What should I get the hd 4870 or the gtx 260?

Does your motherboard support Crossfire or SLI?supercubedude64

get teh GTX260 Core 216 from BFG, the OCX one
its only 1% behind the GTX280 in most games

also i hav a 4870 and had to make this decision a month ago, i really wish i got the GTX260, even the normal one
the ATI drivers actually really suck

im still gonna stick with it but when i get my new rig in Q3 2009 im gonna be going Nvidia unless ATI works wonders with its driversLehman

Funny how it just takes one disgruntled user (who probably has an issue with his entire PC) to say that the entire ATI Catalyst Crew sucks at making drivers.

I suggest you hit up the following sites for full reviews:

www.anandtech.com

www.techreport.com

www.bit-tech.net

www.xbitlabs.com

[QUOTE="Lehman"]get teh GTX260 Core 216 from BFG, the OCX one
its only 1% behind the GTX280 in most games

also i hav a 4870 and had to make this decision a month ago, i really wish i got the GTX260, even the normal one
the ATI drivers actually really suck

im still gonna stick with it but when i get my new rig in Q3 2009 im gonna be going Nvidia unless ATI works wonders with its driversWesker776

Funny how it just takes one disgruntled user (who probably has an issue with his entire PC) to say that the entire ATI Catalyst Crew sucks at making drivers.

I suggest you hit up the following sites for full reviews:

www.anandtech.com

www.techreport.com

www.bit-tech.net

www.xbitlabs.com

As a fellow ATI user, I agree with Lehman, ATI drivers suck it big time. I hear way more complaints about ATI drivers over Nvidia, and it seems the people complaining are usually using ATI, and not just some Nvidia Fanboy.

I find it funny how some people just disregard other negative experiences when they seem to disagree with their feeling about the company. This goes for both sides, Green and Red.

I am sure Nvidia has their negative, I would not know though as I have not used Nvidia in years, but the drivers are definitely a negative for ATI IMHO.

[QUOTE="Wesker776"]

[QUOTE="Lehman"]get teh GTX260 Core 216 from BFG, the OCX one
its only 1% behind the GTX280 in most games

also i hav a 4870 and had to make this decision a month ago, i really wish i got the GTX260, even the normal one
the ATI drivers actually really suck

im still gonna stick with it but when i get my new rig in Q3 2009 im gonna be going Nvidia unless ATI works wonders with its driversopamando

Funny how it just takes one disgruntled user (who probably has an issue with his entire PC) to say that the entire ATI Catalyst Crew sucks at making drivers.

I suggest you hit up the following sites for full reviews:

www.anandtech.com

www.techreport.com

www.bit-tech.net

www.xbitlabs.com

As a fellow ATI user, I agree with Lehman, ATI drivers suck it big time. I hear way more complaints about ATI drivers over Nvidia, and it seems the people complaining are usually using ATI, and not just some Nvidia Fanboy.

I find it funny how some people just disregard other negative experiences when they seem to disagree with their feeling about the company. This goes for both sides, Green and Red.

I am sure Nvidia has their negative, I would not know though as I have not used Nvidia in years, but the drivers are definitely a negative for ATI IMHO.

Not even statistics support the arguement that ATI's drivers are dodgy.

Once you factor out third parties that are responsible for driver crashes (i.e. ignore vendors other than ATI and Nvidia), Nvidia's drivers were responsible for 75.6% of Vista driver related crashes. The other 24.6% being ATI's.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/27/nvidia-drivers-responsible-for-nearly-30-of-vista-crashes-in-20/

Further more, I've been dealing with both Nvidia and ATI drivers on a range of PC's, and I have yet to find any issue with the ATI drivers. That's not even mentioning the fact that I use ATI cards for my high end gaming/workstation rig, which is presented to more potential instabilities compared to my entertainment/casual rigs.

If you're having driver problems with ATI, then chances are that you are either incompetent or have a issue elsewhere with your PC. I'm not saying that ATI drivers are perfect, but they're far from being "negative".

