Elizabeth Warren Stands by DNA Test. But Around Her, Worries Abound.

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Master_Live

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#1 Master_Live
Member since 2004 • 20550 Posts

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/06/us/politics/elizabeth-warren-dna-test-2020.html

An excerpt:

The plan was straightforward: After years of being challenged by President Trump and others about a decades-old claim of Native American ancestry, Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts would take a DNA test to prove her stated family origins in the Cherokee and Delaware tribes.

But nearly two months after Ms. Warren released the test results and drew hostile reactions from prominent tribal leaders, the lingering cloud over her likely presidential campaign has only darkened. Conservatives have continued to ridicule her. More worrisome to supporters of Ms. Warren’s presidential ambitions, she has yet to allay criticism from grass-roots progressive groups, liberal political operatives and other potential 2020 allies who complain that she put too much emphasis on the controversial field of racial science — and, in doing so, played into Mr. Trump’s hands.

Advisers close to Ms. Warren say she has privately expressed concern that she may have damaged her relationships to Native American groups and her own standing with progressive activists, particularly those who are racial minorities. Several outside advisers are even more worried: They say they believe a plan should be made to repair that damage, possibly including a strong statement of apology.

The advisers say Ms. Warren will have to confront the issue again if she announces a presidential campaign, which is expected in the coming weeks, and several would like her to act soon.

For some Warren allies and progressive groups, Ms. Warren’s standing by the DNA test amounts to profoundly poor judgment. Some said she was too reactive to Mr. Trump’s attacks — tests results would never silence a president who often disregards facts, they said — and created a distraction from her own trademark message of economic populism. The president revels in repeatedly slurring Ms. Warren as “Pocahontas,” and conservative commentators like Howie Carr of the Boston Herald have enjoyed holding the DNA issue over the senator’s head.

“The biggest risk in engaging a bully is that bullies don’t usually stop, regardless of what the truth is,” said Charles Chamberlain, executive director for the progressive political group Democracy for America. Mr. Chamberlain’s group had, in 2014, launched a “Run Warren Run” campaign to encourage her to seek the 2016 presidential nomination.

“When you can’t win an argument,” he added, “then sometimes it’s not worth having that argument.”

Ms. Warren’s allies also say she unintentionally made a bigger mistake in treading too far into the fraught area of racial science — a field that has, at times, been used to justify the subjugation of racial minorities and Native Americans.

Racial justice advocates, keen to cast race as a socially constructed issue with little biological grounding, said Ms. Warren’s actions gave validity to the idea that race is determined by blood, a bedrock principle for those who believe in racial hierarchies and castes. Native American critics, including Kim TallBear, a prominent scholar from the University of Alberta, said in October that Ms. Warren’s actions relied on “settler-colonial” definitions of who is an indigenous American and amounted to a haughty refusal to hear out her longstanding critics.

This line of criticism has particularly stung Ms. Warren, who has made a point to hold several private talks with Native leaders since taking the DNA test, emphasizing her respect for tribal sovereignty and making clear she does not claim tribal citizenship.

Three people close to senior members of Ms. Warren’s team, who were granted anonymity to speak freely on the issue, said they were “shocked” and “rattled” by the senator’s decision to take the DNA test, which they described as an unequivocal misstep that could have lasting consequences, even on 2020 staffing. One former adviser, who also asked not to be named, called it a “strategic failure” that was “depressing and unforgettable.”

Gotta say, I have actually been surprised because right away after the DNA test I have seen quite a few liberals discard Warren's possible candidacy due to it.

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mattbbpl

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#2 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23356 Posts

@Master_Live: Yeah, she's toast.

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BlackBalls

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#3 BlackBalls
Member since 2018 • 1496 Posts

I can't believe how Trump's tactic worked. She shouldn't have done it. Had she ignored the DNA test she would be the favorite candidate for the presidency, as is stands she's done.

