there must be a end to this

Theres just has much upgrading with consoles. None stop nicknacks to add to it and not long after all the people bought Xbox 360 they came out with hard drive you can add and the xbox 360 elite.

And there would never be an end to upgrading consoles or pcs its a business made to suck every penny out of you. Best you can do is just get a decent pc that will last you 2-3years before having to upgrade stuff on it.

i mean that pc gamers are kind of robed with the marketing scheme relesing a dx (direct x) after another ; don't get me wrong i like the evolutin of video games (been a gamer since 1998) but having to uppgrade all the time sux , i spend a lot of cash and i bet so did every pc gamer but engouh is engouh ;they must find a way to improve games desing , just think about it ....aceruber

Change is the spice of life, my friend. I WANT games that make me upgrade - I love shiny new toys. I love firing up the latest and greatest and being mesmorized by the technical and artistic work that goes into making a modern FPS.

Of course, I am a major Graphics Whore.

I understand and expect that new advances in technology means I will have to buy that technology if I want the best performance.

What I think is a disgracefull and abuse of market share is having to buy a new Operating System as well as a new Graphics Card.

Microsoft should be totally ashamed with themselves, I certainly won't be paying for Vista until I have absolutely no choice.

I'd rather put up with less performance than cow down to these money grabbing scum at Microsoft.

This blatant abuse will surely push people into installing pirated copies of Vista rather than be exploited like this.

Neil.

This blatant abuse will surely push people into installing pirated copies of Vista rather than be exploited like this.Neil__

I doubt it. Not many people who are against pirating are going to suddenly start because a software company is being aggressive. MS has behaved like this since its inception, as have most big software firms. The same people that pirate every new track, dvd, and pc game, will pirate Vista. Nothing new here, move along.

Yeah, shame on MS for trying to make some money and function like any other corporation in the world. Where do they get off?!?

And how can you understand and expect new advances, but still expect to be able to use a 6 year old OS? Looks like somebody left their common sense at the door when they came in here, huh?

All the time? We've been using DX9 since 2002. If you can't upgrade your computer once every 5 years, you have no business playing on the PC. Don't mean to be harsh, but that's just the way it is. You can't have progress without a little sacrifice...monco59

 DX9 has been around sinsce 2002, but you can't use a 2002 graphic card to play nicelly a 2003/04 game made on DX9.

Hardware sucks. 

i mean that pc gamers are kind of robed with the marketing scheme relesing a dx (direct x)  after another   ;  don't get me wrong i like the evolutin of video games (been a gamer since 1998) but having to uppgrade all the time sux , i spend a lot of cash and i bet so did every  pc gamer but engouh is engouh ;they must find a way to improve games desing , just think about it ....aceruber

i hope there are no end to this :)

Well, MS needs money to stay in business so from that point of view, it doesnt bother me that they want to make new products and charge for them. What I dont like however, is the way they do business. I think they are dirty and take advantage of their virual monopolistic hold of the PC OS marketplace.

I for one, hate having to buy a new product with tons of features that are not needed nor wanted. I would not mind paying for upgrades to DirectX & security updates but I do not want to pay for the ms media player, outlook express, internet explorer, and various other crapware that comes bundled with windows. If there was only 1 car company around, it would be the same as being told that you have to buy the car cover, blue ray dvd player for the back seats, and a certain brand of cell phone that comes with it just so that you can have a car and drive. To me, the only reason they can get away with this is because they are practically a monopoly as both America and Europe courts have found them guilty of.

The only thing I want from Vista is updates to DX. Why cant I just buy that if I wanted to? Reason: MS makes more money by forcing you to buy more stuff. I dont blame them for wanting to make money, but the way they do it is sleezy.

i mean that pc gamers are kind of robed with the marketing scheme relesing a dx (direct x) after another ; don't get me wrong i like the evolutin of video games (been a gamer since 1998) but having to uppgrade all the time sux , i spend a lot of cash and i bet so did every pc gamer but engouh is engouh ;they must find a way to improve games desing , just think about it ....aceruber

I pity your English teacher... :?

 Yep, that's how they make bigbucks, if they stop upgrading they wont make anymore money.....Yep, we got screwed. well, just dont upgrade everytime, only once in a red moon.

Someday all you little boys will grow up and start spending money on other things than your little metal girlfriend (a.k.a. your computer)...

