I've always wondered this. What's the point of game companies investing thousands (perhaps millions) of dollars in developing a foolproof DRM, when they very well know that there is a 99% chance the game will be cracked anyway? The only two games which are impossible to crack, as far as I know, are HAWX 2 and Diablo 3.
What's the point of DRM?
This topic is locked from further discussion.
To troll honest gamers like uzhangweizheng3
Truth.
[QUOTE="zhangweizheng3"]To troll honest gamers like uthe_bi99man
Truth.
In all reality, this is the truth. Companies use it because they sell shoddy software that's not worth buying and they need to make sure no one gets to see it before they pay money, otherwise the company would go out of business.[QUOTE="the_bi99man"][QUOTE="zhangweizheng3"]To troll honest gamers like uSKaREO
Truth.
In all reality, this is the truth. Companies use it because they sell shoddy software that's not worth buying and they need to make sure no one gets to see it before they pay money, otherwise the company would go out of business.Which hilariously blind of them considering that is a statistically proven fact that the advent of DRM practices by publishers has had literally ZERO effect on piracy rates. And software crackers are a competitive, sporting people. They see a DRM program as a personal challenge, and it makes them eager to crack it as soon as possible. Combined with the fact that intrusive DRM that forces you to be online to play a single player game, and loads your system with sh!t you don't want also drives at least a few would-be customers to pirate instead, because they actually get a better product that way, and it stands to reason that DRM might actually INCREASE the chances of a game being cracked and pirated.
In all reality, this is the truth. Companies use it because they sell shoddy software that's not worth buying and they need to make sure no one gets to see it before they pay money, otherwise the company would go out of business.[QUOTE="SKaREO"][QUOTE="the_bi99man"]
Truth.
the_bi99man
Which hilariously blind of them considering that is a statistically proven fact that the advent of DRM practices by publishers has had literally ZERO effect on piracy rates. And software crackers are a competitive, sporting people. They see a DRM program as a personal challenge, and it makes them eager to crack it as soon as possible. Combined with the fact that intrusive DRM that forces you to be online to play a single player game, and loads your system with sh!t you don't want also drives at least a few would-be customers to pirate instead, because they actually get a better product that way, and it stands to reason that DRM might actually INCREASE the chances of a game being cracked and pirated.
Bingo! You just hit the nail square on the head with that post.
You guys are so jaded.
I'm fairly certain they don't want to punish customers, though I do think they don't care as much about their customers as about stopping the piracy.
In one way I can't blame them. I mean wouldn't you try to do something? Let's say you were a business owner. You owned a PC shop. How would you feel if every night a bunch of a-holes broke into your place and stole your inventory?
Pretty sure everyone here on this thread would be pissed off, and woudl try to do everything they could to stop the thieves.
You can argue all you want about physical goods versus digital, but it doesn't change the fact that there are people who invest millions of dollars, developers that slave away for years, etc to produce a game, and people who download it for free are not supporting that endevour.
At the same time, yeah they should realize that they need to change something else. DRM doesn't really work.
And some companies are figuring that out. Unfortunatley what's been happening is that theya re all going online. You can't pirate soemthing that exists primairly on the cloud. That means single player games, the kind of games I love, are become more and more rare.
So thank you jack-@ss pirates for ruinining single player gaming.
What you just said makes no sense. Pirating software is nothing like stealing at all. For a theft to occur, the victim has to have his property taken away from him and cannot be replaced easily. In the case of piracy, no actual theft occurs, because it didn't cost anyone anything and the original copy is still intact. Piracy is simply copyright infringement, which a lot of YouTube videos are also guilty of. "Oh noes, those ebil ebil users are stealing my IP. What ever should I do?? I know, let's add DRM! Oops, DRM actually punishes paying customers and the pirates are still copyright infringing! Rawr! Let's just go with always online and alienate all of our customers in the process. Derpa derpa derp derp!" I swear to God these businesses are run by utter morons.Let's say you were a business owner. You owned a PC shop. How would you feel if every night a bunch of jackess broke into your place and stole your inventory?
Kinthalis
Most of the game sales occur in the first week, so DRM's purpose is to delay piracy for that week. A lot of gamers will impulse buy during that week if there is no free version available. I don't think any publishers expect their DRM to last forever. They just want that critical first week to be free of piracy. In the past games have been cracked in the first day, but DRM has gotten harder to crack. It usually takes a few days longer now.
