Will The Old Republic have a monthly fee???

their audio score alone is over half the game rotfl. this game is going to flop and yes it will probably have monthly fee's. im sorry but i just dont see this game to be much of an improvement over sw: galaxies. in fact i see it to probably offer little over the former tabula rasa or for those who can remember it: phantasy star universe.

if anything id expect swtor in the same light i place the following in:

everyone and their dog thinks they can make an mmo

however everyone and their dog fail to realise that not every franchise and subject matter is MMO material. it takes a very special team of people with the right direction and budget to turn a franchise into a righteous mmo. do you know how many mmo's are coming to us in the forseeable future? a few HUNDRED and thats after you omit the expansions and mislabeled dlc's. and this .. flood of mmo's will cause the market to become saturated. it will chop up and divide the communities of mmo's to the four corners of the internet.

an mmo rely's on a closely knit community to remain alive.. if this community does not exist it either falls through the cracks into obscurity or it falls of the table into the wastebin. now naturally we will eventually sort the wheat from the chaffe but until and whe we do alot of franchises are going to get burned and many of them will suffer.

be you magical land online or hello kitty or star wars.. expect yourself to get burned or at least your reputation and influence to get burned more than any actor that survived the hollywood blacklist.

its a plain and simple matter. franchises are going to get burned by those wanting profit over quality(or vice versa) and those that cant find the magic balance between the two. that makes an mmo successful.

NO FRANCHISE IS SAFE

their audio score alone is over half the game rotfl. this game is going to flop and yes it will probably have monthly fee's. im sorry but i just dont see this game to be much of an improvement over sw: galaxies. in fact i see it to probably offer little over the former tabula rasa or for those who can remember it: phantasy star universe.

if anything id expect swtor in the same light i place the following in:

everyone and their dog thinks they can make an mmo

however everyone and their dog fail to realise that not every franchise and subject matter is MMO material. it takes a very special team of people with the right direction and budget to turn a franchise into a righteous mmo. do you know how many mmo's are coming to us in the forseeable future? a few HUNDRED and thats after you omit the expansions and mislabeled dlc's. and this .. flood of mmo's will cause the market to become saturated. it will chop up and divide the communities of mmo's to the four corners of the internet.

an mmo rely's on a closely knit community to remain alive.. if this community does not exist it either falls through the cracks into obscurity or it falls of the table into the wastebin. now naturally we will eventually sort the wheat from the chaffe but until and whe we do alot of franchises are going to get burned and many of them will suffer.

be you magical land online or hello kitty or star wars.. expect yourself to get burned or at least your reputation and influence to get burned more than any actor that survived the hollywood blacklist.

its a plain and simple matter. franchises are going to get burned by those wanting profit over quality(or vice versa) and those that cant find the magic balance between the two. that makes an mmo successful.

NO FRANCHISE IS SAFE

ionusX

[QUOTE="ionusX"]

their audio score alone is over half the game rotfl. this game is going to flop and yes it will probably have monthly fee's. im sorry but i just dont see this game to be much of an improvement over sw: galaxies. in fact i see it to probably offer little over the former tabula rasa or for those who can remember it: phantasy star universe.

if anything id expect swtor in the same light i place the following in:

everyone and their dog thinks they can make an mmo

however everyone and their dog fail to realise that not every franchise and subject matter is MMO material. it takes a very special team of people with the right direction and budget to turn a franchise into a righteous mmo. do you know how many mmo's are coming to us in the forseeable future? a few HUNDRED and thats after you omit the expansions and mislabeled dlc's. and this .. flood of mmo's will cause the market to become saturated. it will chop up and divide the communities of mmo's to the four corners of the internet.

an mmo rely's on a closely knit community to remain alive.. if this community does not exist it either falls through the cracks into obscurity or it falls of the table into the wastebin. now naturally we will eventually sort the wheat from the chaffe but until and whe we do alot of franchises are going to get burned and many of them will suffer.

be you magical land online or hello kitty or star wars.. expect yourself to get burned or at least your reputation and influence to get burned more than any actor that survived the hollywood blacklist.

its a plain and simple matter. franchises are going to get burned by those wanting profit over quality(or vice versa) and those that cant find the magic balance between the two. that makes an mmo successful.

