world of warcraft: Addicted

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]This is getting way off course anyways, my only point is that MMO's are not addicting, it's the people who abuse them that have personal problems.eitremn

well if you say that it's the peoples fault for abusing the stuff, then you could say the same thing about heroine.  it was developed to be a painkiller, so it's again the person that abuses the stuff's fault.  like i said before, different people get addicted to different things.  you are failing to realize that.  it has been said not only by me buy by other people that these games are specifically designed to be addictive.  it would be dumb for the companies not to design them that way.  and as far as seeing all the content in the game, end game raids take hours and hours to complete, don't even try to say that they don't.  and as far as your guild go's, such a guild doesn't exist on every server, and even if it did, every person on the server couldn't be in the same guild.  you just don't want to admit that your wrong is all.  and as far as fast travel go's, that's a joke.  mages can merely teleport you to a major city, so at best they cut down the stupidly long travel time in this game.  my point about that was that there is no need for travel time to take so freaking long.  why couldn't they have done something like they did in oblivion where if you've visited a place before you simply click on it on the map to travel there, because they want it to take a long time, that's why.

San Andreas was not re-released due to politcal pressure? Thats just one recent example, want me to list more? "Also any form of addiction for a MMO does not give the government any way to go after it, as you said there ar e plenty of legal thigns out there such as Alochol which can be abused and is." lol Alcohol was never illegal right? Hmmm....why did they illegalize it? Haha. Marijauna and other drugs also used to be legal. Gambling (now considered addictive) is now regulated by the goverment to a tremendous level. THEY ARE REGULATING ONLINE POKER GAMES, which is a form of a game. A big advocate for that was some grass root organizations, and they claimed that it made gambling addiction easier for people to fall into. Point is, there are MANY cases of goverment involvement in MANY types of media and other areas where they get pressured by grass roots and public opinion, and they either illegalize it, or regulate it heavily. This is like the 10th time I have shown you you are just talking out of your arse. Just because the only thing you know is the name "Jack Thompson", doesn't mean have even the slightest idea on all the legislation that goes through becuase of advocate groups. Either get some knowledge, or stop making these empty claims...

i do want you to list more, and also things such as gambling and alcohol should be heavily regulated.  people don't always know what's good for them, even if they think that they do.  or they think that they have the right to do it, or whatever.  but that is another issue, that has nothing to do with wow being addictive.

[QUOTE="eitremn"]

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]This is getting way off course anyways, my only point is that MMO's are not addicting, it's the people who abuse them that have personal problems.dnuggs40

well if you say that it's the peoples fault for abusing the stuff, then you could say the same thing about heroine.  it was developed to be a painkiller, so it's again the person that abuses the stuff's fault.  like i said before, different people get addicted to different things.  you are failing to realize that.  it has been said not only by me buy by other people that these games are specifically designed to be addictive.  it would be dumb for the companies not to design them that way.  and as far as seeing all the content in the game, end game raids take hours and hours to complete, don't even try to say that they don't.  and as far as your guild go's, such a guild doesn't exist on every server, and even if it did, every person on the server couldn't be in the same guild.  you just don't want to admit that your wrong is all.  and as far as fast travel go's, that's a joke.  mages can merely teleport you to a major city, so at best they cut down the stupidly long travel time in this game.  my point about that was that there is no need for travel time to take so freaking long.  why couldn't they have done something like they did in oblivion where if you've visited a place before you simply click on it on the map to travel there, because they want it to take a long time, that's why.

if you use oxycotin for 6 months or whatever else like that then it was your choice to do so.  and therefore you willfully abused it knowing that it was bad for you.  so again, it was the users fault, not the substance.  you are trying to deny the fact that mental addiction is a real thing.

Were not talking about choices, we are talking about wether or not a particular object, game, or anything else is addictive or not. You are claiming the developers purposely created a game that is designed to addict it's players. You are failing to see the difference between something that is addicting (drugs, alcohol, tobacco, ect...) and something that people may or may not abuse.

"if you use oxycotin for 6 months or whatever else like that then it was your choice to do so"

 lol

 Tell that to cancer ward patients, or anybody else who is prescribed them for pain...

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="dnuggs40"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]"Why does the issue bother you this much? " Because the "losers" are giving ammo to all the politions and other people who would love nothing more then to bring this kind of media down thats why. I don't want my hobby destroyed by a bunch of losers who can't control themselves thats why. I am sick and tired of things being the target of these attacks, and not the people themselves. It's all a bunch of baloney, anything and everything that gives a person pleasure in one way another can be abused by people. For god sakes there are MEAT ADDICTS out there, are we supposed to attack the meat industry now? I dont really care if you are offended that I call these people losers, sorry, buts thats the way I see them. They have so SELF CONTROL, they abuse a good thing, and then when they find out what a catastrophey their miserable lives have become, they turn the finger at the stupid game. Go cry me a river lol, I know what the reall issue is here, and it ain't 8gb of pixels sitting on a hard drive!dnuggs40

   With all due respect but how in your right mind do you think politicians are gonna effect the industry?  If they allow things such as the Tobbacco industry which kill untold amounts of people.  How do you think they are gonna stunt freedom of speech as it were.. Infact the best thing they can do is actually enforce the age limits of each game.. And the only person who I see is crying a river here is you on your unfounded fears...