[QUOTE="opamando"][QUOTE="Wesker776"]

[QUOTE="Lehman"]get teh GTX260 Core 216 from BFG, the OCX one
its only 1% behind the GTX280 in most games

also i hav a 4870 and had to make this decision a month ago, i really wish i got the GTX260, even the normal one
the ATI drivers actually really suck

im still gonna stick with it but when i get my new rig in Q3 2009 im gonna be going Nvidia unless ATI works wonders with its driversWesker776

Funny how it just takes one disgruntled user (who probably has an issue with his entire PC) to say that the entire ATI Catalyst Crew sucks at making drivers.

I suggest you hit up the following sites for full reviews:

www.anandtech.com

www.techreport.com

www.bit-tech.net

www.xbitlabs.com

As a fellow ATI user, I agree with Lehman, ATI drivers suck it big time. I hear way more complaints about ATI drivers over Nvidia, and it seems the people complaining are usually using ATI, and not just some Nvidia Fanboy.

I find it funny how some people just disregard other negative experiences when they seem to disagree with their feeling about the company. This goes for both sides, Green and Red.

I am sure Nvidia has their negative, I would not know though as I have not used Nvidia in years, but the drivers are definitely a negative for ATI IMHO.

Not even statistics support the arguement that ATI's drivers are dodgy.

Once you factor out third parties that are responsible for driver crashes (i.e. ignore vendors other than ATI and Nvidia), Nvidia's drivers were responsible for 75.6% of Vista driver related crashes. The other 24.6% being ATI's.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/27/nvidia-drivers-responsible-for-nearly-30-of-vista-crashes-in-20/

Further more, I've been dealing with both Nvidia and ATI drivers on a range of PC's, and I have yet to find any issue with the ATI drivers. That's not even mentioning the fact that I use ATI cards for my high end gaming/workstation rig, which is presented to more potential instabilities compared to my entertainment/casual rigs.

If you're having driver problems with ATI, then chances are that you are either incompetent or have a issue elsewhere with your PC. I'm not saying that ATI drivers are perfect, but they're far from being "negative".

Look when that nice little pie chart was created, March 2008, hmmm, and it is talking about 2007, now how many systems had Nvidia over ATI at that time? When you consider what the options were at that time, the 8800 GTX-GTS vs. 2900XT mainly comes to mind, I bet that a LOT more people were using Nvidia with Vista.

I mean the 2900 series from ATI was about your only option during 2007, at least until the end of 2007. I mean if 100 people had Nvidia, and 20 had ATI, 50 crashes for Nvidia would be equal percentage wise to 10 for ATI. I like how they leave that bit of information out, I mean if Nvidia users out numbered ATI by 4 to 1 then Nvidia would actually have a better ratio, right?

I bought a 2900 Pro and it was not even "supported" by ATI for months after I purchased it. I had to use the drivers included with the card for what seemed like forever. Any attempt to install the drivers from ATI's website would crash my PC. But I guess that was my incompetents, not ATI's there huh? :roll:

ATI drivers are usable, but compared to my friends with their 8000 series, I have had tons of issues, and I am not too shabby at working with PC's, hell I fix there PC's when they have problems. I would easily call ATI drivers a negative compared to Nvidia's, am I wrong, maybe, but I don't think so, and my experiences agree with me.

I just don't see why you have to disregard Lehmans or my experiences, just because you have not had any does not mean it is smooth sailing for everyone.

OH I just saw artiedeadat40 post, that makes a lot of sense too. i mean as much as I dislike ATI drivers, they are gold compared to Nvidia chipsets. Good call artie.

Nvidia's chipsets usually tend to be faulty at the silicon and BIOS level, not so much at the driver level.

Their chipset drivers corruped my raid stripe twice before I found out that they pulled the drivers from their website. I thought I had a bad disk for a month. Im currently using that disk on my new p45 board. To be fair I havent had the best luck with my gtx260 drivers either. Nvidia is just starting to releace stable drivers for it. I havent gotten to do much testing with their newest offical driver but it seems decent. The drivers on my old 9800gtx on the other hand were great. I had no problems with those.artiedeadat40

Gosh Artie. Your luck is just as bad as mine, if not worst. I guess you have the short end of the stick over there on the Nvidia side, and I have on the ATi side.

This here folks, shows that neither Green or Red is perfect. Choose blue! No wait.. sorry, there isn't blue.

