Do you think innovation is slowly dying?

Maybe you're looking for a wii? But I'm sure there are a few very innovative games coming out for the PS3. Sorry I can't name a few, I'm really tired.shaza91

We have the Wii. :)

No, this gen for example has a new innovative that is becoming standard: Motion Controls. I think every gen gets "something" that changed how future consoles are put together, not to mention the fact that many original games have come and are coming out this gen, for example: Folklore (name a game like it?), and an example of a very original looking game that is due soon: Valkyrie Of The Battlefield. I don't think innovation has died in the least, I just thing we're so early in the gen, that we're getting impatient.Andrew_Xavier

Thank you for your input.:)

Is innovation dying? How so? GTA IV and MGS4 look like some of the most innovative games in quite a while. GTA has it so if you hear a song you like in the game, you can buy it with almost no issues. They're also using the Euphoria engine, one of the greatest advancements in gaming in the last five years IMO. MGS4 is using the SIXAXIS for multiple things, and features some of the most customization i've seen in a game, as far as HUD's go. And i don't see how people call the Wii innovative, IMO almost all the Wii games use the Motion sensing as either a gimmick or like a light gun. I can't fault Nintendo tho, the SIXAXIS is also kinda gimmicky.marnett2005

Not a GTA fan, but I loveth how MGS4 is turning out.

The concept of innovation will never die, just that no one does it anymore.

What I see thats going on, is that the term innovation is something what most people in this industry now feels only the small devs needs to bring to the table in order to get their recognition, while the big devs think they should just worry about getting all the money they can get with their franchises before their time passes. But then the problem is the small devs are too small to either get the ideas out or getting the ideas to materialize.

And I totally agree that theres less innovation nowadays. Except for probably bioshock and portal, I think there hasn't even been a game that brought anything completely fresh and original into this industry for at least over a year now. If I make a standpoint at being a non-fanboy, I will get some pretty bad comments in return from both ps3 and 360 owners. Not a single lately, nor for a while will we see anything at all that will be innovative, and that includes the Halo, Mass Effect, Forza, call of duty 4, haze, MGS4, GT5, even GTA4. None of the titles, even the best stuff in the industry, I dare say, are innovative at its core.

Yes.

Just have high expectactions for sequels (meaning titles that previously came out in the previous generation) and you'll be fine.

Innovation is not dying, but I am getting tired of the shooter genre.longlivecesar

You have ICO for an avatar! Awesome! Too many PS3/PS2 owners don't know that game. :(

[QUOTE="longlivecesar"]Innovation is not dying, but I am getting tired of the shooter genre.Symphonycometh

You have ICO for an avatar! Awesome! Too many PS3/PS2 owners don't know that game. :(

Yeah ICO is a relatively easy game, but it's great from beginning to end

The concept of innovation will never die, just that no one does it anymore.

What I see thats going on, is that the term innovation is something what most people in this industry now feels only the small devs needs to bring to the table in order to get their recognition, while the big devs think they should just worry about getting all the money they can get with their franchises before their time passes. But then the problem is the small devs are too small to either get the ideas out or getting the ideas to materialize.

And I totally agree that theres less innovation nowadays. Except for probably bioshock and portal, I think there hasn't even been a game that brought anything completely fresh and original into this industry for at least over a year now. If I make a standpoint at being a non-fanboy, I will get some pretty bad comments in return from both ps3 and 360 owners. Not a single lately, nor for a while will we see anything at all that will be innovative, and that includes the Halo, Mass Effect, Forza, call of duty 4, haze, MGS4, GT5, even GTA4. None of the titles, even the best stuff in the industry, I dare say, are innovative at its core.

PSdual_wielder

you do realize that GTA IV uses euphora right??? What does this do you ask, well it makes animation MUCH more realistic. When a character falls down an incline they will actually grab for an object as to not fall to their doom. IF an enemy falls down a staircase you can get a completely different animation the 2nd time around. Not only does this have to do with animation but also AI, as they will not behave similarly each time. If that is not innovative then I'd like to know your definition of innnovative.

[QUOTE="PSdual_wielder"]

The concept of innovation will never die, just that no one does it anymore.

