nudity in RDR

[QUOTE="supa_badman"] Clickety - The one user who can turn most posts into an ambiguously sexist posts. And no the only nudity I've really seen so far is a penis it's not in your face like in TLaD, it's when you see the guy hanging in the barn and you go inside and you see him from the front is where you see the nudity. And no from what I've played you can't pick up saloon girls.clicketyclick

I don't see why a shot of a woman's naked chest in a video game that could be understood in a wrong context can make girls feel bad about themselves and commit suicide because of the women in media has anything to do with standards that this user has. But this part is irrelevant and I digress.

Also you said men who play video games are sexist. (Note that you didn't specify 'some men' but just 'men') You made it seem like every game that has a bare chest in A VIDEO GAME is going to change a man's opinion about women and just think of them sexually.

[QUOTE="supa_badman"][QUOTE="clicketyclick"]

Wow, little bit of an overreaction there, denj. TC just asked, "hey for those who own RDR what kind of nudity or adult content is there?" He didn't even say he was uncomfortable with it. He was just curious what it was exactly. He might just want to know because he's curious. And even if he were asking to decide whether or not to get the game, it might be because of his parents, or maybe because he's living with a younger sibling. Or maybe it's because he's living with his gf and doesn't want to make her feel uncomfortable if that can be avoided.

And as for the violence vs nudity thing, it's not hypocritical. Violence is typically justified in video games - you're killing bad guys. Especially in this game, in which you play a guy who's gone to the good side and is redeeming himself. You're bringing outlaws to justice. So there is nothing really controversial about the violence in most games. But nudity and sexuality in games has historically had a tendency to be gratuitous and exploitive as well as completely unrealistic.

These kinds of depictions of women have actual and bad real world effects:

1) negative effect on girls' body image - girls are TWICE as likely to suffer from depression as males, starting at age 12 - ages 6 to 11 girls and boys suffer at the same rates. It's only once puberty hits that girls start to see themselves as inadequate and hate themselves. By age 18, girls are THREE TIMES as likely to suffer depression as boys. Girls are also more likely to attempt suicide than boys. And then of course there are eating disorders, which are nearly exclusively a female north american disease, in which girls starve themselves to death because of negative body image caused by being bombarded with images that make them feel ugly and unacceptable.

2) guys' perceptions of women. Obviously just seeing some nekkid chest isn't gonna do anything, but depending on how the women are portrayed, it can really distort a guy's concept of what women are like and how they respond to his... attentions. I don't think it's any accident that sexism is MUCH more rampant in the gaming community than it is in the general population.

I'm not saying it's a super serious big deal, and even if you could pick up prostitutes in this game, I'd certainly still get it. But what I'm trying to do is get you to appreciate how it is not hypocritical to be concerned about nudity and not concerned about the typically justified violence in video games. Despite what Fox says, media depictions of violence don't cause people to commit murder, but media depictions of violence haven't caused people to commit suicide like media depictions of sexuality have.

Roland123_basic

The man is clearly fully naked and that counts as nudity.

Seems like every topic you step into gets messy.

Not saying it's your fault, just... you know, saying, lol.

[QUOTE="supa_badman"] 1. You fully called the gaming community sexist. :? 2. I don't see why a shot of a woman's naked chest in a video game that could be understood in a wrong context can make girls feel bad 3. you said men who play video games are sexist. (Note that you didn't specify 'some men' but just 'men') 4. Denji's post has absolutely nothing to do with sexism nor that it doesn't even hint at it. All of his post is essentially saying is how most modern parenting/standards are poor and hypocritical.clicketyclick

2. But what does the girls feeling bad about themselves because of their bombarding negative images part of the post have anything to do with ANYTHING? If it did why did you chain 'Sexuality and nudity in video games has been gratuitous and unrealistic'? If it had nothing to do with a girl's struggling image, why chain it one after another? :? That's kind of what I meant by 'I don't see how', I just didn't elaborate.

3.You missed the next part of my post that was explaining that part that you erased for some reason. =\

4. Context can say a lot without you actually saying it. ;) The parts about women's sexuality and the 'rampant raise of sexism' in video games had nothing to do Denji's post let alone the TC's question. It looks like you just wanted to chirp that in for no real reason.

Uhm...I hear horses make babies :P

dah_master

2. But what does the girls feeling bad about themselves because of their bombarding negative images part of the post have anything to do with ANYTHING? If it did why did you chain 'Sexuality and nudity in video games has been gratuitous and unrealistic'? If it had nothing to do with a girl's struggling image, why chain it one after another? :? That's kind of what I meant by 'I don't see how', I just didn't elaborate.