   The only person who has even remotely tried what have you suggested, Mr. Thompson, his case got thrown out of court for being unconstitutional...

It is possible dude, especially since there is alot of "family groups" involved. You do realize that countries (even democratic ones) if there is a large enough outcry, they ban games. I just read a nice article in pc gamer, quite a few countries had banned games. It wouldn't be the first time that something gets banned. Again, you have zero idea what you are talking about... "

"With all due respect but how in your right mind do you think politicians are gonna effect the industry?"

Are you out of your mind? Do you even understand our goverment and how it works? You don't think politicians can put pressure on certain industries if enough people put pressure on them to do so? LOL

Little hint for bud, it's happened MANY times, in many different mediums...

   Clearly the Germany and Australia represent the US so much.. Oh thats right they do not WHAT so ever..   We have yet to ban a single game nor even question a ban..  The only guy who is even trying to get games banned is Thompson, oh and thats right his case WAS THROWN out of court for being unconstitutional..  

  So yes I find your entire point of view irrelevent.. BECAUSE Nothing has happened to this day, we have allowed every game out there to be released.  Infact the closest thing we had was actually fix the ESRB ratting systems and have retailers enforce it.

   So intill we see anything even surmounting as a legitmate issue then your points are based on complete paranoia.  Here people can say what ever the hell they want, Germany.. Not so much..  How in the hell do we consider this similar in any respects when language is already filtered there?  

   So as I said before, as of right now the Court regardless of how many "family groups" are complaining it is still against the Constitution.. Honestly if we had your logic right now I think I would be worried about the country becoming a Theocracy if anything.  So yes with the amount of emotion in your past posts I can easilly surmise that your having a temper tantrum about a issue that is rather non existent.

     Also any form of addiction for a MMO does not give the government any way to go after it, as you said there ar e plenty of legal thigns out there such as Alochol which can be abused and is.  Violence caused by games is another bs myth, infact violence is down in the US among youth sense the past 10 years.

  San Andreas has not been re-released becasue the comapny explicilty BROKE THE LAW and hid content in the game from the ESRB Board.. 

   Alochol was illegal for a short time, and was legalized YET AGAIN because it caused far more problems then having it legalized could.  The fact that drunk drivers kill more then any game could yet we still have it legalized shows that the gaming industry is just fine.. And not just that but Alochol is not covered in our bill of rights, media entertainment IS with freedom of speech.

  Gambling online can cause indentity theft, which is prime reason why the government monitors that stuff.. Not to mention is where HUGE amounts of cash peopel gamble through out the history.. The question is WHY WOULDN'T government regulate a risky high stakes system such as gambling where a person could lose everything in one bet.

  And the reason why I keep saying "Jack Thompson" is because he is the only example in this nation on trying to limit games due to their content.. Other cases sucha s San Adreas was specifically because it went around the rattings so yet again your over simplifying..   And if we some how turn into a communism or facist government games still cover our freedom of speech section of our bill of rights.. Perhaps you should look it up.

I was addicted to DOTA and WOW.  These games mess up your life.  I enjoyed it for a while but you start playing just cos its easy and not cos u enjoy it.

Im studying to be a doctor, and i remember walking into an exam knowing NOTHING cos i'd been playing DOTA all night.  For one patient i perscribed a flask of sapphire water cos i knew nothing else and thought it was funny. 

Games can be cool, but there are better things in life...i quit in an admins game and mocked them senseless, and i got banned from the server...no more DOTA.  WOW was harder, but u just gotta find something better to do. delete it man, in a few months you wont remember why you enjoyed it in the first place.

"San Andreas has not been re-released becasue the comapny explicilty BROKE THE LAW and hid content in the game from the ESRB Board.. " And if there was not a political firestorm do you think that would have ever happened? This has happened many times before, the big factor here was it was sex, that is why they did that. "Alochol was illegal for a short time, and was legalized YET AGAIN because it caused far more problems then having it legalized could. " Still shows that even in this country, things like that can happen, you claim it cannot. "Gambling online can cause indentity theft, which is prime reason why the government monitors that stuff.. Not to mention is where HUGE amounts of cash peopel gamble through out the history.. " Thats one reason, another reason is becuase tons of advocacy groups also pushed becuase they call it a serious addiction and harmful. Another reason is the US gov't was worried about money laundering. Again, the goverment getting involved... "WHY WOULDN'T government regulate a risky high stakes system such as gambling where a person could lose everything in one bet." Why wouldn't the goverment get involved in a risky game that addicts the youth of america and could destroy their social life, ruin school, and make addicts out of them? ;) Thats the mentality right there for ya... "And the reason why I keep saying "Jack Thompson" is because he is the only example in this nation on trying to limit games due to their content.. " That is not true at all. There are tons of politicians, advocacy groups, lobbyists, family groups, and other organizations trying to do so. " And if we some how turn into a communism or facist government games still cover our freedom of speech section of our bill of rights.. " Actually, they are AS WE SPEAK, trying to pass legislation that will remove that protection from games. It may or may not pass, it doesn't mean the threat does not exist. It would not be the first time "protection" trumps free speech. See: Free Speech Zones...I am sure that is not constitutional...yet it DOES exist. Perhaps you should look at all the freedoms we have given up for "protection" and to protect all sorts of things.dnuggs40

   The point still remains with San Andreas buddy, the uproar was they WITH-HELD content from ESRB.. I know I find it rediculous but the main point legally was the fact that they illegally shipped it out with a M rating when it should have got a AO.. And like I said intill the court even accepts anything relating to hindering games, instead of completely throwing them out of court to being unconstitutional to begin with, then you shouldn't worry. 

