If Trump coluded with Russia, are Republicans traitors?

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BlackBalls

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Poll If Trump coluded with Russia, are Republicans traitors? (36 votes)

Yes 50%
No 36%
Maybe 14%

So as we all know. Things are getting goood. Trumps closest people like his chief of staff (seriously) just resigned. Cohen, Manafort, Flynn have pleaded guilty... It's absolute chaos right now.

The question. Something happened with Trump and Russia, it's obvious now. Though the Mueller investigation, which federal prosecutors have blamed that Trump is indeed guilty is still under investigation

If all holds true and Trump did indeed colludeed with Russians. What does this say about republicans? Who have supported a traitor of a president?

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TryIt

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#101  Edited By TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@n64dd said:
@tryit said:
@n64dd said:
@tryit said:

actually the parts you are complaining about is very literally concessions the progressives made to get members of the GOP to agree with it.

Progressives have always wanted a single payer plan. Many progressives like myself are not happy with how Obama made concessions with the GOP to get a vote such as making in a legal requirement with a penalty to not have health insurance, that was NOT a progressive position.

That said, what you are expressing you would perfer in a universal health care plan is exactly what progressives have been adovacting for decades.

I would suggest being careful taking a position that universal health care should be anything other than 100% a pure market economy because 100% pure market economy is the ONLY position the GOP has been in favor of, so be careful painting yourself into agreeement with progressives.

I'm actually against universal health care because it doesn't function correctly in any known government.

two things

1. Universal Healthcare works and is cheaper in every single 1st world country on the planet. Ours which is the only non-universal healthcare system is the most expensive.

2. if you are against it then BE against it, dont paint yourself into a corner of 'well if ACA had this or that or benefited this person or that person' because that will pin you as a liberal. Be against it, like balls on a bull, be on it.

thank you

Pure trolling. I still have no idea how you're not banned.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/06/heres-a-map-of-the-countries-that-provide-universal-health-care-americas-still-not-on-it/259153/

yes...every single 1st world country

another link

http://factmyth.com/factoids/the-us-is-the-only-very-highly-developed-country-without-universal-healthcare/

The U.S. is the Only Very Highly Developed Country Without Universal HealthCare FACT

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N64DD

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#102 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 13167 Posts

@tryit said:
@n64dd said:
@tryit said:
@n64dd said:
@tryit said:

actually the parts you are complaining about is very literally concessions the progressives made to get members of the GOP to agree with it.

Progressives have always wanted a single payer plan. Many progressives like myself are not happy with how Obama made concessions with the GOP to get a vote such as making in a legal requirement with a penalty to not have health insurance, that was NOT a progressive position.

That said, what you are expressing you would perfer in a universal health care plan is exactly what progressives have been adovacting for decades.

I would suggest being careful taking a position that universal health care should be anything other than 100% a pure market economy because 100% pure market economy is the ONLY position the GOP has been in favor of, so be careful painting yourself into agreeement with progressives.

I'm actually against universal health care because it doesn't function correctly in any known government.

two things

1. Universal Healthcare works and is cheaper in every single 1st world country on the planet. Ours which is the only non-universal healthcare system is the most expensive.

2. if you are against it then BE against it, dont paint yourself into a corner of 'well if ACA had this or that or benefited this person or that person' because that will pin you as a liberal. Be against it, like balls on a bull, be on it.

thank you

Pure trolling. I still have no idea how you're not banned.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/06/heres-a-map-of-the-countries-that-provide-universal-health-care-americas-still-not-on-it/259153/

yes...every single 1st world country

another link

http://factmyth.com/factoids/the-us-is-the-only-very-highly-developed-country-without-universal-healthcare/

The U.S. is the Only Very Highly Developed Country Without Universal HealthCare FACT

Having it, and working are two seperate things. Universal is a shit show everywhere.

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Blackhairedhero

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#104  Edited By Blackhairedhero
Member since 2018 • 3231 Posts

@tryit: Yes I'm paying a penalty. What don't you understand? I don't have an ACA plan I have a private plan. So I'm charged a 2.5% tax penalty at the end of the year so bums like you can have health insurance.

You're calling people childish because some don't want to pay for every poor scrubs healthcare is the definition of entitled and sums up the mainstream left perfectly.

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Serraph105

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#105 Serraph105
Member since 2007 • 36092 Posts

@n64dd said:
@tryit said:
@n64dd said:
@tryit said:
@blackhairedhero said:

@tryit: No it sounds like I don't qualify for the benefits of it so why do I need to pay a penalty if I don't want one of the shitty plans so bums who do qualify for it can enjoy it?

