When are you getting spore?

What's with everyone's beef about the copy protection?

- We authenticate your game online when you install and launch it the first time.
- We'll re-authenticate when a player uses online features, downloads new content or a patch for their game.
- The new system means you don't have to play with the disc in your computer. And if you are like me, always losing discs, this will be a huge benefit.
- You'll still be able to install and play on multiple computers.
- You can play offline.

That's the copy protection. Big whoop.

The only reason someone could complain about that is if they're upset that they can't pirate the game, since they wouldn't be able to authenticate it upon install. Buy it, then you wont have that problem.

As for me, I've already got it pre-loaded via EAstore. Now to wait the 7days 6hours for it to unlock...

sircyrus

Nice. I'm complaining about the copy protection because I don't want to have to either call EA (toll call) or email EA (24-48 hours minimum turnaround) to reinstall and activate my game within a year. Maybe you missed it, but they are supposedly only allowing 3 activations of the game. Three. As in, one two three, yer out! After that, you have to contact EA tech support and maybe, MAYBE, they'll give you another activation. Go ahead and mosey on over to the Bioware forums for Mass Effect, see how well that's worked out for them so far. Add to that they aren't exactly being clear on what triggers an activation (as in, we don't know how much of a hardware change is needed to trigger it) and it's not looking too customer friendly. Given that EA has openly stated they want to stomp out the used game market, I'd say it's downright customer hostile. If you are too blind to see the problem here, you are beyond my help.

Also, if you really think that this is going to stop pirates from pirating the game, you aren't paying attention. Mass Effect has the exact same protection on it. A partially working crack was out in a day, a fully working crack within 2 weeks (might have been sooner, I wasn't really paying attention, I don't pirate). This DRM has nothing to do with preventing piracy, and everything to do with controlling the consumer. Don't make the mistake of thinking it isn't.

I'm not a pirate. I have no pirated games in my collection. I pay for my games, and buy them from reputable retailers such as Gamestop and Amazon. My collection numbers over 400 titles. I dislike piracy as a rule, and do not associate with those who pirate. I have no friends who pirate games. I have no family who pirate games. I respect the rights of content creators, and believe that they should have the right to seek to make a fair profit from their creativity, as long as they don't violate my rights in the process. EA, I feel, has crossed that line. So, I'm going to complain about their DRM. Go ahead, call me a pirate again because of that. You'll be wrong, and you won't look very smart, but go ahead anyway if you'd like. Won't bother me that you refuse to see what's happening.

What's with everyone's beef about the copy protection?

That's the copy protection. Big whoop.

The only reason someone could complain about that is if they're upset that they can't pirate the game, since they wouldn't be able to authenticate it upon install. Buy it, then you wont have that problem.

As for me, I've already got it pre-loaded via EAstore. Now to wait the 7days 6hours for it to unlock...

sircyrus

Maybe you should do a little research before complaining. What you quoted isn't what people are complaining about, we are complaining about the three activation limits the game has. When your three activations has been used you need to contact EA (either through a non-free call to them or by email, which could take quite a long time. If you're lucky it only takes a week). When you contact them they MIGHT give you ONE more activation... or they might lock you out so you can NEVER (legally anyway) play the game again, unless you buy a new copy

What exactly causes an activation to be used is uncertain, but from information about this read around the net (the exact same protection is used in Bioshock and Mass Effect AFAIK) these things might trigger it:

Upgrades to your computer (even upgrading RAM could in some cases trigger it. And I wouldn't be surprised if this also includes changing your monitor)

Updating drivers (EA has only said that updating drivers "SHOULD not trigger an activation", but some who bought the above games tells us a different story)

Reinstalling Windows (This DOES trigger an activation for sure... and a lot people do reinstall Windows at least once per year)

Getting a new computer (This DOES trigger an activation for sure)

In the past 12 months I have upgraded my computer (down to two activations), reinstalled Windows (down to one activation) and updated my drivers a lot of times (which could in worst case scenario mean that I have no more activations left... actually I'd be in the negative, so I would have to contect EA quite a lot)

And the myth about uninstalling Spore will give an activation back has been busted by EA, who has said it will not do that

In worst case scenario you could end up with a game that cannot be played legally in six months

And about your comment about pirates being the only ones who should be afraid? I sure hope it's a joke. Pirates wont have any problems with this copy protection (how ironic), they can install it 20 times within 20 days and wont have to worry about not being able to activate

I will be getting it on release - and after speaking with the local computer game store guy today should be Mon 01/09 or Tues 02/09 - release date was 04/09

What's with everyone's beef about the copy protection?

