Blu ray outselling HD DVD 9:1 !!!

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joevfx

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#1 joevfx
Member since 2004 • 978 Posts

http://www.n4g.com/industrynews/News-34490.aspx

 and that gap countinues to widen

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mjarantilla

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#2 mjarantilla
Member since 2002 • 15721 Posts

http://www.n4g.com/industrynews/News-34490.aspx

and that gap countinues to widen

joevfx
9 to 2. Or, 4.5 to 1.
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Flame_Blade88

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#3 Flame_Blade88
Member since 2005 • 39348 Posts
Sheesh, well makes sense, Europe now is buying blu-ray.
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2beers_in_hand

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#4 2beers_in_hand
Member since 2007 • 2950 Posts
Yup I already read that, HD DVD officialy has both feet in the grave now its just waiting for Blu-Ray to cover it with dirt.
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jonesy1911

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#5 jonesy1911
Member since 2003 • 3483 Posts
Sheesh, well makes sense, Europe now is buying blu-ray.Flame_Blade88
Yes they can also buy HD-DVD too but they aint i say they i mean we :)
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M_Fresh

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#6 M_Fresh
Member since 2006 • 382 Posts

Good News!

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americahellyeah

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#7 americahellyeah
Member since 2006 • 16548 Posts
HD-DVD already died, it needs only to be buried!, so early in the life cycle too.
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BlacKJaCK2290

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#8 BlacKJaCK2290
Member since 2005 • 1775 Posts
Sheesh, well makes sense, Europe now is buying blu-ray.Flame_Blade88
Actually HD DVD still has a firm lead in the European market, more studios announced support for HD DVD over there.
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risi37

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#9 risi37
Member since 2005 • 4542 Posts
yeah great news
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FlaminUmpalumpa

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#10 FlaminUmpalumpa
Member since 2003 • 264 Posts
thats good news to me, i'm glad that its failing. it was an inferier media in my eyes. i was just hoping that sony wouldn't mess up bluray like they did betamax
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Furbyballistik

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#11 Furbyballistik
Member since 2005 • 2056 Posts
good job sony
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cjnwo4life

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#12 cjnwo4life
Member since 2007 • 1587 Posts

Just so you guys know, sales are not all that great for either format. Follow the link and you will see what I have always known, the hD/blu ray formats are not taking off in the mass market. I was a little surprised at just how low sales actually are.

And don't buy into 9:2 when your sales are nothing to smile about on either side.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Sony/Disc_Sales/Sony_Report_Reveals_First_Look_at_Absolute_Blu-ray_and_HD_DVD_Disc_Sales_Figures/564

Sony Report Reveals First Look at Absolute Blu-ray and HD DVD Disc Sales Figures Mon Apr 09, 2007 at 01:54 AM ET Tags: Disc Sales, Sony (all tags) Thanks to a new research report from Sony, industry watchers are getting their best look yet at hard high-def disc sales numbers from Nielsen VideoScan, including per-title sales figures for high-def discs released on both next-gen formats. Focusing on sales data for the week ending March 18 (the same week that Sony's 'Casino Royale' smashed high-def records by shipping 100,000 units to retail), it should come as no surprise that the VideoScan numbers released by Sony are favorable to the studio, with five of its releases ranking among the top-selling next-gen discs that week.

 The numbers that week were equally as impressive for Blu-ray, which outsold HD DVD by a ratio of 9:2, and dominated the list of top-selling next-gen discs -- the HD DVD edition of 'The Departed' was the only HD DVD disc to appear among the top ten best selling high-def discs. But while abstract ratios and percentages like these have been bandied about for several months now, the Sony report goes one step further, providing the first public release of hard sales figures for HD DVD and Blu-ray discs from Nielsen VideoScan, the home entertainment industry's leading source for competitive sales data.

Among the numbers revealed: as of March 18, VideoScan put the cumulative number of Blu-ray titles sold since the format's inception at 844,000 units, versus HD DVD at 708,600. But perhaps most interesting are the per-title sales numbers for the top ten selling discs across both formats, which are provided both in the form of a weekly tally (again for the week ending March 18), and as year-to-date totals.

