Why do you like Guild Wars better than WoW?

[QUOTE="-Unreal-"]

I'd like to see anyone that doesn't think WoW's PvP takes skill to prove they have achieved anything in the PvP of the game to make that credible.

vfibsux

Games like WoW and Warhammer take some skill to play but skill comes a far second after gear. People like you who are obviously proud of your pvp prowess on that game are going to take offense to someone saying your skill has little to do with your success, sorry but it is true. If you excel at pvp on either of those games you are likely one of the better geared people playing and would not be caught dead with lesser gear on. I take it you have "Achieved anything in the pvp of the game" since you made the statement. The only skill involved in those games is knowledge of the class you are fighting and reacting to what that class is doing to you. Other than that.......g-e-a-r wins.

Thats actually in fact WRONG.. When you do arena it matches you up to people your level.. And when you get high up, not from just time spent but games won.. You will be facing people that have similar gear to you.. This may not be the case for open area BG's.. But WoW gives a great balance of the two..

Furthermore Warhammer is not like this either.. Gear does make some difference, except for the fact its not hard to get and really it comes down to team work.. I personally thought Warhammer to be the better pvp experience ona skill basis.. It was more methodical and slowed down that led to far better decision making..

Guild Wars is obviously going to be more balanced simply due to the fact there is no gear, there is no levels.. But that doesn't mean WoW and Warhammer can be pretty damn good.. Esperically in arena with WoW..

Cant we all just agree that both WoW and guild wars PVP take a fair share of skill. They are both one of the few Online RPG's that are played competetively. I like both games for that matter, though I am enjoying WoW more atm.

You can use the gear arguement, and gear is a strong component in PvP. However, the fact that you usually face people of similar gear in the arena means it isnt such a strong arguement. Also deciding on what to equip deepens the game (trinkets and such).

Cant we all just agree that both WoW and guild wars PVP take a fair share of skill. They are both one of the few Online RPG's that are played competetively. I like both games for that matter, though I am enjoying WoW more atm.

You can use the gear arguement, and gear is a strong component in PvP. However, the fact that you usually face people of similar gear in the arena means it isnt such a strong arguement. Also deciding on what to equip deepens the game (trinkets and such).

Maroxad

Not in the arena side of things.. As you rank up your gaining gear.. And your going to be facing people of similar ranking, meaning they have similar gear to you.. They match make for your pvp..

lol.

You argue that pvp in WoW is not gear based because of matchmaking? Of course if all have equal gear then it comes down to skill, but that is not what we are talking about here. I am talking about flat out open world pvp, if you have significantly better gear than I do you are likely going to win no matter how good I am. There is no mystery to this logic, it is simple logic.

In Warhammer for example there is no matchmaking out there in open rvr, my full sov Marauder will wipe the floor with any class not in at least5 or 6 pieces of sovgear. Warlord is the gear just below sov, no way is anyone in full Warlord taking me out unless they are playing an unbalanced class, which takes even less skill than gear. The only time skill factors in is when it is an equal fight, which is rare.

So yes in rated bg's where you are being matched with others in similar gear it all comes down to skill, that is common sense....but that is not the discussion. Your argument can basically go unstated because when all else is equal skill is the only dynamic factor simply by default.

Speaking of PvP and arenas. One thing I hope in a future patch is that they do what EQ2 did in which they would give some spells slightly different effects for PvP and PvE, so they wouldnt have to nerf a class's PvE viability for PvP.

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

Cant we all just agree that both WoW and guild wars PVP take a fair share of skill. They are both one of the few Online RPG's that are played competetively. I like both games for that matter, though I am enjoying WoW more atm.

You can use the gear arguement, and gear is a strong component in PvP. However, the fact that you usually face people of similar gear in the arena means it isnt such a strong arguement. Also deciding on what to equip deepens the game (trinkets and such).

sSubZerOo

Not in the arena side of things.. As you rank up your gaining gear.. And your going to be facing people of similar ranking, meaning they have similar gear to you.. They match make for your pvp..