[QUOTE="artiedeadat40"]Their chipset drivers corruped my raid stripe twice before I found out that they pulled the drivers from their website. I thought I had a bad disk for a month. Im currently using that disk on my new p45 board. To be fair I havent had the best luck with my gtx260 drivers either. Nvidia is just starting to releace stable drivers for it. I havent gotten to do much testing with their newest offical driver but it seems decent. The drivers on my old 9800gtx on the other hand were great. I had no problems with those.Elann2008

Gosh Artie. Your luck is just as bad as mine, if not worst. I guess you have the short end of the stick over there on the Nvidia side, and I have on the ATi side.

This here folks, shows that neither Green or Red is perfect. Choose blue! No wait.. sorry, there isn't blue.

Will be in the future. ;)

get teh GTX260 Core 216 from BFG, the OCX one
its only 1% behind the GTX280 in most games

also i hav a 4870 and had to make this decision a month ago, i really wish i got the GTX260, even the normal one
the ATI drivers actually really suck

im still gonna stick with it but when i get my new rig in Q3 2009 im gonna be going Nvidia unless ATI works wonders with its driversLehman

I never really liked ATI just because of the drivers, other people seem to get great performance but I never cared for ATI.

the gtx 260 is way more powerful. but it really depends on your purchasing power. $280 or $400?

this site will help you determine the best score for an FPS game and it'll show the gtx 260 and ati 4870 versus each other. it really all depends on your resolution. http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-q3-2008/benchmarks,30.html

the 4870 beats out the GTX260....seriously where is all this bs coming from?xid32

Its coming from the fact that the 260 core 216 from BfG and EVGA beats the 4870 and is only slightly behind the gtx 280. So thats where that info is coming from the 4870 is a good card but the 260 core 216 has the upper hand on it. Mean while the gtx 280 and the X2 are both bad ass cards. The only reason I would take the 280 is X2 and even the 9800 gx2 have that annoying micro stuttering issue. But the 260 core 216 does beat the 4870.

Look when that nice little pie chart was created, March 2008, hmmm, and it is talking about 2007, now how many systems had Nvidia over ATI at that time? When you consider what the options were at that time, the 8800 GTX-GTS vs. 2900XT mainly comes to mind, I bet that a LOT more people were using Nvidia with Vista.

I mean the 2900 series from ATI was about your only option during 2007, at least until the end of 2007. I mean if 100 people had Nvidia, and 20 had ATI, 50 crashes for Nvidia would be equal percentage wise to 10 for ATI. I like how they leave that bit of information out, I mean if Nvidia users out numbered ATI by 4 to 1 then Nvidia would actually have a better ratio, right?

Actually, sales during the period show Nvidia outselling ATI 3:2--that doesn't help Nvidia's plight here at all.

Secondly, cards such as HD2600 XT's and 8600 GT's outsell their high end counter parts considerably. What's more, these mid range cards (and lower end parts like HD2400's and 8400's) are much more likely to be bundled with Windows Vista by system builders and OEM's.

I bought a 2900 Pro and it was not even "supported" by ATI for months after I purchased it. I had to use the drivers included with the card for what seemed like forever. Any attempt to install the drivers from ATI's website would crash my PC. But I guess that was my incompetents, not ATI's there huh?

Yea, it probably was, seeing as many people not only managed to game on their 2900 Pro's but BIOS flash and upgrade them to 2900 XT's without hassle. :|

If you struggled locating the "Download" link for the Catalyst 7.x drivers at the time, you've got bigger things to worry about than PC gaming...

ATI drivers are usable, but compared to my friends with their 8000 series, I have had tons of issues, and I am not too shabby at working with PC's, hell I fix there PC's when they have problems. I would easily call ATI drivers a negative compared to Nvidia's, am I wrong, maybe, but I don't think so, and my experiences agree with me.

Did you friend have a fun time using unstable beta drivers for Vista? Real DX10 support, right?

I just don't see why you have to disregard Lehmans or my experiences, just because you have not had any does not mean it is smooth sailing for everyone.

I tend to disregard disgruntled users who seem to jump to conclusions without looking out for personal responsibility.

The facts and figures do not support your view. It's as simple as that.

OH I just saw artiedeadat40 post, that makes a lot of sense too. i mean as much as I dislike ATI drivers, they are gold compared to Nvidia chipsets. Good call artie.

