The US drone strike kills another 10 Afghan civilians, including 7 kids, by "mistake"

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IvanGrozny

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#1  Edited By IvanGrozny
Member since 2015 • 1939 Posts

Another example how the US can not withdraw in a human way. It's still killing civilians while doing so. What a freaking mess of a country with no morals.

Washing Post: U.S. military admits ‘horrible mistake’ in Kabul drone strike that killed 10 Afghans

A U.S. drone strike in Kabul that killed 10 civilians, including seven children, was conducted after numerous miscalculations by commanders who wrongly believed an aid worker was hauling explosives in his car, defense officials said Friday, reversing the Pentagon’s earlier insistence that the operation prevented an imminent suicide attack on U.S. forces.

The Defense Department had previously defended the Aug. 29 operation as a “righteous strike,” saying it tracked a white sedan for hours after the vehicle left a suspected Islamic State-Khorasan safe house. In fact, the driver, Zamarai Ahmadi, was a longtime aid worker for a U.S.-based group and was hauling water cans for his family, officials acknowledged.

“We now know that there was no connection between Mr. Ahmadi and ISIS-Khorasan, that his activities on that day were completely harmless and not at all related to the imminent threat we believed we faced, and that Mr. Ahmadi was just as innocent a victim as were the others tragically killed,” Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said in a statement announcing the military’s conclusions.

“We apologize,” Austin added, “and we will endeavor to learn from this horrible mistake.”

Examining a ‘righteous’ strike: Expert analysis of deadly U.S. drone strike’s aftermath in Kabul suggests no evidence of explosives in targeted vehicle

The chain of missteps ending with the missile strike came days after a suicide attack at the Kabul airport claimed the lives of at least 170 Afghans and 13 U.S. service members, prompting a sense of urgency among military officials. It also highlights flaws in the Biden administration’s strategy for targeting threats that emerge in Afghanistan from long distance, an approach analysts and critics of the president have panned as being vulnerable to inadequate intelligence and overconfidence among commanders reading ordinary behaviors as evidence of malicious intent.

The strike followed days of chaos in Kabul as thousands of Afghans tried to flee through the airport. It capped the U.S.-led war with what has come to symbolize Western intervention in Afghanistan, the Middle East and Africa: airstrikes that sometimes kill civilians, followed by initial Pentagon denials that it may have made mistakes far from public view, said Brian Castner, a senior crisis adviser at Amnesty International.

The 10 victims — three adults and seven kids — belonged to a single extended family, a neighbor who witnessed the attack said in the immediate aftermath. He described a gruesome scene of bodies “covered in blood and shrapnel” — with some of the dead children still inside the car.

“The U.S. military was only forced to admit to its failure in this strike because of the current global scrutiny on Afghanistan,” said Castner, a former Air Force bomb technician. “This is not the end of their obligations. They have to do their own internal investigation to figure out if any crimes were committed.”

Gen. Kenneth “Frank” McKenzie, who heads U.S. Central Command and had oversight of the Afghanistan mission as it came to an end last month, said Friday that officials were assessing whether anyone would be held responsible for the errant strike.The U.S. government, McKenzie added, is discussing “ex gratia” payments to compensate the victims’ families.

The commander who oversaw the operation, an American officer who has not been identified publicly, met the standard of “reasonable certainty” that a threat was imminent, according to one U.S. official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the military’s findings ahead of Friday’s announcement.

The military’s acknowledgment comes after three news organizations, including The Washington Post, published investigations of the incident that each cast doubt on the Pentagon’s claims, including whether Ahmadi carried any explosives and whether his actions implied a man who delivered meals to displaced people was secretly moonlighting as a suicidal insurgent. McKenzie acknowledged those reports played a role in determining the military’s mistakes.

McKenzie said that leading up to the drone strike, intelligence analysts were flooded with dozens of credible reports forecasting attacks on the coalition effort to evacuate Americans and Afghans from the Kabul airport, including links to a white Toyota Corolla — which are among the most common vehicles on the city’s roads.

