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I noticed while reading a topic on this board that WoW has begun to cater more to casual players, and this intrigues me as I had stopped playing WoW around the time Ulduar was released as my life began to become more busy. Unfortunately I left behind a very well geared level 80, and I'm interested in beginning to play again.
My question is: Would it be fun to play WoW now as a level 80 who cannot spend too much time on raiding? In other words, is it more casual even for the higher levels?
Oh yeah. WAY casual. You can get tier 10 just by doing heroics. HEROICS. Even though it will take a while. I got full t9 on an alt within a week by just heroics. You can still raid and get gear quicker, but still everyone's gonna be around the same gear level, heroics are not, eventually.
It's good that normal casual players can get better gear and do better quests now....cause not everyone has time to commit to a guild and do hours long raids...Oh yeah. WAY casual. You can get tier 10 just by doing heroics. HEROICS. Even though it will take a while. I got full t9 on an alt within a week by just heroics. You can still raid and get gear quicker, but still everyone's gonna be around the same gear level, heroics are not, eventually.
Rheiken
[QUOTE="Rheiken"]It's good that normal casual players can get better gear and do better quests now....cause not everyone has time to commit to a guild and do hours long raids...True, but there's no reason to raid anymore if you can get the same stuff from easy instances.Oh yeah. WAY casual. You can get tier 10 just by doing heroics. HEROICS. Even though it will take a while. I got full t9 on an alt within a week by just heroics. You can still raid and get gear quicker, but still everyone's gonna be around the same gear level, heroics are not, eventually.
FelipeInside
IMO, WoW has become the kind of game where you need to be able to impress other people to be able to get far in the game.
I'm quitting WoW until patch 4.0 comes along since I need a break. WOTLK has gone stale so fast because of the same formula patch after patch. Grind to 80, do heroics until you have full t9, then right away find a guild and step into ICC. Thatis all you can do right now and it's become redundant and frustrating. I wouldn't say the game is easy. However, level 80 is basically a gearing race. The game has became too much of a "popularity contest" if you will. It's just like middle school. Gotta have the best gear in the game to even fit in and get far. It's boring and I'm tired of it. :/
I play this game to have fun. Not to try and impress other people.
WoW's for people who aren't good enough to play real games. /threadDealge
If by real games you mean a game such as TF2 played semi competitively and successfully as a 200 hour sniper, then I suppose I do play real games. Although I suppose I fail to see how WoW isn't a 'real' game, unless you've set some strange new set of standards for how a tangible object should exist to be considered so. ;)
Diablo 2 and Starcraft are pretty addicting games. I can only imagine the chaos if I had ever chosen to take up wow. I have enough addictions in my life, the last thing I need is to be constantly thinking about a video game...
[QUOTE="Dealge"]WoW's for people who aren't good enough to play real games. /threadMyrkan
If by real games you mean a game such as TF2 played semi competitively and successfully as a 200 hour sniper, then I suppose I do play real games. Although I suppose I fail to see how WoW isn't a 'real' game, unless you've set some strange new set of standards for how a tangible object should exist to be considered so. ;)
I mean games that aren't a grind, such as RTSs and FPSs.as a man from various tastes in game i can safely say wow hasnt become casual in any way.. yes you can now rank up near those who raid but pvp wise you will always blow chunks at arenas and again you wont be raiding much if at all and more importantly you will never be able to invest time into the even more time concuming raids there are now. so.. that being said yes it can be but all that glitters is not gold. in this case it is wow. im claiming this "casual" mmo status as utter BS as you still need to invest alot of time and energy to really get anywhere and experience the true magic of wow.. otherwise its a really tacked on experience now with lengthy and unnecissary gameplay elements and false claims on the box... physics and more graphically demanding my ass. my hd 2400pro still plays it on medium (which is how well it could do it during vanilla WoW and BC) and cpu wise it hasnt become more taxing at all really. i suggest to meybe get more ram if you wanted to play wow.. tis very ram hungry.. kinda reminds me of spore before galactic adventures.. however in that case the junk was still junk.. it just got wrapped up alot nicer.
[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="Rheiken"]It's good that normal casual players can get better gear and do better quests now....cause not everyone has time to commit to a guild and do hours long raids...True, but there's no reason to raid anymore if you can get the same stuff from easy instances. True too...but maybe they can give RAID players different looking gear than Heroics...???Oh yeah. WAY casual. You can get tier 10 just by doing heroics. HEROICS. Even though it will take a while. I got full t9 on an alt within a week by just heroics. You can still raid and get gear quicker, but still everyone's gonna be around the same gear level, heroics are not, eventually.