What I see thats going on, is that the term innovation is something what most people in this industry now feels only the small devs needs to bring to the table in order to get their recognition, while the big devs think they should just worry about getting all the money they can get with their franchises before their time passes. But then the problem is the small devs are too small to either get the ideas out or getting the ideas to materialize.

And I totally agree that theres less innovation nowadays. Except for probably bioshock and portal, I think there hasn't even been a game that brought anything completely fresh and original into this industry for at least over a year now. If I make a standpoint at being a non-fanboy, I will get some pretty bad comments in return from both ps3 and 360 owners. Not a single lately, nor for a while will we see anything at all that will be innovative, and that includes the Halo, Mass Effect, Forza, call of duty 4, haze, MGS4, GT5, even GTA4. None of the titles, even the best stuff in the industry, I dare say, are innovative at its core.

firebreathing

you do realize that GTA IV uses euphora right??? What does this do you ask, well it makes animation MUCH more realistic. When a character falls down an incline they will actually grab for an object as to not fall to their doom. IF an enemy falls down a staircase you can get a completely different animation the 2nd time around. Not only does this have to do with animation but also AI, as they will not behave similarly each time. If that is not innovative then I'd like to know your definition of innnovative.

The innovation I'm talking about is that which is new game mechanics, new ways of presenting a storyline, etc. For example, Burnout 3 introduced a Takedown system that allows you to screw over you opponents by rear-ending them. RE4 had a behind-shoulder camera view that basically added a new way to play shooting games. Gears of War had a cover system not seen in any game before it. Those are innovations. What you're talking about is a game engine, a technological advancement, and that is not innovation, its just a step up, like the ones where nvidia releases new cards every year. Those are advancments, not innovation.

[QUOTE="longlivecesar"]Innovation is not dying, but I am getting tired of the shooter genre.Symphonycometh

You have ICO for an avatar! Awesome! Too many PS3/PS2 owners don't know that game. :(

To topic:

I think the biggest problem against the innovation in game design is the raising in development cost. When games cost 10-20 millions to make, no publishers would be willing to spend that amout of cash to "try" out an idea. Someone did an article not long ago about the difficulty of trying to pitch your game to major publishers before they are willing to support you. That, to me, is the innovation killer #1.

To follow up with that, the demography of the next-gen users may be another key point that people may have over looked. Most of us that bought PS3/360 expect something when we dished out 300+ for a gaming console, graphics. Certainly, the selections we have now are not short of eye candy throwers, yet all this graphic just means that the studios have to hire more artists to create loads of high-rez models/textures/maps so we won't sit there and start complaining about seeing the same face/place over and over. Granted, this makes the gaming world a lot more vivid, but at the same time it also means that game would be sufficitly smaller than what we had in PS2 until somebody come up with a smart way to streamline the process. This new hunger to graphic also leads to one obvious side effect we are all seeing right now: the overflowing of FPS and action genres.

... I am going to end this before I turn this into a wall of text. I don't think the innovation is dead, but due to the cost of the games now, they are appearing in other places (checked DS line-up lately?). If you had not done so yet, try to go to site like IGF (http://www.igf.com/, Jayisgames (http://jayisgames.com/) where indie developers and indivisuals shines with some of the coolest game design ideas. Pixel Monsters, for example, was just a graphic update of what's called tower defense games.

The innovation I'm talking about is that which is new game mechanics, new ways of presenting a storyline, etc. For example, Burnout 3 introduced a Takedown system that allows you to screw over you opponents by rear-ending them. RE4 had a behind-shoulder camera view that basically added a new way to play shooting games. Gears of War had a cover system not seen in any game before it. Those are innovations. What you're talking about is a game engine, a technological advancement, and that is not innovation, its just a step up, like the ones where nvidia releases new cards every year. Those are advancments, not innovation.