That's not true that most sales happen in the first week. That was a rumor or bad quote or something. A lot do, and it may be the busiest week for the game, but not most sales. The rest of your theory is good though.Most of the game sales occur in the first week, so DRM's purpose is to delay piracy for that week. A lot of gamers will impulse buy during that week if there is no free version available. I don't think any publishers expect their DRM to last forever. They just want that critical first week to be free of piracy. In the past games have been cracked in the first day, but DRM has gotten harder to crack. It usually takes a few days longer now.
James00715
You guys are so jaded.
I'm fairly certain they don't want to punish customers, though I do think they don't care as much about their customers as about stopping the piracy.
In one way I can't blame them. I mean wouldn't you try to do something? Let's say you were a business owner. You owned a PC shop. How would you feel if every night a bunch of a-holes broke into your place and stole your inventory?
Pretty sure everyone here on this thread would be pissed off, and woudl try to do everything they could to stop the thieves.
You can argue all you want about physical goods versus digital, but it doesn't change the fact that there are people who invest millions of dollars, developers that slave away for years, etc to produce a game, and people who download it for free are not supporting that endevour.
At the same time, yeah they should realize that they need to change something else. DRM doesn't really work.
And some companies are figuring that out. Unfortunatley what's been happening is that theya re all going online. You can't pirate soemthing that exists primairly on the cloud. That means single player games, the kind of games I love, are become more and more rare.
So thank you jack-@ss pirates for ruinining single player gaming.
Kinthalis
You know, even a dimwit would understand that if you try to do the same thing over and over with the same (unsatisfactory) results, then you should change what you're doing. "Wouldn't you try do so something" doesn't hold, you just hurt yourself more.
Piracy is nothing like stealing. No amount of rationalization or bullsh!t can change that. Your whole post could be discarded as trash based on that assertion alone.
And LOL. Piracy has nothing to do with SP either. I'd like to know what reasoning got you there :lol:
[QUOTE="James00715"]That's not true that most sales happen in the first week. That was a rumor or bad quote or something. A lot do, and it may be the busiest week for the game, but not most sales. The rest of your theory is good though. That's how every big name developer sells games. They do sell after for quite a while sometimes, PC games, that's the reason small games "might" do fine even if they don't have stellar sales at launch, but almost any big name game sells more than 90% of all copies a game can possibly sell in the first week, 2nd at most bringing it close to 100% after only one month.Most of the game sales occur in the first week, so DRM's purpose is to delay piracy for that week. A lot of gamers will impulse buy during that week if there is no free version available. I don't think any publishers expect their DRM to last forever. They just want that critical first week to be free of piracy. In the past games have been cracked in the first day, but DRM has gotten harder to crack. It usually takes a few days longer now.
guynamedbilly
There is no rumor or bad quote, it's a statistical fact that was obvious or available for research for absolutely any person that cares to know about this subject without having the need to assume random things, like it being fantasy.
That's not true that most sales happen in the first week. That was a rumor or bad quote or something. A lot do, and it may be the busiest week for the game, but not most sales. The rest of your theory is good though. That's how every big name developer sells games. They do sell after for quite a while sometimes, PC games, that's the reason small games "might" do fine even if they don't have stellar sales at launch, but almost any big name game sells more than 90% of all copies a game can possibly sell in the first week, 2nd at most bringing it close to 100% after only one month.[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"][QUOTE="James00715"]
Most of the game sales occur in the first week, so DRM's purpose is to delay piracy for that week. A lot of gamers will impulse buy during that week if there is no free version available. I don't think any publishers expect their DRM to last forever. They just want that critical first week to be free of piracy. In the past games have been cracked in the first day, but DRM has gotten harder to crack. It usually takes a few days longer now.
DanielDust
There is no rumor or bad quote, it's a statistical fact that was obvious or available for research for absolutely any person that cares to know about this subject without having the need to assume random things, like it being fantasy.
And yet you also fail to provide it. It isn't true.See http://www.joystiq.com/2008/05/07/ny-times-gta-iv-snatches-500-million-in-first-week/
Then see. http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=grand+theft+auto+IV&publisher=&platform=&genre=&minSales=0&results=200
Add up the first three results on that second link.
First week sales = 6 million
Lifetime sales = 20 million
According to Kotaku, GTA 4 has sold even more over it's lifetime at 22 million as of last September.http://kotaku.com/5840484/gta-iv-overtakes-san-andreas-in-lifetime-sales
Piracy is nothing like stealing. No amount of rationalization or bullsh!t can change that.