MetalAzz666

A lot of peope on these boards are married, dude. 

[QUOTE="MetalAzz666"]

Someday all you little boys will grow up and start spending money on other things than your little metal girlfriend (a.k.a. your computer)...

Jack_Summersby

A lot of peope on these boards are married, dude.

[QUOTE="MetalAzz666"]

Someday all you little boys will grow up and start spending money on other things than your little metal girlfriend (a.k.a. your computer)...

Jack_Summersby

A lot of peope on these boards are married, dude.

Or are in jobs and careers that afford them little extra time to do anything else.  The police academy alone is 17.5 weeks, 6 days a week, 8-12 hours a day with only Fridays off.  Doesn't exactly allow for anything more social than using my computer to stay in touch with friends and play games as stress relief.

See, this is one of the benefits of being relatively poor.  When youre poor, like myself, you dont really concern yourself with stuff like this because frankly you cant do squat about you.  I just wait til the "newest" technology is almost a generation old (i.e. I didnt get my 7600 until a month or two before Dx10 cards went out) and youre all set.

You just gotta teach yourself that the best is out of reach, and that good enough is just that...good enough to play games.  For example, as much as I want an 8800GTS I know I wont get one until the 9000 series comes out.

PS by poor I dont mean living in poverty, I mean working a blue collar job and being a student living month to month with a few bucks left over :P

there must be a end to this?

There must be an end to your bad writing. Idiot. 

[QUOTE="Jack_Summersby"][QUOTE="MetalAzz666"]

Someday all you little boys will grow up and start spending money on other things than your little metal girlfriend (a.k.a. your computer)...

Sunrie

A lot of peope on these boards are married, dude.

Or are in jobs and careers that afford them little extra time to do anything else. The police academy alone is 17.5 weeks, 6 days a week, 8-12 hours a day with only Fridays off. Doesn't exactly allow for anything more social than using my computer to stay in touch with friends and play games as stress relief.

Sounds like a lot of work.  Kick some a$$!

[QUOTE="Sunrie"][QUOTE="Jack_Summersby"][QUOTE="MetalAzz666"]

Someday all you little boys will grow up and start spending money on other things than your little metal girlfriend (a.k.a. your computer)...

Jack_Summersby

A lot of peope on these boards are married, dude.

Or are in jobs and careers that afford them little extra time to do anything else. The police academy alone is 17.5 weeks, 6 days a week, 8-12 hours a day with only Fridays off. Doesn't exactly allow for anything more social than using my computer to stay in touch with friends and play games as stress relief.

Sounds like a lot of work.  Kick some a$$!

Yea, go kick some ass.  Just take it easy on the stoners...honestly, they dont hurt anyone and their money just goes to support some out-of-work farmer who lost his job to evil real estate developers.

i mean that pc gamers are kind of robed with the marketing scheme relesing a dx (direct x)  after another   ;  don't get me wrong i like the evolutin of video games (been a gamer since 1998) but having to uppgrade all the time sux , i spend a lot of cash and i bet so did every  pc gamer but engouh is engouh ;they must find a way to improve games desing , just think about it ....aceruber

This will never end.  As long as new, better, faster hardware comes out every year, there will be games that will come out to take advantage of that hardware.  Usually that will take three years for software to catch up.

Spending $1,000 or less on a bare minimum gaming pc isnt going to last you long as you want.  If you dont want to upgrade every year, spend at least $1500.  It may seem alot, this is just the nature of pc gaming.

I myself bought a pc about three years ago.  Spent the money so it would last at least three years.  Now that three years is up and I ordered a new pc.  So you arent alone here in spending lots of money for a hobby we both love.

You guys have to remember that in some countries (most, actually) pcs are very expensive.

A simple PC without dual-core, with a medium-range DX9 card and 1gb of ram is at least $1,000 (yep... in dollars)

Maybe looking to the window most of you will start to think differently. 

You guys have to remember that in some countries (most, actually) pcs are very expensive.

A simple PC without dual-core, with a medium-range DX9 card and 1gb of ram is at least $1,000 (yep... in dollars)

Maybe looking to the window most of you will start to think differently.

Phelaidar

That's true but that doesn't affect us much, if at all. It still doesn't change the fact that upgrading is fun when you have a fat wallet and that it's necessary to improve if those companies want to stay afloat.

If you want the prices in those countries to fall, go over there and create demand or lower the taxes on pc imports. That's the only way it will get done. 