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Damedius

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#4 Damedius
Member since 2010 • 737 Posts

@blackballs said:

I can't believe how Trump's tactic worked. She shouldn't have done it. Had she ignored the DNA test she would be the favorite candidate for the presidency, as is stands she's done.

Was her mistake taking the DNA test or claiming to be a Native American in the first place?

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Jacanuk

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#5  Edited By Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@blackballs said:

I can't believe how Trump's tactic worked. She shouldn't have done it. Had she ignored the DNA test she would be the favorite candidate for the presidency, as is stands she's done.

Warren has never been a favourite to beat Trump.

The one with the biggest shot of beating Trump is so far Biden.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/19/politics/2020-democrats-rankings/index.html

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BlackBalls

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#6 BlackBalls
Member since 2018 • 1496 Posts

@Jacanuk said:
@blackballs said:

I can't believe how Trump's tactic worked. She shouldn't have done it. Had she ignored the DNA test she would be the favorite candidate for the presidency, as is stands she's done.

Warren has never been a favourite to beat Trump.

The one with the biggest shot of beating Trump is so far Biden.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/19/politics/2020-democrats-rankings/index.html

That was 7/19. Did you check the 8/19 poll?

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Zaryia

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#7  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

How can something this irrelevant tank her bid while Trump's x1000 more consequential/frequent gafs and lies essentially do nothing lol.

Dems are so bad at this publicity stuff.

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HoolaHoopMan

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#8 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 14724 Posts

She shot herself in the foot. Taking the test was beneath her and it backfired horribly. If she's smart she won't run.

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HoolaHoopMan

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#10 HoolaHoopMan
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@crimsonllama said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

She shot herself in the foot. Taking the test was beneath her and it backfired horribly. If she's smart she won't run.

lol, why is it beneath her? We knew she was a liar. Now we know she's stupid too.

In comparison to people like Trump & Co. There exists a degradation of 'wrongness' in actions...or just people in general. But keep being mister edgy.

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theone86

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#11 theone86
Member since 2003 • 22669 Posts

God, I hate 23 and me, Ancestry, and whatever other BS DNA testing kits there are out there. They've been shown to be ineffective and really should be shut down for bogus claims about predicting genetic diseases. Too bad she fell for it, for whatever reason.

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Damedius

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#12 Damedius
Member since 2010 • 737 Posts

@theone86 said:

God, I hate 23 and me, Ancestry, and whatever other BS DNA testing kits there are out there. They've been shown to be ineffective and really should be shut down for bogus claims about predicting genetic diseases. Too bad she fell for it, for whatever reason.

23 and Me sold all their data to GlaxoSmithKline.

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/xwkaz3/23andme-sold-access-to-your-dna-library-to-big-pharma-but-you-can-opt-out

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Damedius

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#14 Damedius
Member since 2010 • 737 Posts

@crimsonllama said:

what's edgy about it? She's a moron and proved it. And she continues to prove it by standing by it.

He was planning on voting for her. Especially after she decided to mimic Trump on trade.

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deactivated-6068afec1b77d

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#15 deactivated-6068afec1b77d
Member since 2017 • 2539 Posts

There will be still a lot of democrats running for president like how there were many Republicans running for the 2016 election.

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qx0d

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#17  Edited By qx0d
Member since 2018 • 333 Posts

I remember reading a study about 23andMe test results of Americans.

The study said that, for the average white American, you have 1 black ancestor and 1 Native American ancestor in your 512 ancestors.

It said black Americans are on average about 70% black, 20% European and the rest Native American.

So I don't see the big deal about Elizabeth Warren claiming Native American ancestry. I wouldn't expect an American to be all European or all African anyway, that is too preposterous. Even if you have people who are recent immigrants, their descendants would eventually mate with the 'average Americans' described in my second and third sentence, thus giving them Native American ancestry.

According to 23andMe, almost every American has Native American ancestry.