On the morning of Aug. 29, Ahmadi stopped near a building analysts suspected was an ISIS-K safe house, McKenzie said. He picked up and dropped off people at various places in the city, the general added, and at a few points the vehicle was loaded and unloaded with cargo.

Ahmadi arrived home a few minutes before 5 p.m. under the watchful eye of an armed Reaper drone.

The father of four had a tradition with his kids, his family later said: Ahmadi would hop out of the car and let his children finish parking. Several piled into the car, his brother said, and they reversed into the courtyard under the shade of a nearby tree.

A few minutes after Ahmadi’s arrival, the commander fired a single Hellfire missile at the vehicle, destroying the sedan in an explosion and strewing bodies through the wreckage and courtyard. The drone operator did not see any children when the missile launched, but it was already in flight when three children could be seen just as the missile struck, officials said.

Surveillance footage from the aid group Ahmadi worked for, Nutrition and Education International, and interviews with its staff provide a portrait of Ahmadi’s mundane errands against the backdrop of the city’s humanitarian crisis. His route included breakfast with colleagues, trips to a bank and police station visits to coordinate security for food distribution, along with visits to the group’s headquarters, said Steven Kwon, the group’s president.

THE WASHINGTON POST

Videos captured Ahmadi carrying containers into the compound. He filled them with water to bring home to his family because utilities in Kabul were disrupted following the Taliban’s takeover, said the group’s country director, who spoke on the condition of anonymity out of fear for his safety.

McKenzie said the heavy packages were suspected to be bundles of explosives, such as the suicide vest used at the airport attack, but upon reviewing the surveillance video and drone footage, commanders learned they had mistaken the water jugs for bombs.

Those types of canisters are common for insurgents to fill with homemade explosives because they’re inexpensive, have handles and can hold a lot of weight, and it’s possible commanders familiar with that practice were overconfident about their conclusions without considering plausible alternatives, Castner said.

A physicist who assessed imagery from the site for The Post estimated the blast’s force to be about 22 pounds of explosives at the high end — within the range of a Hellfire missile’s payload. A described secondary blast, experts said, was probably the result of fuel vapors igniting.

The investigation concurred with that assessment, McKenzie said, with the likeliest scenario being a fuel canister near the car going up in flames. The Pentagon is no longer describing that reaction as an explosion.

Whether anyone is disciplined, human rights advocates say the incident should serve as a wake-up call to the military, which has long waxed eloquent about “lessons learned” — but continues to make errant strikes that end up killing civilians.

“There is still no Department of Defense policy on civilian casualties. That’s after 20 years of fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, and mistakes like these,” said Sarah Holewinski, Washington director for Human Rights Watch and a former senior human rights adviser at the Pentagon. “Will it be that this time lessons are learned, and U.S. policies and practices will change? Or is it going to remain the case that after the next strike the U.S. military comes out and says, ‘No, it was a perfect strike. We had all the intelligence we needed'?”

Holewinski said McKenzie’s apology, and the fact that he raised compensation for the victims, were positive signs. But she added that it was imperative for the Pentagon to make public the findings of its assessment of the strike — and any decisions about culpability — to show that officials are serious about change.

On Capitol Hill, some promised to lean on the Pentagon for answers, and conduct vigorous oversight to ensure there is full transparency and accountability. “We need to know what went wrong in the hours and minutes leading up to the strike to prevent similar tragedies in the future,” House Intelligence Committee Chairman Rep. Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.) said in a statement.

Leading Republicans, meanwhile, refused to accept McKenzie’s statement that he is “fully responsible” for the attack, warning that the Biden administration’s posture on Afghanistan meant only more risk that such mistakes would occur in the future.

“President Biden bears ultimately responsibility,” Sen. James M. Inhofe (R-Okla.), the Armed Services Committee’s top Republican, said in a statement, adding that the president’s “precipitous withdrawal of U.S. troops from Afghanistan has left our military with an impossible mission of countering terrorists without any personnel or partners on the ground.

“The August 29 strike shows how difficult and complex counterterrorism operations can be. Unfortunately, it highlights that an ‘over-the-horizon’ strategy will only increase the complexity and difficulty. We need a more realistic strategy for keeping Americans — and Afghan civilians — safe.”