Rheiken
WoW is casualized compared to before. But you won't be doing Lich King hard mode anytime soon if you only put a few hours/week into the game. But yeah, you'll see most of the content playing as a casual. The days of farming fire res gear are gone...
WoW has always been casual. That's why so many kids and adults play it.
Shad0ki11
Vanilla wasn't casual friendly, at all.
[QUOTE="Myrkan"][QUOTE="Dealge"]WoW's for people who aren't good enough to play real games. /threadDealge
If by real games you mean a game such as TF2 played semi competitively and successfully as a 200 hour sniper, then I suppose I do play real games. Although I suppose I fail to see how WoW isn't a 'real' game, unless you've set some strange new set of standards for how a tangible object should exist to be considered so. ;)
I mean games that aren't a grind, such as RTSs and FPSs. How are those genres any different? I am not quite sure what you mean by grind... If you mean it as the menial task of doing the same thing over and over again to game experience then even RTSs and FPSs have that. It is true that most RTSs and FPSs "grind" does not revolve around performing, or completing, the same quests over and over again to gain experience, but instead most of them just removed the quests and went with what was left. If you removed the quests of WoW it would just be a killing exp grind, just like every FPSs and RTSs. FPSs and RTSs allow for different play styles to peform and achieve the exact same thing over and over again just like WoW does. Every game has some form of grind. Just like repetition (and grind is essentially the same thing) it is up to the user to be able to look past it or not.[QUOTE="Dealge"][QUOTE="Myrkan"]I mean games that aren't a grind, such as RTSs and FPSs. How are those genres any different? I am not quite sure what you mean by grind... If you mean it as the menial task of doing the same thing over and over again to game experience then even RTSs and FPSs have that. It is true that most RTSs and FPSs "grind" does not revolve around performing, or completing, the same quests over and over again to gain experience, but instead most of them just removed the quests and went with what was left. If you removed the quests of WoW it would just be a killing exp grind, just like every FPSs and RTSs. FPSs and RTSs allow for different play styles to peform and achieve the exact same thing over and over again just like WoW does. Every game has some form of grind. Just like repetition (and grind is essentially the same thing) it is up to the user to be able to look past it or not.If by real games you mean a game such as TF2 played semi competitively and successfully as a 200 hour sniper, then I suppose I do play real games. Although I suppose I fail to see how WoW isn't a 'real' game, unless you've set some strange new set of standards for how a tangible object should exist to be considered so. ;)
Agent_Kaliaver
You make a good point. I've never seen or felt WoW as a grind. Leveling was fun, and the expansions were incredible experiences story and gameplay wise. When it got to being at the level cap, running instances and improving my character was fun and rewarding, and my raiding days were simply a blast. I can understand some viewing repetition to build a character as a grind, but I personally do not. It is the same as viewing working on perfecting one's multiplayer shooter skills as a potential grind, and where some may feel this I did not as I practiced mine.
No it hasn't always been, just now a bit more to allow more people to enjoy it...WoW has always been casual. That's why so many kids and adults play it.
Shad0ki11
How are those genres any different? I am not quite sure what you mean by grind... If you mean it as the menial task of doing the same thing over and over again to game experience then even RTSs and FPSs have that. It is true that most RTSs and FPSs "grind" does not revolve around performing, or completing, the same quests over and over again to gain experience, but instead most of them just removed the quests and went with what was left. If you removed the quests of WoW it would just be a killing exp grind, just like every FPSs and RTSs. FPSs and RTSs allow for different play styles to peform and achieve the exact same thing over and over again just like WoW does. Every game has some form of grind. Just like repetition (and grind is essentially the same thing) it is up to the user to be able to look past it or not.[QUOTE="Agent_Kaliaver"][QUOTE="Dealge"] I mean games that aren't a grind, such as RTSs and FPSs.Myrkan
You make a good point. I've never seen or felt WoW as a grind. Leveling was fun, and the expansions were incredible experiences story and gameplay wise. When it got to being at the level cap, running instances and improving my character was fun and rewarding, and my raiding days were simply a blast. I can understand some viewing repetition to build a character as a grind, but I personally do not. It is the same as viewing working on perfecting one's multiplayer shooter skills as a potential grind, and where some may feel this I did not as I practiced mine.