Which is what I said, or meant. in the bolded part. :) Or at least it was like that back when I played arenas.

World of Warcraft is superior to Guild Wars in every way. It appears that not having a sub for your MMO ( or CORPG, whatever ) really brings the game down.

Guild Wars I just couldn't get into. Everquest 2, Warhammer Online, LotrO are also way ahead of Guild Wars. Never mind World of Warcraft.

lol.

You argue that pvp in WoW is not gear based because of matchmaking? Of course if all have equal gear then it comes down to skill, but that is not what we are talking about here. I am talking about flat out open world pvp, if you have significantly better gear than I do you are likely going to win no matter how good I am. There is no mystery to this logic, it is simple logic.

In Warhammer for example there is no matchmaking out there in open rvr, my full sov Marauder will wipe the floor with any class not in at least5 or 6 pieces of sovgear. Warlord is the gear just below sov, no way is anyone in full Warlord taking me out unless they are playing an unbalanced class, which takes even less skill than gear. The only time skill factors in is when it is an equal fight, which is rare.

So yes in rated bg's where you are being matched with others in similar gear it all comes down to skill, that is common sense....but that is not the discussion. Your argument can basically go unstated because when all else is equal skill is the only dynamic factor simply by default.

vfibsux

We are comparing it to Guild Wars pvp.. There is no open world pvp, its all matches in small instances.. So I don't see what the hell your talking about.. They are not good comparisons, especially when we are comparing it to Guild Wars.. And Guild Wars matches are not open world.. As for the Warhammer part.. OF COURSE.. Do people seriously some that dedicates themself to a rpg esque arn't going to be at least alittle bit more powerful? Do you guys even realize thats the entire point of MMO's in general in building up, thats one of the MAIN reasons why to me Guild Wars died so fast.. There was no real accomplishment what so ever.. To me it seems like you don't want to play rpg's in general, because this is cornerstone of them..

If gear wouldn't be a requirement then WoW would make no sense, melee wouldn't make sense because of casters and casters wouldn't make sense because melee makes no sense.

Getting low-mid level PvP gear is "extremely" easy in Cataclysm, because Blizz wants all to have access to PvP, getting the best gear requires dedication. If you don't have gear you just do random bgs till you have, after you do and you play ranked why on earth do you care about your enemies? they obviously wouldn't join ranked matches without being prepared for them and what does it matter how or why you beat them? I thought people play games for fun and if they're competitive they kill what they can if not come back and try again, are you seriously asking yourself those questions? in PvP, if the enemy is dead, you're good, simple as that.

Once you get good gear and you're able to play at the "designed" normal PvP level, you're either bad or good, what the other player did when he/she failed to kill is of no concern to you, because no matter what you say nobody would believe that somebody is asking himself/herself if he/she really is good at PvP and if the other player was on equal grounds.

DanielDust

also, "getting the best gear requires dedication". really? i should be dedicated to become a better player, such as in starcraft, not dedicated to grind gear. because if i want to pvp in arenas, it's because i enjoy arenas. i don't want to grind battlegrounds so that i get good gear so that i can compete in arenas. "i thought people play games for fun". ofcourse i play games for fun, but if my fun is in arenas i shouldn't be forced to grind for gear in battlegrounds before i can be competitive in arenas. that is NOT fun.

[QUOTE="DanielDust"]

If gear wouldn't be a requirement then WoW would make no sense, melee wouldn't make sense because of casters and casters wouldn't make sense because melee makes no sense.

Getting low-mid level PvP gear is "extremely" easy in Cataclysm, because Blizz wants all to have access to PvP, getting the best gear requires dedication. If you don't have gear you just do random bgs till you have, after you do and you play ranked why on earth do you care about your enemies? they obviously wouldn't join ranked matches without being prepared for them and what does it matter how or why you beat them? I thought people play games for fun and if they're competitive they kill what they can if not come back and try again, are you seriously asking yourself those questions? in PvP, if the enemy is dead, you're good, simple as that.