Meg Kelly, Sarah Cahlan, Dalton Bennett, Atthar Mirza and Dan Lamothe contributed to this report.

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Zaryia

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#2 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

At least we are done with that crappy war, a lot less deaths from both sides from here on out.

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deactivated-622fe92f3678e

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#3  Edited By deactivated-622fe92f3678e
Member since 2021 • 1836 Posts

Personally attacking an entire nation is not a good way to start a thread.

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IvanGrozny

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#4 IvanGrozny
Member since 2015 • 1939 Posts

@thenation said:

Personally attacking an entire nation is not a good way to start a thread.

As a fellow Canadian, I couldn't care less. The American military is executing foreign civilians without trial and kill kids overseas, outside their legal territorial jurisdiction. In my eyes, your nation is as guilty as your military because your military represents your nation overseas. So, shut up.

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deactivated-622fe92f3678e

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#5  Edited By deactivated-622fe92f3678e
Member since 2021 • 1836 Posts

@ivangrozny: We got a badass over here! Nobody here cares what you or your country thinks about us and dont tell us what to do. The military has never and will never represent the people.

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jaydan

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#6 jaydan  Online
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Americans sure are arrogant to the rest of the world.

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deactivated-622fe92f3678e

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#7 deactivated-622fe92f3678e
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@jaydan: Im just one person, i only speak for myself. Im a left wing nationalist.

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jaydan

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#8 jaydan  Online
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@thenation: A troll, got it.

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Kadin_Kai

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#9 Kadin_Kai
Member since 2015 • 2247 Posts

Wait hold on…I thought the US is all about freedom, democracy and human rights?

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deactivated-622fe92f3678e

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#10  Edited By deactivated-622fe92f3678e
Member since 2021 • 1836 Posts

@kadin_kai: Not our government.

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lamprey263

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#11 lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 45482 Posts

Well, feel free to see if Canada can do any better.

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MirkoS77

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#12 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 17980 Posts

It was a miscalculation made days after thirteen American soldiers were killed among many other civilians. Heightened tensions, a chaotic situation.

Regrettable, but am I going to view and argue it as if it were the intentional, bloodlust-fueled murder of innocents?

No.

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deactivated-622fe92f3678e

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#13 deactivated-622fe92f3678e
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@MirkoS77: Miscalculation is a more fair take.

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#15 deactivated-622fe92f3678e
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@diefthyntis: Or he got put in prison for stealing and then leaking confidential government material…..Which is illegal and violated the Espionage Act of 1917.

Like it or not, what he did was illegal.

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#16 deactivated-628e6669daebe
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American forces murdering children, and civilians in general? I'm shocked! Ah, traditions.

The saddest part is that we accept this form of terrorism.

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#17  Edited By Eoten
Member since 2020 • 8671 Posts
@thenation said:

@kadin_kai: Not our government.

Then why do you always want to give government more power? If they are indecent, amoral, and cannot be trusted, why do you want them to control our energy, healthcare, etc? Because they promise to give you something in return? I once heard a very good, and very true quote on the subject. Give them the power to feed you, and you also give them the power to starve you.

I find politicians in general to be corrupt, self serving, and amoral, and that extends to all politicians on all sides. Not just Piglosi and Chuck Schmuck, but people like Gowdy, Cruz, Jordan, Bitch McConnel you can add to that list as well. Politicians created the bureaucracies, then appointed people to lead them. They do not work for us, never have, never will. They work for the interests of those that created them.

Don't believe for a moment that giving them the power to control your health, regulate and restrict firearms, or control the energy sector is going to be to YOUR benefit or that of any ordinary American.

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horgen

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#18 horgen  Moderator
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@ivangrozny:The US military just made a long term investment. There are still a few trillions tax dollar to spend on Afghanistan and making a couple of Americans richer.

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Kadin_Kai

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#19 Kadin_Kai
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@zaryia: Out of one war, but statistically speaking likely to start another.

I’m not sure in what order, but America never forgave Iran for entering the US embassy, Russia is always an enemy and China is challenging the top spot and American exceptionalism…

And yet, the strangest thing is that the US is happy with Saudi Arabia and Israel.