Most people think the quests in WoW are grind cause nobody actually takes the time to READ the STORY... Fair enough, there are hundreds of "kill X amount of that" quests, but some of the storylines are really brilliant...[QUOTE="Myrkan"][QUOTE="Agent_Kaliaver"] How are those genres any different? I am not quite sure what you mean by grind... If you mean it as the menial task of doing the same thing over and over again to game experience then even RTSs and FPSs have that. It is true that most RTSs and FPSs "grind" does not revolve around performing, or completing, the same quests over and over again to gain experience, but instead most of them just removed the quests and went with what was left. If you removed the quests of WoW it would just be a killing exp grind, just like every FPSs and RTSs. FPSs and RTSs allow for different play styles to peform and achieve the exact same thing over and over again just like WoW does. Every game has some form of grind. Just like repetition (and grind is essentially the same thing) it is up to the user to be able to look past it or not. FelipeInside
You make a good point. I've never seen or felt WoW as a grind. Leveling was fun, and the expansions were incredible experiences story and gameplay wise. When it got to being at the level cap, running instances and improving my character was fun and rewarding, and my raiding days were simply a blast. I can understand some viewing repetition to build a character as a grind, but I personally do not. It is the same as viewing working on perfecting one's multiplayer shooter skills as a potential grind, and where some may feel this I did not as I practiced mine.
Most people think the quests in WoW are grind cause nobody actually takes the time to READ the STORY... Fair enough, there are hundreds of "kill X amount of that" quests, but some of the storylines are really brilliant...The zones themselves and the way the questing plays out are brilliant as well. Wrath of the Lich King was truly impressive with this.
Most people think the quests in WoW are grind cause nobody actually takes the time to READ the STORY... Fair enough, there are hundreds of "kill X amount of that" quests, but some of the storylines are really brilliant...[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="Myrkan"]
You make a good point. I've never seen or felt WoW as a grind. Leveling was fun, and the expansions were incredible experiences story and gameplay wise. When it got to being at the level cap, running instances and improving my character was fun and rewarding, and my raiding days were simply a blast. I can understand some viewing repetition to build a character as a grind, but I personally do not. It is the same as viewing working on perfecting one's multiplayer shooter skills as a potential grind, and where some may feel this I did not as I practiced mine.
Myrkan
The zones themselves and the way the questing plays out are brilliant as well. Wrath of the Lich King was truly impressive with this.
True... What has put me OFF WoW unfourtantely are the dated graphics. I'm not a graphics whore, but with level of detail in games like Just Cause 2, I now see WoW as blocky and low quality....[QUOTE="Myrkan"][QUOTE="FelipeInside"] Most people think the quests in WoW are grind cause nobody actually takes the time to READ the STORY... Fair enough, there are hundreds of "kill X amount of that" quests, but some of the storylines are really brilliant...FelipeInside
The zones themselves and the way the questing plays out are brilliant as well. Wrath of the Lich King was truly impressive with this.
True... What has put me OFF WoW unfourtantely are the dated graphics. I'm not a graphics whore, but with level of detail in games like Just Cause 2, I now see WoW as blocky and low quality....Yes, although it has some of the best and most memorable art design and zones I've seen in a game.
Most people think the quests in WoW are grind cause nobody actually takes the time to READ the STORY... Fair enough, there are hundreds of "kill X amount of that" quests, but some of the storylines are really brilliant...[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="Myrkan"]
You make a good point. I've never seen or felt WoW as a grind. Leveling was fun, and the expansions were incredible experiences story and gameplay wise. When it got to being at the level cap, running instances and improving my character was fun and rewarding, and my raiding days were simply a blast. I can understand some viewing repetition to build a character as a grind, but I personally do not. It is the same as viewing working on perfecting one's multiplayer shooter skills as a potential grind, and where some may feel this I did not as I practiced mine.