Nvidia's chipsets usually tend to be faulty at the silicon and BIOS level, not so much at the driver level.

Wesker776

Do you have a link showing the sells ratio, and of what ratio of the people buying those card ACTUALLY were using Vista. I mean, most people were still with XP, I think most people would not get Vista with either a 26xx or 86xx, at least that what everybody here was suggesting people do last year.

Oh trust me the 2900Pro was not supported by ATI for months. I even called AMD/ATI and they said that "officially" they did not release a 2900PRO, they said that that was the board makers decision and they would not do anything to help, I had to deal with Sapphire all the way, and their support team was at some conference for the first 2 weeks I owned the card, and I could not talk to anyone there to help. I bet if I did flash the BIOS to the 2900XT I could have used it's drivers, but I did not want to void my warranty, but I guess that my incompetence to, I should have known that I would have to flash my 2900Pro to a 2900XT to use the current drivers.

Now if I go to ATI and download drivers for the 2900 series it will work, but IT DID NOT earlier, I don't care what you say, I went through it, not you. Maybe you should LISTEN to what people say instead of trying to insult them nonchalantly.

Yes, my friend did use Nvidia beta drivers, and they worked just fine by the way, funny how one disgruntled user complaining about Nvidia's beta drivers trys to make Nvidia beta drivers to be some horrible thing. ;)

I am not a disgruntled user, I am a user that is not 100% satisfied though. I know companies will make mistakes and that things will go wrong, but that is when they need to step up to the plate and handle the situation right. I mean my issue with the 2900Pro (oh wait that was my incompetence though :roll: ) and then this latest thing with the fan issue and the heat. Yes maybe they could run that hot and yes you could fix it yourself. But who wants to add all that heat to their case, and if it is SO easy to fix why the hell did ATI not fix it themselves?

So you think that none of the crashes in Vista were due to the crappy Nvidia chipset, ok. That maybe right, but I seriously doubt it. So Nvidia made perfect motherboard drivers but just completely screwed up the GPU drivers, right.

I try to be a objective as I can be. I advise my friedns to go with ATI or Nvidia, depending on who has the best performance at their price range. I would not talk someone out of buying an ATI because of the drivers, but I feel they have every right to know that they can be glitchy. Just like when one of my buds want SLI, I tell them many people use it just fine, but here are some of the horror stories from SLI motherboards......... I mean you are not the only person alive, and just because you have not had these problems, does not mean they do not exist.

While I still like ATI, and hope to go with them on my next build (Nvidia just feel like some huge Goliath to me) their driver do leave a lot to be desired, IMHO. I remember how quite a few people here was talking about once the ATI released newer drivers that the 2900's would smash the 8800GTX, well I listened to that rubbish and see what happened. Why is it that ATI releasing cards with crappy drivers, that are supposed to get better is a good thing, especially when it does not happen.

[QUOTE="Lehman"]get teh GTX260 Core 216 from BFG, the OCX one
its only 1% behind the GTX280 in most games

also i hav a 4870 and had to make this decision a month ago, i really wish i got the GTX260, even the normal one
the ATI drivers actually really suck

im still gonna stick with it but when i get my new rig in Q3 2009 im gonna be going Nvidia unless ATI works wonders with its driversWesker776

Funny how it just takes one disgruntled user (who probably has an issue with his entire PC) to say that the entire ATI Catalyst Crew sucks at making drivers.

I suggest you hit up the following sites for full reviews:

www.anandtech.com

www.techreport.com

www.bit-tech.net

www.xbitlabs.com

but to the TC i would have to say stick with the ATI cards, if you have a crossfire mobo... less chance of errors, just as if you had a SLI mobo, stick with Nvidia..

[QUOTE="Wesker776"]

[QUOTE="Lehman"]get teh GTX260 Core 216 from BFG, the OCX one
its only 1% behind the GTX280 in most games

also i hav a 4870 and had to make this decision a month ago, i really wish i got the GTX260, even the normal one
the ATI drivers actually really suck

im still gonna stick with it but when i get my new rig in Q3 2009 im gonna be going Nvidia unless ATI works wonders with its driversLach0121

Funny how it just takes one disgruntled user (who probably has an issue with his entire PC) to say that the entire ATI Catalyst Crew sucks at making drivers.