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#20 deactivated-622fe92f3678e
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@horgen: Im sure there is more money to be made elsewhere.

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horgen

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#21 horgen  Moderator
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@thenation said:

@horgen: Im sure there is more money to be made elsewhere.

Media full on minerals to mine there, aren't they? Like a trillion worth or so?

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LJS9502_basic

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#22 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180209 Posts

Stop clutching your pearls. It was a mistake they owned up to doing. Until you can get ALL people to stop wars, this includes Canada, this is the side effect. In short, people suck. Boundaries on a map don't change that.

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IvanGrozny

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#23 IvanGrozny
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@thenation said:

@MirkoS77: Miscalculation is a more fair take.

@LJS9502_basic said:

Stop clutching your pearls. It was a mistake they owned up to doing. Until you can get ALL people to stop wars, this includes Canada, this is the side effect. In short, people suck. Boundaries on a map don't change that.

Mistake my ass. Killing kids is a war crime. Using drone strikes in urban environment with high chance of civilian casualties is a war crime. I am not a military guy, but anyone with slight amount of common sense can see American military decisions are completely f*cked up.

What was the purpose of drone strike on a car in a urban environment that was not even going towards the airport?

What is the purpose of drone strikes in a country that the US is supposedly withdrawing from?

Can the morons of US withdraw in a humane way without causing additional collateral damage?

And what the hell is wrong with you people for defending this?

Your troops are kids' killers. Own it.

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IvanGrozny

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#24  Edited By IvanGrozny
Member since 2015 • 1939 Posts
@lamprey263 said:

Well, feel free to see if Canada can do any better.

Yeah we do better because we are not in the Afghanistan in the 1st place. Duh. Can you imagine it? Yeah that was a choice too, right from the beginning. Mind blowing, i know.

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#25  Edited By IvanGrozny
Member since 2015 • 1939 Posts
@jaydan said:

Americans sure are arrogant to the rest of the world.

True. If I had cause death of 7 kids, I would kills myself. I could not live with myself. But Americans being like, "Nah. Shit happens." It's mind boggling. Have they being always so insensitive or just became over time? There are people who actually defend this shit: "But but... oUR tRoOps".

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#26  Edited By jaydan  Online
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@ivangrozny said:
@jaydan said:

Americans sure are arrogant to the rest of the world.

True. If I had cause death of 7 kids, I would kills myself. You could not live with myself. But Americans being like, "Nah. Shit happens." It's mind boggling. Have they being always so insensitive or just became over time? There are people who actually defend this shit: "But but... oUR tRoOps".

For the record, I am an American, but I align with your concerns.

I am pretty disgusted with some of the responses in this thread, and much coming from faux-"tolerant" people. Americans sure love to feel righteous, yet lack any bit of compassion for anyone but themselves and people that agree with their own bigotry. Shocking how mere agreeability these days is what defines how expendable other people are to the "tolerant".

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LJS9502_basic

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#27  Edited By LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180209 Posts
@jaydan said:

For the record, I am an American, but I align with your concerns.

I am pretty disgusted with some of the responses in this thread, and much coming from faux-"tolerant" people. Americans sure love to feel righteous, yet lack any bit of compassion for anyone but themselves and people that agree with their own bigotry. Shocking how mere agreeability these days is what defines how expendable other people are to the "tolerant".

Shocking. People are human and make mistakes. The US does not have a policy of attacking civilians. It's unfortunate. It's a reason to use diplomacy rather than war. But humans aren't interested in that, from any country.

Canada is no saint.

And

There's more but I bet TC isn't interested in what his own country does.

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IvanGrozny

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#28  Edited By IvanGrozny
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@jaydan said:
@ivangrozny said:
@jaydan said:

Americans sure are arrogant to the rest of the world.

True. If I had cause death of 7 kids, I would kills myself. You could not live with myself. But Americans being like, "Nah. Shit happens." It's mind boggling. Have they being always so insensitive or just became over time? There are people who actually defend this shit: "But but... oUR tRoOps".

For the record, I am an American, but I align with your concerns.