While these charts confirm the previously reported strong showings for such A-list titles as 'The Departed' 'Batman Begins' and 'Superman Returns' (with each clocking per-format sales totals since-inception of at least 28,000 units sold), they also demonstrate a very steep drop-off for titles outside of that top rung, with even discs among the top-ten best sellers that week moving fewer than 1000 units apiece: While we should note that the VideoScan numbers are not all-inclusive (for example, they don't include discs sold at Wal-Mart or some online merchants), the lower sales numbers at the bottom end of weekly list and on display elsewhere in the report (where some titles are listed as selling fewer than 200 units since inception) are certainly still a sobering reminder that both formats still have a long way to go in their shared quest to supplant standard-def DVD.

Casino Royale only sold over 28,000 in it's first week. This war hasn't taken off for consumers and we finally have proof. DVD will be around for way too many years to come.

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StrifeZephyr

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#13 StrifeZephyr
Member since 2005 • 315 Posts
Well DVD didn't replace VHS overnight either.
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mjarantilla

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#14 mjarantilla
Member since 2002 • 15721 Posts
Well DVD didn't replace VHS overnight either.StrifeZephyr
Three guesses as to how many DVDs were sold in its first year.
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eclipsed4utoo

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#15 eclipsed4utoo
Member since 2006 • 10578 Posts
Well DVD didn't replace VHS overnight either.StrifeZephyr
exactly. it took DVD 3 years to catch on. And nothing was required for DVD to catch on. For the next-gen formats, an HDTV is required which will slow the adoption rate some. Anybody who tries to say that neither blu-ray or HD-DVD is doing good when compared to DVD should really get their heads examined. that's like saying that the PS3 and 360 aren't doing that well when compared to the PS2.
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Deihmos

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#16 Deihmos
Member since 2007 • 7819 Posts
You got to give it to Sony for making a Gaming Console all about movie playback. They are such geniouses.
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eclipsed4utoo

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#17 eclipsed4utoo
Member since 2006 • 10578 Posts
[QUOTE="StrifeZephyr"]Well DVD didn't replace VHS overnight either.mjarantilla
Three guesses as to how many DVDs were sold in its first year.

50,000....I believe DVD had just over $1 million in revenue in its first year.
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eclipsed4utoo

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#18 eclipsed4utoo
Member since 2006 • 10578 Posts
You got to give it to Sony for making a Gaming Console all about movie playback. They are such geniouses. Deihmos
move along fanboy. don't get mad at Sony just because your beloved console maker would rather screw you into paying $200 for an HD-DVD attachment.....and even going so far to say that if blu-ray wins, they will also sell a blu-ray attachment. Gotta love it when a console maker rushes a console to the market with inferior hardware.
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doogle13

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#19 doogle13
Member since 2007 • 278 Posts
Yeyyyyyy!!! HD-DVD is failing and were getting paid by Sony!
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mjarantilla

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#20 mjarantilla
Member since 2002 • 15721 Posts
[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="StrifeZephyr"]Well DVD didn't replace VHS overnight either.eclipsed4utoo
Three guesses as to how many DVDs were sold in its first year.

50,000....I believe DVD had just over $1 million in revenue in its first year.

Actually, close to 2 million in its first year, with 5 million shipped. Now guess how many DVD titles were available in its first year.
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dstryr13

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#21 dstryr13
Member since 2007 • 6521 Posts

sounds awesome

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dubbleduecer

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#23 dubbleduecer
Member since 2007 • 498 Posts
I think they are genious. They single handedly killed HD-DVD. Without PS3, BluRay wouldnt be where it is. Sony's bold move will make them way more money than they have lost in this process, look at it like Sony's investment that is almost guarenteed now to yield back profits far suceeding their initial losses.
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mikeslemonade

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#24 mikeslemonade
Member since 2006 • 3624 Posts
It doesn't matter if dvd is gonna stay around for a while.  Point is, is that blu-ray is a success and it's gonna help the PS3. 
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dubbleduecer

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#25 dubbleduecer
Member since 2007 • 498 Posts
[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="Deihmos"]You got to give it to Sony for making a Gaming Console all about movie playback. They are such geniouses. mjarantilla
move along fanboy. don't get mad at Sony just because your beloved console maker would rather screw you into paying $200 for an HD-DVD attachment.....and even going so far to say that if blu-ray wins, they will also sell a blu-ray attachment. Gotta love it when a console maker rushes a console to the market with inferior hardware.