Once you get good gear and you're able to play at the "designed" normal PvP level, you're either bad or good, what the other player did when he/she failed to kill is of no concern to you, because no matter what you say nobody would believe that somebody is asking himself/herself if he/she really is good at PvP and if the other player was on equal grounds.

Kh1ndjal

also, "getting the best gear requires dedication". really? i should be dedicated to become a better player, such as in starcraft, not dedicated to grind gear. because if i want to pvp in arenas, it's because i enjoy arenas. i don't want to grind battlegrounds so that i get good gear so that i can compete in arenas. "i thought people play games for fun". ofcourse i play games for fun, but if my fun is in arenas i shouldn't be forced to grind for gear in battlegrounds before i can be competitive in arenas. that is NOT fun.

... Well you said it self.. You do not like MMORPG's.. Leagues.. Guild Wars, are not these.. One of the main draws of MMORPG's is progression.. Something distinctly every game you mentioned is non existent.... WoW has tried to make a balance between the two with arena's, bg's and the event ones.. Your asking for something that WoW never wanted to be, or really any MMORPG out there with the typical, so I suggest you don't complain about this because its not the game your looking for.

Do people seriously some that dedicates themself to a rpg esque arn't going to be at least alittle bit more powerful? Do you guys even realize thats the entire point of MMO's in general in building up, thats one of the MAIN reasons why to me Guild Wars died so fast.. There was no real accomplishment what so ever.. To me it seems like you don't want to play rpg's in general, because this is cornerstone of them..

sSubZerOo

[QUOTE="Kh1ndjal"]

[QUOTE="DanielDust"]

If gear wouldn't be a requirement then WoW would make no sense, melee wouldn't make sense because of casters and casters wouldn't make sense because melee makes no sense.

Getting low-mid level PvP gear is "extremely" easy in Cataclysm, because Blizz wants all to have access to PvP, getting the best gear requires dedication. If you don't have gear you just do random bgs till you have, after you do and you play ranked why on earth do you care about your enemies? they obviously wouldn't join ranked matches without being prepared for them and what does it matter how or why you beat them? I thought people play games for fun and if they're competitive they kill what they can if not come back and try again, are you seriously asking yourself those questions? in PvP, if the enemy is dead, you're good, simple as that.

Once you get good gear and you're able to play at the "designed" normal PvP level, you're either bad or good, what the other player did when he/she failed to kill is of no concern to you, because no matter what you say nobody would believe that somebody is asking himself/herself if he/she really is good at PvP and if the other player was on equal grounds.

sSubZerOo

also, "getting the best gear requires dedication". really? i should be dedicated to become a better player, such as in starcraft, not dedicated to grind gear. because if i want to pvp in arenas, it's because i enjoy arenas. i don't want to grind battlegrounds so that i get good gear so that i can compete in arenas. "i thought people play games for fun". ofcourse i play games for fun, but if my fun is in arenas i shouldn't be forced to grind for gear in battlegrounds before i can be competitive in arenas. that is NOT fun.

... Well you said it self.. You do not like MMORPG's.. Leagues.. Guild Wars, are not these.. One of the main draws of MMORPG's is progression.. Something distinctly every game you mentioned is non existent.... WoW has tried to make a balance between the two with arena's, bg's and the event ones.. Your asking for something that WoW never wanted to be, or really any MMORPG out there with the typical, so I suggest you don't complain about this because its not the game your looking for.

correct me if i am wrong, but there is no mention whatsoever in my post about whether i like the pve or a comparison between guildwars pve and wow pve. don't put words in my figurative mouth.