You guys have to remember that in some countries (most, actually) pcs are very expensive.

A simple PC without dual-core, with a medium-range DX9 card and 1gb of ram is at least $1,000 (yep... in dollars)

Maybe looking to the window most of you will start to think differently. 

Phelaidar

Why in god's name would I care about the prices for PC's in some other country?  So it sucks for you..oh well...that's the price you pay for living in that country.  I am sure there are good things about whatever country you are from, but comming here complaining about pc prices in other countries pretty much falls on deaf ears.

Why would that make me think different?  The prices are reasonable in the US, does another country paying alot more diminish my game enjoyment?  I think not...

i mean that pc gamers are kind of robed with the marketing scheme relesing a dx (direct x) after another ; don't get me wrong i like the evolutin of video games (been a gamer since 1998) but having to uppgrade all the time sux , i spend a lot of cash and i bet so did every pc gamer but engouh is engouh ;they must find a way to improve games desing , just think about it ....aceruber

The changes to future versions of dx, after dx10, are supposed to be more incremental than previously.  Hopefullly that will cool things off in terms of hardware upgrades required to play new games.  I agree, $1.5-3.5 k is a lot to spend every two or three years or so to be able to run the lastest games.  

Theres just has much upgrading with consoles. None stop nicknacks to add to it and not long after all the people bought Xbox 360 they came out with hard drive you can add and the xbox 360 elite.

And there would never be an end to upgrading consoles or pcs its a business made to suck every penny out of you. Best you can do is just get a decent pc that will last you 2-3years before having to upgrade stuff on it.

Sleepyz

[QUOTE="Phelaidar"]

You guys have to remember that in some countries (most, actually) pcs are very expensive.

A simple PC without dual-core, with a medium-range DX9 card and 1gb of ram is at least $1,000 (yep... in dollars)

Maybe looking to the window most of you will start to think differently.

dnuggs40

Why in god's name would I care about the prices for PC's in some other country? So it sucks for you..oh well...that's the price you pay for living in that country. I am sure there are good things about whatever country you are from, but comming here complaining about pc prices in other countries pretty much falls on deaf ears.

Why would that make me think different? The prices are reasonable in the US, does another country paying alot more diminish my game enjoyment? I think not...

QFT

Phelaidar, get off your high horse before you hurt yourself.

I'm sorry, but the whole "why should I have to pay for a new version of DirectX" argument is stupid. DX10 utilizes certain aspects of the Windows Vista core that can't be replicated on Windows XP. Therefore, if you want to play games in DX10, you're going to have to bite the bullet and upgrade your OS. But you don't have to play games -- the small number that actually exist -- in DX10. So far, there has been absolutely no evidence to support the idea that DX10 presents large improvements over DX9, and that is coming straight out of the mouths of developers. Furthermore, I guarantee you that all DX10 games released in at least the next few years will support DX9. And hey, if you upgrade to a DX10 graphics card down the road, you'll get a nice little performance/quality boost in those games. Nobody is losing here. And anyway, the more important fact is that driver support for DX9 games (among other things) in Vista is horrible right now. Not only do you not have to run out and purchase Vista to play games, but you probably shouldn't! Until both ATI and Nvidia can get their drivers (specifically in the OpenGL department) in order, don't expect Vista to be your gaming utopia. And still, no one is forcing you to migrate. As for the issue of upgrading: Who the ---- is spending $1,500 on upgrades?! Anyone spending more than about $600 on upgrades is getting sorely ripped off. Stop shopping at Best Buy and then coming in here to complain about it. And somone earlier in this thread mentioned that you can't use a graphics card from 2002 to smoothly play a DX9 game from 2003/2004. Actually, my Radeon 9800 Pro runs Half-Life 2, Doom 3, Oblivion and Far Cry just fine at 1,024x768. Of course, I can't speak for everyone, but personally, I don't need 40 extra frames per second to conquer evil. 8)JN_Fenrir

^^What he said 

Someday all you little boys will grow up and start spending money on other things than your little metal girlfriend (a.k.a. your computer)...

MetalAzz666

Let me guess, you created a profile just so you could say that, didn't you? I pity you, I really do... 