   Top that the whole speech free zones, is if you don't want to listen to it you can get out of the zone..  The point here is games are completely optional and you do not get it forced in your face..   Its a product plain and simple... 

   No buddy gambling is different because there is alot of crime and scams in there.. Gaming is like any other activity and the government does not regulate it. 

    In the end either side is pure opinion.  But as it stands, the only thing close to game regulation has been completely thrown out of court.. So basically your fearing something that has not even been allowed to be said in court..

I was addicted to DOTA and WOW. These games mess up your life. I enjoyed it for a while but you start playing just cos its easy and not cos u enjoy it.

Im studying to be a doctor, and i remember walking into an exam knowing NOTHING cos i'd been playing DOTA all night. For one patient i perscribed a flask of sapphire water cos i knew nothing else and thought it was funny.

Games can be cool, but there are better things in life...i quit in an admins game and mocked them senseless, and i got banned from the server...no more DOTA. WOW was harder, but u just gotta find something better to do. delete it man, in a few months you wont remember why you enjoyed it in the first place.

 

Alexvanheerden

Well that's right! Blame Blizzard for your mistakes. Hahaha! You're making me laugh man. I mean there is no point on blaming the game when it's as clear as the sun that it's your own fault man! 

[QUOTE="Alexvanheerden"]

I was addicted to DOTA and WOW. These games mess up your life. I enjoyed it for a while but you start playing just cos its easy and not cos u enjoy it.

Im studying to be a doctor, and i remember walking into an exam knowing NOTHING cos i'd been playing DOTA all night. For one patient i perscribed a flask of sapphire water cos i knew nothing else and thought it was funny.

Games can be cool, but there are better things in life...i quit in an admins game and mocked them senseless, and i got banned from the server...no more DOTA. WOW was harder, but u just gotta find something better to do. delete it man, in a few months you wont remember why you enjoyed it in the first place.

 

giankulot

Well that's right! Blame Blizzard for your mistakes. Hahaha! You're making me laugh man. I mean there is no point on blaming the game when it's as clear as the sun that it's your own fault man! 

for god sakes, you could say that about anything that you get addicted to.  not just WoW, so that arguement isn't justified.  why you guys keep denying the fact that mental addiction is just as real as chemical or physical addiction is beyond me.  here is a good article about it:  http://www.mediafamily.org/facts/facts_gameaddiction.shtml

Were not talking about choices, we are talking about wether or not a particular object, game, or anything else is addictive or not. You are claiming the developers purposely created a game that is designed to addict it's players. You are failing to see the difference between something that is addicting (drugs, alcohol, tobacco, ect...) and something that people may or may not abuse.

"if you use oxycotin for 6 months or whatever else like that then it was your choice to do so"

 lol

 Tell that to cancer ward patients, or anybody else who is prescribed them for pain...

dnuggs40

we are talking about choice, because it's your choice wether or not you take drugs long enough to get addicted to them.  cancer patients or any other patient for that matter are warned of any side effects of any drugs that they take before hand.  there is alternatives, they may not work as well, but there are still alternatives.  and it's not like if you use these drugs you are immediately addicted, you get addicted when you abuse the drug.  anyway, i never tried to compare WoW (a mental addiction) to drugs (a chemical or physical addiction) i merely am trying to say that addiction can occur mentally just as well as it can chemically or physically.  your mind is very powerfull, take for instance the person that drinks non-alcoholic beer all night and doesn't know it, yet he still acts and feels completely drunk.  or how about women that start producing symptoms of being pregnant even though they're not pregnant but they think they are?

You are so wrong about San Andreas, and it is obvious you again, don't have a clue to what happened... "but the main point legally was the fact that they illegally shipped it out with a M rating when it should have got a AO" Exactly what was "illegal"? They didn't do ANYTHING illegal. Which LAW did they violate? Sounds like you have zero clue to what happened, and what transpired afterwards. Do a little reading... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Coffee_mod Your point was our free speech is never violated, and there is no reason to ever worry, I have shown you it does get violated. I don't fear it either, I just don't want gaming regulations as it would inevitably do harm to the industry. "But as it stands, the only thing close to game regulation has been completely thrown out of court.. So basically your fearing something that has not even been allowed to be said in court.. " Completely thrown out of court? Again, your lack of knowledge on this subject shows again. There is at LEAST 10 pieces of ACTIVE legislation on the table right now AS WE SPEAK. But go ahead, you seem to just enjoy throwing out completely false things out there like it is fact...dnuggs40

I apoligize for the misinterpretation, I mean violation that lined up for them being sued.. The point of the matter is the whole Hot coffee scandel, was a scandel because they with-held it from ERSB.. If they actually showed them the content and gave it the AO rating then no legal action could be taken against the game.. THAT IS MY POINT. 

