Do you think innovation is slowly dying?

[QUOTE="KH-mixerX"]

[QUOTE="Symphonycometh"]For a topic on innovation, I sure got more hits than I thought I would.Symphonycometh

Innovation is an extremely discussable topic(if discussable is even a word, lol). This was a welcome topic for the PS3 forum, although it might have fit better in the general gaming discussion forum. Either way its fun to talk about and encourages intelligent debates. Kudos Symphony!!!!

Thanks. Though besides you, I don't recognize just about any of these Gamespot members. lol

I must've done something right to get the rare ones. :P

Since originality and maturity often is hard to come by on GS these, topics such as the one you created attracts many of the members here who do not often post because of this lack. When the rare ones show there faces, it is a good sign that you've created a quality topic.

[QUOTE="Sokol4ever"]

I don't think that innovation in games is dieing out at all. Such a great entertaining console for the whole family as Wii proves that point very well.

Different systems will always produce few different games here and there, alas not as much as in the past. But that's not really a bad thing. Right now technology is prime priority in our culture, innovation is something that will come with time. I do find Folklore very enjoyable and different for example.

I usually like to stick to good old formula of games. Keep in mind that, innovative - doesn't always mean successful. There are hundreds of bad implementations out there that don't work.

If there is one innovation this year on PS3 that I would pre-order right away if it was available that would be - Little Big Planet.

Games like that define the definition of fun and good time. :)

kenshinhimura16

I still think that we have to stop looking innovation from the "gameplay" perspective.

Innovation comes from many places, graphics, photograpy, music, story. I think that those areas count in and are as important as gameplay. Well, maybe music wont be innovative, but it does have the power to make a game good or bad.

In my opinion, story is far more important. And stories can be innovative, specialy since in games, you actually are part of it. Mostly in the ones that you have choices, since what you do may change the outcome of things.

Graphics can also be innovative. Im not starting a war, but I firmly believe that Crysis got its score due to the awesome Physic and graphic engine it has, and not because of its standard gameplay thats most of the time not impressive.

the photography, games like Shadow of the Colossus, VP 2, Radiata Story, Assassins Creed have all a wonderful art direction that makes them really amazing to look at.

Now, I will get bashed mostly cause people think that either gameplay is all that matters cause they are games or because I criticized Crysis, but well, you guys are welcome, after all, people cant see games as something more than that, and most of the times dont care about the work that they have behind. Kinda like watching The Lord of the Rings and not being amazed by the beauty of the places and the music or the charisma of the story (which by the way, is much much worser than the book after the first movie; shame on the guionist:( )

Although I will agree with you on that particular point, I think, given the circumstances and source material, that the good people at New Line, Wingnut, and Weta did a very good job in its book to movie adaptation. Not entirely accurate, but nonetheless a good attempt.

I wouldn't say it's dying....as you get older you see cycles and notice commonality (real word?) in just about everything...it's a part of life...that's why some things go out of style and then come back in style...but every once in a while there's that new thing that comes out that's a slight variation of something existing or something completely new altogether...I believe you're looking for the latter...it's there...but sometimes it's just hard to think outside the box....tryfe_lyn

I agree with this. Back then Mario was at the pinnicle of gaming. We all thought it couldn't get any better than the formula that was used in the past. But now look at where we are now...All because of innovation. I feel it's just becoming harder to appease the masses with newer stuff because right now "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" mindsets prevail. Thats not to say it's a bad thing, just that new innovations are either accepted or not.

It depends on what game it is. If it is a story oriented game then yes graphics and presentation do matter/ If you are trying to be cute or whatever then they do not. Warioware rocked because every movement in that game acted like what was on screen for the most part. Folklore was cool because you lifred up to suck souls out of creatures, which is realistic to what soul sucking is supposed to be. but some games do nothing like dynasty warriors or devil may cry with the same issues as it's previous installments. I am especially disappointed in DMC since that was supposed to really be something and yet the camera still is crap and the gameplay was mostly the same as the other ones. Little Big Planet is the ultimate example of something that could be played for years by everyone.

The one guy who said story was innovation has a point as well. The example I have no one is going to like but here it is. Take Haze for example, yes it seems like your typical generic shooter, but the storyline behind why you do the things you do is interesting and the drug use affect gameplay. I mean you can take bullets better and see enemies better, are stronger and so on. You then switch sides and then play a completely different way than before. It also tests your knowledge of what you leanred why you were on mantels side. Did you learn what you needed to in order play the rest of the game? The gameplay is all about perception and how you want to go at it. Sure the graphics aren't as good and there aren't any new weapons, but the I don't remember the last game that let me choose how I want to play really, I am not talking about the free range go anywhere GTA style things. Innovatation can be in the way we learn as we play. This is also why I like Valkyrie Chronicles it is cool strategy and lets you decide on what do with your units.