I'm sorry, but the whole "why should I have to pay for a new version of DirectX" argument is stupid. DX10 utilizes certain aspects of the Windows Vista core that can't be replicated on Windows XP. Therefore, if you want to play games in DX10, you're going to have to bite the bullet and upgrade your OS. But you don't have to play games -- the small number that actually exist -- in DX10. So far, there has been absolutely no evidence to support the idea that DX10 presents large improvements over DX9, and that is coming straight out of the mouths of developers. Furthermore, I guarantee you that all DX10 games released in at least the next few years will support DX9. And hey, if you upgrade to a DX10 graphics card down the road, you'll get a nice little performance/quality boost in those games. Nobody is losing here. And anyway, the more important fact is that driver support for DX9 games (among other things) in Vista is horrible right now. Not only do you not have to run out and purchase Vista to play games, but you probably shouldn't! Until both ATI and Nvidia can get their drivers (specifically in the OpenGL department) in order, don't expect Vista to be your gaming utopia. And still, no one is forcing you to migrate. As for the issue of upgrading: Who the ---- is spending $1,500 on upgrades?! Anyone spending more than about $600 on upgrades is getting sorely ripped off. Stop shopping at Best Buy and then coming in here to complain about it. And somone earlier in this thread mentioned that you can't use a graphics card from 2002 to smoothly play a DX9 game from 2003/2004. Actually, my Radeon 9800 Pro runs Half-Life 2, Doom 3, Oblivion and Far Cry just fine at 1,024x768. Of course, I can't speak for everyone, but personally, I don't need 40 extra frames per second to conquer evil. 8)JN_Fenrir

Agree for the most part. Only argument I have is why make a DX10 based on Vista features when it doesnt improve much and actually rolls back some previous improvements? The only reason they did is to force people over to Vista. They could have just as easily made a DX10 that works on both Vista and XP but they didnt. Hell I would have happily even paid for DX10 on XP if it were an option and at a reasonable price. All this is moot though.

Im still running an X700 on an AMD 64 3500. No issues whatsoever. I may only get 30 fps on some new games but everything works fine and I still havent run into a game that I cant run in some mode. Like many Wii fans, I dont need to have the highest quality graphics to enjoy gameplay. My cost 2.5 years ago when i upgraded was about $220 for the new card and board. Same old PC2700 memory, same old HD's (I even have a 40gig in there) and same old media drives. My next upgrade will probably require me to get a new PSU and memory but even then I wouldnt go over $400 and at this time I have no reason to upgrade.

You guys have to remember that in some countries (most, actually) pcs are very expensive.

A simple PC without dual-core, with a medium-range DX9 card and 1gb of ram is at least $1,000 (yep... in dollars)

Maybe looking to the window most of you will start to think differently.

Phelaidar

Some countries only pay 25 cents per gallon of gas too. I don't see Big Oil coming to our rescue. 

Personally, I hope little 6 year old third-world children are building pc components so that we can get them cheaper. With all that on-the-job training they could probably grow up to go to ITT or even MIT. We're supporting the children of the future and that's the American way.

Some countries only pay 25 cents per gallon of gas too. I don't see Big Oil coming to our rescue.

Personally, I hope little 6 year old third-world children are building pc components so that we can get them cheaper. With all that on-the-job training they could probably grow up to go to ITT or even MIT. We're supporting the children of the future and that's the American way.

jpkustra

And we wonder why the world hates us :|  . Funny thing is many Americans hate france because they sometime display the same arrogance.

You will be happy to know that a lot of countries also pay a lot more for gas than we do. Some countries pay around $12/gallon and have 50% tax and pay extra for PC upgrades. Although this has nothing to do with your situation which you happened to stumble upon by pure chance (if you were born here), I dont think rubbing it into the face of other people is a very nice thing to do. And saying that you dont care if other children are used as slave labor is pretty 5tupid as well.

Agree for the most part. Only argument I have is why make a DX10 based on Vista features when it doesnt improve much and actually rolls back some previous improvements? The only reason they did is to force people over to Vista. They could have just as easily made a DX10 that works on both Vista and XP but they didnt. Hell I would have happily even paid for DX10 on XP if it were an option and at a reasonable price. All this is moot though.

marc5477

[QUOTE="Phelaidar"]

You guys have to remember that in some countries (most, actually) pcs are very expensive.