   And yes buddy just because they are bills being looked at does not mean they are going to be passed what so ever.. My point is y the one case that wanted to basically eliminate the sales of a game called "Bully" was thrown out of court for being unconstitutional.   This is far more CONCRETE EVIDENCE then any bill that is being looked at possibly, do you have any idea how many bills that are looked at EACH day?

   IN FACT THE ONLY REGULATION that has passed (which makes sense) Is the anti game bill in states.. Now this may seem like a clear violation but its not.. All it does is fine the stores or rental areas who are caught selling M rated games to minors..   So still yet again regardless of what your saying, these bills have yet to pass and all concrete evidence has shown that every try to regulate any form of entertainment in the gaming industry has been flat out put down for being unconstitutional.

   So no matter what you say, the facts still stand..  There has yet to be any serious legislation to be even considered to be passed to serouslly hinder gaming.. Lets face it also people, the gaming industry is becoming a booming business in the US..  With the big 3 auto makers getting their asses kicked by foriegn companies, not to mention other jobs outsourcing, the worse thing we can do is hinder our entertainment industry, which arguably we are the best at.  

  So conclude this is my last post on this waste of space thread.. 

   IMO there is no danger for the government regulating it.. First it abridges our freedom of speech, secondly its beocming a booming industry that the US economy loves to have.. thirdly regardless of the negative effects it has any extreme approach will not do anything to stop those effects..  The war on Drugs clearly proves this.. Lets not forget that a recent statistic found that over 60% of teenagers and young adults play video games..  This is the future voting base, why would senator's mess with a form of entertainment that is so wide spread that could risk their seat or their parties power in the upcoming elections?

   Now I am not saying your wrong Dnugga, because it some how seems that way.. But I do think your over reacting..   Intill some serious legislation is even considered to be passed (whch the courts CAN and most likely would strike it down), don't jump the gun on it.  If anything video game industry is growing with it becoming pop culture not to mention widely accepted in our country today.

   Also on a side note you guys should read this shocking article.   http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,1000000091,2121692,00.htm 

Who is jumping the gun? I said they are giving these people ammo to help in thier fight, is that not a true statement?

"And yes buddy just because they are bills being looked at does not mean they are going to be passed what so ever.. "

Are you an oracle? Do you have powers to see into the future? I am just letting you know whats on the radar. Your main point against any of these bills being passed was that our first admendment right never get violated, I have shown you that they DO in fact get violated on occassion, not to mention there is a bill that STRIPS games of their first admendment protection. You see, this is the way things like this happen, they can't just outright make violations of the 1st, instead they start passing supplemental legislation, after they strip enough protections from whatever it is, THEN they can go in. It's happened many many times. And in some cases (Free Speech Zones), they don't even need supplemental legislation. Why can't you see that? I have shown you already 3 cases...

"Lets not forget that a recent statistic found that over 60% of teenagers and young adults play video games.. This is the future voting base, why would senator's mess with a form of entertainment that is so wide spread that could risk their seat or their parties power in the upcoming elections?"

You are acting like all 60% are fans of the GTA series, or MMO players. Stop throwing garbage statistics out there to make a point. A large part of that statistic plays card games and other family type games. Not to mention, alot of family voters (who are also gamers), might not see the harm in legislation designed to "protect" their kids from addictive games. If you think a major chunk of voting base is based off hardcore video game players you are crazy. The FACT many many politician are including this type of legislation says otherwise. I think they have better statics on their voting base then either you or I...

"So conclude this is my last post on this waste of space thread.. "

Again, you don't like thread, you don't have to post in it. Also, the fact you are writting up tons of posts and long replies shows you really don't consider it a waste...otherwise why all the effort? Was that just for effect?

Edit:

Some statistics releated to game players:

"Of computer and video game purchase in 2005, as reported by the NPD Group, 49% were "E" rated games, 4% were "E10+", 32% were "T" rated games, and 15% were "M" rated games (Entertainment Software Association, 2006). "

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

Were not talking about choices, we are talking about wether or not a particular object, game, or anything else is addictive or not. You are claiming the developers purposely created a game that is designed to addict it's players. You are failing to see the difference between something that is addicting (drugs, alcohol, tobacco, ect...) and something that people may or may not abuse.

"if you use oxycotin for 6 months or whatever else like that then it was your choice to do so"

 lol

 Tell that to cancer ward patients, or anybody else who is prescribed them for pain...

eitremn

we are talking about choice, because it's your choice wether or not you take drugs long enough to get addicted to them.  cancer patients or any other patient for that matter are warned of any side effects of any drugs that they take before hand.  there is alternatives, they may not work as well, but there are still alternatives.  and it's not like if you use these drugs you are immediately addicted, you get addicted when you abuse the drug.  anyway, i never tried to compare WoW (a mental addiction) to drugs (a chemical or physical addiction) i merely am trying to say that addiction can occur mentally just as well as it can chemically or physically.  your mind is very powerfull, take for instance the person that drinks non-alcoholic beer all night and doesn't know it, yet he still acts and feels completely drunk.  or how about women that start producing symptoms of being pregnant even though they're not pregnant but they think they are?

yeah its a perfect noob game!  TIME=skill

lol 8 mil ppl are buying that crap..just cant figure out clicking 1000 times a minute on attack and creeping all month ,yeah questing zzzzz and fight vs other players?they revive easily ,but you see this provens a teory which says that the most simplest and low minded things attract people .. 