NO FRANCHISE IS SAFE

bonafidetk

star wars isnt free of this.. WoW isnt free of this.. no one is safe. to call star wars immune to being used like a trollop to trun a profit and to not bring an environment to life is like saying that there has never been a bad star trek game or a bad final fantasy.. its DOOMED to happen and ts DOOMED to happen again. until you can provide me an example of a game that is 100% free of scrutiny by ANYONE and EVERYONE im afraid you cant say that.

no mmo to date has been 100% perfect (many people will argue one game or another but thats more of their opinion not a fact)

and to say that one day blizzard will stop caring about WoW and turn it into a cheap thrills ride is like saying in 2545 we wont be traveling by jetpack to work and we wont be living on other planets :P

its a simple matter of fact that alot of MMO's are going to get burned and alot of them are going to suffer in the coming months and into 2012. i wouldnt be suprised to see WoW's population drop to under 10 mill and i wouldnt be suprised to see miles of mroe mmo's and adverts for 2 dollar mmo's out in the wild.

to say that everquest was indestructible is a lie.. to say the Wow is indestructile is a lie and to say that swtor is going to be anywhere near as successful or anywhere near as good is a lie.

their audio score alone is over half the game rotfl. this game is going to flop and yes it will probably have monthly fee's. im sorry but i just dont see this game to be much of an improvement over sw: galaxies. in fact i see it to probably offer little over the former tabula rasa or for those who can remember it: phantasy star universe.

if anything id expect swtor in the same light i place the following in:

everyone and their dog thinks they can make an mmo

however everyone and their dog fail to realise that not every franchise and subject matter is MMO material. it takes a very special team of people with the right direction and budget to turn a franchise into a righteous mmo. do you know how many mmo's are coming to us in the forseeable future? a few HUNDRED and thats after you omit the expansions and mislabeled dlc's. and this .. flood of mmo's will cause the market to become saturated. it will chop up and divide the communities of mmo's to the four corners of the internet.

an mmo rely's on a closely knit community to remain alive.. if this community does not exist it either falls through the cracks into obscurity or it falls of the table into the wastebin. now naturally we will eventually sort the wheat from the chaffe but until and whe we do alot of franchises are going to get burned and many of them will suffer.

be you magical land online or hello kitty or star wars.. expect yourself to get burned or at least your reputation and influence to get burned more than any actor that survived the hollywood blacklist.

its a plain and simple matter. franchises are going to get burned by those wanting profit over quality(or vice versa) and those that cant find the magic balance between the two. that makes an mmo successful.

NO FRANCHISE IS SAFE

ionusX

[QUOTE="bonafidetk"][QUOTE="ionusX"]

their audio score alone is over half the game rotfl. this game is going to flop and yes it will probably have monthly fee's. im sorry but i just dont see this game to be much of an improvement over sw: galaxies. in fact i see it to probably offer little over the former tabula rasa or for those who can remember it: phantasy star universe.

if anything id expect swtor in the same light i place the following in:

everyone and their dog thinks they can make an mmo

however everyone and their dog fail to realise that not every franchise and subject matter is MMO material. it takes a very special team of people with the right direction and budget to turn a franchise into a righteous mmo. do you know how many mmo's are coming to us in the forseeable future? a few HUNDRED and thats after you omit the expansions and mislabeled dlc's. and this .. flood of mmo's will cause the market to become saturated. it will chop up and divide the communities of mmo's to the four corners of the internet.

an mmo rely's on a closely knit community to remain alive.. if this community does not exist it either falls through the cracks into obscurity or it falls of the table into the wastebin. now naturally we will eventually sort the wheat from the chaffe but until and whe we do alot of franchises are going to get burned and many of them will suffer.

be you magical land online or hello kitty or star wars.. expect yourself to get burned or at least your reputation and influence to get burned more than any actor that survived the hollywood blacklist.

its a plain and simple matter. franchises are going to get burned by those wanting profit over quality(or vice versa) and those that cant find the magic balance between the two. that makes an mmo successful.