That's the copy protection. Big whoop.

The only reason someone could complain about that is if they're upset that they can't pirate the game, since they wouldn't be able to authenticate it upon install. Buy it, then you wont have that problem.

As for me, I've already got it pre-loaded via EAstore. Now to wait the 7days 6hours for it to unlock...

sircyrus

I don't get why people continue to say such stupid things :|. WAKE UP!!! the ones that actually buy games complain about this, not pirates, pirates don't give a **** because they WILL PIRATE it and they WON'T HAVE such PROBLEMS. No pirate is upset about a copy protection because they will get the game no matter what, they just have to wait 2 or max 4 days after it's release for it to be cracked (max 4 days, something that most of us wait 2,3 or even 4 times as much for the game to be available everywhere to buy).

Get it through your thick skull, you and everybody that thinks they have the answer, pirates don't give a **** about the protection, they will get the game and have no problems, but that is not the case with legit buyers, that have to deal with substandard EA support.

I will be getting it on release - and after speaking with the local computer game store guy today should be Mon 01/09 or Tues 02/09 - release date was 04/09

Fandangle

It's already out in GAME and EB have it set to release on the 2nd so you won't be getting it too early. But yeah since I pre-ordered it as EB I will be getting it on the 2nd :) and yes I do mean GAME and EB Australia.

Maybe you should do a little research before complaining. What you quoted isn't what people are complaining about, we are complaining about the three activation limits the game has. When your three activations has been used you need to contact EA (either through a non-free call to them or by email, which could take quite a long time. If you're lucky it only takes a week). When you contact them they MIGHT give you ONE more activation... or they might lock you out so you can NEVER (legally anyway) play the game again, unless you buy a new copyADG_

If I ever do run out installs I can contact their support. I don't see the big deal. If it's legit they will give you a new install.

Have you ever played a MMO where you've quit playing, then lost your password or username? And since the account was tied to an old e-mail you have to contact support to get around that problem? Same deal here. Unless you contact them, you're locked out of the game. I fail to see the problem.

Is it the best method for them to be using? Of course not.

Will it stop pirating? Overall, absolutely not. But it will stop some.

And about your comment about pirates being the only ones who should be afraid? I sure hope it's a joke. Pirates wont have any problems with this copy protection (how ironic), they can install it 20 times within 20 days and wont have to worry about not being able to activateADG_

I don't like EA. I don't like their business practices, how they treat their employees, or what they're doing to the gaming industry as a whole. However, I can still see their need for some form of anti-piracy, even if it is less than ideal. Whether some PC gamers want to admit it or not, piracy is threatening the industry. They have to find a way to combat it.

While this isn't going to stop pirates from using the game once they get their workarounds in place, it will stop the little Jimmies who buy a game and then give it to all of their friends so they can install it too.

I'd rather have to suffer through some inconveniences than have developers simply make all the games for consoles first, then port to PC in order to be able to make a profit. As it stands, unless they do something to combat the pirating problem we'll soon be saying goodbye to PC exclusives. Several companies have already abandoned the PC exclusives, and in some cases studios had to shut down due to piracy affecting their sales so much.