I suggest you hit up the following sites for full reviews:

www.anandtech.com

www.techreport.com

www.bit-tech.net

www.xbitlabs.com

but to the TC i would have to say stick with the ATI cards, if you have a crossfire mobo... less chance of errors, just as if you had a SLI mobo, stick with Nvidia..

I have to agree with you there. But don't worry you'll be called a fanboy its what everybody seesm to do. I personally also like Nvidia better I never had driver issues and their customer support is good. ATI's drivers pissed me off so much I said screw them and i'm glad I made the switch to nvidia. But get whats works best if you have trouble with nvidia go ati if you have trouble with ati go nvidia.

[QUOTE="Lach0121"][QUOTE="Wesker776"]

[QUOTE="Lehman"]get teh GTX260 Core 216 from BFG, the OCX one
its only 1% behind the GTX280 in most games

also i hav a 4870 and had to make this decision a month ago, i really wish i got the GTX260, even the normal one
the ATI drivers actually really suck

im still gonna stick with it but when i get my new rig in Q3 2009 im gonna be going Nvidia unless ATI works wonders with its driversblade55555

Funny how it just takes one disgruntled user (who probably has an issue with his entire PC) to say that the entire ATI Catalyst Crew sucks at making drivers.

I suggest you hit up the following sites for full reviews:

www.anandtech.com

www.techreport.com

www.bit-tech.net

www.xbitlabs.com

but to the TC i would have to say stick with the ATI cards, if you have a crossfire mobo... less chance of errors, just as if you had a SLI mobo, stick with Nvidia..

I have to agree with you there. But don't worry you'll be called a fanboy its what everybody seesm to do. I personally also like Nvidia better I never had driver issues and their customer support is good. ATI's drivers pissed me off so much I said screw them and i'm glad I made the switch to nvidia. But get whats works best if you have trouble with nvidia go ati if you have trouble with ati go nvidia.

Look when that nice little pie chart was created, March 2008, hmmm, and it is talking about 2007, now how many systems had Nvidia over ATI at that time? When you consider what the options were at that time, the 8800 GTX-GTS vs. 2900XT mainly comes to mind, I bet that a LOT more people were using Nvidia with Vista.

I mean the 2900 series from ATI was about your only option during 2007, at least until the end of 2007. I mean if 100 people had Nvidia, and 20 had ATI, 50 crashes for Nvidia would be equal percentage wise to 10 for ATI. I like how they leave that bit of information out, I mean if Nvidia users out numbered ATI by 4 to 1 then Nvidia would actually have a better ratio, right?

Actually, sales during the period show Nvidia outselling ATI 3:2--that doesn't help Nvidia's plight here at all.

Secondly, cards such as HD2600 XT's and 8600 GT's outsell their high end counter parts considerably. What's more, these mid range cards (and lower end parts like HD2400's and 8400's) are much more likely to be bundled with Windows Vista by system builders and OEM's.

I bought a 2900 Pro and it was not even "supported" by ATI for months after I purchased it. I had to use the drivers included with the card for what seemed like forever. Any attempt to install the drivers from ATI's website would crash my PC. But I guess that was my incompetents, not ATI's there huh?

Yea, it probably was, seeing as many people not only managed to game on their 2900 Pro's but BIOS flash and upgrade them to 2900 XT's without hassle. :|

If you struggled locating the "Download" link for the Catalyst 7.x drivers at the time, you've got bigger things to worry about than PC gaming...

ATI drivers are usable, but compared to my friends with their 8000 series, I have had tons of issues, and I am not too shabby at working with PC's, hell I fix there PC's when they have problems. I would easily call ATI drivers a negative compared to Nvidia's, am I wrong, maybe, but I don't think so, and my experiences agree with me.

Did you friend have a fun time using unstable beta drivers for Vista? Real DX10 support, right?

I just don't see why you have to disregard Lehmans or my experiences, just because you have not had any does not mean it is smooth sailing for everyone.

I tend to disregard disgruntled users who seem to jump to conclusions without looking out for personal responsibility.

The facts and figures do not support your view. It's as simple as that.

OH I just saw artiedeadat40 post, that makes a lot of sense too. i mean as much as I dislike ATI drivers, they are gold compared to Nvidia chipsets. Good call artie.