Myrkan
The zones themselves and the way the questing plays out are brilliant as well. Wrath of the Lich King was truly impressive with this.
as for this whole well fps's and rts's are grinds.. no there not. those two HAVE nothing else to work with, An mmo and rpg's in general are a cascade of options.. wow has about 4 things not counting all the strange things done on arena, raids, and role playing (which isnt actually part of the game i classify it as user created content). that being said, in say.. elder scrolls 4. you can buy a house, join interesting clubs, worship various gods, run around and explore. get drunk to the point where they WILL haul you away. go abouit preforming general debauchery, break the law, steal pillage and wipe out entire cities.
you call it unfair okay.. fable: the lost chapters.. ooh or mount & blade.. oh how about.. zork.. thats right im beating wow up with a TEXT BASED RPG.. thats like second to D&D right there..
wow isnt an mmo or and rpg for that matter its a social networking location with gameplay elements. i can safely classify it next to the games you get with WL messenger and farmville. in fact the only shell that really saves you from the above is that its NOT the only offender. jrpg's are notorious for this problem (though i guss ff11 has safely risen from this grave given recent patch circumstances).
you want real rpg go seek it somewhere else or continue shooting up warcrack... it used to be fun ya know.. playing a warcraft game. now it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
True... What has put me OFF WoW unfourtantely are the dated graphics. I'm not a graphics whore, but with level of detail in games like Just Cause 2, I now see WoW as blocky and low quality....[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="Myrkan"]
The zones themselves and the way the questing plays out are brilliant as well. Wrath of the Lich King was truly impressive with this.
Myrkan
Yes, although it has some of the best and most memorable art design and zones I've seen in a game.
I totally agree....I know the engine is already at it's full capability...but imagine WoW with Crysis graphics !!![QUOTE="Myrkan"]
[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] Most people think the quests in WoW are grind cause nobody actually takes the time to READ the STORY... Fair enough, there are hundreds of "kill X amount of that" quests, but some of the storylines are really brilliant...ionusX
The zones themselves and the way the questing plays out are brilliant as well. Wrath of the Lich King was truly impressive with this.
as for this whole well fps's and rts's are grinds.. no there not. those two HAVE nothing else to work with, An mmo and rpg's in general are a cascade of options.. wow has about 4 things not counting all the strange things done on arena, raids, and role playing (which isnt actually part of the game i classify it as user created content). that being said, in say.. elder scrolls 4. you can buy a house, join interesting clubs, worship various gods, run around and explore. get drunk to the point where they WILL haul you away. go abouit preforming general debauchery, break the law, steal pillage and wipe out entire cities.
you call it unfair okay.. fable: the lost chapters.. ooh or mount & blade.. oh how about.. zork.. thats right im beating wow up with a TEXT BASED RPG.. thats like second to D&D right there..
wow isnt an mmo or and rpg for that matter its a social networking location with gameplay elements. i can safely classify it next to the games you get with WL messenger and farmville. in fact the only shell that really saves you from the above is that its NOT the only offender. jrpg's are notorious for this problem (though i guss ff11 has safely risen from this grave given recent patch circumstances).
you want real rpg go seek it somewhere else or continue shooting up warcrack... it used to be fun ya know.. playing a warcraft game. now it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
WoW is not like farmville or whatever. It's about creating a character and immersing it into another world....and becoming part of that world....incorrect there world is about as immersive as "the cat in the hat" is immersive when compared to say.. idk homer's "the illiad".
your comparing a cat who got gargantuanly fat off correct marketing and the influence of poor/non rpg players and non-gamers in general to an actual bengal tiger after you boil it down the cat is a freak now, and the bengal tiger is awesome.
wow may be big.. there may be alot of ppl playing it but it will NEVER be a good rpg or a great rpg.. it will just be.. okay.
now back in the day it may have been(i joined as bc came out) fun during vanilla with some unique end-game that wasnt completely and readily available at the time. but now its like a really old singer no one likes.. washed up. those who just got hooked and cant let go for some reason or another (this doesnt necissarily mean your addicted*) defend it with cold steel. the day everyone moves on from wow the better. im not talking a game killing it, im talking its fanfair and praise die out. seriously boil down wow for me.. what do you have a long leveling system.. a time consuming crafting system, a lengthy set of raids you need to fully commit yourself too. an elitist pvp/arena system, and socialization and anything before the last one doesnt NEED to be done. what does farmville have socialization and the planting and gowing of crops for the sake of fing doing it. you could sit there and talk and get just as much done but that wouldnt be as fun. same can be said for wow.
when you start and rpg or an mmo you need to be from square one thrown in and taken on a rollercoaster of an experience. in wow its jsut more of what you will experience later with some of the side dishes inaccessible until they fell you need them to progress. you get a 30 second cutscene of unimportance about your characters race and then bam.. a leveling you go.. the first in a long line of time consuming leveling/gathering of stuffs you will be doing throughout the rest of your time in wow.
and the troll above me is straight outta billy goats.. reported!