I am pretty disgusted with some of the responses in this thread, and much coming from faux-"tolerant" people. Americans sure love to feel righteous, yet lack any bit of compassion for anyone but themselves and people that agree with their own bigotry. Shocking how mere agreeability these days is what defines how expendable other people are to the "tolerant".

Loading Video...

Thank you. At least someone understands the implications. It's so funny that we have so many double standards. For example, Disney+, the Winter Soldier. The new Captain America kills a fleeing terrorist and he's immediately deemed as a villain. Why? Because he is. He killed a surrendering enemy in cold blood. In the tv show, he's condemned by the military trial. So, we can see the morally wrong acts in a tv show and condemn them as such. But when a way worse shit happens in real life, we accept it.

Would it be ok for us if in a hostage situation the police would proceed immediately killing both a criminal and hostages? No. That would provoke a huge uproar. You don't need to be an ethics professor to see this is a completely f*cked up scenario.

Would we root for a super hero that in order to beat the villain kills innocent kids in the close proximity to the villain? No. That's f*cked up too. That super hero is not actually a hero. He's a villain

So how this drone strike any different from all aforementioned hypothetical scenarios. In order to kill one allegedly bad guy, without trial or evidence, which by itself violates so many constitutional and civil laws, you kill 9 innocent people. How is that even remotely a viable strategy.

If a military force of any country builds their strategy of fighting "bad guys" by accepting massive collateral damage of innocents then, no matter your reasons, no matter how justifiable your actions are , you are as bad as the guys you fighting.

It's so funny that people that follow high moral standards in comics, tv shows, books and video games are the same people who are unable to see clearly unethical actions right under their nose.

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SUD123456

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#29 SUD123456
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Using drones or gunships in urban areas creates more terrorists than it kills. Israel has been doing this forever and they never learn. The US is the same.

Besides, the whole approach is entirely flawed. Taking out this guy or that guy, this leader, or that leader is irrelevant. There is always another guy, another leader.

In this particular case, the US itself failed its own soldiers by failing to close Abbey Gate at the airport. Despite their own dire warnings and closing of the other two gates, they left this one open and allowed the suicide bomber to walk right up to them. There is some suggestion that the British requested the gate remain open, which the British have denied; but regardless, the US was accountable for security and absolutely failed their own soldiers. Then because of their own rage they sloppily handled the response and murdered 10 innocent people.

The only good thing is that the west is out of Afghanistan which has been nothing more than a money pit and pointless meat grinder that has left thousands of our soldiers dead and injured, and many more traumatized.

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jaydan

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#30  Edited By jaydan  Online
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@LJS9502_basic: I am more disgusted of the responses in this thread. It just is what it is, right?

Whatever happened to accountability? That's at least a big buzzword used against the police these days.

What happened to your accountability?

All you guys are doing is fitting the bill just how arrogant Americans are. I can guarantee if this is under Trump's watch you all would be losing your shit. Opposition politics truly is the cancer of American politics. It sure is a bitch to be just another cog in a corrupted machine.

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IvanGrozny

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#31  Edited By IvanGrozny
Member since 2015 • 1939 Posts
@LJS9502_basic said:
@jaydan said:

For the record, I am an American, but I align with your concerns.

I am pretty disgusted with some of the responses in this thread, and much coming from faux-"tolerant" people. Americans sure love to feel righteous, yet lack any bit of compassion for anyone but themselves and people that agree with their own bigotry. Shocking how mere agreeability these days is what defines how expendable other people are to the "tolerant".

Shocking. People are human and make mistakes. The US does not have a policy of attacking civilians. It's unfortunate. It's a reason to use diplomacy rather than war. But humans aren't interested in that, from any country.

Canada is no saint.

And

There's more but I bet TC isn't interested in what his own country does.

If it was up to me, I would prosecute all those people regardless if they are Canadians or not. And I was the one who created multiple posts condemning on how Canada mistreated indigenous people.

https://www.gamespot.com/forums/political-gamers-909409192/canada-day-is-boycotted-over-finding-of-hundreds-a-33562027/

So, I do not have a Canadian pro-bias. I just always condemn bad shit when i see one.