It's simple people like me pay for your health insurance. And no that's not something I agree with.

you do not qualify for the benifit thus you are paying market value.

not a 'penality'

suck it up buttercup, the price you are having to pay is what the market would demand you pay if ACA didnt exist. So if ACA didnt exist your price would not change.

Now..if you consider that unfair and you think everyone should get benifits from ACA let me know and I will guide you to the next steps

Your taxing people for not having health care which is technically unconstitutional.

which is why progressives where against this plan and for medicare for all under a single payer plan.

That said, to complain that ACA does work and should be done away with because you want to pay the exact same market price that you are being asked to pay for now all because some people who make less money then you do are getting subsidies really comes off as the pinnacle of childish. I am explaining this as basic as I can.

I understand it, and this was created by progressives/liberals.

ACA is pure shit and needs work.

We definitely agreeit needs work. As a person who's immediate family benefits from it I disagree it's pure shit, but it has been very frustrating at times to both use and to get help accessing.

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N64DD

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#106 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 13167 Posts

@Serraph105 said:
@n64dd said:
@tryit said:
@n64dd said:
@tryit said:

you do not qualify for the benifit thus you are paying market value.

not a 'penality'

suck it up buttercup, the price you are having to pay is what the market would demand you pay if ACA didnt exist. So if ACA didnt exist your price would not change.

Now..if you consider that unfair and you think everyone should get benifits from ACA let me know and I will guide you to the next steps

Your taxing people for not having health care which is technically unconstitutional.

which is why progressives where against this plan and for medicare for all under a single payer plan.

That said, to complain that ACA does work and should be done away with because you want to pay the exact same market price that you are being asked to pay for now all because some people who make less money then you do are getting subsidies really comes off as the pinnacle of childish. I am explaining this as basic as I can.

I understand it, and this was created by progressives/liberals.

ACA is pure shit and needs work.

We definitely agreeit needs work. As a person who's immediate family benefits from it I disagree it's pure shit, but it has been very frustrating at times to both use and to get help accessing.

Glad it helps you out. No sarcasm.

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TryIt

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#107  Edited By TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@blackhairedhero said:

@tryit: Yes I'm paying a penalty. What don't you understand? I don't have an ACA plan I have a private plan. So I'm charged a 2.5% tax penalty at the end of the year so bums like you can have health insurance.

You're calling people childish because some don't want to pay for every poor scrubs healthcare is the definition of entitled and sums up the mainstream left perfectly.

so you are in favor of a progressive position on universal healthcare which is medicare for all.

Its one or the other, you only have two options here, you cant have both.

if you think your price should be similar to those that are getting subsidies then you agree with medicare for all, otherwise you are for a free market system of which is the price you are paying now.

there is no 3rd option

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Damedius

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#108 Damedius
Member since 2010 • 737 Posts

@tryit said:
@blackhairedhero said:

@tryit: Yes I'm paying a penalty. What don't you understand? I don't have an ACA plan I have a private plan. So I'm charged a 2.5% tax penalty at the end of the year so bums like you can have health insurance.

You're calling people childish because some don't want to pay for every poor scrubs healthcare is the definition of entitled and sums up the mainstream left perfectly.

so you are in favor of a progressive position on universal healthcare which is medicare for all.

Its one or the other, you only have two options here, you cant have both.

if you think your price should be similar to those that are getting subsidies then you agree with medicare for all, otherwise you are for a free market system of which is the price you are paying now.

there is no 3rd option

Lol

Your either with us or your with the terrorists.

Positions can't have any nuance.

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TryIt

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#109 TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@Damedius said:
@tryit said:
@blackhairedhero said:

@tryit: Yes I'm paying a penalty. What don't you understand? I don't have an ACA plan I have a private plan. So I'm charged a 2.5% tax penalty at the end of the year so bums like you can have health insurance.

You're calling people childish because some don't want to pay for every poor scrubs healthcare is the definition of entitled and sums up the mainstream left perfectly.

so you are in favor of a progressive position on universal healthcare which is medicare for all.

Its one or the other, you only have two options here, you cant have both.

if you think your price should be similar to those that are getting subsidies then you agree with medicare for all, otherwise you are for a free market system of which is the price you are paying now.

there is no 3rd option

Lol

Your either with us or your with the terrorists.

Positions can't have any nuance.

basically the EXACT thing he is complaining about is the EXACT thing the progressives DIDNT want but the GOP DID want.