A simple PC without dual-core, with a medium-range DX9 card and 1gb of ram is at least $1,000 (yep... in dollars)

Maybe looking to the window most of you will start to think differently.

dnuggs40

Why in god's name would I care about the prices for PC's in some other country? So it sucks for you..oh well...that's the price you pay for living in that country. I am sure there are good things about whatever country you are from, but comming here complaining about pc prices in other countries pretty much falls on deaf ears.

Why would that make me think different? The prices are reasonable in the US, does another country paying alot more diminish my game enjoyment? I think not...

This is maybe the most stupid answer i've ever seen, you know, that describes your whole personality

that's the price you pay for living in that country

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"][QUOTE="Phelaidar"]

You guys have to remember that in some countries (most, actually) pcs are very expensive.

A simple PC without dual-core, with a medium-range DX9 card and 1gb of ram is at least $1,000 (yep... in dollars)

Maybe looking to the window most of you will start to think differently.

astor47

Why in god's name would I care about the prices for PC's in some other country? So it sucks for you..oh well...that's the price you pay for living in that country. I am sure there are good things about whatever country you are from, but comming here complaining about pc prices in other countries pretty much falls on deaf ears.

Why would that make me think different? The prices are reasonable in the US, does another country paying alot more diminish my game enjoyment? I think not...

This is maybe the most stupid answer i've ever seen, you know, that describes your whole personality

that's the price you pay for living in that country

You are a fool, and missed the point entirely. 

For instance...in the US gas cost $3-$4 a gallon, and in other countries, it costs as little as $0.25 a gallon.  That is the price we pay for living in America.  Some things are more expensive, some are cheaper.  Now, am I going to go on a car website and b*** about a new car becuase the MPG are too high for me to comfortably afford filling up the tank?  Not to mention, do you see OPEC comming to my rescue and filling my tank or making my gas less expensive?  NOPE!  It's part of reality, supply and demand, and all sorts of other stuff you obviously are oblivous to.

If you live in a country where pc gaming is too expensive...TOO BAD!  It's not my fault, it's not pc game developer's fault, it's the freakin country you live in's fault.  Get with reality would ya? ;)

Thanks for playing!

[QUOTE="jpkustra"]

Some countries only pay 25 cents per gallon of gas too. I don't see Big Oil coming to our rescue.

Personally, I hope little 6 year old third-world children are building pc components so that we can get them cheaper. With all that on-the-job training they could probably grow up to go to ITT or even MIT. We're supporting the children of the future and that's the American way.

marc5477

And we wonder why the world hates us :|  . Funny thing is many Americans hate france because they sometime display the same arrogance.

You will be happy to know that a lot of countries also pay a lot more for gas than we do. Some countries pay around $12/gallon and have 50% tax and pay extra for PC upgrades. Although this has nothing to do with your situation which you happened to stumble upon by pure chance (if you were born here), I dont think rubbing it into the face of other people is a very nice thing to do. And saying that you dont care if other children are used as slave labor is pretty 5tupid as well.

@jpkustra

Your "personal" comment is completely out of place. "I hope little 6 year old third-world children are building pc components so that we can get them cheaper". Nice way to support "the children of the future". I wonder how will you feel if someone you know has one of his children in that situation. This has nothing to do with the subject of the thread, but to be honest I find the post of this guy completely arrogant and selfish.

Goign back to the thread, it sure sucks to have to upgrade your computer, but its a necessary evil. But thats the way it is, and we cant change it. So the only "solution" is to try to make regular upgrades and not buy the latest hardware when its released. Like mrbojanlges said, wait until the technology gets a generation old and then upgrade. It makes a lot of sense

Actually when I visited the UK several years ago the price for petro was 4 pounds.. I shudder to think what it is now.

According to Glenn Beck the price of gas (adjusted for inflation) should be around the 7 USD mark... We have cheap gas.. granted not as cheap as other countries like Argentina (for example) But, its way cheaper if you factor in inflation in say the 1970s.

People complain about the prices for comps.. the first IBM PC was 2,200 USD. Now factor in inflation.. and you would be spending close to 7000 USD for that comp.. 

PCs as well as electronic media in general is on the average becoming more affordable. Heck the minimum wage was increased to 7.25 in the US.. (effective in 2009) (I expect a raise when it hits.. its only fair)

Also Europe sells way way more PC Games than console games.. 60% of all PC Games are sold in Europe.. and piracy is more rampant in Europe.. so much for that piracy argument.. (Source: Games For Windows March Edition) 

I could say that the price of Coke is on the rise.. after all I used to spend 5 cents for a pop back in the 1950s.. course I got paid maybe a buck an hour.. lol

[QUOTE="jpkustra"]

Some countries only pay 25 cents per gallon of gas too. I don't see Big Oil coming to our rescue.