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deactivated-642321fb121ca

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#32 deactivated-642321fb121ca
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I guess they don't go to prison, a lovely foreign prison.

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LJS9502_basic

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#33  Edited By LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180209 Posts
@jaydan said:

@LJS9502_basic: I am more disgusted of the responses in this thread. It just is what it is, right?

Whatever happened to accountability? That's at least a big buzzword used against the police these days.

What happened to your accountability?

All you guys are doing is fitting the bill just how arrogant Americans are.

The US did admit what they did. My accountability? I had nothing to do with it. If we're going to blame citizens for everything their country did when fighting another then there is no country without blame.

Also his own tone was not one of sharing news but attacking the American users here and that is arrogant.

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jaydan

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#34 jaydan  Online
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@LJS9502_basic: Americans need to do better holding corruption accountable, whether it's on our own soil or across seas. I am highlighting the double-standards that faux-progressives only hold selective things accountable over others, in the name of opposition politics. If America doesn't knock this shit out, we're going down in flames.

100% if this was under Trump's watch, you guys would all be losing shit and only then you would hold it "accountable". And for the record, **** Trump, but at least I can rationalize corruption and sloppy execution without having to take a side.

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#35 jaydan  Online
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@LJS9502_basic: I am American, but did he attack me? No. See guys, the problem is not that you guys are Americans, the problem is you guys are so tone deaf to the rest of the world.

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#36 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180209 Posts

@jaydan said:

@LJS9502_basic: Americans need to do better holding corruption accountable, whether it's on our own soil or across seas. I am highlighting the double-standards that faux-progressives only hold selective things accountable over others, in the name of opposition politics. If America doesn't knock this shit out, we're going down in flames.

100% if this was under Trump's watch, you guys would all be losing shit and only then you would hold it "accountable". And for the record, **** Trump, but at least I can rationalize corruption and sloppy execution without having to take a side.

This doesn't meet the standard of corruption. Sloppy execution, yes.

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LJS9502_basic

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#37 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180209 Posts
@jaydan said:

@LJS9502_basic: I am American, but did he attack me? No. See guys, the problem is not that you guys are Americans, the problem is you guys are so tone deaf to the rest of the world.

He attacked you when he said you had no morals. Unless you don't have them that is and you think it's a complement. He has had this same agenda for awhile.

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jaydan

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#38 jaydan  Online
Member since 2015 • 9037 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@jaydan said:

@LJS9502_basic: I am American, but did he attack me? No. See guys, the problem is not that you guys are Americans, the problem is you guys are so tone deaf to the rest of the world.

He attacked you when he said you had no morals. Unless you don't have them that is and you think it's a complement. He has had this same agenda for awhile.

Now you're just making shit up. Go ahead and provide receipt to exactly where he personally called me immoral.

He actually told me the opposite to your claim. He said:

@ivangrozny said:
Thank you. At least someone understands the implications.

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LJS9502_basic

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#39 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180209 Posts

@jaydan said:

Now you're just making shit up. Go ahead and provide receipt to exactly where he personally called me immoral.

He actually told me the opposite to your claim. He said:

@ivangrozny said:

What a freaking mess of a country with no morals.


Are you part of the country?

He has an anti American agenda. Are you new here?

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lamprey263

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#40 lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 45482 Posts

@ivangrozny said:

Yeah we do better because we are not in the Afghanistan in the 1st place. Duh. Can you imagine it? Yeah that was a choice too, right from the beginning. Mind blowing, i know.

Canada did invade Afghanistan alongside the US though, and they were present there for many years. So did other nations as well. There was broad international support to respond to the attacks of 9/11, and multiple nations committed securuty forces to that fight. I don't think the choice to go to war was the mistake, it is the choices made afterwards that largely have been. From the US losing focus on that mission in Afghanistan to wage war in Iraq based on lies and corruption and squander its goodwill abroad. To use the cliche analogy of war being a hammer not a scalpel, civilan casualties are largely unavoidable once the commitment to wage war is undertaken. Right now the US is focused on trying to get Afghani citizens and Americans and even members of other nations out of Afghanistan safely. There's an ongoing humanitarian crysis and I don't think the answer to abstain is any more humane than making any concerted effort to try to achieve this evacuation, I'd even argue to abstain might even be worse. And yeah, again, Canada was a part of this war for most of its duration, so they probably should be compelled to show some leadership in its aftermath.