PSdual_wielder

Agreed, although I wouldn't even call RE4 and Gears of War innovation (over the shoulder perspetive had already been done over and over, it's just the first time that a survival horror game uses it making it more action oriented. Gears of War.... first time I played it I was reminded with Brother in Arms with aliens). About the only innovation I can think of is Portal, which you mentioned, and maybe LBP when it comes out. BTW, wii's control is decent, but it isn't so impressive when you think that the only company that can take advantage of it is Nintendo iteslf.

no ....it seems like it tho... but it cant...theres always someone out there (SONY) that takes chances with technology ...sony took a huge chance with blue ray and look at it now...ms is wanting to put it in there system ....sony is innovation ....true innovation ..and no SONY WILL NEVER EVER DIE...brettski01

You comment contradicts itself. You saying Sony it innovative because is risked a new playback format. Then doesn't that mean that the other companies like Toshiba are innovative too because they as well develop a new playback format? BD is not innovative, its not a new idea, its an upgrade from an existing idea with a weird name, nothing more nothing less. Oh, and your little comment about MS wanting to put a Blueray drive in their system, yeah they have denied that--4 times already. Stop, trying to anger other user with you not-so-knowledgeable comments.

For a topic on innovation, I sure got more hits than I thought I would.Symphonycometh

Innovation is an extremely discussable topic(if discussable is even a word, lol). This was a welcome topic for the PS3 forum, although it might have fit better in the general gaming discussion forum. Either way its fun to talk about and encourages intelligent debates. Kudos Symphony!!!!

[QUOTE="Symphonycometh"]For a topic on innovation, I sure got more hits than I thought I would.KH-mixerX

Innovation is an extremely discussable topic(if discussable is even a word, lol). This was a welcome topic for the PS3 forum, although it might have fit better in the general gaming discussion forum. Either way its fun to talk about and encourages intelligent debates. Kudos Symphony!!!!

It has something to do with the game library we have now. All the big releases are just graphic update of sequels, and I am sure most people already complained about how many FPS is out there right now. It almost seems like none of the big companies are willing to take risk with the new release titles on this gen yet. Wii's probably an excption. But they are suffering a very bad case of "Nintendo only" with third party developers having better luck on PS360... Situation might improve once all this new development cycle are set in stone and big publishers are more willing to take rish for newer ideals and IPs. While I think this topic has more to do with the release of titles across all platform, considering the numeouse aquisition and merges, it's much more qualifiy than GTA this, MGS that, or Haze and CoD4 till kingdom comes.

Innovation always loses out to mass market appeal. If you want easy money these days develop a shooter with lots of blood. As long as they console makes keep allowing us to download indy games over the various networks though innovation will never die, the question just becomes though will enough people buy these games?CellAnimation

well i'm not buying a game that has none of innovative, i'm already tired of the same game on ps2 allready if i want outdated gam,eplay i play on my last gen console, i bought ps3 for atleast 60 frame per second and better AI and upgraded gameplay, all those graphic's a startting to annoys me, the more they focus on graphic's the more downgraded the gameplay will be and its even horrible than last gen, same game from last gen means no money for them, i though ps2 graphic's was allready good enough.

[QUOTE="Symphonycometh"]For a topic on innovation, I sure got more hits than I thought I would.KH-mixerX

Innovation is an extremely discussable topic(if discussable is even a word, lol). This was a welcome topic for the PS3 forum, although it might have fit better in the general gaming discussion forum. Either way its fun to talk about and encourages intelligent debates. Kudos Symphony!!!!

Thanks. Though besides you, I don't recognize just about any of these Gamespot members. lol

I must've done something right to get the rare ones. :P

Not slowly dying, just slow. IMO it takes time to do something creative these days, because so much as been invented already.

We shall not pity Ze "dying" but pray for is return.

[QUOTE="KH-mixerX"]

[QUOTE="Symphonycometh"]For a topic on innovation, I sure got more hits than I thought I would.Symphonycometh

Innovation is an extremely discussable topic(if discussable is even a word, lol). This was a welcome topic for the PS3 forum, although it might have fit better in the general gaming discussion forum. Either way its fun to talk about and encourages intelligent debates. Kudos Symphony!!!!

Thanks. Though besides you, I don't recognize just about any of these Gamespot members. lol

I must've done something right to get the rare ones. :P

Lol is zeforgotten triggering sentimentalism in all the old timers now?