NO FRANCHISE IS SAFE

ionusX

star wars isnt free of this.. WoW isnt free of this.. no one is safe. to call star wars immune to being used like a trollop to trun a profit and to not bring an environment to life is like saying that there has never been a bad star trek game or a bad final fantasy.. its DOOMED to happen and ts DOOMED to happen again. until you can provide me an example of a game that is 100% free of scrutiny by ANYONE and EVERYONE im afraid you cant say that.

no mmo to date has been 100% perfect (many people will argue one game or another but thats more of their opinion not a fact)

and to say that one day blizzard will stop caring about WoW and turn it into a cheap thrills ride is like saying in 2545 we wont be traveling by jetpack to work and we wont be living on other planets :P

its a simple matter of fact that alot of MMO's are going to get burned and alot of them are going to suffer in the coming months and into 2012. i wouldnt be suprised to see WoW's population drop to under 10 mill and i wouldnt be suprised to see miles of mroe mmo's and adverts for 2 dollar mmo's out in the wild.

to say that everquest was indestructible is a lie.. to say the Wow is indestructile is a lie and to say that swtor is going to be anywhere near as successful or anywhere near as good is a lie.

Guild Wars isn't an MMO.

-Unreal-

[QUOTE="ionusX"]

[QUOTE="bonafidetk"] There is no franchise on the planet more perfect for an MMORPG than StarWars.SkyWard20

star wars isnt free of this.. WoW isnt free of this.. no one is safe. to call star wars immune to being used like a trollop to trun a profit and to not bring an environment to life is like saying that there has never been a bad star trek game or a bad final fantasy.. its DOOMED to happen and ts DOOMED to happen again. until you can provide me an example of a game that is 100% free of scrutiny by ANYONE and EVERYONE im afraid you cant say that.

no mmo to date has been 100% perfect (many people will argue one game or another but thats more of their opinion not a fact)

and to say that one day blizzard will stop caring about WoW and turn it into a cheap thrills ride is like saying in 2545 we wont be traveling by jetpack to work and we wont be living on other planets :P

its a simple matter of fact that alot of MMO's are going to get burned and alot of them are going to suffer in the coming months and into 2012. i wouldnt be suprised to see WoW's population drop to under 10 mill and i wouldnt be suprised to see miles of mroe mmo's and adverts for 2 dollar mmo's out in the wild.

to say that everquest was indestructible is a lie.. to say the Wow is indestructile is a lie and to say that swtor is going to be anywhere near as successful or anywhere near as good is a lie.

too many of em.. saturation of the market. people will up leave their existing one or potential new ses will wind up in other ones.. there is alot of em coming.. go check the gmmo list here or on mmorpg.com.. piles of em :P

im talking dozens of paes of games now and into the future.. after you sbtract the ralease TBA's and the expansions the list is still the size of a herd of mammoths.

OK, so you think you're the only one who quested in the dwarven area as a human? We each get the same story in EVERY MMO without being able to change it. I can't believe I'm having this argument... You get the same quests as any other person. It doesn't make a difference. You're still that 'one' hero in pretty much any MMORPG.

Not to mention this would create a lot of complications in TOR because the story will focus on your class somewhat, whereas in WoW you only get == class == at the end of a sentence.

damn glitchspot.

SkyWard20

I think that I am the only human that quested in the dwarvern zones? hardly. But it is an example of how I have an acceptable amount of control over my characters fate, while in TOR it seems that I am forced to be a soldier of the Bravo squad if I want to be a trooper, why cant I just be a regular trooper? At the moment, judging by what they have said, all members of a certain class just seem to be different versions of the same character. Same backround, same fate, with only different alignments, gender and appearance. In WoW we all have pretty much the same fate, but everything else is different.

Another problem I have with SWTOR is that they seem to force the story on you, and forces you to take part in it whether you like it or not.

Its not an mmo??pl4yer_f0und

Guild wars is a Competetive Online RPG

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

OK, so you think you're the only one who quested in the dwarven area as a human? We each get the same story in EVERY MMO without being able to change it. I can't believe I'm having this argument... You get the same quests as any other person. It doesn't make a difference. You're still that 'one' hero in pretty much any MMORPG.

Not to mention this would create a lot of complications in TOR because the story will focus on your class somewhat, whereas in WoW you only get == class == at the end of a sentence.

damn glitchspot.

Maroxad

I think that I am the only human that quested in the dwarvern zones? hardly. But it is an example of how I have an acceptable amount of control over my characters fate, while in TOR it seems that I am forced to be a soldier of the Bravo squad if I want to be a trooper, why cant I just be a regular trooper? At the moment, judging by what they have said, all members of a certain class just seem to be different versions of the same character. Same backround, same fate, with only different alignments, gender and appearance. In WoW we all have pretty much the same fate, but everything else is different.