The 360 wasn't rushed. :roll: The PS3 was rushed. That's why it's missing firmware for so many of its essential components.

Sony does everything with an intention, not a hope. I belive what is currently happening is happening for a reason and a good reason at that.
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crck

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#26 crck
Member since 2006 • 2559 Posts
[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="Deihmos"]You got to give it to Sony for making a Gaming Console all about movie playback. They are such geniouses. mjarantilla
move along fanboy. don't get mad at Sony just because your beloved console maker would rather screw you into paying $200 for an HD-DVD attachment.....and even going so far to say that if blu-ray wins, they will also sell a blu-ray attachment. Gotta love it when a console maker rushes a console to the market with inferior hardware.

The 360 wasn't rushed. :roll: The PS3 was rushed. That's why it's missing firmware for so many of its essential components.

How can you said it wasnt rushed when I have to put a towel over mine to make it work!!!!  Not to mention the fact that out of my friends that have one.  MS is now batting 4 for 4.  We all got the 3 reds.  The last lone survior died over the weekend and lasted an impressive 15 months.....
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mikeslemonade

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#27 mikeslemonade
Member since 2006 • 3624 Posts

[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="Deihmos"]You got to give it to Sony for making a Gaming Console all about movie playback. They are such geniouses. mjarantilla
move along fanboy. don't get mad at Sony just because your beloved console maker would rather screw you into paying $200 for an HD-DVD attachment.....and even going so far to say that if blu-ray wins, they will also sell a blu-ray attachment. Gotta love it when a console maker rushes a console to the market with inferior hardware.

The 360 wasn't rushed. :roll: The PS3 was rushed. That's why it's missing firmware for so many of its essential components.

That's why all 80% of the launch 360s broke down which is even worst than the PS2. 

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MGSFan27285

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#28 MGSFan27285
Member since 2004 • 850 Posts
hd-dvd is going to be like psp movies soon. hd-dvd are a joke though, no games formatted to them, and bd has better quality by far, my friend watched a bd for the first time after i told him the differances, and he came up to me a couple days later and said "oh my god dude, blu ray movies are soooo awesome! the picture was so clear...i dont wanna use dvds any more..." and i must agree i compred back to bakc the dvd and bd of Saw and it was astounding. now hd-dvds was MS' way of trying to show that we dont need bd....whoes winning now?!
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mikeslemonade

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#29 mikeslemonade
Member since 2006 • 3624 Posts

[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="StrifeZephyr"]Well DVD didn't replace VHS overnight either.mjarantilla
Three guesses as to how many DVDs were sold in its first year.

50,000....I believe DVD had just over $1 million in revenue in its first year.

Actually, close to 2 million in its first year, with 5 million shipped. Now guess how many DVD titles were available in its first year.

Well, once HD-DVD is scaled back, then blu-ray will own the HD market.  Digital distribution is still a ways off, so that's not going to impact blu-ray.  Also you said 2 million dvds were sold in the first year and blu-ray and HD-DVD combine to 1.7 million units sold in it's first year.  If blu-ray was not competing against HD-DVD then 2 million BDs units sold would have been close.  This would have happen is that many people would buy blu-ray with out being scared of the outcome of the format war.  

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cjnwo4life

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#30 cjnwo4life
Member since 2007 • 1587 Posts
Seems like some of us got way off topic speaking of things they have ZERO factual data to support. Please lets keep it on the movie formats please.
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Ngon

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#31 Ngon
Member since 2004 • 2782 Posts
[QUOTE="joevfx"]

http://www.n4g.com/industrynews/News-34490.aspx

and that gap countinues to widen

mjarantilla

9 to 2. Or, 4.5 to 1.

you can't sell half of a bluray movie, thats why it said 9:2

only use 4.5:1 only when comparing something that you can actually break down

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Deihmos

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#32 Deihmos
Member since 2007 • 7819 Posts
[QUOTE="Deihmos"]You got to give it to Sony for making a Gaming Console all about movie playback. They are such geniouses. eclipsed4utoo
move along fanboy. don't get mad at Sony just because your beloved console maker would rather screw you into paying $200 for an HD-DVD attachment.....and even going so far to say that if blu-ray wins, they will also sell a blu-ray attachment. Gotta love it when a console maker rushes a console to the market with inferior hardware.

