Isis Briton Shamima Begum pleads to return to UK after giving birth

Thank you, I agree with all of this.

Anyone else have a feeling this would have gone quite different if UK voted to remain in EU?

I was under the impression that she had dual citizenship. Somehow.

19 years old? Sweetheart, you're an adult and made an adult decision to go join a terrorist organization and fight against the "West". Lay in the bed you made for yourself.

@foxhound_fox:

Technically, she was 15 at the time she went. That's the angle her family lawyers are using.

Still, not sure why the media is focusing on her of all people. There have been many others stripped of citizenship, many of whom deserve it (i.e. ISIS fighters), but many of whom have been unjustly discriminated against and expose institutional racism in the home office, like targeting aid workers, the Windrush generation, and petty criminals. And all the targets are exclusively non-white minorities who were either migrants or British-born children of migrants. It makes a mockery of British law, denying citizens due process by stripping them of citizenship.

The likes of Sajid Javid and Theresa May are essentially telling non-white citizens (migrants and children of migrants) that they are second-class citizens, and that their citizenship can be stripped at the drop of a hat, if they step out of line, or are accused of stepping out of line, or lost their documents. But instead of telling these stories, the mass media would much rather focus on someone divisive like Shamima Begum, which makes the home office look like heroes instead of racists, especially after being exposed as such by the Windrush scandal.

Are you saying they would allow a white terrorist immigrant to retain citizenship?

@LJS9502_basic: Yes. There was a white ISIS member interviewed the other day, Jihadi Jack, who still has his citizenship. And there is no evidence of any other white ISIS members being stripped either. The home office's rationale is that they can strip citizenship from people who can apply for citizenship from whatever country their parents came from, but can't make someone stateless whose parents are British only. Which is a convenient excuse to exclusively target migrants and children of immigrants. They didn't just strip suspected ISIS members, however, but have targeted non-white aid workers, non-white petty criminals, and Caribbean people from the Windrush generation, the latter of which was a big scandal last year which forced the previous home secretary to resign and be replaced by Sajid Javid, whose policies are no different to the last home secretary, which is a convenient excuse to deflect accusations of racism.

Jihadi Jack (Jack Letts) is white.

@ronvalencia: Coincidentally, I just mentioned Jihadi Jack in the post above yours, posted just a minute earlier. He still has his citizenship, for the reasons mentioned above.

I dont know what to do in these situations. I tend to be forgiving and have some pity, so I'd probably let her back in with conditions.

I just found out that the baby is now dead.

R.I.P, little guy.

As for Britain... well done, guys. What a great nation, punishing a British infant for the actions of the mother.

Source?

@horgen:

Shamima Begum: IS teenager's baby son has died, SDF confirms

Thank you.

More and more I ask myself though. It has probably been answered and I haven't read it or forgot it. Why didn't she just travel to UK?

@Jag85: Tragic as all this was, you don't think it was the conditions that the Mother chose to be in are more to blame than "Britain"?

You're ignoring that this was a very devisive subject in the UK. Simply forgiving her and paying for her flight home a few weeks after she said that the Manchester bombings were justified would have had half the country up in arms.

It's incredibly sad when anyone dies, even more so when it's an innocent child, but putting the blame on a nation is too simplistic.

@sealionact:

Well, if the UK had made an offer, saying "we'll take back the child, but not you", and she rejected the offer, then the UK could at least have an excuse. But no such offer was made, nor any other attempt at bringing back the child, which makes the UK complicit in the child's death. And blaming the mother does not absolve the UK, but that would just make both the mother and the UK complicit in the child's death.

No one was suggesting she should be forgiven, but the argument being made was that she should face British justice, let UK courts decide her fate, and potentially have the child taken into foster care. Which was a fairly reasonable argument.

No the mother is the reason why the child was were it was...........

The Mother was complicit in the child's death - her third - not the UK. The UK didn't send her to Syria, she made that choice. Maybe if she had shown some remorse when asked, there might have been a way for the Government to justify allowing her back into the UK. Instead, she said that she has "No regrets about joining ISIL", and that watching a man getiing beheaded didn't faze her, as he was an "enemy of Islam."

Remember, she was in the middle of a warzone, and it would require a military extraction to get a radicalised supporter of terrorism back to the UK.

Her own brother-in-law urged the British public to support the UK Government's decision to strip her of her UK citizenship.
Her own Father stated "If she at least admitted she made a mistake then I would feel sorry for her and other people would feel sorry for her, but she does not accept her wrong."

I'm sorry, it's a tragic situation ..... but I cant see any other country acting differently. Holland have refused to help her Dutch husband, and stated they would not help reunite him with Begum. As far as I'm concerned, the consequences of her hating the country where she was born, fleeing to join a group dedicated to the destruction of Western ideals and showing no remorse at heinous and vicious crimes means she doesn't get a second chance, and sadly, the blood of her three children is on her hands.

@sealionact:

The death of the first two children are absolutely the mother's fault, for going to a harsh environment lacking the resources to keep them alive. But the death of the third child is partly the UK's fault. According to the UK's own Metropolitan Police chief, it was an "entirely avoidable death of a British citizen". And sharing the blame with Holland doesn't make much difference either, as that would just make the mother, UK and Holland all partly responsible for the child's death.

It wouldn't require a military extraction, but just asking the Syrian government to take her and/or the child to an airport (the Syrian government would be more than happy to get rid of her). But then again, the UK's Tory government doesn't even care about British citizens in the UK, with thousands dying every year due to the government's negligence, let alone a British infant in a foreign land. This is just another example of the Tory government's gross negligence of its citizens.

Another example of "How to deal with a real situation that put at least one of my moral code at risk in any outcome I could go for ", good luck with that.

From the answers I read, there seems to have no problem taking the child without the mother. I haven't read the text so I don't know if there's a relative that could take the child and I don't even know how old is the child but taking a child to its parent due to their ideology and not the treatment to the said child is a paternalistic move that disturb me (but I recall the end of Pan's Labyrinth being a "good choice" from the rebels... but in that case, the mother wasn't supporting the regime, only the father so... ). The picture of taking a child to it's mother and telling "we know better than you how to raise your kid" should be more problematic than what it appears in the comments. Even tho I agree that it's highly more defensible in this case. But without a relative, I'd like to get your attention on what oftenly happens to kids in host families.

And for other issues, even if the kid is not to blame in terms of rights and moral, it doesn't change it potential brainwashed behavior (once again, if he's more than something like 2) , I remember a surrealist video of one young child brainwashed that cried until he had a video of beheaded people.