman? There must be a dozen ways to kill each victim in each mission, and a lot of them are horrifically violent, i.e. setting a woman on fire and then having her drop into a tank full of sharks.The_PC_Gamer

Well you are still not doing torture or something extremely violent. I'd rather have the person set on fire and then dumped into a shark tank, rather then search my environment for a blunt object and then choose how to best kill that person with the object. And again, I emphasize that the thought process is very different, and so as Nazaric said, Manhunt/postal are the worst games/series ever created in terms of violence, and the ratings system is just fine as it is when it comes to extreme stuff like that.

I say get rid of ratings. Our generations are so desensitized that sooner or later, every younger generation will be just as. I have an nine year old brother and I feel bad for this but I absolutely desensitized a nine year old as much as he could be in a simple American house hold. He has watched countless of splatter flicks with me, he has watched me play countless of games where I would just cause as much destruction as possible (e.g Slashing up somebody in Soldier of Fortune II to the highest possible gore model). Considering that I'm a gorehound, he has seen some stuff little kids aren't suppose to. But he still is normal. He absolutely loves cars and baseball, he enjoys classic rock only and watches only regular cartoons. He shows no interest at all in what I show him and I like that.

Yes I feel pretty bad having my brother see all this but sooner or later, he would have seen it anyways. Just because he is young, he still understands the fakeness in it. Whats to say that a nine year old will find it real and a sixteen year old will find it fake? It all comes down to the individual and I think its about time people realize that society isn't getting any cleaner. Especially when censorship of music and games is the least of your concerns when you got what you have on T.V.