if you must know i rather enjoy wow pve, perhaps moreso than even guildwars'. but if someone claims that wow's pvp is the better, i politely disagree.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Kh1ndjal"] yes, it matters to an extent. i could toss a coin to determine the winner, i am sure it would be no fun for me if i kept on winning time after time. also, i find it hard to believe that anyone can enjoy competition without caring about the abilities of their opponents. i used to play Guild Wars arena pvp very seriously, and have played dota and still play LoL competitively (by casual standards). i have never enjoyed games where i steamrolled opponents, who were oblivious to what was going on around them. similarly, i haven't enjoyed games where i have been defeated by opponents that have an unfair advantage. the enjoyment that comes from PVP, in my opinion, is purely because of defeating another player. someone at the other end of the connection is sitting there trying to best me in virtual combat, if i defeat that person, that itself is enough reward. getting gear for PVP and from PVP is garbage. i can understand that in raiding and pve where it is part of progression as enemies are found to be stronger and stronger. in PVP, blizzard is telling me, "hey, nobody cares how good you are a player, but if you play long enough we will give you gear".

also, "getting the best gear requires dedication". really? i should be dedicated to become a better player, such as in starcraft, not dedicated to grind gear. because if i want to pvp in arenas, it's because i enjoy arenas. i don't want to grind battlegrounds so that i get good gear so that i can compete in arenas. "i thought people play games for fun". ofcourse i play games for fun, but if my fun is in arenas i shouldn't be forced to grind for gear in battlegrounds before i can be competitive in arenas. that is NOT fun.

Kh1ndjal

... Well you said it self.. You do not like MMORPG's.. Leagues.. Guild Wars, are not these.. One of the main draws of MMORPG's is progression.. Something distinctly every game you mentioned is non existent.... WoW has tried to make a balance between the two with arena's, bg's and the event ones.. Your asking for something that WoW never wanted to be, or really any MMORPG out there with the typical, so I suggest you don't complain about this because its not the game your looking for.

correct me if i am wrong, but there is no mention whatsoever in my post about whether i like the pve or a comparison between guildwars pve and wow pve. don't put words in my figurative mouth.

if you must know i rather enjoy wow pve, perhaps moreso than even guildwars'. but if someone claims that wow's pvp is the better, i politely disagree.

Please point out a MMORPG's pvp thats popular that does not have any progression what so ever..

WoW and Guild Wars were amazing in Vanilla, but Cata has brought WoW close to death. Noobs are flooding the game and everything is too...easy? But, I hear that a game called Rift is vying to be the WoW killer. It has dynamic classes that can be uber customized, like an archer that can teleport, or a rouge that can be a healer. Seems really cool. Keep an eye on it. And, if you want a game on the cheap, LOTRO is good. It's more realistic than WoW and pretty to look at. Its also free. But if it seems too cookie cutter for you, give Vindictus a shot. It runs on Valve's Source engine, so you can pick up all sorts of things, even use dead enemies for weapons! However, until rift comes out, I'm hooked on WoW. Not gonna get Cata, though. At least not until they fix some of it's weaker aspects.

I liked Guild Wars but it is not in WoW's league. It has much less content, invisible walls everywhere, too linear, no real end game PvE stuff.

I played wow up to lvl. 15, but couldn't get into it. GW... well 7 lvl. 20 characters later and I think it's the superior game. Not that I'm into it anymore.

[QUOTE="Kh1ndjal"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

... Well you said it self.. You do not like MMORPG's.. Leagues.. Guild Wars, are not these.. One of the main draws of MMORPG's is progression.. Something distinctly every game you mentioned is non existent.... WoW has tried to make a balance between the two with arena's, bg's and the event ones.. Your asking for something that WoW never wanted to be, or really any MMORPG out there with the typical, so I suggest you don't complain about this because its not the game your looking for.

sSubZerOo

correct me if i am wrong, but there is no mention whatsoever in my post about whether i like the pve or a comparison between guildwars pve and wow pve. don't put words in my figurative mouth.

if you must know i rather enjoy wow pve, perhaps moreso than even guildwars'. but if someone claims that wow's pvp is the better, i politely disagree.

Please point out a MMORPG's pvp thats popular that does not have any progression what so ever..