Nvidia's chipsets usually tend to be faulty at the silicon and BIOS level, not so much at the driver level.

Wesker776

Google nforce 15.17. My 780i just died on me too.

Well this thread has some good post's and it's not a war like GS was a half year ago. ("Think"ing about a few people)

About the faulty drivers I can say that both ATi or Nvidia has some going on there, does not matter if red or green they are both constantly releasing new drivers, some offers a fix for one thing and meanwhile it does make a mess, or evrything are working just fine. (usally "just fine")

I must say that whatever the drivers was for 2 years ago they are working better nowdays, before/few years ago there was no performance to talk about in the drivers they just added a tweak for a meny error in some game or anything like that, but this is not were we are at now, look at HD3xxx now they did some fine tuning for the catalyst 8.5-x.x and the cards run better. I must say i am a little spoiled about the drivers that are released evry 1.5 month. (ATi for this time being)

Soooo.... what am I trying to say?

-Who cares about drivers theese days, ATI AND NVIDIA does for the most time have good drivers, and the support for diffrent OS are great and games run fine since day one. ATI drivers are fine theese days but they had some horror moments but they are for this time being horror stories that you tell small chillren to make them take Nvidia.

I am not intrested in fanboyism, I don't care about Nvidia or ATI, HD4870 or GTX260 216 it's about the money, go with what fit your pocket best, they best price wins.

It's all about the money, or else we would be talking about HD4870x2 or GTX280 in this thread.

[QUOTE="Wesker776"]

Look when that nice little pie chart was created, March 2008, hmmm, and it is talking about 2007, now how many systems had Nvidia over ATI at that time? When you consider what the options were at that time, the 8800 GTX-GTS vs. 2900XT mainly comes to mind, I bet that a LOT more people were using Nvidia with Vista.

I mean the 2900 series from ATI was about your only option during 2007, at least until the end of 2007. I mean if 100 people had Nvidia, and 20 had ATI, 50 crashes for Nvidia would be equal percentage wise to 10 for ATI. I like how they leave that bit of information out, I mean if Nvidia users out numbered ATI by 4 to 1 then Nvidia would actually have a better ratio, right?

Actually, sales during the period show Nvidia outselling ATI 3:2--that doesn't help Nvidia's plight here at all.

Secondly, cards such as HD2600 XT's and 8600 GT's outsell their high end counter parts considerably. What's more, these mid range cards (and lower end parts like HD2400's and 8400's) are much more likely to be bundled with Windows Vista by system builders and OEM's.

I bought a 2900 Pro and it was not even "supported" by ATI for months after I purchased it. I had to use the drivers included with the card for what seemed like forever. Any attempt to install the drivers from ATI's website would crash my PC. But I guess that was my incompetents, not ATI's there huh?

Yea, it probably was, seeing as many people not only managed to game on their 2900 Pro's but BIOS flash and upgrade them to 2900 XT's without hassle. :|

If you struggled locating the "Download" link for the Catalyst 7.x drivers at the time, you've got bigger things to worry about than PC gaming...

ATI drivers are usable, but compared to my friends with their 8000 series, I have had tons of issues, and I am not too shabby at working with PC's, hell I fix there PC's when they have problems. I would easily call ATI drivers a negative compared to Nvidia's, am I wrong, maybe, but I don't think so, and my experiences agree with me.

Did you friend have a fun time using unstable beta drivers for Vista? Real DX10 support, right?

I just don't see why you have to disregard Lehmans or my experiences, just because you have not had any does not mean it is smooth sailing for everyone.

I tend to disregard disgruntled users who seem to jump to conclusions without looking out for personal responsibility.

The facts and figures do not support your view. It's as simple as that.

OH I just saw artiedeadat40 post, that makes a lot of sense too. i mean as much as I dislike ATI drivers, they are gold compared to Nvidia chipsets. Good call artie.

Nvidia's chipsets usually tend to be faulty at the silicon and BIOS level, not so much at the driver level.

artiedeadat40

Google nforce 15.17. My 780i just died on me too.

*facepalm*

Damn... Artie. I gotta say it again, you have the worst luck. I feel 100 times better now, not at your expense of course. Wow, Nvidia DOES NOT like you.