3.You missed the next part of my post that was explaining that part that you erased for some reason. =\

4. Context can say a lot without you actually saying it. ;) The parts about women's sexuality and the 'rampant raise of sexism' in video games had nothing to do Denji's post let alone the TC's question. It looks like you just wanted to chirp that in for no real reason.supa_badman

2. Denji was saying that there's no reason to be more concerned about sexuality in media than there is to be concerned about violence in media. I was explaining a reason why it is logical and reasonable to be more concerned about sexuality in media than violence. You want another? how about that video recently of 7 year old girls dancing on national television to Beyonce's Single Ladies in red-and-black lace lingerie, gyrating their 7-year-old hips and spreading their legs while doing pelvic thrusts?

It's fairly obvious the connection that sexuality in the media has with the sexualisation of younger and younger children, as well as negative body image of older ones. On the other hand, no causation has ever been established scientifically between crime and violence in the media.

3. "You made it seem like every game that has a bare chest in A VIDEO GAME is going to change a man's opinion about women and just think of them sexually."

I said, "it CAN really distort A guy's concept of what women are like"

Can = may or may not, but it is possible

A = not every guy, but talking instance-to-instance, a certain man MAY get a distorted image etc.

As for your saying: "You made it seem like every game that has a bare chest in A VIDEO GAME is going to change a man's opinion"

All I can say to that is that I said:"Obviously just seeing some nekkid chest isn't gonna do anything" so I'm not sure how you concluded that.

I still don't understand your complaint. Completely baffled how you took that.

4. It has everything to do with Denji's comment. Denji was saying there's no reason to be concerned with sexual content if you're not concerned with violent content, and anyone who is concerned about only sexual content for any reason is a hypocrite. Everything I said was to explain how sexual content CAN (read: not always, but depending on the portrayal) cause SERIOUS problems in society, unlike violent content. To do that, I had to demonstrate that it actually has caused problems, hence citing the things I did.

And btw, I never said "rampant raise in sexism" - even though you put that in quotes. Just thought I'd clarify that in case.

[QUOTE="supa_badman"] 2. But what does the girls feeling bad about themselves because of their bombarding negative images part of the post have anything to do with ANYTHING? If it did why did you chain 'Sexuality and nudity in video games has been gratuitous and unrealistic'? If it had nothing to do with a girl's struggling image, why chain it one after another? :? That's kind of what I meant by 'I don't see how', I just didn't elaborate.

3.You missed the next part of my post that was explaining that part that you erased for some reason. =\

4. Context can say a lot without you actually saying it. ;) The parts about women's sexuality and the 'rampant raise of sexism' in video games had nothing to do Denji's post let alone the TC's question. It looks like you just wanted to chirp that in for no real reason.clicketyclick

2. Denji was saying that there's no reason to be more concerned about sexuality in media than there is to be concerned about violence in media. I was explaining a reason why it is logical and reasonable to be more concerned about sexuality in media than violence. You want another? how about that video recently of 7 year old girls dancing on national television to Beyonce's Single Ladies in red-and-black lace lingerie, gyrating their 7-year-old hips and spreading their legs while doing pelvic thrusts?

It's fairly obvious the connection that sexuality in the media has with the sexualisation of younger and younger children, as well as negative body image of older ones. On the other hand, no causation has ever been established scientifically between crime and violence in the media.

3. "You made it seem like every game that has a bare chest in A VIDEO GAME is going to change a man's opinion about women and just think of them sexually."

I said, "it CAN really distort A guy's concept of what women are like"

Can = may or may not, but it is possible

A = not every guy, but talking instance-to-instance, a certain man MAY get a distorted image etc.

I still don't understand your complaint. Completely baffled how you took that.

4. It has everything to do with Denji's comment. Denji was saying there's no reason to be concerned with sexual content if you're not concerned with violent content, and anyone who is concerned about only sexual content for any reason is a hypocrite. Everything I said was to explain how sexual content CAN (read: not always, but depending on the portrayal) cause SERIOUS problems in society, unlike violent content. To do that, I had to demonstrate that it actually has caused problems, hence citing the things I did.

And btw, I never said "rampant raise in sexism" - even though you put that in quotes. Just thought I'd clarify that in case.

I just think that sometimes violence in video games can be a dangerous.

Dangerous and bit more frequent.But that's me.

3. Really now? So any guy, who is completely normal and fair, CAN become a sexist just depending on the image? That's re-assuring. >_> I'm just offended that you're generalizing and saying essentially every man can be guilty of it. Wording is REALLY key sometimes. I don't think I am and I bet a lot of men aren't. That's just unfair to say.

I now understand what you're saying but your post had no obvious connection to it, and so I thought that those two parts are just coming out of nowhere.