Another problem I have with SWTOR is that they seem to force the story on you, and forces you to take part in it whether you like it or not.

Its not an mmo??pl4yer_f0und

Guild wars is a Competetive Online RPG

Like the newbie zones for the new races in Cataclysm... linear, but good.

For me at least, it sort of ruins the immersion if I decide to quest in another newbie zone other than my preset starting race's area.

what the hell is a competetive online rpg lol??

what the hell is a competetive online rpg lol??

pl4yer_f0und

You kinda get that in RPG's that have, you know, a bit of depth. Don't see how blindly accepting quests and being forced to do them gives you more freedom. To be honest, a story that tries to focus the player down a more narrow path than usual tends to be pretty good, at least.

Like the newbie zones for the new races in Cataclysm... linear, but good.

For me at least, it sort of ruins the immersion if I decide to quest in another newbie zone other than my preset starting race's area.

SkyWard20

I dont recall being forced to do any quests in WoW, unless I was a Worgen, Goblin or Death Knight. One could, if he desired to, go from 1-85 without finishing a single quest. As for questing in TOR,

I like that each quest will be well presented to you with full voice acting and so on.
I also like that you will be able to choose between responces rather than a simple Accept/Decline, HOWEVER I wish that it did not use the conversation from mass effect and instead used one from Dragon Age or Baldurs Gate, in other words the more traditional. It is a step in the right direction, but I wanted a leap, not a step.

I doubt you will convince me about anything, and I wont convince you there is no point in continuing this arguement to be honest. We will just have to agree to disagree on most parts (we do agree on a few parts though, like SWTOR will probably be worth the monthly fee).

what the hell is a competetive online rpg lol??

pl4yer_f0und

A subgenre in the MMORPG genre.

[QUOTE="-Unreal-"]

Guild Wars isn't an MMO.

pl4yer_f0und

the only reason im considering this is because its from kotor, but if it has a monthly fee, im not gonna buy it

the only reason im considering this is because its from kotor, but if it has a monthly fee, im not gonna buy it

pl4yer_f0und

Can I ask why that stupid comment...?

man, that sucks, oh well. Guess ill just hope that theyll drop the fees

pl4yer_f0und

Never gonna happen. It costs too much to maintain an MMO without advertising inside the game. And do you really want to see a Coke ZERO poster plastered to the side of the Death Star?

[QUOTE="pl4yer_f0und"]

man, that sucks, oh well. Guess ill just hope that theyll drop the fees

Johnny_Rock

Never gonna happen. It costs too much to maintain an MMO without advertising inside the game. And do you really want to see a Coke ZERO poster plastered to the side of the Death Star?

No chance I'm buying if it has fees. biggest_loser

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"]No chance I'm buying if it has fees. FelipeInside

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="biggest_loser"]No chance I'm buying if it has fees. biggest_loser

I think the game will be free and that we will get paid if we continue to support bioware having fun creating content for us :)

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="biggest_loser"]No chance I'm buying if it has fees. biggest_loser

But you have to look at it from the developers view. It costsa lot of money to keep servers up to play on.

I think the game will be free and that we will get paid if we continue to support bioware having fun creating content for us :)

Walincas

It's not the fee that I find bothersome (I've paid for MMORPGs before and hopefully I'll find one worth paying for again) the real problem I have is that the game looks like more of the same. From everything I've seen and read The Old Republic seems like more of the same old EQ formula that has become (at least for me) incredibly stale and generic and no amount of voice overs or shiny cut-scenes is going to save what looks like a terribly dated and played out game mechanic.

I really wish somebody would bring back the Pre-holo-grind SWG. I would go back to that game in a heartbeat. I want to play in a virtual sandbox and not the virtual theme-park/quest-grinds modern MMORPGs have become.

This genre really needs to evolve or go extinct. How long will people continue to pay for the same game with a new coat of paint? Actually, I don't think I want to know the answer to that....

It's not the fee that I find bothersome (I've paid for MMORPGs before and hopefully I'll find one worth paying for again) the real problem I have is that the game looks like more of the same. From everything I've seen and read The Old Republic seems like more of the same old EQ formula that has become (at least for me) incredibly stale and generic and no amount of voice overs or shiny cut-scenes is going to save what looks like a terribly dated and played out game mechanic.