Yes and no. It's impossible for every game to be an original and with todays big budgets it's harder for developers to go out on a limb with something truly innovative. Instead of a game that's innovative in every aspect we have games that follow a formula for success and might throw in a new game-play mechanic for good measure. The FPS genre is notorious for this. Timecrisis while nothing more than a run of the mill FPS did attempt to throw in the whole time manipulation thing and COD4s online MP perks were a nice added touch as well. So on the game-play side of things innovation can be slow. There are exceptions of course. Flow is one example that pops into my head.

On the other hand innovation is everywhere when it comes to the technical aspects of games. Lighting textures and animations have all improved this gen and will continue to do so.

Story-lines might not be any better or worse but developers have to be creative in how they present the story or how it unfolds and this gen has some shining examples already. Uncharted comes to mind with it's cinematic feel and Portal deserves a mention for letting you piece together the story via visual and audible clues.

Innovation isn't slowly dying it's just slowing down.

Hey symphonycome why do you have your profile set on private, i mean to ask you about this a long time ago?Ownsin

Gamespot glitch. It's set to be open...Gamespot just doesn't like my profile. -_-

[QUOTE="Symphonycometh"][QUOTE="KH-mixerX"]

[QUOTE="Symphonycometh"]For a topic on innovation, I sure got more hits than I thought I would.solaris1979

Innovation is an extremely discussable topic(if discussable is even a word, lol). This was a welcome topic for the PS3 forum, although it might have fit better in the general gaming discussion forum. Either way its fun to talk about and encourages intelligent debates. Kudos Symphony!!!!

Thanks. Though besides you, I don't recognize just about any of these Gamespot members. lol

I must've done something right to get the rare ones. :P

Lol is zeforgotten triggering sentimentalism in all the old timers now?

lol. You know of the man?:P

Yes and no. It's impossible for every game to be an original and with todays big budgets it's harder for developers to go out on a limb with something truly innovative. Instead of a game that's innovative in every aspect we have games that follow a formula for success and might throw in a new game-play mechanic for good measure. The FPS genre is notorious for this. Timecrisis while nothing more than a run of the mill FPS did attempt to throw in the whole time manipulation thing and COD4s online MP perks were a nice added touch as well. So on the game-play side of things innovation can be slow. There are exceptions of course. Flow is one example that pops into my head.

On the other hand innovation is everywhere when it comes to the technical aspects of games. Lighting textures and animations have all improved this gen and will continue to do so.

Story-lines might not be any better or worse but developers have to be creative in how they present the story or how it unfolds and this gen has some shining examples already. Uncharted comes to mind with it's cinematic feel and Portal deserves a mention for letting you piece together the story via visual and audible clues.

Innovation isn't slowly dying it's just slowing down.

donnygorgas

I actually like this point a lot.

[QUOTE="donnygorgas"]

Yes and no. It's impossible for every game to be an original and with todays big budgets it's harder for developers to go out on a limb with something truly innovative. Instead of a game that's innovative in every aspect we have games that follow a formula for success and might throw in a new game-play mechanic for good measure. The FPS genre is notorious for this. Timecrisis while nothing more than a run of the mill FPS did attempt to throw in the whole time manipulation thing and COD4s online MP perks were a nice added touch as well. So on the game-play side of things innovation can be slow. There are exceptions of course. Flow is one example that pops into my head.

On the other hand innovation is everywhere when it comes to the technical aspects of games. Lighting textures and animations have all improved this gen and will continue to do so.

Story-lines might not be any better or worse but developers have to be creative in how they present the story or how it unfolds and this gen has some shining examples already. Uncharted comes to mind with it's cinematic feel and Portal deserves a mention for letting you piece together the story via visual and audible clues.

Innovation isn't slowly dying it's just slowing down.

Symphonycometh

I actually like this point a lot.

Thanks and props for posting the topic.

No problem. I try to be original with my topics....

they die often here on Gamespot. :(

No problem. I try to be original with my topics....

they die often here on Gamespot. :(

Symphonycometh

"Gamespot: Where originality gets Banned"

[QUOTE="Symphonycometh"]

No problem. I try to be original with my topics....

they die often here on Gamespot. :(

kenshinhimura16

"Gamespot: Where originality gets Banned"

Sigged.

I don't think that innovation in games is dieing out at all. Such a great entertaining console for the whole family as Wii proves that point very well.