N30F3N1X
Yes, illegally downloading and playing a creative licenseyou paid nothing for isn't anything like stealing...you're just full of genius aren't you?
And LOL.Piracy has nothing to do with SP either. I'd like to know what reasoning got you there :lol:
N30F3N1X
It's not to hard to follow.
He stated most DMR's don't work, the only ones that do are the "always online" ones such as Diablo 3, so in the future we're probably going to see more games adding always online DMRs and requireing and internet connection, thus lessening the amount of true SP games. Please tell me if I used any word that were too big;)
To answer your question OP DMR is put in place to stop piracy.
Piracy, whether PC gamers like to admit it or not, is a pretty big problem.
Unfortunately most DMR's don't do much to hinder piracy and the game is normally cracked within weeks anyway. I'd expect to see a lot more "always online" DMRs in the future as those are the only ones that seems to work...basically all games will be like Diablo 3 in their set-up.
And some companies are figuring that out. Unfortunatley what's been happening is that theya re all going online. You can't pirate soemthing that exists primairly on the cloud. That means single player games, the kind of games I love, are become more and more rare.Please elaborate on how you reached the stunning conclusion that piracy caused less single player games? More games are online multiplayer now because that wasn't a viable option before. Last gen consoles couldn't connect to the internet and Internet connections were not as fast or as cheap back then as they are now. This is like blaming some random party because you can't play monochrome games on your HD phone or tablet anymore.So thank you jack-@ss pirates for ruinining single player gaming.
Kinthalis
Yes, illegally downloading and playing a creative licenseyou paid nothing for isn't anything like stealing...you're just full of genius aren't you?Croag821
I know, I know, Not everyone is gifted with intelligence. No need to act so jealous.
It's not to hard to follow.
He stated most DMR's don't work, the only ones that do are the "always online" ones such as Diablo 3, so in the future we're probably going to see more games adding always online DMRs and requireing and internet connection, thus lessening the amount of true SP games. Please tell me if I used any word that were too big;) Croag821
So how come the generations when console piracy was even more rampant than PC piracy were also the ones that had the most single players games? Herp derp.
It's not hard to follow if you think you can just sweep evidence under the rug. Too bad actual, working logic does not permit you to do that ;)
To answer your question OP DMR is put in place to stop piracy.
Piracy, whether PC gamers like to admit it or not, is a pretty big problem.
Unfortunately most DMR's don't do much to hinder piracy and the game is normally cracked within weeks anyway. I'd expect to see a lot more "always online" DMRs in the future as those are the only ones that seems to work...basically all games will be like Diablo 3 in their set-up.
Croag821
Piracy, whether corporate apologists like to admit it or not, is a pretty small problem.
See? I can do that too. And now we are at an impassè.
So how come the generations when console piracy was even more rampant than PC piracy were also the ones that had the most single players games? Herp derp.
It's not hard to follow if you think you can just sweep evidence under the rug. Too bad actual, working logic does not permit you to do that ;)N30F3N1X
What generations are you talking about? Because if it's anything before the current generation of consoles MP was a very new technology so of course SP games would be more prevelant.
The gaming world has changes so much year to year you really can't look at patterns7 years back and expect them to hold true today.
Plus I we've already seen this trend starting to take place with many games including Diablo 3 and just recntly EA announced their plans to not do anymore SP only games.
Piracy, whether corporate apologists like to admit it or not, is a pretty small problem.
See? I can do that too. And now we are at an impassè.
N30F3N1X
Just now I went to a popular pirating website, clicked on "Games", then clicked on "most popular." The entire first 10 pages was 99.9% pc games. The first page (all PC games) alone consisted of ~99,500 seeders and leachers.
Now I'm sure not everyone pirating the games would actually buy them, but still hundreds of thousdands of games are being stolen daily. That sounds like a pretty big problem to me and that is based on actual facts. If you want the website to check for yourself just PM me.
I'm not even sure why your arguing against this...piracy just hurst the gamers that buy their games and it needs to be fixed.
What generations are you talking about? Because if it's anything before the current generation of consoles MP was a very new technology so of course SP games would be more prevelant.
The gaming world has changes so much year to year you really can't look at patterns7 years back and expect them to hold true today.
Plus I we've already seen this trend starting to take place with many games including Diablo 3 and just recntly EA announced their plans to not do anymore SP only games.