Yeah, I've only heard of weewee in this game so far... which isn't a big surprise, considering the weewee that was shown in Ballad of Gay Tony.

you mean the one-eyed trouser snake

[QUOTE="iamshivy"]

i think the main charater in the game is a gay cowboy. you can go in the saloons get drunk, but u cant sleep with any of the hooker and if a hooker comes to u and asks looking for a good time, he says some lame line like, sorry im married.. yet we never see his family,.. and i think this one girl is hitting on him in the game but once again hes like im married yet my hole family died 10 years ago or something like that lol.. idk, this is just brokeback the video game.

Roland123_basic

[QUOTE="UnrealLegend"]

[QUOTE="Venom_Raptor"]

Its Rockstar, expect a similar amount to GTA IV ;)

Megaman5364

GTA 4 didn't have nudity at all

2. Relatively harmless? Do you know the dire consequences of teen pregnancy? I mean, not just for the girl, but for her child, and for society in general? Early sexualisation is bad. And what do you think low self-esteem is caused by if not negative body image, and what do you think negative body image is caused by? There have been plenty of psychological studies that demonstrate that media depictions of sexuality and beauty ACTIVELY lower self esteem. If you would like references I'd be happy to dig out my psychology textbooks and reference you them. As for the news story you linked - that guy could have been fighting over anything. It could have been his computer they took away, or his pet, or his tv, or any sort of punishment a parent is liable to give. But that story in itself does not demonstrate that violence in the games CAUSED him to act violently. He could have acted violently over anything. The violence in the game didn't cause his violence - the removal of the game caused his violence, but not any quality of the game itself. 3. Where did I say "any guy"? I said "a guy". And I didn't say sexist. I said he can get a distorted image of what women are like or how they'll respond to his advances. And where did I say "every man"? I said "a guy CAN" - can implies the possibility that it may not as well. "Can" means "it is possible that". PLEASE do not read into what I say, because although I know it's not your intention, you are in fact putting words in my mouth.clicketyclick

Well, since I started this I guess I'll finish it.

I think we can all agree on the fact that neither extreme sex nor violence is appropriate for kids. I mean, that's a no brainer obviously. Especially to those who cannot properly process it. But I think the problem lies in parents and the media as well as they really like to focus their entire attention on these issues, blow them completely out of proportion and make it the center of all issues of domestic society full of messages and innuendos only to turn around and put a blanket over it and suddenly tell those same confused kids who don't know what's what from what to "ignore it". What are they going to do? Obviously, jump all over it. There lies the problem. Ignorance. Mostly on the part of the adult. A great deal of responsibility lies with both issues.

But all in all, I wasn't talking about "kids" per se and my original post is true. A lot of things go hand in hand and you can't "pick and choose" to create your own reality and plug your ears screaming "lalalalala!" to everything else. Sexual content and violence are meant for adults. Nobody can say it's ok to have one or the other based on religious "opinion". Other parts of the world are more for sex and not violence. Some parts don't see a difference at all. It's about reality. I prefer the method that doesn't include burying your head in the sand because society and some church crammed it down your throat growing up. It's there regardless. Extreme violence doesn't take priority over extreme sexuality.

I can agree with you there, Denji. What I have an issue with is your statement that it is hypocritical to be concerned about sexuality and not violence, and, your statement that the TC is one such hypocrite, when he only asked exactly what the nature of the sexual content is - without even saying he has a problem with it. Being concerned with sexuality in the media while unconcerned about violence in the media does NOT mean a person would try to shield themselves from it entirely, or plug their ears. But I think psychological scientific studies have demonstrated that their is a justifiable reason to be concerned about CERTAIN TYPES (!!!) of sexual depiction, particularly of women, in the media. On the other hand, no study has successfully demonstrated that there is a justifiable reason to be concerned about violence in video games. In fact, violent crime rates among youth and young adults have dropped precipitously SINCE the advent of truly violent video games that caused serious controversy upon release and concern (Night Trap, Mortal Kombat, etc.) That trend has continued to this day, as games have gotten more realistic in their depictions of violence. Now I'm not saying that violent video games CAUSED this drop in violent crime rates. I have heard experts who analyse historical data give other explanations based on their statistical studies (the decriminalisation of abortion was one such suggestion) but whether or not violent video games contributed to this decline in violent crimes, the fact that violent crime rates have sharply declined so much disproves the generalisation that violent video games cause violent behaviour. Again, my point in saying that is to contrast this with depicted sexuality in the media, which has PROVEN negative effects. So this is why I say it CAN BE (not necessarily) perfectly rational to be more concerned about sexuality in the media than violence.clicketyclick

[QUOTE="Roland123_basic"]

[QUOTE="iamshivy"]

i think the main charater in the game is a gay cowboy. you can go in the saloons get drunk, but u cant sleep with any of the hooker and if a hooker comes to u and asks looking for a good time, he says some lame line like, sorry im married.. yet we never see his family,.. and i think this one girl is hitting on him in the game but once again hes like im married yet my hole family died 10 years ago or something like that lol.. idk, this is just brokeback the video game.

iamshivy