I really wish somebody would bring back the Pre-holo-grind SWG. I would go back to that game in a heartbeat. I want to play in a virtual sandbox and not the virtual theme-park/quest-grinds modern MMORPGs have become.

This genre really needs to evolve or go extinct. How long will people continue to pay for the same game with a new coat of paint? Actually, I don't think I want to know the answer to that....

-wildflower-

If something is FUN, people will continue to do it.

If someone likes soccer for example (me), the game is always the same....but I still play it since 15 years ago.

As for your comment: how about an MMO that concentrates on STORY and also it comes from the best RPG developer in the world....?

I would try the game out if it had a $15 a month fee, be even better if it was $12, I would be surprisedif it was as low as $10 a month.

Any higher than $15 a month and I will not even worry about trying it.

I do think this is reasonable, considering I am very interested in this game, and I love Star Wars. (even though this is a massive mmo game)

I would try the game out if it had a $15 a month fee, be even better if it was $12, I would be surprisedif it was as low as $10 a month.

Any higher than $15 a month and I will not even worry about trying it.

I do think this is reasonable, considering I am very interested in this game, and I love Star Wars. (even though this is a massive mmo game)

Lach0121

It will probably be 15$ a month, I mean, if you've seen how big the budget is for this game, you'll need all the money you can get. They hired real musicians to record new soundtracks, now that's dedication to making this game great.

If something is FUN, people will continue to do it.

If someone likes soccer for example (me), the game is always the same....but I still play it since 15 years ago.

As for your comment: how about an MMO that concentrates on STORY and also it comes from the best RPG developer in the world....?

FelipeInside

Comparing a variable sport to a static computer game that has very little variation is not exactly comparing apples to apples. Would you play only soccer at the expense of all other sports and hobbies? Or what if every sport was simply soccer with maybe a tiny little wrinkle here and there but essentially the same game with a different name?

Maybe I'm crazy but I like variety. I don't eat the same food every night. I don't wear the same clothes every day. And I don't like playing basically the same formulaic games for the past 15 years.

Where are the MMORPGs inspired by Ultima Online? Asheron's Call? SWG? Where are the games that are more virtual worlds than games? The ones where you create your character the way you want instead of the way the developer dictates through the use of generic classes and levels?

Is it really too much to ask for some variety? In the generation of McGames I suppose that it is...

P.S. I would also never call Bioware the best RPG developer in the world. If they are then this genre is in a lot worse shape than even I could ever possibly imagine but then again, I don't know, I can imagine quite a bit. :)

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] If something is FUN, people will continue to do it.

If someone likes soccer for example (me), the game is always the same....but I still play it since 15 years ago.

As for your comment: how about an MMO that concentrates on STORY and also it comes from the best RPG developer in the world....?

-wildflower-

Comparing a variable sport to a static computer game that has very little variation is not exactly comparing apples to apples. Would you play only soccer at the expense of all other sports and hobbies? Or what if every sport was simply soccer with maybe a tiny little wrinkle here and there but essentially the same game with a different name?

Maybe I'm crazy but I like variety. I don't eat the same food every night. I don't wear the same clothes every day. And I don't like playing basically the same formulaic games for the past 15 years.

Where are the MMORPGs inspired by Ultima Online? Asheron's Call? SWG? Where are the games that are more virtual worlds than games? The ones where you create your character the way you want instead of the way the developer dictates through the use of generic classes and levels?

Is it really too much to ask for some variety? In the generation of McGames I suppose that it is...

P.S. I would also never call Bioware the best RPG developer in the world. If they are then this genre is in a lot worse shape than even I could ever possibly imagine but then again, I don't know, I can imagine quite a bit. :)

You say you like variety. Me too.

I play sports. I watch movies. I eat different foods. I PLAY DIFFERENT TYPES OF GAMES (RTS, RPG, MMO, Racing, Sport, Action, Adventure, Puzzle, Fighting)

In all the MMOs I've played in the past 5 years, they have all let me create my OWN character, the way I wanted to.... of course you need some sort of base (c.lass, races) to start off from.....

Maybe you have a game inside your mind that hasn't been created yet, but ask yourself first if it would ACTUALLY WORK, before bringing down today's games.

You say BioWare isn't the best....then who is?

I remember back when they were Black Isle (yes yes I know, but some of them are ex black isle), they created MASTERPIECES like Baldurs Gate, IceWind Dale, NeverWinter Nights, Torment, KOTOR, Jade Empire....are all those BAD RPGs? To me BioWare hasn't let me down ONCE yet....so I am willing to give them a go in the MMO World.