How many times do you reinstall games? I doubt if I do it more than 3 times

sircyrus

The best games in my collection I have probably installed like 20 times since I bought them. If this is the case with Spore, then I would then have the need to contact them 17 times
But then you kinda ignored pretty much EVERYThing I wrote. It's not only installs that takes an activation, but also upgrades to your computer (among other things). And I do upgrade my computer a lot of times (upgraded twice in the past 12 months... if I installed before the first upgrade, then I'd be out of activations now. Oh, and I just reinstalled Windows a few days ago. That's FOUR activations gone within 12 months)

If I ever do run out installs I can contact their support. I don't see the big deal. If it's legit they will give you a new install

sircyrus

Have you ever tried to contact their support? Doesn't sound like that. A couple of months ago I sent them an email, asking them to fix something that should be extremely easy for them to fix. Five days later I got an email, which required me to send a response back so that they could fix it. Five days later again they sent a response, proving that they had not read ANY of the previous emails. I sent a email back asking them to read the mails. Five days later I get another response (and five days later again pretty much the same response) again with proof that they didn't read ANY of the previous emails. One month gone, but the extremely simple problem was still not solved

If that is anything to go by, then it would probably take them at least 1½ months to give you another activation, as giving another activation is much more advanced than my simple problem (which was a server side problem, not a problem from my side)... even though it should still be simple, it can't be more simple than my problem

Of course some people can just call them (probably with a long waiting time, paid by you of course), but EA doesn't have a support hotline in all countries. And I'm not interested in paying for a long distance call to another country

I don't like EA. I don't like their business practices, how they treat their employees, or what they're doing to the gaming industry as a whole. However, I can still see their need for some form of anti-piracy, even if it is less than ideal. Whether some PC gamers want to admit it or not, piracy is threatening the industry. They have to find a way to combat it.

While this isn't going to stop pirates from using the game once they get their workarounds in place, it will stop the little Jimmies who buy a game and then give it to all of their friends so they can install it too

sircyrus

Why doesn't they look at Steam then? Sure, Steam games can be cracked pretty fast, but it's still too advanced for little Jimmy to do it himself. So from the piracy point of view Steam protects it's games just as well as Securom protected games, but doesn't annoy the users that much... at least as far as I know, I've never actually bought any games from Steam, so I don't know from personal experience

But then you kinda ignored pretty much EVERYThing I wrote. It's not only installs that takes an activation, but also upgrades to your computer (among other things). And I do upgrade my computer a lot of times (upgraded twice in the past 12 months... if I installed before the first upgrade, then I'd be out of activations now.ADG_

If it turns out their system is faulty (which most likely it is), think about what will happen...

The Sims is the best selling PC game of all time by a longshot, having sold over 100 million copies. Assuming even 10% of those consumers buy Spore, that's still far more than most other best sellers (10million copies).

Now imagine if 10% of those consumers have problems with installations. Either reinstalling it too often, or if reinstalling their O/S or replacing hardware messes it up. That'd be 1million customer service complaints, all surrounding the same issue.

They have said they will be evaluating extending the install authentication on a case-by-case basis. That will be one massive job for the workers.

Now keeping all that in mind, what is the best way of protesting this decision?

A) Not buying the game.
-The game will still sell massive amounts of copies.
-They wont even notice the people who don't buy it because of SecuRom.
-This group is anonymous and will change nothing.

B) Pirating the game to get around authentication.
-Again, the game will still sell massive amounts of copies.
-The only thing pirating the game will do is convince them to pursue even harsher means of controlling their creation.
-This group is again anonymous. Perhaps not anonymous in number, but anonymous for their reasons.

C) Purchasing the game, playing it until it causes install problems, then contacting support.
-This person eventually becomes part of a massive support headache, all contacting their support for the same reasons.
-This person is potential bad press for the company, with potentially hundreds of thousands complaining that they can't use the game they paid for. It tarnishes their image.

If you want them to change things you're better off becoming a headache for them due to their solution, not becoming part of the problem they're trying to stop.

While growing, up my dad managed tech support call centers for several companies, including IBM. Companies frequently make decisions with no apparent thought as to how it's going to affect their support centers. I grew up hearing the rants about it from my dad, overstressed from his work. When the companies make those decisions, however, the support becomes overwhelmed and you get unhappy customers. Only then are the beancounters willing to admit they need to change policies, since staying their course would result in a nasty (or nastier, in EA's case) reputation and less customers.

You can't appeal to EA to get rid of SecuRom. They've got it in their minds that it's the way to go... most likely a decision made by someone who has no idea what it will mean. Force them to realize. Break their customer support division and they'll be forced to change policy.