Personally, I hope little 6 year old third-world children are building pc components so that we can get them cheaper. With all that on-the-job training they could probably grow up to go to ITT or even MIT. We're supporting the children of the future and that's the American way.

marc5477

And we wonder why the world hates us :| . Funny thing is many Americans hate france because they sometime display the same arrogance.

You will be happy to know that a lot of countries also pay a lot more for gas than we do. Some countries pay around $12/gallon and have 50% tax and pay extra for PC upgrades. Although this has nothing to do with your situation which you happened to stumble upon by pure chance (if you were born here), I dont think rubbing it into the face of other people is a very nice thing to do. And saying that you dont care if other children are used as slave labor is pretty 5tupid as well.

So long as these people support their socialist governments, they get exactly what they deserve.  High prices, crushing taxes, and stil there's social unrest.  Maybe it's a coincidence?

[QUOTE="marc5477"][QUOTE="jpkustra"]

Some countries only pay 25 cents per gallon of gas too. I don't see Big Oil coming to our rescue.

Personally, I hope little 6 year old third-world children are building pc components so that we can get them cheaper. With all that on-the-job training they could probably grow up to go to ITT or even MIT. We're supporting the children of the future and that's the American way.

Jack_Summersby

And we wonder why the world hates us :| . Funny thing is many Americans hate france because they sometime display the same arrogance.

You will be happy to know that a lot of countries also pay a lot more for gas than we do. Some countries pay around $12/gallon and have 50% tax and pay extra for PC upgrades. Although this has nothing to do with your situation which you happened to stumble upon by pure chance (if you were born here), I dont think rubbing it into the face of other people is a very nice thing to do. And saying that you dont care if other children are used as slave labor is pretty 5tupid as well.

So long as these people support their socialist governments, they get exactly what they deserve. High prices, crushing taxes, and stil there's social unrest. Maybe it's a coincidence?

You could argue that the lack of higher education also supports these goverments.. and the common peon can't do squat about it.

Sure they could pick up some musketts and shoot at the tanks while the governmental soldiers laugh at their compressed iron ballistics.. but heck the US can't fix the world's problems. I often doubt our own government gives a damn about its own citizens.. Yes, Kent State, and the Watts Riots are "old" considering the common age of PC gamers.. but we can also see the LA Riots, and the Immigration rally in MacArther (sp) Park as examples of the still "status quo" govenrment. This is why militaristic organizations such as the Black Panthers, NOI (Nation of Islam), and the SLA (see Patty Hearst) tried to change the government of the US forceably.. of course they failed. Heck even the Branch Davidian compound was also a prime example of how things still haven't changed.

"the more things change the more they stay the same".

[QUOTE="marc5477"][QUOTE="jpkustra"]

Some countries only pay 25 cents per gallon of gas too. I don't see Big Oil coming to our rescue.

Personally, I hope little 6 year old third-world children are building pc components so that we can get them cheaper. With all that on-the-job training they could probably grow up to go to ITT or even MIT. We're supporting the children of the future and that's the American way.

Jack_Summersby

And we wonder why the world hates us :| . Funny thing is many Americans hate france because they sometime display the same arrogance.

You will be happy to know that a lot of countries also pay a lot more for gas than we do. Some countries pay around $12/gallon and have 50% tax and pay extra for PC upgrades. Although this has nothing to do with your situation which you happened to stumble upon by pure chance (if you were born here), I dont think rubbing it into the face of other people is a very nice thing to do. And saying that you dont care if other children are used as slave labor is pretty 5tupid as well.

So long as these people support their socialist governments, they get exactly what they deserve. High prices, crushing taxes, and stil there's social unrest. Maybe it's a coincidence?

You do know that sweden has generally has a socialist government and they're one of the richest countries in the world?(GDP per capita, unemployment, etc.) Hell, even canada's economic system is somewhat socialist as well. There is generally nothing wrong with socialism as long as it's not a pure socialist economy.(Then again there's no such thing as a pure socialist, communist, or capitalist economy anyway and they would all be bad anyway)

I think you're mistaking socialism for communism.