Croag821
Before you agreed games are getting online components in them because of piracy, and now you're saying that games are getting online because of technological improvements.
Backpedaling much?
Just now I went to a popular pirating website, clicked on "Games", then clicked on "most popular." The entire first 10 pages was 99.9% pc games. The first page (all PC games) alone consisted of ~99,500 seeders and leachers.
Now I'm sure not everyone pirating the games would actually buy them, but still hundreds of thousdands of games are being stolen daily. That sounds like a pretty big problem to me and that is based on actual facts. If you want the website to check for yourself just PM me.
I'm not even sure why your arguing against this...piracy just hurst the gamers that buy their games and it needs to be fixed.
Croag821
I think we're done here ;)
Before you agreed games are getting online components in them because of piracy, and now you're saying that games are getting online because of technological improvements.
Backpedaling much?
N30F3N1X
No it's both. There are more online games now compared to 7 years ago (the last generation of consoles) due to technological increases and there are/will be less SP only games due to piracy prevention systems.
[QUOTE="Croag821"]
Just now I went to a popular pirating website, clicked on "Games", then clicked on "most popular." The entire first 10 pages was 99.9% pc games. The first page (all PC games) alone consisted of ~99,500 seeders and leachers.
NowI'm sure not everyone pirating the games would actually buy them, but still hundreds of thousdands of games are being stolen daily. That sounds like a pretty big problem to me and that isbased on actual facts. If you want the website to check for yourself just PM me.
I'm not even sure why your arguing against this...piracy just hurst the gamers that buy their games and it needs to be fixed.
N30F3N1X
I think we're done here ;)
What are you even trying to prove?
The big problem I presented (hundreds of thousands of games being illegally downloaded everyday) is based on the facts I presented, and as I said if you want to see my source PM me I'm not going to put it on this website.
The first part you took out of context was simply me admitting I don't know a variable which as no effect on how many copies are being illegally downloaded. The funny thing is my lack of knowledge of that variable is a fact so even your pathetic attempt to take things out of context was wrong.
Anyhow your attempts to dodge the argument at hand and your incoherent and off topic nitpicks of my points and lack of any actual counter arguments lead me to believe you lack the mental aptitude to have any form of real argument. Im sorry to have wasted our time.
[QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]
Before you agreed games are getting online components in them because of piracy, and now you're saying that games are getting online because of technological improvements.
Backpedaling much?
Croag821
No it's both. There are more online games now compared to 7 years ago (the last generation of consoles) due to technological increases and there will be less SP games in the future due to piracy prevention systems.
lol stop using my argument to try to prove your flawed logic. speaking of which, have you already been to the future? how do you know so much about future "piracy prevention systems"? if anything time is proving that less and less companies are using DRM (See Ubisoft's recent decision), even indie developers aren't using DRM (btw there are plenty of single player indie games out there but for some reason you're ignoring them)DRM is useless. Cracks are made before the game is even released and pirates can get many games earlier than or on release day.
No it's both. There are more online games now compared to 7 years ago (the last generation of consoles) due to technological increases and there are/will be less SP only games due to piracy prevention systems.Croag821
Due to piracy prevention systems? Really? Do you even look at the stuff you write? Earlier you linked to an article that quotes an EA spokesman regarding their future plans to ship no games as SP only. Shouldn't this kinda, you know, give you the idea that the market is shifting? Especially since piracy isn't even mentioned there and the guy is speaking mainly about console and multiplatform games?
What are you even trying to prove?
The big problem I presented (hundreds of thousands of games being illegally downloaded everyday) is based on the facts I presented, and as I said if you want to see my source PM me I'm not going to put it on this website.
The first part you took out of context was simply me admitting I don't know a variable which as no effect on how many copies are being illegally downloaded. The funny thing is my lack of knowledge of that variable is a fact so even your pathetic attempt to take things out of context was wrong.
Anyhow your attempts to dodge the argument at hand and your incoherent and off topic nitpicks of my points and lack of any actual counter arguments lead me to believe you lack the mental aptitude to have any form of real argument. Im sorry to have wasted our time.
Croag821
The "big problem" you presented is, once again, just you trying to sweep uncomfortable points under the rug.
Sure, of the 100k who are downloading the game, some *may* have bought it if they couldn't have downloaded it. On the other hand, what about the people who will end up buying the game because they tried it and that wouldn't have even considered it if they couldn't have downloaded it?