Nice tidbit of info on physchological addictions...

"Addiction can theoretically form for any rewarding behavior, and is believed to be strongly associated with the dopaminergic system of the brain's reward system (as in the case of cocaine and amphetamines). Some claim that it is caused as a habitual means to avoid undesired activity, but typically it is only done so to a clinical level in individuals who have emotional, social, or psychological dysfunctions, taking the place of normal positive stimuli not otherwise attained.

It is considered possible to be both psychologically and physically dependent at the same time. Some doctors make little distinction between the two types of addiction, for the result, substance abuse, is the same. However, the cause of the addiction in either case is quite different, as is the type of treatment preferred."

While many doctors agree physchological addiction is a serious problem, few dispute the fact the addiction comes from the person, not whatever is being abused.  That is why you can't say World of Warcraft is addicting.  It's not, some people just can't control themselves.

"take for instance the person that drinks non-alcoholic beer all night and doesn't know it, yet he still acts and feels completely drunk. "

That person is just a fool...

 you know, that is the problem with you, you think that just because it doesn't happen to you that if it happens to someone else they are a fool.  and like i said already, which you seem to keep missing, different people get addicted to different things.  WoW, because it is psychological, will addict some and not others.  drugs will addict everyone because it's chemically based.  there is a difference.  and you are failing to realize that.

Haha...sorry dude, anybody who drinks non-alcoholic beer and pretends to be drunk IS A FOOL!dnuggs40

"I always believed that it's the hand that kills, not the knife." Profound words! I feel the same way (obviously).dnuggs40

 Much like the quote "Guns don't kill people. People kill people". Again it goes back to the point of that people chose to dedicate time to WoW and it is up to them to solve it, not blame it on Blizzard for making an "addicting" game. 

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]"I always believed that it's the hand that kills, not the knife." Profound words! I feel the same way (obviously).the_ChEeSe_mAn2

 Much like the quote "Guns don't kill people. People kill people". Again it goes back to the point of that people chose to dedicate time to WoW and it is up to them to solve it, not blame it on Blizzard for making an "addicting" game. 

No...you are completely backwards. Some people with problems will get addicted to WoW, not becuase WoW is somehow psychologically addicting, but becuase they already have some tendencies or personal problems. Has nothing to do with the game itself, if it wasn't WoW, or another MMO, it would be some other game, show, or whatever they would get addicted to.

"you know, that is the problem with you, you think that just because it doesn't happen to you that if it happens to someone else they are a fool."

Haha...sorry dude, anybody who drinks non-alcoholic beer and pretends to be drunk IS A FOOL!dnuggs40

you are still missing my point, these type of people get easily addicted to WoW because WoW is made to be addictive.  and the person that unknowingly drinks non-alcoholic beer doesn't pretend to be drunk, he really thinks he is drunk.  there again you are skipping past my point that your mind can have powerfull affects over you whether you want it to or not.  another good example is the person that smokes for 20 years, and tries to quit.  they go 1 week without smoking and still they desperately want a cigarrette, not because of the nicotine, but because they're mind tells them that they do.  just like the person that gets addicted to WoW, they're mind tells them that they need to keep playing.

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]No...you are completely backwards. Some people with problems will get addicted to WoW, not becuase WoW is somehow psychologically addicting, but becuase they already have some tendencies or personal problems. Has nothing to do with the game itself, if it wasn't WoW, or another MMO, it would be some other game, show, or whatever they would get addicted to.

"you know, that is the problem with you, you think that just because it doesn't happen to you that if it happens to someone else they are a fool."

Haha...sorry dude, anybody who drinks non-alcoholic beer and pretends to be drunk IS A FOOL!eitremn

you are still missing my point, these type of people get easily addicted to WoW because WoW is made to be addictive.  and the person that unknowingly drinks non-alcoholic beer doesn't pretend to be drunk, he really thinks he is drunk.  there again you are skipping past my point that your mind can have powerfull affects over you whether you want it to or not.  another good example is the person that smokes for 20 years, and tries to quit.  they go 1 week without smoking and still they desperately want a cigarrette, not because of the nicotine, but because they're mind tells them that they do.  just like the person that gets addicted to WoW, they're mind tells them that they need to keep playing.

[QUOTE="the_ChEeSe_mAn2"]

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]"I always believed that it's the hand that kills, not the knife." Profound words! I feel the same way (obviously).ReZa_Yamaha

 Much like the quote "Guns don't kill people. People kill people". Again it goes back to the point of that people chose to dedicate time to WoW and it is up to them to solve it, not blame it on Blizzard for making an "addicting" game. 

Some people take WoW for more than just a computer game :)

Its their place of social interaction, gaming and just spending free time that they have. I simply felt the need to stress the notion

that it is the person who chooses to become absorbed in WoW, not Blizzard. 