(*= you can defend a game strongly and believe in it without being addicted. i still think warcraft 2 is epic.. am i addicted heck no ive been away from it for years now).
[QUOTE="Myrkan"][QUOTE="FelipeInside"] True... What has put me OFF WoW unfourtantely are the dated graphics. I'm not a graphics whore, but with level of detail in games like Just Cause 2, I now see WoW as blocky and low quality....FelipeInside
Yes, although it has some of the best and most memorable art design and zones I've seen in a game.
I totally agree....I know the engine is already at it's full capability...but imagine WoW with Crysis graphics !!!It might lose a lot of its feel if they stray too far from the original design. Although I agree that there should be some type of improvement.
WoW has always been casual. I have a magazine from years ago with first impressions of an early WoW build and an interview with the devs. Even then they said they are making WoW as the mmo for everyone, deep but accesible to everyone unlike most mmos at the time.
The only thing blizzard removed from WoW was super heavy time investment and grind. People who are saying the game is too easy only have to blame themselves for using addons like deadly boss mods.
its not that its easy far from it but to play it casually isnt playing an rpg its wasting your time with repetition that gets you little gains over what such game time investments yielded.The only thing blizzard removed from WoW was super heavy time investment and grind. People who are saying the game is too easy only have to blame themselves for using addons like deadly boss mods.
shakmaster13
wow will never be casual. or a good mmo or rpg only "alright"
yes millions of ppl play it. but billions of people breath air.. is it anything spectacular that they do..? didnt think so.
its not that its easy far from it but to play it casually isnt playing an rpg its wasting your time with repetition that gets you little gains over what such game time investments yielded.[QUOTE="shakmaster13"]
The only thing blizzard removed from WoW was super heavy time investment and grind. People who are saying the game is too easy only have to blame themselves for using addons like deadly boss mods.
ionusX
wow will never be casual. or a good mmo or rpg only "alright"
yes millions of ppl play it. but billions of people breath air.. is it anything spectacular that they do..? didnt think so.
Playing ANY games is really wasting your time so I don't see your point. So long as these players enjoy what they play, does it really matter whether or not they are "wasting" their time as how we hardcore gamers "waste" our time playing games that we enjoy with dedication? Forget about "game time investments", casual players don't know it, don't like it, and don't need to know it, so long as they are having fun which is the whole point why they are playing it casually in WoW. You seem imply as if so long as a player gains something at rate over time, his or her time played or "wasted" is justified. That all crumbles once you know those "gains" are nothing more than virtual, fake, non-existent gains.
If a casual player enjoys a game in which there are not much gains throughout his or playtime compared to a hardcore (lol) player who gained a lot of fake things throughout his or her time but didn't have any fun, then the casual player ultimately wins. If both had fun, then they are tied.
WoW is casual and apparently a good MMORPG to most. Your analogy of WoW and breathing air is a horrible one: breathing air is a necessity, everyone must do it regardless whether they like it or not. WoW is NOT a necessity, you don't need it in your life, and you will do fine, even better, without it. Therefore, unlike breathing which nature has bestowed upon us upon birth, WoW has to attract and retain subscribers all on its own and at the mercy of the choice of people. The fact that WoW has managed to do in large numbers is something spectactor.
its not that its easy far from it but to play it casually isnt playing an rpg its wasting your time with repetition that gets you little gains over what such game time investments yielded.[QUOTE="ionusX"]
[QUOTE="shakmaster13"]
The only thing blizzard removed from WoW was super heavy time investment and grind. People who are saying the game is too easy only have to blame themselves for using addons like deadly boss mods.
Bird_Killer
wow will never be casual. or a good mmo or rpg only "alright"
yes millions of ppl play it. but billions of people breath air.. is it anything spectacular that they do..? didnt think so.
Playing ANY games is really wasting your time so I don't see your point. So long as these players enjoy what they play, does it really matter whether or not they are "wasting" their time as how we hardcore gamers "waste" our time playing games that we enjoy with dedication? Forget about "game time investments", casual players don't know it, don't like it, and don't need to know it, so long as they are having fun which is the whole point why they are playing it casually in WoW. You seem imply as if so long as a player gains something at rate over time, his or her time played or "wasted" is justified. That all crumbles once you know those "gains" are nothing more than virtual, fake, non-existent gains.