Why the hell wouldn't they charge for it? There are many SW fans out there who will likely pay to have their lightsaber wet dreams realized from the comfort of their own home rather than playing dress-up for a day in convention.

If Blizzard can make $$$ out of a niche IP, I'm sure LucasArts and Bioware are confident that their already popular IP can also bring that much $$$.

Star Wars Galaxies didn't have classes or levels and it worked fine. Asheron's Call didn't have them either (well, it had levels but they weren't really important). In skill-based games like SWG (or, more precisely, like SWG was before SONY and LA destroyed it) players could pick and choose skills from every single profession in the game.

To put this in WoW terms (since I'm pretty sure you have played or currently play it) this would be like being able to choose a little bit from one (or all) of the mage lines and mix it with a bit of the warrior and preist lines...etc...Again, you define your character's skills NOT the developer.

SWG also had player run cities which had real stores, cantinas and whatnot. These cities even had elections for mayor. Hell, I leased some of my allotted land (each account had a certain amount of land plots to build stuff on) to a friend so he could start up a mining company because the economy, just like everything else in the game, was 100% player driven.

So, unfortunately, no, these games aren't in my head. I know it's hard to believe but developers (and not that long ago) used to actually take risks instead streamlining their games down to the lowest common denominator.

As for the Bioware question...

I think Obsidian makes better RPGs and they do it with a much smaller budget. CD Projekt RED's The Witcher was a better RPG than anything Bioware has done lately. I think Risen was also better than most newer Bioware games but, in the spirit of full disclosure, other than DA:O I haven't really cared for a Bioware game since BG2 (NWN was okay but the vanilla campaign was typically generic).

So, just saying that The Old Republic is a Bioware game doesn't really fill me with confidence. If anything, considering my feelings about Bioware's recent track record, it actually does quite the opposite.

Star Wars Galaxies didn't have classes or levels and it worked fine. Asheron's Call didn't have them either (well, it had levels but they weren't really important). In skill-based games like SWG (or, more precisely, like SWG was before SONY and LA destroyed it) players could pick and choose skills from every single profession in the game.

To put this in WoW terms (since I'm pretty sure you have played or currently play it) this would be like being able to choose a little bit from one (or all) of the mage lines and mix it with a bit of the warrior and preist lines...etc...Again, you define your character's skills NOT the developer.

SWG also had player run cities which had real stores, cantinas and whatnot. These cities even had elections for mayor. Hell, I leased some of my allotted land (each account had a certain amount of land plots to build stuff on) to a friend so he could start up a mining company because the economy, just like everything else in the game, was 100% player driven.

So, unfortunately, no, these games aren't in my head. I know it's hard to believe but developers (and not that long ago) used to actually take risks instead streamlining their games down to the lowest common denominator.

As for the Bioware question...

I think Obsidian makes better RPGs and they do it with a much smaller budget. CD Projekt RED's The Witcher was a better RPG than anything Bioware has done lately. I think Risen was also better than most newer Bioware games but, in the spirit of full disclosure, other than DA:O I haven't really cared for a Bioware game since BG2 (NWN was okay but the vanilla campaign was typically generic).

So, just saying that The Old Republic is a Bioware game doesn't really fill me with confidence. If anything, considering my feelings about Bioware's recent track record, it actually does quite the opposite.

-wildflower-

[QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

Star Wars Galaxies didn't have classes or levels and it worked fine. Asheron's Call didn't have them either (well, it had levels but they weren't really important). In skill-based games like SWG (or, more precisely, like SWG was before SONY and LA destroyed it) players could pick and choose skills from every single profession in the game.

To put this in WoW terms (since I'm pretty sure you have played or currently play it) this would be like being able to choose a little bit from one (or all) of the mage lines and mix it with a bit of the warrior and preist lines...etc...Again, you define your character's skills NOT the developer.

SWG also had player run cities which had real stores, cantinas and whatnot. These cities even had elections for mayor. Hell, I leased some of my allotted land (each account had a certain amount of land plots to build stuff on) to a friend so he could start up a mining company because the economy, just like everything else in the game, was 100% player driven.

So, unfortunately, no, these games aren't in my head. I know it's hard to believe but developers (and not that long ago) used to actually take risks instead streamlining their games down to the lowest common denominator.