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theone86

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#110 theone86
Member since 2003 • 22669 Posts

They are regardless. They're complicit in attempting to build a repressive kleptocracy that regularly ignores the results of democratic elections in order to impose their ideological agenda on an unwilling public. Further, they wage war and take advantage of natural disasters in order to turn a profit for their corporate cronies, work in tandem with institutions like the IMF to loot public resources from foreign governments, and give billions of dollars of taxpayer money to said corporations in massive handouts through no-bid contracts and insider networks before turning around and attempting to impose harsh austerity on the American public. The Bush and Trump clown shows are just attempts to distract the public from what they're really doing. Even though Trump's moves on Russia are perhaps the most public display of what they're really trying to do, at the end of the day he's just a useful idiot. I actually think it might be their plan for him to take the public fall so that they can argue that all of his sins were his alone and in no way connected to the ideological agenda Republicans have been waging since the seventies.

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ronvalencia

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#111 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/12/01/four-people-charged-so-far-russia-investigation/906920001/

Flynn, misleading VP Pence and lied to FBI on communication with Russian ambassador

Manafort, Ukraine and Podesta issues before Trump.

Gates, Ukraine and Manafort problems before Trump.

Don't cheat the IRS.

Cohen has nothing to do with "Russia", but for Stormy Daniels

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ronvalencia

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#112  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@tryit said:
@n64dd said:

Pure trolling. I still have no idea how you're not banned.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/06/heres-a-map-of-the-countries-that-provide-universal-health-care-americas-still-not-on-it/259153/

yes...every single 1st world country

another link

http://factmyth.com/factoids/the-us-is-the-only-very-highly-developed-country-without-universal-healthcare/

The U.S. is the Only Very Highly Developed Country Without Universal HealthCare FACT

US disliked AU/NZ's universal health care system protection in TPP! US has attempted to destroy other countries universal health care systems in TPP!

Patent, copyright and administrative reforms must be executed before setting up universal health care system. Obama Care has very high overheads.

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ronvalencia

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#113  Edited By ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

@n64dd said:
@tryit said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/06/heres-a-map-of-the-countries-that-provide-universal-health-care-americas-still-not-on-it/259153/

yes...every single 1st world country

another link

http://factmyth.com/factoids/the-us-is-the-only-very-highly-developed-country-without-universal-healthcare/

The U.S. is the Only Very Highly Developed Country Without Universal HealthCare FACT

Having it, and working are two seperate things. Universal is a shit show everywhere.

https://interactives.commonwealthfund.org/2017/july/mirror-mirror/

Australia

1. health care outcome is ranked 1st

2. administrative efficiency is ranked 1st

http://theconversation.com/why-biologics-were-such-a-big-deal-in-the-trans-pacific-partnership-48595

Australia has single out US "data-exclusivity-medications" condition as the killer to their universal health care system.

To reduce universal health's cost, does the Democrats has the courage to fix the current "data-exclusivity-medications" which dampen open competition?

UK, AUS and NZ already has reciprocal universal health care agreements. CANZUK movement has universal health care member countries.

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TryIt

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#114  Edited By TryIt
Member since 2017 • 13157 Posts

@ronvalencia said:
@tryit said:
@n64dd said:

Pure trolling. I still have no idea how you're not banned.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/06/heres-a-map-of-the-countries-that-provide-universal-health-care-americas-still-not-on-it/259153/

yes...every single 1st world country

another link

http://factmyth.com/factoids/the-us-is-the-only-very-highly-developed-country-without-universal-healthcare/

The U.S. is the Only Very Highly Developed Country Without Universal HealthCare FACT

US disliked AU/NZ's universal health care system protection in TPP! US has attempted to destroy other countries universal health care systems in TPP!

Patent, copyright and administrative reforms must be executed before setting up universal health care system. Obama Care has very high overheads.

Cute little side note but not related to why I posted that bit of information.

basically the point was he called me a troll because i said the entire 1st world has universal health care. he did NOT say I was a troll because it was good health care

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silkylove

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#115  Edited By silkylove
Member since 2002 • 8579 Posts

Toadies like Devin Nunes who have tried to deliberately derail investigations and feed Trump info for his defense or those like Stephen Miller who have tried to re-define citizenship to suit an ethno-nationalist agenda are traitors for sure. Those like Mitch who put party over country, maybe. Those like Flake, Graham and Collins are not, but they are cowards. Your average non-elected republican isn't a traitor.