I was addicted for about 2 weeks. After that it got boring :|xwolfghost

[QUOTE="eitremn"]

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]No...you are completely backwards. Some people with problems will get addicted to WoW, not becuase WoW is somehow psychologically addicting, but becuase they already have some tendencies or personal problems. Has nothing to do with the game itself, if it wasn't WoW, or another MMO, it would be some other game, show, or whatever they would get addicted to.

"you know, that is the problem with you, you think that just because it doesn't happen to you that if it happens to someone else they are a fool."

Haha...sorry dude, anybody who drinks non-alcoholic beer and pretends to be drunk IS A FOOL!dnuggs40

you are still missing my point, these type of people get easily addicted to WoW because WoW is made to be addictive.  and the person that unknowingly drinks non-alcoholic beer doesn't pretend to be drunk, he really thinks he is drunk.  there again you are skipping past my point that your mind can have powerfull affects over you whether you want it to or not.  another good example is the person that smokes for 20 years, and tries to quit.  they go 1 week without smoking and still they desperately want a cigarrette, not because of the nicotine, but because they're mind tells them that they do.  just like the person that gets addicted to WoW, they're mind tells them that they need to keep playing.

you need to read what i type man.  it takes a week for your body to clean out the nicotine that is flowing through your system, i know this because i use to smoke, for 10 years in fact.  if you had been actually reading what i've been saying rather then skimming through it then you would know that already.  what exactly do weight sets have to do with WoW being addictive?  as far as starcraft and star trek go, no they weren't designed to be addictive because such a thing wasn't thought of back then.  but now that developers see how much money they can make by making there games this way, they damn well are going to make them as addictive as possible.  it takes a special kinda game in order to make people feel that they need to play it, not just any game can get people involved in it the way that these MMO's do, and especially WoW.  and another thing, i am not trying to stress this point because i am addicted to WoW and am trying to blame blizzard for it.  i don't even play that game anymore, nor was i ever addicted to it.  the farthest i got in the game was to 64.  so please don't make assumptions about me.

Again, you need to research what you are claiming. Nicotine (like other addictive substances), actually change the way your brain works on a chemical level. Even though the nicotine is cleaned from your system, the brain's need for is is not. YOU NEED TO ACTUALLY RESEARCH WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, becuase you are comming off as rather clueless...

"what exactly do weight sets have to do with WoW being addictive?"

Becuase people abuse them in the same way they abuse WoW. It's the same kind of mental obsession.

"as far as starcraft and star trek go, no they weren't designed to be addictive because such a thing wasn't thought of back then. but now that developers see how much money they can make by making there games this way, they damn well are going to make them as addictive as possible. "

So people abused them even though they are not addicting? Hmm...you see a patern here? Dude, if you are an adult, your brain is working like a child. Can you not yet see where the obsession and addiction comes from in these cases? IT'S THE SAME EXACT THING WITH WOW (or any other MMO).

This is about pointless...I have shown concrete facts and evidence, you just keep banging the same misconceptions over and over again...

[QUOTE="xwolfghost"]I was addicted for about 2 weeks. After that it got boring :|chandu83

Again, you need to research what you are claiming. Nicotine (like other addictive substances), actually change the way your brain works on a chemical level. Even though the nicotine is cleaned from your system, the brain's need for is is not. YOU NEED TO ACTUALLY RESEARCH WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, becuase you are comming off as rather clueless...

"what exactly do weight sets have to do with WoW being addictive?"

Becuase people abuse them in the same way they abuse WoW. It's the same kind of mental obsession.

"as far as starcraft and star trek go, no they weren't designed to be addictive because such a thing wasn't thought of back then. but now that developers see how much money they can make by making there games this way, they damn well are going to make them as addictive as possible. "

So people abused them even though they are not addicting? Hmm...you see a patern here? Dude, if you are an adult, your brain is working like a child. Can you not yet see where the obsession and addiction comes from in these cases? IT'S THE SAME EXACT THING WITH WOW (or any other MMO).

This is about pointless...I have shown concrete facts and evidence, you just keep banging the same misconceptions over and over again...

dnuggs40

"An important and poorly understood component of the nicotine withdrawal syndrome is craving, an urge for nicotine that has been described as a major obstacle to successful abstinence and may persist for 6 months or longer. While the withdrawal syndrome is related to the pharmacological effects of nicotine, the severity of withdrawal symptoms can also be affected by psychological experiences. For some people, the feel, smell and sight of a cigarette and the ritual of obtaining, handling, lighting and smoking it are all associated with the pleasurable effects of smoking and can make withdrawal or craving worse. While nicotine gum and patches may alleviate the pharmacological aspects of withdrawal, cravings often persist"

http://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/nicotine.html

"While the withdrawal syndrome is related to the pharmacological effects of nicotine, the severity of withdrawal symptoms can also be affected by psychological experiences."