As for the Bioware question...

I think Obsidian makes better RPGs and they do it with a much smaller budget. CD Projekt RED's The Witcher was a better RPG than anything Bioware has done lately. I think Risen was also better than most newer Bioware games but, in the spirit of full disclosure, other than DA:O I haven't really cared for a Bioware game since BG2 (NWN was okay but the vanilla campaign was typically generic).

So, just saying that The Old Republic is a Bioware game doesn't really fill me with confidence. If anything, considering my feelings about Bioware's recent track record, it actually does quite the opposite.

FelipeInside

Just ignore him, already. He rants about how RPG's by big developers have been sucking for years and goes on to put those crappy DnD-imitation, indie RPG's on a pedestal because that's all there's left of the dying niche he craves.

It's not the fee that I find bothersome (I've paid for MMORPGs before and hopefully I'll find one worth paying for again) the real problem I have is that the game looks like more of the same. From everything I've seen and read The Old Republic seems like more of the same old EQ formula that has become (at least for me) incredibly stale and generic and no amount of voice overs or shiny cut-scenes is going to save what looks like a terribly dated and played out game mechanic.

I really wish somebody would bring back the Pre-holo-grind SWG. I would go back to that game in a heartbeat. I want to play in a virtual sandbox and not the virtual theme-park/quest-grinds modern MMORPGs have become.

This genre really needs to evolve or go extinct. How long will people continue to pay for the same game with a new coat of paint? Actually, I don't think I want to know the answer to that....

-wildflower-

Maximum hypocrisy. You don't care about genres evolving. You care about playing 10-year old games and imitations thereof and shun any new features or improvements that have been built upon them.

Wildflower, those Sandbox MMO's you speak of do exist even today: Though they are nowhere near as commercially successful as Themepark MMOs, which is why Bioware takes the Themepark path (and because storytelling is Bioware's biggest strength, otherwise I see nothing positive about them). Bioware are my second least favorite video game developer out there, Zynga are still worse. Darkfall, EvE online, Fallen Earth and Mortal Online are the sandbox mmos that come up in my head with the best being EvE online by far of those.

And Felipeinside, Bioware did not make Planescape torment or Icewind Dale, however they did make baldurs gate and the infinity engine which the previously mentioned games uses. Black Isle->Troika->Obsidian. There are some ex-Black Isle members though which you mentioned. Personally while I see the high production values in Bioware's games, I personally think they are downright horrible, with cliche plots, bad map design, rehashed structure every single time, and forcing you to resort to violence almost through the entire game. They clearly arent my cup of tea.

Wildflower, those Sandbox MMO's you speak of do exist even today: Though they are nowhere near as commercially successful as Themepark MMOs, which is why Bioware takes the Themepark path (and because storytelling is Bioware's biggest strength, otherwise I see nothing positive about them). Bioware are my second least favorite video game developer out there, Zynga are still worse. Darkfall, EvE online, Fallen Earth and Mortal Online are the sandbox mmos that come up in my head with the best being EvE online by far of those.

And Felipeinside, Bioware did not make Planescape torment or Icewind Dale, however they did make baldurs gate and the infinity engine which the previously mentioned games uses. Black Isle->Troika->Obsidian. There are some ex-Black Isle members though which you mentioned. Personally while I see the high production values in Bioware's games, I personally think they are downright horrible, with cliche plots, bad map design, rehashed structure every single time, and forcing you to resort to violence almost through the entire game. They clearly arent my cup of tea.

Maroxad

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

Star Wars Galaxies didn't have classes or levels and it worked fine. Asheron's Call didn't have them either (well, it had levels but they weren't really important). In skill-based games like SWG (or, more precisely, like SWG was before SONY and LA destroyed it) players could pick and choose skills from every single profession in the game.

To put this in WoW terms (since I'm pretty sure you have played or currently play it) this would be like being able to choose a little bit from one (or all) of the mage lines and mix it with a bit of the warrior and preist lines...etc...Again, you define your character's skills NOT the developer.

SWG also had player run cities which had real stores, cantinas and whatnot. These cities even had elections for mayor. Hell, I leased some of my allotted land (each account had a certain amount of land plots to build stuff on) to a friend so he could start up a mining company because the economy, just like everything else in the game, was 100% player driven.