If a casual player enjoys a game in which there are not much gains throughout his or playtime compared to a hardcore (lol) player who gained a lot of fake things throughout his or her time but didn't have any fun, then the casual player ultimately wins. If both had fun, then they are tied.
WoW is casual and apparently a good MMORPG to most. Your analogy of WoW and breathing air is a horrible one: breathing air is a necessity, everyone must do it regardless whether they like it or not. WoW is NOT a necessity, you don't need it in your life, and you will do fine, even better, without it. Therefore, unlike breathing which nature has bestowed upon us upon birth, WoW has to attract and retain subscribers all on its own and at the mercy of the choice of people. The fact that WoW has managed to do in large numbers is something spectator.
fine my analogy sucks but the scale of the two is why i made it hard to suggest something else without a similar backlash and it needed to be something anyone could relate to not just a select few. very hard to do.
and not every game is a waste of time by my description... to play wow casually means your doing the same 8 dungeons at the end game over and over daily and maybe a pvp match or a wg. really that's about it by a "proper" definition of casual. in a real casual environment mmo you should be able to do ANYTHING the game provides in a short span of time without it seeming like a waste of effort to do not just off a select list.
to call wow casual is a very tough argument to make because it DOESN'T meet this requirement. casual gameplay means you can do anything within a short span of time (for argument sake ill say 1/2 hour to an hour of play time).
guildwars for example or fable: TLC you can do ANYTHING the game provides within that time frame without it being a waste of time and effort in game progression. in wow yes you have game progression but its off a select list and will never be anything more than that list. but there is game progression. which is often why people make the mistake that it is casual.
go ahead do a raid.. say naxx full clear under an hour. post a video.. you wont do it. or do a for the alliance/horde same scenario. you wont or will barely finish it within that time frame and that time must count forming the raid party itself. naxx seem a bit unfair okay (due to it having a couple of weeklies).. how about ToGC 10-man or icc10-man full clear start to finish. anyone who thinks they can either has alot of brass or no brains.
casual play isnt limiting in other games its a "without boundaries i can still do as good" sort of thing. and though you may be able to get that t10 set it will never be as quick as those who raided icc & voa, and it will never be at the same level of play as those people and you will still blow chunks at arena's and pvp in general because you cant log the hours of practice.
but i guess im talking about a perfect world... where mmo's on a popular short list get played casually because of the above.
and as for the above what a developer claims and what a game actually is are often two different things. i think rogue warrior showed us that..
I'm the same, I left when Ulduar was released, I noticed that WoW caters much more towards casual gaming, which in my opinion isn't necessarily a bad thing. They're going to be featuring hard modes of the new raids which will be challenging for the hardcore guilds, but never at the same level of difficulty of which vanilla back when. I wish I played WoW when it was still in it's vanilla stage, I know I missed out on A LOT.
However, I do feel compelled to renew my subscription of WoW and get back into it because of the fact that I need something more casual, I'm becoming more and more busy but now that WoW has become more casual I feel as if I can still manage to be fairly active without feeling like I need to constantly catch up. Personally, I agree with the direction that Blizzard has taken WoW, I believe it's accepting more than ever towards the casual gamer, but still retains it's appeal to the hardcore player, a good balance in my opinion.
I'm the same, I left when Ulduar was released, I noticed that WoW caters much more towards casual gaming, which in my opinion isn't necessarily a bad thing. They're going to be featuring hard modes of the new raids which will be challenging for the hardcore guilds, but never at the same level of difficulty of which vanilla back when. I wish I played WoW when it was still in it's vanilla stage, I know I missed out on A LOT.
However, I do feel compelled to renew my subscription of WoW and get back into it because of the fact that I need something more casual, I'm becoming more and more busy but now that WoW has become more casual I feel as if I can still manage to be fairly active without feeling like I need to constantly catch up. Personally, I agree with the direction that Blizzard has taken WoW, I believe it's accepting more than ever towards the casual gamer, but still retains it's appeal to the hardcore player, a good balance in my opinion.