Screw me into payign for what? I am not interested in Blu Ray or HD DVD and the last DVD I bought was in 1999. Digital contemt is the future for movies not discs.
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mjarantilla

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#33 mjarantilla
Member since 2002 • 15721 Posts

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="StrifeZephyr"]Well DVD didn't replace VHS overnight either.mikeslemonade

Three guesses as to how many DVDs were sold in its first year.

50,000....I believe DVD had just over $1 million in revenue in its first year.

Actually, close to 2 million in its first year, with 5 million shipped. Now guess how many DVD titles were available in its first year.

Well, once HD-DVD is scaled back, then blu-ray will own the HD market. Digital distribution is still a ways off, so that's not going to impact blu-ray. Also you said 2 million dvds were sold in the first year and blu-ray and HD-DVD combine to 1.7 million units sold in it's first year. If blu-ray was not competing against HD-DVD then 2 million BDs units sold would have been close. This would have happen is that many people would buy blu-ray with out being scared of the outcome of the format war.

Combined BD and HD-DVD have about 1.5 million sold in the first year. There were also 900 DVD titles available in its first year, compared to about 300-400 combined for BD and HD-DVD.
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ephoenix6

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#34 ephoenix6
Member since 2004 • 434 Posts
i heard the ratio was 2:1, then 3:,1 but now 9:2!?
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Trigun1

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#35 Trigun1
Member since 2003 • 793 Posts

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="Deihmos"]You got to give it to Sony for making a Gaming Console all about movie playback. They are such geniouses. mikeslemonade

move along fanboy. don't get mad at Sony just because your beloved console maker would rather screw you into paying $200 for an HD-DVD attachment.....and even going so far to say that if blu-ray wins, they will also sell a blu-ray attachment. Gotta love it when a console maker rushes a console to the market with inferior hardware.

The 360 wasn't rushed. :roll: The PS3 was rushed. That's why it's missing firmware for so many of its essential components.

That's why all 80% of the launch 360s broke down which is even worst than the PS2.

Link?
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mjarantilla

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#36 mjarantilla
Member since 2002 • 15721 Posts

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="Deihmos"]You got to give it to Sony for making a Gaming Console all about movie playback. They are such geniouses. mikeslemonade

move along fanboy. don't get mad at Sony just because your beloved console maker would rather screw you into paying $200 for an HD-DVD attachment.....and even going so far to say that if blu-ray wins, they will also sell a blu-ray attachment. Gotta love it when a console maker rushes a console to the market with inferior hardware.

The 360 wasn't rushed. :roll: The PS3 was rushed. That's why it's missing firmware for so many of its essential components.

That's why all 80% of the launch 360s broke down which is even worst than the PS2.

Bad manufacturing, not a rushed design. The design itself is solid and 100% complete. Sony rushed an incomplete console out to top-notch factories. Microsoft skimped on the factories but sent them a complete console.
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skektek

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#37 skektek
Member since 2004 • 6530 Posts

[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="StrifeZephyr"]Well DVD didn't replace VHS overnight either.mjarantilla
Three guesses as to how many DVDs were sold in its first year.

50,000....I believe DVD had just over $1 million in revenue in its first year.

Actually, close to 2 million in its first year, with 5 million shipped. Now guess how many DVD titles were available in its first year.

Ummm no. DVD sold ~400,000 units in the first 12 months. DVD sales didn't surpass VHS sales until 2003, ~6 years after the format's introducion.