Through my dad's own experiences, I watched this happen multiple times in companies far larger than EA, with support centers that easily dwarf those of EA's. That is how you will get it changed.

Have you ever tried to contact their support? Doesn't sound like that.ADG_

My experiences with using e-mail support with most companies (not just EA) has been similar to your own description.

Why doesn't they look at Steam then? Sure, Steam games can be cracked pretty fast, but it's still too advanced for little Jimmy to do it himself. So from the piracy point of view Steam protects it's games just as well as Securom protected games, but doesn't annoy the users that much... at least as far as I know, I've never actually bought any games from Steam, so I don't know from personal experienceADG_

Plus I really doubt they'd want to use Steam, since it's their competition.

[QUOTE="ADG_"]Maybe you should do a little research before complaining. What you quoted isn't what people are complaining about, we are complaining about the three activation limits the game has. When your three activations has been used you need to contact EA (either through a non-free call to them or by email, which could take quite a long time. If you're lucky it only takes a week). When you contact them they MIGHT give you ONE more activation... or they might lock you out so you can NEVER (legally anyway) play the game again, unless you buy a new copysircyrus

If I ever do run out installs I can contact their support. I don't see the big deal. If it's legit they will give you a new install.

Have you ever played a MMO where you've quit playing, then lost your password or username? And since the account was tied to an old e-mail you have to contact support to get around that problem? Same deal here. Unless you contact them, you're locked out of the game. I fail to see the problem.

Let's see, games I've installed more than three times, due to replacing hard drives, reformatting and reinstalling OS's, new computers, etc: Deus Ex, Thief (all three), Fallout (both), Max Payne (both), Diablo (both), Sims and expansions (all), Alice, AvP2, Call of Duty 2, Medal of Honor: AA, Chronicles of Riddick, Everquest, FEAR, Gothic, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Morrowind, Sacred... I can go on, it's a damned long list. Now, imagine that I have just replaced my computer, and I'm now reinstalling my games... You think I should have to call or email for each game to get all my games up and running? Are you on drugs? I know it's not THAT big a deal when it's only one or two games. But it's not going to be only one or two games, it's going to be all of EA games. I don't have that kind of time.

They want to waste my time, my money, violate my rights... all to control the market. They know it won't even slow down the pirates, so that can't be the reason they are doing this. Sorry, I'm not playing, and I can live without EA games. Not an easy decision on my part, you understand. I wanted Spore, I want the Sims 3, I want Dragon Age, I'm going to want the next Sim City, there are a lot of games they are publishing that I want, but it just isn't worth it. So until they wise up, they can do without my dollars.

Oh, and just to respond to a later point you made, about buying the games even though you are unhappy, because you not buying won't make a difference? I'm very glad there are a lot of people in the past who didn't think like you on more important topics. If everyone takes that attitude (and I see a lot of it), then yeh, it won't make any difference. Apathy and inaction rarely change anything.

And I don't think they're going to have much problems with it, though. Mass Effect was the test run, and the vast, vast majority of the customers didn't have a problem with the system.Makari

You think I should have to call or email for each game to get all my games up and running? Are you on drugs? I know it's not THAT big a deal when it's only one or two games. But it's not going to be only one or two games, it's going to be all of EA games. I don't have that kind of time.Royas

They want to waste my time, my money, violate my rights... all to control the market.Royas

It has nothing to do with your rights. You're coming off as though they're driving tanks onto your front lawn. It's a gross overreaction to a minor inconvenience, if the situation will even ever come up for you. It doesn't violate any of your rights.

Oh, and just to respond to a later point you made, about buying the games even though you are unhappy, because you not buying won't make a difference? I'm very glad there are a lot of people in the past who didn't think like you on more important topics. If everyone takes that attitude (and I see a lot of it), then yeh, it won't make any difference. Apathy and inaction rarely change anything.Royas

I said to buy the game and use it until it stops working, then contact their support. What sends out a stronger message? Making an angry post on a message board that they'll never see? Or them having it on file that X number of customers have been having to call their customer support for the same issue, overstressing their employee workload?