Different systems will always produce few different games here and there, alas not as much as in the past. But that's not really a bad thing. Right now technology is prime priority in our culture, innovation is something that will come with time. I do find Folklore very enjoyable and different for example.

I usually like to stick to good old formula of games. Keep in mind that, innovative - doesn't always mean successful. There are hundreds of bad implementations out there that don't work.

If there is one innovation this year on PS3 that I would pre-order right away if it was available that would be - Little Big Planet.

Games like that define the definition of fun and good time. :)

I don't think that innovation in games is dieing out at all. Such a great entertaining console for the whole family as Wii proves that point very well.

Different systems will always produce few different games here and there, alas not as much as in the past. But that's not really a bad thing. Right now technology is prime priority in our culture, innovation is something that will come with time. I do find Folklore very enjoyable and different for example.

I usually like to stick to good old formula of games. Keep in mind that, innovative - doesn't always mean successful. There are hundreds of bad implementations out there that don't work.

If there is one innovation this year on PS3 that I would pre-order right away if it was available that would be - Little Big Planet.

Games like that define the definition of fun and good time. :)

Sokol4ever

I still think that we have to stop looking innovation from the "gameplay" perspective.

Innovation comes from many places, graphics, photograpy, music, story. I think that those areas count in and are as important as gameplay. Well, maybe music wont be innovative, but it does have the power to make a game good or bad.

In my opinion, story is far more important. And stories can be innovative, specialy since in games, you actually are part of it. Mostly in the ones that you have choices, since what you do may change the outcome of things.

Graphics can also be innovative. Im not starting a war, but I firmly believe that Crysis got its score due to the awesome Physic and graphic engine it has, and not because of its standard gameplay thats most of the time not impressive.

the photography, games like Shadow of the Colossus, VP 2, Radiata Story, Assassins Creed have all a wonderful art direction that makes them really amazing to look at.

Now, I will get bashed mostly cause people think that either gameplay is all that matters cause they are games or because I criticized Crysis, but well, you guys are welcome, after all, people cant see games as something more than that, and most of the times dont care about the work that they have behind. Kinda like watching The Lord of the Rings and not being amazed by the beauty of the places and the music or the charisma of the story (which by the way, is much much worser than the book after the first movie; shame on the guionist:( )

[QUOTE="Sokol4ever"]

I don't think that innovation in games is dieing out at all. Such a great entertaining console for the whole family as Wii proves that point very well.

Different systems will always produce few different games here and there, alas not as much as in the past. But that's not really a bad thing. Right now technology is prime priority in our culture, innovation is something that will come with time. I do find Folklore very enjoyable and different for example.

I usually like to stick to good old formula of games. Keep in mind that, innovative - doesn't always mean successful. There are hundreds of bad implementations out there that don't work.

If there is one innovation this year on PS3 that I would pre-order right away if it was available that would be - Little Big Planet.

Games like that define the definition of fun and good time. :)

kenshinhimura16

I still think that we have to stop looking innovation from the "gameplay" perspective.

Innovation comes from many places, graphics, photograpy, music, story. I think that those areas count in and are as important as gameplay. Well, maybe music wont be innovative, but it does have the power to make a game good or bad.

In my opinion, story is far more important. And stories can be innovative, specialy since in games, you actually are part of it. Mostly in the ones that you have choices, since what you do may change the outcome of things.

Graphics can also be innovative. Im not starting a war, but I firmly believe that Crysis got its score due to the awesome Physic and graphic engine it has, and not because of its standard gameplay thats most of the time not impressive.

the photography, games like Shadow of the Colossus, VP 2, Radiata Story, Assassins Creed have all a wonderful art direction that makes them really amazing to look at.

Now, I will get bashed mostly cause people think that either gameplay is all that matters cause they are games or because I criticized Crysis, but well, you guys are welcome, after all, people cant see games as something more than that, and most of the times dont care about the work that they have behind. Kinda like watching The Lord of the Rings and not being amazed by the beauty of the places and the music or the charisma of the story (which by the way, is much much worser than the book after the first movie; shame on the guionist:( )

This isn't SW, we, well I actually like to read users opinions not bash them :P