 

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ThizzLatino

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#38 ThizzLatino
Member since 2007 • 36 Posts

HD DVD WONT LAST THAT LONG BLUE RAY IS THE WAY TO GO

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rebirthofman

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#39 rebirthofman
Member since 2003 • 629 Posts
[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="Deihmos"]You got to give it to Sony for making a Gaming Console all about movie playback. They are such geniouses. Deihmos
move along fanboy. don't get mad at Sony just because your beloved console maker would rather screw you into paying $200 for an HD-DVD attachment.....and even going so far to say that if blu-ray wins, they will also sell a blu-ray attachment. Gotta love it when a console maker rushes a console to the market with inferior hardware.

Screw me into payign for what? I am not interested in Blu Ray or HD DVD and the last DVD I bought was in 1999. Digital contemt is the future for movies not discs.

Until bobby and jenny sue in bfe get broadband and we have the storage to contain such data it won't be. IMO
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mjarantilla

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#40 mjarantilla
Member since 2002 • 15721 Posts

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="StrifeZephyr"]Well DVD didn't replace VHS overnight either.skektek

Three guesses as to how many DVDs were sold in its first year.

50,000....I believe DVD had just over $1 million in revenue in its first year.

Actually, close to 2 million in its first year, with 5 million shipped. Now guess how many DVD titles were available in its first year.

Ummm no. DVD sold ~400,000 units in the first 12 months. DVD sales didn't surpass VHS sales until 2003, ~6 years after the format's introducion.

You're thinking hardware sales, we're talking disc sales. Thanks for the link, btw. I've been looking for that site.
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earvin98

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#41 earvin98
Member since 2006 • 348 Posts
great news
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jdt532

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#42 jdt532
Member since 2003 • 4236 Posts
[QUOTE="mikeslemonade"]

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="Deihmos"]You got to give it to Sony for making a Gaming Console all about movie playback. They are such geniouses. mjarantilla

move along fanboy. don't get mad at Sony just because your beloved console maker would rather screw you into paying $200 for an HD-DVD attachment.....and even going so far to say that if blu-ray wins, they will also sell a blu-ray attachment. Gotta love it when a console maker rushes a console to the market with inferior hardware.

The 360 wasn't rushed. :roll: The PS3 was rushed. That's why it's missing firmware for so many of its essential components.

That's why all 80% of the launch 360s broke down which is even worst than the PS2.

Bad manufacturing, not a rushed design. The design itself is solid and 100% complete. Sony rushed an incomplete console out to top-notch factories. Microsoft skimped on the factories but sent them a complete console.

 

That's the biggest pile of BS I heard for quite some time.... Manufacturers make the consoles according to the specifications laid out by the console maker. It's Sony's design that made the PS3 a durable sturdy well made console and it's M$'s design that made the 360 one of the least durable devices in electronics history..... 

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Charlie2688

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#43 Charlie2688
Member since 2005 • 1364 Posts

Lets try to understand this PS3 = rushed and 360 = not rushed

so the PS3 is rushed cuz it does not have a good firmwire?

If you are a 360 early adopter you might recall that the dashboard and many of the firmwire features were NOT there and many of the features people brag about were included in updates...much like Sony is doing and what took the 360 a year in updates to achive Sony is doing quite fast, what will happend when Sony catches up?

Why is there a 360 elite? isnt that a sign of a console that is traying to catch up with the competition and its initial realease might have been rushed? 360s bad cooling system is a perfect example of a rushed console along side the fact that the hardware has a tendency to malfuction and give us the lovely ring of death that leads me to think it was not properly tested before a yet againg...rushed launch

In the other hand the PS3 has recived very few complains about crappy hardware that again leads me to belive they actually took their time testing it

and lets not even go into the Blue Ray vs DVD choice to see who was more rushed

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kingrich06

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#44 kingrich06
Member since 2006 • 5403 Posts
no wonder i've seen Best buy drop HD DVD movies in half this week, they trying not to get stuck with all that stock.
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blackace

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#45 blackace
Member since 2002 • 23576 Posts

http://www.n4g.com/industrynews/News-34490.aspx

 and that gap countinues to widen

joevfx

It was 9:2, but it doesn't really matter since the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD movies are only selling about 1500 copies a week. :lol: No one is buying the movies. The sales suck for both formats. I can see movie studios pulling the plug on both format by this time next year if sales number don't increase.