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LJS9502_basic

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#18 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 180205 Posts

Man if this is issue for you then you have problems. It's a big nothing.

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CreasianDevaili

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#19 CreasianDevaili
Member since 2005 • 4429 Posts
@LJS9502_basic said:

Man if this is issue for you then you have problems. It's a big nothing.

Ever occur to you that the issue isn't the results, but that she did it for Trump? That in itself, and according to you, means she has some problems. Kinda makes her look weaker, like anyone who falls/feeds a troll.

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LJS9502_basic

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#20 LJS9502_basic  Online
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@CreasianDevaili said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

Man if this is issue for you then you have problems. It's a big nothing.

Ever occur to you that the issue isn't the results, but that she did it for Trump? That in itself, and according to you, means she has some problems. Kinda makes her look weaker, like anyone who falls/feeds a troll.

Did she do it for trump or did she think she had to do it for her political career? I think the latter is a more reasonable assumption. I don't think she needed to do it but perhaps she thought the accusations would hurt her? Anyway while she has limited DNA that in no way dismisses her statement nor did she use it to further her career. I think it's pointless to dwell on it. And it will soon be forgotten.

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HoolaHoopMan

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#21 HoolaHoopMan
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@crimsonllama said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:
@crimsonllama said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

She shot herself in the foot. Taking the test was beneath her and it backfired horribly. If she's smart she won't run.

lol, why is it beneath her? We knew she was a liar. Now we know she's stupid too.

In comparison to people like Trump & Co. There exists a degradation of 'wrongness' in actions...or just people in general. But keep being mister edgy.

what's edgy about it? She's a moron and proved it. And she continues to prove it by standing by it.

If Trump were to eat a bowl of human sh*t I would say it is beneath him. He normally does not consume feces, hence, Trump eating a bowl of human sh*t is beneath him. He is also a liar and an asshole, however I can still gauge another action of his and determine that it doesn't meet his usual standards. Negative traits about a person do not negate another action being MORE negative, thus lowering the bar that they've set before.

There, does that clear up how I thought the test was beneath her? Or would you rather keep parroting one liners and sounding like a total tool?

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iambatman7986

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#23 iambatman7986
Member since 2013 • 4649 Posts

Who gives a crap about her DNA? It should be about her politics. We live in a sad country right now when a DNA test can result in losing a shot at running for the Democratic Presidential nomination.

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Jacanuk

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#24 Jacanuk
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@iambatman7986 said:

Who gives a crap about her DNA? It should be about her politics. We live in a sad country right now when a DNA test can result in losing a shot at running for the Democratic Presidential nomination.

Welcome to America and American politics, is this the first time getting acquainted with those two?

It´s never been about the politics, Obama was "yes we can" but nothing else than his ACA the rest was just about his person, Trump won because he was the best at saying the things the left have been forcing a lid on.

And at the mid-terms, it was more about either being "with Trump as a Republican" or for the Democrats that "we are not trump".

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vl4d_l3nin

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#25  Edited By vl4d_l3nin
Member since 2013 • 3705 Posts
@iambatman7986 said:

Who gives a crap about her DNA? It should be about her politics. We live in a sad country right now when a DNA test can result in losing a shot at running for the Democratic Presidential nomination.

This stuff has been true since the television has been around. Nixon lost to Kennedy mainly because he had a sweating problem.

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LJS9502_basic

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#26 LJS9502_basic  Online
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@vl4d_l3nin said:
@iambatman7986 said:

Who gives a crap about her DNA? It should be about her politics. We live in a sad country right now when a DNA test can result in losing a shot at running for the Democratic Presidential nomination.

This stuff has been true since the television has been around. Nixon lost to Kennedy mainly because he had a sweating problem.

He was a lousy president as well so I don't know what point you think you are making..........

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mrbojangles25

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#27  Edited By mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 60828 Posts

The fact that we as a country are still hung up on this is incredibly disappointing.