-Origin-
what is that as your pic.. looks like an eldar @ techsupport ;P
[QUOTE="Bird_Killer"]
[QUOTE="ionusX"]its not that its easy far from it but to play it casually isnt playing an rpg its wasting your time with repetition that gets you little gains over what such game time investments yielded.
wow will never be casual. or a good mmo or rpg only "alright"
yes millions of ppl play it. but billions of people breath air.. is it anything spectacular that they do..? didnt think so.
ionusX
Playing ANY games is really wasting your time so I don't see your point. So long as these players enjoy what they play, does it really matter whether or not they are "wasting" their time as how we hardcore gamers "waste" our time playing games that we enjoy with dedication? Forget about "game time investments", casual players don't know it, don't like it, and don't need to know it, so long as they are having fun which is the whole point why they are playing it casually in WoW. You seem imply as if so long as a player gains something at rate over time, his or her time played or "wasted" is justified. That all crumbles once you know those "gains" are nothing more than virtual, fake, non-existent gains.
If a casual player enjoys a game in which there are not much gains throughout his or playtime compared to a hardcore (lol) player who gained a lot of fake things throughout his or her time but didn't have any fun, then the casual player ultimately wins. If both had fun, then they are tied.
WoW is casual and apparently a good MMORPG to most. Your analogy of WoW and breathing air is a horrible one: breathing air is a necessity, everyone must do it regardless whether they like it or not. WoW is NOT a necessity, you don't need it in your life, and you will do fine, even better, without it. Therefore, unlike breathing which nature has bestowed upon us upon birth, WoW has to attract and retain subscribers all on its own and at the mercy of the choice of people. The fact that WoW has managed to do in large numbers is something spectator.
fine my analogy sucks but the scale of the two is why i made it hard to suggest something else without a similar backlash and it needed to be something anyone could relate to not just a select few. very hard to do.
and not every game is a waste of time by my description... to play wow casually means your doing the same 8 dungeons at the end game over and over daily and maybe a pvp match or a wg. really that's about it by a "proper" definition of casual. in a real casual environment mmo you should be able to do ANYTHING the game provides in a short span of time without it seeming like a waste of effort to do not just off a select list.
to call wow casual is a very tough argument to make because it DOESN'T meet this requirement. casual gameplay means you can do anything within a short span of time (for argument sake ill say 1/2 hour to an hour of play time).
guildwars for example or fable: TLC you can do ANYTHING the game provides within that time frame without it being a waste of time and effort in game progression. in wow yes you have game progression but its off a select list and will never be anything more than that list. but there is game progression. which is often why people make the mistake that it is casual.
go ahead do a raid.. say naxx full clear under an hour. post a video.. you wont do it. or do a for the alliance/horde same scenario. you wont or will barely finish it within that time frame and that time must count forming the raid party itself. naxx seem a bit unfair okay (due to it having a couple of weeklies).. how about ToGC 10-man or icc10-man full clear start to finish. anyone who thinks they can either has alot of brass or no brains.
casual play isnt limiting in other games its a "without boundaries i can still do as good" sort of thing. and though you may be able to get that t10 set it will never be as quick as those who raided icc & voa, and it will never be at the same level of play as those people and you will still blow chunks at arena's and pvp in general because you cant log the hours of practice.
but i guess im talking about a perfect world... where mmo's on a popular short list get played casually because of the above.
and as for the above what a developer claims and what a game actually is are often two different things. i think rogue warrior showed us that..
I honestly don't see the point of this arguement. I don't understand the reasoning for judging how someone spends their time, if you'd rather not play WoW then don't, and ionus, none of your arguements for the idea that WoW is a waste of time and simply isn't fun never have and don't apply to me, but perhaps they do to you, and I can understand that perfectly.
And Bird, I agree completely with what you said, as one could view playing any game as a waste of time so to speak, and all that matters is fun. If someone feels as if what they are playing is a complete grind with minimal gain, then they should stop of course, but WoW has always been fun to me as there was indeed a clear reward for having fun (some may call it work).
Diablo 2 and Starcraft are pretty addicting games. I can only imagine the chaos if I had ever chosen to take up wow. I have enough addictions in my life, the last thing I need is to be constantly thinking about a video game...
funny they're all blizzard games.WOW does seem very casual. I think it would be great if a company made a mmo that took hours to get somewhere. That would seperate the good players from the bad ones.