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jdt532

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#46 jdt532
Member since 2003 • 4236 Posts

no wonder i've seen Best buy drop HD DVD movies in half this week, they trying not to get stuck with all that stock.kingrich06

 

And the next step is to drop HD-DVD stock altogether, the end seems near for HD-DVD. 

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blackace

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#47 blackace
Member since 2002 • 23576 Posts

[QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="Deihmos"]You got to give it to Sony for making a Gaming Console all about movie playback. They are such geniouses. mjarantilla
move along fanboy. don't get mad at Sony just because your beloved console maker would rather screw you into paying $200 for an HD-DVD attachment.....and even going so far to say that if blu-ray wins, they will also sell a blu-ray attachment. Gotta love it when a console maker rushes a console to the market with inferior hardware.

The 360 wasn't rushed. :roll: The PS3 was rushed. That's why it's missing firmware for so many of its essential components.

Both systems were actually rushed. M$ was smart not to include HD-DVD in their system. Even though Sony has over 3 million Blu-Ray players in people homes (that's even more then DVD players in it's first year), the actual movies are selling like crap. Many new releases are only selling about 1500 copies a week. Some are selling less then 1000. Even DVD's sold better then that after 6 months. So it's not all good news.

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kingrich06

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#48 kingrich06
Member since 2006 • 5403 Posts
[QUOTE="joevfx"]

http://www.n4g.com/industrynews/News-34490.aspx

 and that gap countinues to widen

blackace

It was 9:2, but it doesn't really matter since the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD movies are only selling about 1500 copies a week. :lol: No one is buying the movies. The sales suck for both formats. I can see movie studios pulling the plug on both format by this time next year if sales number don't increase.

i remember when DVDs were 1st released. Some reason they were always available to rent. It takes time, not eveyone can shell out hundreds of dollars for a player when they see walmart dump DVD players at 20$
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blackace

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#49 blackace
Member since 2002 • 23576 Posts

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="Deihmos"]You got to give it to Sony for making a Gaming Console all about movie playback. They are such geniouses. mikeslemonade

move along fanboy. don't get mad at Sony just because your beloved console maker would rather screw you into paying $200 for an HD-DVD attachment.....and even going so far to say that if blu-ray wins, they will also sell a blu-ray attachment. Gotta love it when a console maker rushes a console to the market with inferior hardware.

The 360 wasn't rushed. :roll: The PS3 was rushed. That's why it's missing firmware for so many of its essential components.

That's why all 80% of the launch 360s broke down which is even worst than the PS2. 

No, not even close. You sound like an angry fanboy. M$ had problems with this Xbox360 because it was rush and M$ isn't a hardware company. Sony rushed out their hardware before all the diode lasers were ready which caused delays. They also rushed their software tools, which were a mess when the PS3 launched. Many Developers had to delay games when for the updates software.

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mikeslemonade

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#50 mikeslemonade
Member since 2006 • 3624 Posts
[QUOTE="mikeslemonade"]

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="eclipsed4utoo"][QUOTE="Deihmos"]You got to give it to Sony for making a Gaming Console all about movie playback. They are such geniouses. blackace

move along fanboy. don't get mad at Sony just because your beloved console maker would rather screw you into paying $200 for an HD-DVD attachment.....and even going so far to say that if blu-ray wins, they will also sell a blu-ray attachment. Gotta love it when a console maker rushes a console to the market with inferior hardware.

The 360 wasn't rushed. :roll: The PS3 was rushed. That's why it's missing firmware for so many of its essential components.

That's why all 80% of the launch 360s broke down which is even worst than the PS2.

No, not even close. You sound like an angry fanboy. M$ had problems with this Xbox360 because it was rush and M$ isn't a hardware company. Sony rushed out their hardware before all the diode lasers were ready which caused delays. They also rushed their software tools, which were a mess when the PS3 launched. Many Developers had to delay games when for the updates software.

And you would know that those 360s won't continue to break down?  Obviously it wasn't the problem because the PS3 is in good supply everywhere right now.  I rather have a delayed system then have a system that breaks down right after the warranty. You're so conservative for saying that HD-DVD and Blu-ray will be entirely dropped.  You're not even advocate of technology for saying that.