@mattbbpl said:

@Master_Live: Yeah, she's toast.

Yeah, the right will pick at this scab until it's a festering wound; it will never go away. She might survive the rest of her career as is, but anything more and she is done.

Which is fine by me, need some new blood in the system, tired of these people. Though Warren is arguably the least institutionalized of the old guard. She is not as far gone as Pelosi, for example.

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#28 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 14724 Posts

@crimsonllama said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

If Trump were to eat a bowl of human sh*t I would say it is beneath him. He normally does not consume feces, hence, Trump eating a bowl of human sh*t is beneath him. He is also a liar and an asshole, however I can still gauge another action of his and determine that it doesn't meet his usual standards. Negative traits about a person do not negate another action being MORE negative, thus lowering the bar that they've set before.

There, does that clear up how I thought the test was beneath her? Or would you rather keep parroting one liners and sounding like a total tool?

Lol, triggered af. I didn't realize calling her out for doing stupid shit was a one liner. BTW, I totally agree with the bold sentence there. Which is why I can't figure out why your leaking sand out of your vagina so badly.

OMG totally, sandy vaginas and stuff!!!

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Zaryia

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#29  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@crimsonllama said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:
@crimsonllama said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

She shot herself in the foot. Taking the test was beneath her and it backfired horribly. If she's smart she won't run.

lol, why is it beneath her? We knew she was a liar. Now we know she's stupid too.

In comparison to people like Trump & Co. There exists a degradation of 'wrongness' in actions...or just people in general. But keep being mister edgy.

what's edgy about it? She's a moron and proved it. And she continues to prove it by standing by it.

The main moronic thing was super easily being trolled and baited by Trump. The original accusations was she used her overstated "Native" background to get in college and get a job. But that was thoroughly debunked via official records. After this Trump moved the goal post to blood and dna. She should have completely ignored this and stuck to merely citing the facts that he lied about the original claim. Instead she took the bait, and this minor inconsequential gaff now seems big, meanwhile Trump's MUCH worse and frequent gaffs seem like nothing burgers (IE: His total statements on Climate Change alone are a billion times worse, but he's completely insulated himself from any harm from extreme lies.)

TLDR: She's terrible at the baiting and trolling game. Which sadly appears to be one of the more important aspects of politics atm.

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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#30 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
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@theone86 said:

God, I hate 23 and me, Ancestry, and whatever other BS DNA testing kits there are out there. They've been shown to be ineffective and really should be shut down for bogus claims about predicting genetic diseases. Too bad she fell for it, for whatever reason.

100% agree with you.

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jeezers

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#31  Edited By jeezers
Member since 2007 • 5341 Posts

I havent heard 1 good policy from dems since trump won, all of thier ideas are about how bad orange man is, if they want to beat orange man come up with good policy. Criticising trump isnt a new idea or policy.

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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#32 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
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@jeezers said:

I havent heard 1 good policy from dems since trump won, all of thier ideas are about how bad orange man is, if they want to beat orange man come up with good policy. Criticising trump isnt a new idea or policy.

That was one of the reasons that HIllary lost. Her message was Trump is unqualified to be president, but she never gave a reason to vote for her. Trump is unqualified, but we need someone inspiring to vote for.

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Baconstrip78

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#33  Edited By Baconstrip78
Member since 2013 • 1889 Posts

She never stood a chance to run for President. I hate to say it but young liberals want young vibrant candidates. Warren looks like a librarian.

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N64DD

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#34 N64DD
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@jeezers said:

I havent heard 1 good policy from dems since trump won, all of thier ideas are about how bad orange man is, if they want to beat orange man come up with good policy. Criticising trump isnt a new idea or policy.

Calling people bigots, racists etc is their policy.

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vl4d_l3nin

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#35 vl4d_l3nin
Member since 2013 • 3705 Posts
@LJS9502_basic said:
@vl4d_l3nin said:
@iambatman7986 said:

Who gives a crap about her DNA? It should be about her politics. We live in a sad country right now when a DNA test can result in losing a shot at running for the Democratic Presidential nomination.