 Key word is ALSO.  Physchological sysmptom are of course part of it, but the CAUSE is the substance.  Also, did you even bother to read the whole article, or did you just "skim" to find anything that "appears" to damage my case?  Do you actually believe that if cigarettes were not ADDICTING, that people would still smoke them like they do?  That is the case you are making.  MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS are addicted to cigarettes, if WoW like cigarrettes was actually addictive, THE SAME KIND OF STATISTIC would exist.  WoW has player base of millions, yet only a few have this problem.  The reason being. like anyhting else, is that people with mental deficiencies are drawn in. 

 I have even shown how PHYSICIANS view this.  They all agree while the SYMPTONS and TREATMENT may be SIMILAR, the CAUSE is very DIFFERENT>

 Excerpts:

 "Nicotine is addictive, which is why most smokers tend to do it regularly."

 "Recent research has shown how nicotine acts on the brain. Nicotine activates the circuitry that regulates feelings of pleasure, the so-called reward pathways. Research has shown that nicotine increases the levels of dopamine (a key brain chemical involved in mediating the desire to consume drugs) in the reward circuits. Nicotine's pharmacokinetic properties have been found to enhance its abuse potential. Cigarette smoking produces a rapid distribution of nicotine to the brain, with drug levels peaking within 10 seconds of inhalation. The acute effects of nicotine dissipate within a few minutes, causing the need to continue repeated intake throughout the day."

 "Using advanced neuroimaging technology, research is beginning to show that nicotine may not be the only psychoactive ingredient in tobacco. Scientists can see the dramatic effect of cigarette smoking on the brain and are finding a marked decrease in the levels of monoamineoxidase (MAO), an enzyme responsible for breaking down dopamine. The change in MAO must be caused by some tobacco smoke ingredient other than nicotine, since nicotine itself does not dramatically alter MAO levels. The decrease in two forms of MAO, A and B, results in higher dopamine levels. The need to sustain the high dopamine levels results in the desire for repeated drug use."

 "Nicotine acts as both a stimulant and a sedative. Immediately after exposure to nicotine, there is a "kick" caused in part by the drug's stimulation of the adrenal glands and resulting discharge of epinephrine (adrenaline"

"his reaction is similar to that seen with other abused drugs-such as cocaine and heroin"

"Repeated exposure to nicotine results in the development of tolerance, the condition in which higher doses of a drug are required to produce the same initial effect. "

"Cessation of nicotine use is followed by a withdrawal period that may last a month or more and includes symptoms that can quickly drive people back to tobacco use. "

  No buddy you misinterpret me..  I did read the entirty of the article, I was merely showing that it just isn't purely chemical addiction that effects a person trying to quit tobbacco.  The person your argueing with isn't saying nicotine or any other drug is purely pyscholoigcal, but it does play a role in it.  

        With that in mind, MMO's do try to be some what "addictive" just in the sense that there is no instant gratification and the user must work for it.. And as you keep going further and further most times that gratification takes longer and harder to get.. WoW for instance.  In the end to get the top line gear you have to spend more and more time playing to get alot of times becomes a minor upgrade.  Lets face it any rational businessmen wants the customer to use their product as long as possible.. why else do you think grinding is in all of these MMO's?  Many people consider this a job more then any actual fun to reach a goal..  What if we took this grinding out completely?  Do you think people would play for longer?  No they most likely wouldn't..

  That being said no one is sayig that its addicting in the sense like a chemical drug..  And its foolish to compare it to that.. But to completelly discard it is ludcrious..  There are no extremes just many shades of grey.   Honestly from what I have read I have seen no one in the recent posts even claim any form of that addiction ot the seriousness of yoru exgerations your constantly talking about.. 

 

  No buddy you misinterpret me..  I did the entirty of the article, I was merely showing that it just isn't purely chemical addiction that effects a person trying to quit tobbacco.

sSubZerOo

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

 

  No buddy you misinterpret me..  I did the entirty of the article, I was merely showing that it just isn't purely chemical addiction that effects a person trying to quit tobbacco.

dnuggs40

    The point that I was making is the fact of the matter is there is no extremes in this, I think on some levels MMO's are ment to be addictive in a sense so the person spends more time then usual other games.  But it is nothing serious and should not be blamed for a person on the personal level.. But even if I think MMO's are not at fault what so ever (which they arn't responsible for a persons choice..) I think its utterly stupid that they are on som levels are designed for people to put be hooked more then the usual game.

    Also you specifically said nothing can have pyschological addiction of any kind..  But the paragraph I quoted from says at the end that users who STILL HAVE the nicotine in their system (from gum or the patch) can still have craving for tobbacco regardless if their chemical addiction physically is being reached through their new form.

Where have I said "nothing can have pyschological addiction of any kind"? I am merely trying to show the difference between the two. I know people get obsessed and display addictive symptoms and withdrawls from behaviors. The distinction I am making is the CAUSE.

I think the major exception you have with what I am saying is when i used the term "loser".  I guess you feel like using that term automatically makes mental addiction seem like it's not a big problem for tons of people.  While I will agree it's a strong term and I did not use it appropriatly, I think I have shown in my later posts that I DO understand the mind's power and what mental addiction is, and also have given credit to it's severity.  But my main point still is the same, which is specifically the CAUSE of these types of addictions.  Which in these cases is the PERSON and their problems, not the object.

And that of course brings me to the essense of this conversation...