So, unfortunately, no, these games aren't in my head. I know it's hard to believe but developers (and not that long ago) used to actually take risks instead streamlining their games down to the lowest common denominator.

As for the Bioware question...

I think Obsidian makes better RPGs and they do it with a much smaller budget. CD Projekt RED's The Witcher was a better RPG than anything Bioware has done lately. I think Risen was also better than most newer Bioware games but, in the spirit of full disclosure, other than DA:O I haven't really cared for a Bioware game since BG2 (NWN was okay but the vanilla campaign was typically generic).

So, just saying that The Old Republic is a Bioware game doesn't really fill me with confidence. If anything, considering my feelings about Bioware's recent track record, it actually does quite the opposite.

SkyWard20

Just ignore him, already. He rants about how RPG's by big developers have been sucking for years and goes on to put those crappy DnD-imitation, indie RPG's on a pedestal because that's all there's left of the dying niche he craves.

Thanks for the clearing up Maroxad.... I was always a bit confused as to how Black Isle ended up.....some went to Obsidian, some went to BioWare. Still, I think both BioWare and Obsidian make great games (although Obsidian imo aren't as polished), that's why I am giving ToR at LEAST at chance....FelipeInside

Everyone has different tastes, I dont like Bioware a lot but a lot of people do which I can understand. Personally I think both Bioware and Obsidian are very talented, however I am not too happy with some choices Bioware makes, however at the same time I can easily see why people enjoy their games.I am a bit like wildflower, in that I prefer indie RPGs over high budget main stream rpgs, but at the same time I also enjoy some of these high budget mainstream rpgs as well, like Fallout: New Vegas, Modded Oblivion, Knights of the Old Republic (or rather would have enjoyed it if my copy wasnt so buggy). I cant wait for The Old Republic personally, I dont think I will stay there for too long, however it looks like a fun way to spend a month leveling with my friends. A multiplayer Bioware game, I havent played co op on a Bioware game since Neverwinter Nights which was really well made btw (Dragon Age: Origins would have had co op as well but they ended up scrapping that :().

I was slightly incorrect however with the timeline, let me make a more clear one and accurate.

Black Isle is founded 1996. Some key members leave Black Isle and forms Troika in 1998. Black isle goes defunct in 2003, key members form Obsidian the same year. Troika goes out of bussiness 2005, many ex Troika members join Obsidian.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]

The comments in this thread fail on all levels.

The game pushes the MMO genre forward:

1. Branching choices and alignments.

They aren't the first MMO to do this.

2. Alignments not depending on the faction.

Not the first MMO to do this.

3. Classes and faction you begin with determines the backstory you will play through and will decide the areas you quest in. Nothing new in itself, but this BioWare bringing COMPLEX decisions that WILL affect the backstory somehow,

Believe it when I see it.. When I see ridiculous claims like this I see one of two possibilities.. A game that is entirely too small because it tried to make a few paths so detailed that all their resources are put into it.. OR a game thats wide and varied but is like a small piece of butter spread over a big piece of toast.

4. Companions you can interact with, with their own backstory and morals you MAY be able to affect.

5. The companions WILL vary based on your faction/class.

6. Starships unique to your class.

It's the most ambitious game BioWare ever made.

If you don't think that's in the least bit interesting... RPG's are not for you.

................ I think they are fun THEORIES and ideas.. Just like the claims of SPORE did, but the game released wasn't quite what people expected no? I am far more skeptic of this seeing as I am willing to bet this game is going to suffer the Star Wars plague.. In that EVERY ONE will want to be a Sith or Jedi..

SkyWard20

And don't say age of conan.

I didn't exactly say they were the first to do ALL THIS, but they're going to bring those ideas to the next level.

And your theory that most will want to be jedi/sith is like claiming that after every WoW expansion, people will only want to be Blood Elf/Draenei or Worgen/Goblin.

There's simply no evidence to support it.

Ok really? It has nothing to do with race.. It has to do with the fact of the legion of Star Wars fans that this game will bring.. The icons of Star Wars are Jedi and Sith.. Those are the main characters movies, both new and old.. I am certain we are going to see a huge population increase of specifically these characters..

I am skeptical of this game.. It seems to be promising entirely too much by a dev that is untested in this region of gaming.. I take all these promises I see with a grain of salt.. The last MMO I was excited for was Everquest 2.... sSubZerOo