This stuff has been true since the television has been around. Nixon lost to Kennedy mainly because he had a sweating problem.

He was a lousy president as well so I don't know what point you think you are making..........

Huh?

The Nixon-Kennedy debates were well before Nixon was president..so I don't know what point you're trying to make.

Here's what I was referring to

Loading Video...

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Zaryia

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#36  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@jeezers said:

I havent heard 1 good policy from dems since trump won, all of thier ideas are about how bad orange man is, if they want to beat orange man come up with good policy. Criticising trump isnt a new idea or policy.

You can try to make the case they aren't naming enough policy rather than being anti-Trump (which isn't the worst idea considering Trump's horrific approval), but not even 1? That's a gross exaggeration. This is objectively untrue as it pertains to healthcare, climate, cannabis, and infrastructure.

https://www.ttnews.com/articles/infrastructure-climate-be-priorities-democrats-congress-2019

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomangell/2018/10/17/congressman-issues-blueprint-to-legalize-marijuana-for-democratic-house-in-2019/#25b877b53aaf

https://www.mediaite.com/online/democrats-reportedly-create-2019-agenda-focused-on-health-care-infrastructure-and-reform/

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/9/24/17897962/health-care-campaign-ads-democrats-2018-midterm-elections-voxcare

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/17/upshot/democrats-campaign-ads-pre-existing-conditions.html

And polling shows most Americans agree with those.

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N64DD

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#37  Edited By N64DD
Member since 2015 • 13167 Posts

@zaryia said:
@jeezers said:

I havent heard 1 good policy from dems since trump won, all of thier ideas are about how bad orange man is, if they want to beat orange man come up with good policy. Criticising trump isnt a new idea or policy.

You can try to make the case they aren't naming enough policy rather than "Orange Man Bad", but not even 1? This is objectively untrue as it pertains to healthcare, climate, and infrastructure.

https://www.mediaite.com/online/democrats-reportedly-create-2019-agenda-focused-on-health-care-infrastructure-and-reform/

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/9/24/17897962/health-care-campaign-ads-democrats-2018-midterm-elections-voxcare

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/17/upshot/democrats-campaign-ads-pre-existing-conditions.html

Anybody can throw things up everywhere and hope something sticks.

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Zaryia

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#38  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@n64dd said:

Anybody can throw things up everywhere and hope something sticks.

I objectively proved @jeezers wrong. They did name policy, and policy which most Americans agree with. HALF of their ads included Healthcare. I could have ended with Healthcare, but issues like Infrastructure and Cannabis were also detailed. You can make the case that they did not name ENOUGH policy, but "not even 1" is dead wrong.

How you feel about it isn't of my concern.

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N64DD

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#39 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 13167 Posts

@zaryia said:
@n64dd said:

Anybody can throw things up everywhere and hope something sticks.

I objectively proved @jeezers wrong. They did name policy, and policy which most Americans agree with. You can make the case that they did not name ENOUGH policy, but "not even 1" is dead wrong.

How you feel about it isn't of my concern.

Not enough people agreed or it would be passed.

A few people kicking up some socialist ideology behind closed doors doesn't count.

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Zaryia

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#40  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@n64dd said:
@zaryia said:
@n64dd said:

Anybody can throw things up everywhere and hope something sticks.

I objectively proved @jeezers wrong. They did name policy, and policy which most Americans agree with. You can make the case that they did not name ENOUGH policy, but "not even 1" is dead wrong.

How you feel about it isn't of my concern.

Not enough people agreed or it would be passed.

That's not how things work.

And yes, most people agree with their stance on healthcare.

Seventy percent of Americans support 'Medicare for all' in new poll

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/403248-poll-seventy-percent-of-americans-support-medicare-for-all

Either way I disproved the post I quoted, you're just moving the goal post.