When we fail to seperate the CAUSES and address the culprit the appropiate actions based on the causes, we (people in general) tend to go after whats know as a boogey man.  In this case of course, it's WoW. 

listen man, did you actually quit smoking?  i did, and i know what it felt like when i was quitting.  you build up a habbit of it, like say everytime after you eat you have a cigarette, then instantly after you eat your going to crave a cigarette wether your body needs the nicotine or not.  it has more to do with the act of smoking then it does with the nicotine.  if it didn't, then nicotine gum and patches would be completely and absolutely useless because they would continue to keep your nicotine supply up and defeat the whole purpose.  what nicotine gum allows you to do is to fight the need to wanna smoke by supplying your body nicotine and lessening, not eliminating, the need to smoke.  and if it was purely the nicotine, then how would you ever quit smoking by using nictoine gums and such?  my point is exactly that you wouldn't.  i honestly think, and i know that there isn't going to be any research or whatever to back this up, but i honestly think that after someone was hooked on cigarettes and you started giving them cigarettes without any nicotine in them what-so-ever, they would be content and the non-nicotine cigarettes would satisfy there craving.  a good example of this:  i have a cousin who smokes a lot, if you pay attention to when he smokes, he doesn't actually inhale, yet he still feels the need the smoke a cigarette.  cigar smokers that don't inhale get addicted to smoking cigars, why?  because they like the feeling and act of smoking them regardless of the nicotine.  so untill you have actually smoked for 10 years or so and quit, do not assume to know what it is like based of the research of some joe schmoe doctor who's never had a cigarette in his life.  and if you have quit smoking then you should know what it's like.  now back to WoW.  that game as i've stated before and so have others, is specifically designed to keep you playing by giving you certain gratifications, and the more you play the better these gratifications are, thus addicting some users.  i'll say it again, in no way am i trying to say that this is as bad as heroin or other such drugs, i am merely stating that this game, along with other MMO's, can be addictive.eitremn

 "cigar smokers that don't inhale get addicted to smoking cigars, why? because they like the feeling and act of smoking them regardless of the nicotine."

 Again...DO YOUR RESEARCH!!!!  Cigars offer more nicotine then cigarettes even if you dont inhale.  The nicotine is absorbed through mucus membranes in your mouth.

 At this point...it's pretty obvious you have nothing to offer on the subject other then personal opinion and misconceptions...

[QUOTE="eitremn"]listen man, did you actually quit smoking?  i did, and i know what it felt like when i was quitting.  you build up a habbit of it, like say everytime after you eat you have a cigarette, then instantly after you eat your going to crave a cigarette wether your body needs the nicotine or not.  it has more to do with the act of smoking then it does with the nicotine.  if it didn't, then nicotine gum and patches would be completely and absolutely useless because they would continue to keep your nicotine supply up and defeat the whole purpose.  what nicotine gum allows you to do is to fight the need to wanna smoke by supplying your body nicotine and lessening, not eliminating, the need to smoke.  and if it was purely the nicotine, then how would you ever quit smoking by using nictoine gums and such?  my point is exactly that you wouldn't.  i honestly think, and i know that there isn't going to be any research or whatever to back this up, but i honestly think that after someone was hooked on cigarettes and you started giving them cigarettes without any nicotine in them what-so-ever, they would be content and the non-nicotine cigarettes would satisfy there craving.  a good example of this:  i have a cousin who smokes a lot, if you pay attention to when he smokes, he doesn't actually inhale, yet he still feels the need the smoke a cigarette.  cigar smokers that don't inhale get addicted to smoking cigars, why?  because they like the feeling and act of smoking them regardless of the nicotine.  so untill you have actually smoked for 10 years or so and quit, do not assume to know what it is like based of the research of some joe schmoe doctor who's never had a cigarette in his life.  and if you have quit smoking then you should know what it's like.  now back to WoW.  that game as i've stated before and so have others, is specifically designed to keep you playing by giving you certain gratifications, and the more you play the better these gratifications are, thus addicting some users.  i'll say it again, in no way am i trying to say that this is as bad as heroin or other such drugs, i am merely stating that this game, along with other MMO's, can be addictive.dnuggs40

 "cigar smokers that don't inhale get addicted to smoking cigars, why? because they like the feeling and act of smoking them regardless of the nicotine."

 Again...DO YOUR RESEARCH!!!!  Cigars offer more nicotine then cigarettes even if you dont inhale.  The nicotine is absorbed through mucus membranes in your mouth.

 At this point...it's pretty obvious you have nothing to offer on the subject other then personal opinion and misconceptions...

there isn't any research because there is no such thing as a nicotine free cigarette.  but there is nicotine free chew, and people that use that instead of actual chew quit, hmm... funny thing there.  and i'm not going to say this again, i actually smoked, cigars did nothing to curve my craving for a cigarette.  if i wanted a cigarette and someone brought over a big cigar, i could smoke the entire thing and afterwards still want my cigarette.  what i'm telling you is not personal opinion, it's personal experience.  like i said, you get all your information from some joe schmoe doctor that's never had a cigarette in his life, so it's easy for him to say this or that, but until you actually experience it, you don't know.