I was a hardcore radier back at vanilla. (paladin)
Didn't play TBC, I dislike PVP. I admit Arena is cool but it's not for me. The game started to become boring for me at that point. I didn't like the raid instances.
Then came WotLK. Best expansion ever. I loved HC Ulduar. Algalon is the most epic fight I have ever encountered. But this is not all, it's the Death knight class which made it worthwile. The theorycrafting behind the class to find the highest effective DPS at a given boss fight was pure fun to do since it was a new and hard class to play, also the execution of your strategy in the encounter itself and being able to perform top notch DPS every try. The 'casualisation' just took away a few frustrating elements of the game that where hard in a bad way. I quit because I simply don't have the time to put in WoW anymore.
tl:dr; I have been hardcore raiding in Vanilla and WotLK. I loved everything about WotLK hardmodes and the variety of the encounters, as DPS. It's true though that you will have 'similar' gear as random noobs, but only in looks. Gear isn't important anyway it's just a tool. It is a tad easier, but that's because we are much more experienced than in the start of WoW.
You win the thread. I also had a paladin in vanilla doing aq40 and attempting naxx. I think it's about time paladins became OP. They need to stay OP for years to make up for the whole shockadin phase they endured from release to wotlk.I was a hardcore radier back at vanilla. (paladin)
Didn't play TBC, I dislike PVP. I admit Arena is cool but it's not for me. The game started to become boring for me at that point. I didn't like the raid instances.
Then came WotLK. Best expansion ever. I loved HC Ulduar. Algalon is the most epic fight I have ever encountered. But this is not all, it's the Death knight class which made it worthwile. The theorycrafting behind the class to find the highest effective DPS at a given boss fight was pure fun to do since it was a new and hard class to play, also the execution of your strategy in the encounter itself and being able to perform top notch DPS every try. The 'casualisation' just took away a few frustrating elements of the game that where hard in a bad way. I quit because I simply don't have the time to put in WoW anymore.
tl:dr; I have been hardcore raiding in Vanilla and WotLK. I loved everything about WotLK hardmodes and the variety of the encounters, as DPS. It's true though that you will have 'similar' gear as random noobs, but only in looks. Gear isn't important anyway it's just a tool. It is a tad easier, but that's because we are much more experienced than in the start of WoW.
kontejner44
Everyone got off point. As an 80 with my own time constraints, here is how I look at things:
WoW is more friendly now because of the Random Dungeon Finder and the Random Battleground Finder. You can "queue" in each of these finders and be in a dungeon within 10 minutes and in a BG within 10 seconds.
In the dungeons, everyone is well geared so you can run through them in 20-40 minutes and get emblems of heroism and frost as rewards (in exchange for very nice gear).
Battlegrounds, by design are mostly less than 30 minutes in duration and therefore fit a casual gamers lifestyle better. In the battlegrounds they are giving +100% honor and a bonus if you queue using the random battleground. ilvl 264 gear can be had for only ~50,000 honor depending on the piece.
In short, you can assemble groups and play through areas for gear in 30 minute intervals. While some people think this is weak, I (having a life) think it is a great time-to-reward ratio.
Exactly...I understand people who worked hard for gear before get angry about the so called "casualness", but for other people, like me who have full time job, partner, sports etc etc, and can't dedicate a whole 3 hours to do a dungeon, it's nice to see things only hardcore guilds used to see... Another thing one person pointed out which made me move away from WoW was that all gear nearly looks the same..... this is a shame. In LOTRO for example, if you get a specific gear, it looks SPECIFIC. Not blaiming WoW of course, the game is about 6 years old isn't it....Everyone got off point. As an 80 with my own time constraints, here is how I look at things:
WoW is more friendly now because of the Random Dungeon Finder and the Random Battleground Finder. You can "queue" in each of these finders and be in a dungeon within 10 minutes and in a BG within 10 seconds.
In the dungeons, everyone is well geared so you can run through them in 20-40 minutes and get emblems of heroism and frost as rewards (in exchange for very nice gear).
Battlegrounds, by design are mostly less than 30 minutes in duration and therefore fit a casual gamers lifestyle better. In the battlegrounds they are giving +100% honor and a bonus if you queue using the random battleground. ilvl 264 gear can be had for only ~50,000 honor depending on the piece.
In short, you can assemble groups and play through areas for gear in 30 minute intervals. While some people think this is weak, I (having a life) think it is a great time-to-reward ratio.
Dust24311
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