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#41  Edited By BlackBalls
Member since 2018 • 1496 Posts

@n64dd said:
@jeezers said:

I havent heard 1 good policy from dems since trump won, all of thier ideas are about how bad orange man is, if they want to beat orange man come up with good policy. Criticising trump isnt a new idea or policy.

Calling people bigots, racists etc is their policy.

Honestly I haven't met a Trump supporter that isn't a bigot or racist. And judging by your post history that stands true. There is a big difference between a Republican and Trump supporter. One is sane, although I disagree with them. The other is everything wrong with humanity.

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jeezers

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#42  Edited By jeezers
Member since 2007 • 5341 Posts

@blackballs: democrats love republicans since trump won lol its great. Dont fear populism, its the answer right now, keep america strong, we dont need a macron globalist president.

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N64DD

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#43 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 13167 Posts

@blackballs said:
@n64dd said:
@jeezers said:

I havent heard 1 good policy from dems since trump won, all of thier ideas are about how bad orange man is, if they want to beat orange man come up with good policy. Criticising trump isnt a new idea or policy.

Calling people bigots, racists etc is their policy.

Honestly I haven't met a Trump supporter that isn't a bigot or racist. And judging by your post history that stands true. There is a big difference between a Republican and Trump supporter. One is sane, although I disagree with them. The other is everything wrong with humanity.

Case in point here boys!

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LJS9502_basic

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#44 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 180205 Posts

@jeezers said:

@blackballs: democrats love republicans since trump won lol its great. Dont fear populism, its the answer right now, keep america strong, we dont need a macron globalist president.

You are so wrong..........not sure if it's funny or sad.

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horgen

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#45 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127736 Posts

@mrbojangles25 said:

The fact that we as a country are still hung up on this is incredibly disappointing.

@mattbbpl said:

@Master_Live: Yeah, she's toast.

Yeah, the right will pick at this scab until it's a festering wound; it will never go away. She might survive the rest of her career as is, but anything more and she is done.

Which is fine by me, need some new blood in the system, tired of these people. Though Warren is arguably the least institutionalized of the old guard. She is not as far gone as Pelosi, for example.

Honestly though. She could answer by attacking their policies. The Republicans are good at their game, but please don't fall for their bait.

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Gatygun

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#47 Gatygun
Member since 2010 • 2709 Posts

So she basically said she was a native without any proof at all, then she tried to bait racial minority's to vote for her because of this. She does a DNA test and isn't a native even remotely which anybody could guess as you can clearly see it on how she looks like.

Obviously trump easily baits her into a DNA test, because she was never bright to start with.

Then starts to confirm she damaged her relationship with natives and minority's and is going to find a tactic to get these people support back. LOL.

Yea its pretty she's a dumb as a rock.

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TryIt

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#48 TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

I dont think she was ever going to run in the first place.

Although Avanatti got a lot of heat for this I agree and understand exactly what he means 'in 2020 it better be a white male running for president'

why? because this country is clearly not ready

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Zaryia

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#49  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@Gatygun said:

So she basically said she was a native without any proof at all, then she tried to bait racial minority's to vote for her because of this.

I thought she said it in defense of people claiming she used her over played "native heritage" several decades ago to get jobs or get into school, although that was debunked.

Either way she screwed up and doesn't know how to properly quash nothing burger gaffs.

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Damedius

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#50 Damedius
Member since 2010 • 737 Posts

@zaryia said:
@Gatygun said:

So she basically said she was a native without any proof at all, then she tried to bait racial minority's to vote for her because of this.

I thought she said it in defense of people claiming she used her over played "native heritage" several decades ago to get jobs or get into school, although that was debunked.

Either way she screwed up and doesn't know how to properly quash nothing burger gaffs.

https://elizabethwarrenwiki.org/elizabeth-warren-native-american-cherokee-controversy/