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#42  Edited By jaydan  Online
Member since 2015 • 9037 Posts

@LJS9502_basic: Fact of the matter: I am not a country that is immoral, I am a mere citizen. If you really take offense to the scrutiny of your own country like a personal offense, it says a lot more about you.

It's like when racist white people get offended and try to shut down conservations that criticize racist white people, all because they took it as personal attack and felt a need to validate why they think they're not racist. They're just throwing themselves on the pile at that rate, instead of listening in and understanding why people feel such ways and making a difference.

Immoral, you say? I dunno, I don't consider myself as such so I didn't feel a need to take personal offense to it. I called out one of your faux-proggresives for being sexist in SW the other day. Defending women whether or not they're present to see it, wow I must be immoral.

Nah, I don't take personal offense to that, because myself, a single individual, is not a country that lacks morals.

I actually agree with that statement when I see some of the responses in this thread.

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#43 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180209 Posts

@jaydan: Started reading the responses and I don't see anything particularly bad about them. No one is saying it's okay. You sure you're American? Must be self loathing then.

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#44 jaydan  Online
Member since 2015 • 9037 Posts

@LJS9502_basic: Calling me un-American and self-loathing just because I don't agree with you; huh, I guess you have run out of material.

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deactivated-628e6669daebe

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#46 deactivated-628e6669daebe
Member since 2020 • 3637 Posts

Bin Laden was so dumb, he could have just said he was sorry about 9/11.

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deactivated-622fe92f3678e

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#47  Edited By deactivated-622fe92f3678e
Member since 2021 • 1836 Posts

@jaydan: You called me a troll for not agreeing with you so spare us the crocodile tears and hypocrisy.

He didnt call you those things for disagreeing with him, he questioned if you were American, said you had an anti american bias and asked if you were self loathing. You do have an anti american bias, do hate this country and have made that clear. You have been trolling this since you walked in the door.

@ IvanGrozny: It wasnt an intentional act and i own nothing as i had zero to do with this.

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#48  Edited By LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180209 Posts
@jaydan said:

@LJS9502_basic: Calling me un-American and self-loathing just because I don't agree with you; huh, I guess you have run out of material.

Lies. I never called you un- American.

Frankly you are showing bias against the US. It was a tragedy. Not a deliberate act. In a perfect world violence and war don't happen. But taking a regrettable act to pile on the citizens of the US is nothing BUT an agenda. I read the answers at the start of the thread and saw nothing egregious in them. The US admitted what happened. They didn't try to cover it up. Most people you are denigrating in this thread are glad we left Afghanistan.

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#49 Solaryellow
Member since 2013 • 7374 Posts

This is the strike is response to the 13 soldiers killed in a bombing outside of the airport?

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#50 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 17980 Posts

@jaydan said:

@LJS9502_basic: I am more disgusted of the responses in this thread. It just is what it is, right?

Whatever happened to accountability? That's at least a big buzzword used against the police these days.

What happened to your accountability?

All you guys are doing is fitting the bill just how arrogant Americans are. I can guarantee if this is under Trump's watch you all would be losing your shit. Opposition politics truly is the cancer of American politics. It sure is a bitch to be just another cog in a corrupted machine.

What are you talking about accountability? Or as the TC put it, “owning” it?

The U.S. has come out an admitted the error. Admitting innocents were killed. Yet you guys still sit there in your pseudo self-righteousness acting like this was an indiscriminate killing , telling us our country should “own” it when they already have.

It’s war. I’m sure it’s very comforting to be able to sit there in the privilege of retrospect in condemnation at a time when we were desperately looking to take proactive measures in the prevention of more innocents being killed (which, lest you forget, was the entire impetus of this clusterfuck) , but apparently that slips your guys‘ minds.

How convenient, eh?