I didn't take anything out of context nor dodge your argument. I pointed out two conflicting assertions. Read what "taking out of context" means before you say bullsh!t.
I'm the one who's wasting time trying to educate you, dimwit.
To make it annoying enough for the user to crack that they decide it's easier to just put money down for the game.
I can't believe some of you are actually having trouble realizing that piracy leads to more games with required online components.
You gotta be dumb as dirt not to see the connection. Developers and publishers are going free to play, MMO, mostly or only online experiences. The reason is two-fold, these types of experiences are popular, and they do not suffer as much in terms of piracy.
Let's pretend you're an investor. You're putting up MILLIONS of your hard earned cash. You can support a developer makign the next online multi-player experience. He'll say that piracy won't eb an issue, development time will be a couple of years, and look at Guildwars2, Diablo3, and the successful free to play models out there.
On the other hand you cna support a studio that wants to put out a deep, single player game. Development time is 5 years, it'll cost a lot more than the online game, and will be pirated up the @ss by all the freeloaders of the world.
Which one are you going to invest in?
I think we need to clear a few things up here. There is a difference between "Single Player", "DRM" and "Online components". I think what you're really trying to state is there are no offline games NOT single player games. Single player means just that, you play the game on your own and there's no option to play with other players whether local or online. DRM is any extra software put in to prevent copied games or programs from activating. DRM doesn't have to be online it could be as simple as entering a serial number that comes with your game/software, though yes I have to admit that most of it requires a connection now to check immediately if you have a valid copy or not. Always-on-DRM is very rare in games and most of the time hackers find a way to circumvent it anyway. As for Online components, they could be a wide range of things from simply the ability to update a game with bug-fixes, leaders boards or interacting with other players online. Single player games with the ability to update online is still a single player game, only one player plays it. Most games now come with both single player and multi-player campaigns. Piracy and DRM has ZERO impact on the number of single player games, it doesn't even make sense to link them together.I can't believe some of you are actually having trouble realizing that piracy leads to more games with required online components.
You gotta be dumb as dirt not to see the connection. Developers and publishers are going free to play, MMO, mostly or only online experiences. The reason is two-fold, these types of experiences are popular, and they do not suffer as much in terms of piracy.Kinthalis
Which developers and which publishers? Can you provide examples? Again, "these types of experiences" have become popular because internet connections are much better now than they are then, so it's only natural to see an increased interest in these games. Another example of this are social media games like farmville, sure us hardcore gamers dismiss these games as real games but no one can deny that they increased in popularity. F2P and MMO games are a very different category than console games and often have a different fanbase, not saying the fans are exclusive to either online gaming or console gaming, just saying they often have a different audience. Also, even MMOs aren't safe from piracy. I've seen a lot of people pirate MMOs like WOW and play the game on a free private server.Developers and publishers are going free to play, MMO, mostly or only online experiences. The reason is two-fold, these types of experiences are popular, and they do not suffer as much in terms of piracy.
Let's not pretend, how many real life studios/game developers do you know that actually ceased completely or mostly to develop normal games and instead threw all their weight behind making MMOs or F2P games? Sure some have started to make 1 or 2 MMOs on the side, but completely stop making console or PC games in favor of MMOs?Let's pretend you're an investor. You're putting up MILLIONS of your hard earned cash. You can support a developer makign the next online multi-player experience. He'll say that piracy won't eb an issue, development time will be a couple of years, and look at Guildwars2, Diablo3, and the successful free to play models out there.
On the other hand you cna support a studio that wants to put out a deep, single player game. Development time is 5 years, it'll cost a lot more than the online game, and will be pirated up the @ss by all the freeloaders of the world.
Which one are you going to invest in?
Kinthalis
In theory: Its supposed to halt, or reduce the pirating of games.
In reality: It doesn't work, even the people that are so adamant about this DRM, turn around and say that it doesn't work, still force it on you. For the paying customer, its many hoops you have to go through to play something you paid for. Sometimes it is to extremely ridiculous points.
So what we actually have is the inability to asses what is actually working, and what is not, and make changes according to that. Which is also a problem with many things, including basic infrastructure, of the country I live in. Either due to ego, or various loyalties.
It was supposed to put an end to game piracy entirely. The problem was that it punished both pirates and the legitimate gamer making it unpopular. It was born out of an almost paranoid fear of piracy and overzealous company policies.
To maintain the market system in the sphere of intellectual property.
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