There are reasons why innovations fail because of people in general. There are people who need something physical in order to understand the difference like a new weapon or a new controller and so some games that still might bring things new but not in a physical way drop out. Then there are people who can't do things complex and who just want to play play play, they only want to do one thing only and can't handle a lot of things going on. This is why the wii is so popular because you only need to do 1 thing at a time with those games and everything is point A to point B. People don't want to put in the effort to play their games and don't want to work hard and get a more satisfaction from doing it. Then there are franchise people and they buy sequels to their favorite games no matter what. I mean why do you think DBZ, Guitar Hero, Dynasty Warriors, Smash Bros (yes I said smash bros), tony hawk, need for speed haven't changed hardly at all or have stopped changing, because people buy it no matter what. Take DMC 4 that game isn't any different than the first one with 3rd ones moves, but it sold over 2 mill on both systems because people like names they trust. Why should companies try to change when they have 6 million suckers lined up to buy the sequel. I am pretty sure everyone will line up to buy COD 5 too

by the way way donnygorgus, the game you meant to say was timeshift not time crisis. Time Crisis is the on rails light gun game.

[QUOTE="tryfe_lyn"]I wouldn't say it's dying....as you get older you see cycles and notice commonality (real word?) in just about everything...it's a part of life...that's why some things go out of style and then come back in style...but every once in a while there's that new thing that comes out that's a slight variation of something existing or something completely new altogether...I believe you're looking for the latter...it's there...but sometimes it's just hard to think outside the box....KamuiFei

I agree with this. Back then Mario was at the pinnicle of gaming. We all thought it couldn't get any better than the formula that was used in the past. But now look at where we are now...All because of innovation. I feel it's just becoming harder to appease the masses with newer stuff because right now "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" mindsets prevail. Thats not to say it's a bad thing, just that new innovations are either accepted or not.

[QUOTE="Symphonycometh"]

[QUOTE="longlivecesar"]Innovation is not dying, but I am getting tired of the shooter genre.solaris1979

maybe that wouldnt be a problem if people beta tested low tech versions of these innovations? think about it.

You have ICO for an avatar! Awesome! Too many PS3/PS2 owners don't know that game. :(

To topic:

I think the biggest problem against the innovation in game design is the raising in development cost. When games cost 10-20 millions to make, no publishers would be willing to spend that amout of cash to "try" out an idea. Someone did an article not long ago about the difficulty of trying to pitch your game to major publishers before they are willing to support you. That, to me, is the innovation killer #1.

To follow up with that, the demography of the next-gen users may be another key point that people may have over looked. Most of us that bought PS3/360 expect something when we dished out 300+ for a gaming console, graphics. Certainly, the selections we have now are not short of eye candy throwers, yet all this graphic just means that the studios have to hire more artists to create loads of high-rez models/textures/maps so we won't sit there and start complaining about seeing the same face/place over and over. Granted, this makes the gaming world a lot more vivid, but at the same time it also means that game would be sufficitly smaller than what we had in PS2 until somebody come up with a smart way to streamline the process. This new hunger to graphic also leads to one obvious side effect we are all seeing right now: the overflowing of FPS and action genres.

... I am going to end this before I turn this into a wall of text. I don't think the innovation is dead, but due to the cost of the games now, they are appearing in other places (checked DS line-up lately?). If you had not done so yet, try to go to site like IGF (http://www.igf.com/, Jayisgames (http://jayisgames.com/) where indie developers and indivisuals shines with some of the coolest game design ideas. Pixel Monsters, for example, was just a graphic update of what's called tower defense games.

i think the problem lies within how much it costs to make a game.

but in order to avoid taking a big risk the major powers that be should beta test their ideas with a low tech debug model. for example, in the debug model, rather than having hd models you would have wire frames. nuff said.

No, people's memories are just getting shorter. The NES and SNES days, for instance, had just as many games based on movies as we get nowadays... hell, even McDonalds (McKids), Dominos Pizza (Yo! Noid), the company that makes 7-up (Cool Spot), Frito-Lay (Chester Cheetah had a COUPLE of games, I think) got into the mix.

As has been stated though, higher dev costs have reduced companies' willingness to take bigger risks for sure.

Innovation is dieng. The only thing that improves these days are the graphics. That's why I like the Wii the best, for something different! Dion4ever

Team ICO disagrees.