Only one of those scenarios is a frivolous exercise in apathy or inaction, and it is not the scenario I had suggested.

What sends out a stronger message? Making an angry post on a message board that they'll never see? Or them having it on file that X number of customers have been having to call their customer support for the same issue, overstressing their employee workload?sircyrus

[QUOTE="Royas"]You think I should have to call or email for each game to get all my games up and running? Are you on drugs? I know it's not THAT big a deal when it's only one or two games. But it's not going to be only one or two games, it's going to be all of EA games. I don't have that kind of time.sircyrus

EA tech support has always been a problem. If you call, it's a toll call (they don't have an 800 number) taking something like 10 to 20 minutes. If you email, it takes at least 24 hours to get a response, and the response is almost always a canned form letter that doesn't even address your original problem. I've had to contact EA three times, each time it's taken at least two emails before I was even talking to a person instead of an auto responder. Each problem took over a week to get any kind of solution. It's already been reported with Mass Effect that at least some of the EA tech people didn't even know they were supposed to be doing the activations. In one case (sorry, I don't have the link right now, I'll try to find it) it took something like 6 days. Just to be allowed to play the game they bought. Multiply that by many games, and you have a serious problem for the consumer.

[QUOTE="Royas"]They want to waste my time, my money, violate my rights... all to control the market.sircyrus

It has nothing to do with your rights. You're coming off as though they're driving tanks onto your front lawn. It's a gross overreaction to a minor inconvenience, if the situation will even ever come up for you. It doesn't violate any of your rights.

Actually, I speak of the right of first sale. In the USA, that's a right that's actually enshrined in the constitution under fair use. Basically, I have the right to sell what I buy. Limited activations put a noose on that right, thus violating it. Even if it isn't technically violating actual rights, I think it's pretty clear they are opening the door for more egregious violations in the future. The slippery slope may be a fallacy in logical argument, but when it comes to corporations it seems to hold true. They do seem to like to see just how much they can get away with. As I understand, the legal violations may be even worse in some European countries. On the Mass Effect boards, buried in the earlier threads on the DRM (good luck finding them now), it was mentioned that the whole activation scheme might be technically illegal in Germany. Dunno if that's true. Admittedly, it's not driving tanks on my front lawn, as you say. But I won't stand for small violations or large violations. Only difference is, I won't shoot them over a small one like this. I save violence for the big problems. :twisted:

[QUOTE="Royas"]Oh, and just to respond to a later point you made, about buying the games even though you are unhappy, because you not buying won't make a difference? I'm very glad there are a lot of people in the past who didn't think like you on more important topics. If everyone takes that attitude (and I see a lot of it), then yeh, it won't make any difference. Apathy and inaction rarely change anything.sircyrus

I said to buy the game and use it until it stops working, then contact their support. What sends out a stronger message? Making an angry post on a message board that they'll never see? Or them having it on file that X number of customers have been having to call their customer support for the same issue, overstressing their employee workload?

Only one of those scenarios is a frivolous exercise in apathy or inaction, and it is not the scenario I had suggested.

Beg pardon if I misunderstood your point, I stand corrected. I think I should also apologize for my somewhat hostile tone. Reading back over my posts, I think I may have been a bit abrupt, and that was not intended. This is a hot button topic for me, and I tend to get a bit... testy... when I post on it. As you can probably tell, I'm pretty solidly anti-DRM of any kind.

My point is that buying the game in the first place sends them a message that the DRM is acceptable to me. They don't give a damn about the problems with tech support, or they would have fixed that aspect of their company years ago. Admittedly, complaining here is whistling in the wind (although I wouldn't be surprised if somebody from EA was at least skimming the forums here), but I've also complained on their message boards. Besides, gotta have somewhere to vent :)

Best way to send a message to a company... stop buying from them, and tell them why. Enough people do that, they will change their policies. After they have the sale, they don't care what you do, they already have your money, and they know that you'll come back again and again and again. Even if that's not true, it's what they think. That's why I don't think your suggestion will work, although it's not badly thought out.

Approximately never.fatshodan

Concurs.

Btw, fatshodan...I really like your comments here. Just saying. Cheers.