Ukraine and Russia. How will the world respond?

@LJS9502_basic: Biden should take a mental cognitive test like Trump did.

I thought ze German military was limited to defense? I know very little of the current status of them operating a military -- someone please educate and enlighten me.

@shellcase86: they buy most of their natural gas from Russia so I doubt they will be of any help.

Which is ironic because we pay them with military defense protection against Russia... But they buy their energy from the country the US is paying to protect them from... Makes no sense

How do you know he hasn't? Anyway, you don't need to worry about that. If he was impaired they'd use the 25th which should have been used for 45.

@LJS9502_basic: source? I don't see one available to the public like we heard about trumps

We don't even have a treaty with Ukraine. This is not America's problem, most Americans are not willing to die for Ukraine. Ukraine doesn't care about the US either. Not worth American lives. Putin is willing to do this while we are under Biden and not Trump?

Who has all this interest in Ukraine?

Oh yeah didn't Hunter Biden make millions while sitting on an Ukraine energy board??

What was that called again? Burisma I think??

That basehead Hunter Biden is the one with the most interest in this sham.

Most Americans don't care about Ukraine.

My home country will probably stay neutral again. Not sure this is for the better. Russia is already bullying us. And if they go unchecked they will eventually come for us.

You mean it isn't mere coincidence elected politicians have become millionaires many times over even though most make under $200k a year or right around it?

I'm sure it's all a mere "coincidence!"

It always seems to be the ones who donate the most to campaigns, or these politicians are invested in who get the defense contracts to. And that $200 million in military equipment is coming from corporations that are going to be a benefit to the personal and political interests of those deciding to send the money. These corporations manufacturing the weapons and equipment profit, but they're merely the middle man, the launderers of taxpayer dollars on their way to the political elites as they rob from us, and give to themselves.

The irony in this, the part that makes me chuckle the most, is go back through these threads probably no more than a couple years. Check news articles going back that long. You'll find "progressives" claiming to be against "millionaires and billionaires" profiteering off pour people, but the instant the political climate shifted, and their sources of propaganda started singing a different tune they've become the biggest corporate and elitist shills I've ever seen.

The tribalism, divisiveness, fearmongering on all sides. It's just a show to keep citizens too focused on each other so that nobody will ever hold them accountable for any of it. They'll just blame the other group of voters whenever a politician screws them. This is why I put such an emphasis on intellectual consistency, and pointing out hypocrisy that fuels the divisiveness that allows this behavior to persist. This shouldn't be about democrat vs republican, progressive vs conservative, it should be about the people vs the oligarchy.

Nah. You still have Finland in between. And we know from history that Swedes are more than happy to fight to the last Finn. ;)

But seriously, it's interesting times. Finnish navy is on higher alert than normal and ready to mine around Åland. And if Finns and Estonians together can mine the Gulf of Finland, it would make it really hard for Russian navy to operate in Baltic Sea.

You are right, we will probably do the Non-Belligerent thing again, where we will send in volunteers. Last time we sent in 8000 troops or so during the winter war. So even if our government may not want to be directly involved, the people surely will.

So this didn't happen under trump. There weren't any actions taken by putin to enter Ukraine. That's because trump shat on nato and our so called allies. There is no reason for us to back ukraine or any of the ex soviet union countries. For Russia, there is a lot of meaning to it. Trump understood that us stepping in there was out of line, it's simply not our business. These are all ex Russian countries and in many cases, NATO is crossing the line by entering these areas and setting up defenses. Again, it's not our business to be there.

In terms of foreign policy, biden has been a true unmitigated disaster compared to trump. Though it's not his fault, it's just the normal neoliberal stance on these things, to step into bs that has absolutely nothing to do with us, to provoke other countries for no reason.

At least in the case of Taiwan, the land never belonged to China. Even if the people are all originated from China, they fled, and that has nothing to do with China anymore. So yes China can piss off over Taiwan.

@blaznwiipspman1: Kudos. You jammed a lot of wrong in one post. This is not a new problem and has been going on since 2014. And you do remember trump's consider to Ukraine right? Impeachment number one. Also the Soviet Union took the Ukraine. They got their independence back. But they are not Russians.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-orders-3-000-troops-to-bolster-european-allies-in-russia-ukraine-crisis-11643810404

US is sending 3000 troops to Europe.

Joe Biden just gave green light to Putin and Russia to invade Ukraine

Only thing Russians have to be careful is not hurt any Americans. But as long as they keep just killing Ukrainians, it's fine. Reminds me of something that happened awhile ago.. oh yeah, Nazi Germany and WW2. People who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

Fox News will cheer for Russia to win.

That's sad -- but not out of the realm of impossibility.

How will they do that?

*Crickets*

Nobody for a moment thought Biden had any balls on this matter anyway. He has already shown himself to be weak and ineffectual, a blowhard. He's also taken money from Russian oligarchs, so his loyalties are at best questionable on the matter. And he VPed for Mr "tell president Putin I'll have more flexibility after my re-election" who sat back and did nothing while Russia took Crimea.

Now, I'm not saying the US should be involved, quite the contrary, tbh, **** Europe. But Joe Biden's motives aren't about putting the US, it's soldiers, or it's people first. It's about putting Russia first, which is what we expected him to do with his history.

The US won't do anything. Will get annexed.

Russia can invade Ukraine and it has the firepower to defeat the Ukrainian army, but I can't see how it could occupy Ukraine or even have enough power to keep a proxy government in power friendly to Russia.

The Russians have an estimated 130,000 troops near the border. Ukraine has a population of over 41 million. Back in the cold war when the Soviets and their then Warsaw Pact Allies invaded what was Czechoslovakia in 1968, it took 250,000 troops in the initial invasion, followed by another 250,000 follow up forces. And that was to hold down a population of what was then around 14 million people.

To hold the whole of Ukraine would require more than 130,000 men. Russia has an army of around 800,000 soldiers, but it can't be really compared to that of the U.S. Only around a third of that number could be even considered 'first rate'.

Fairly different situation than Czechoslovakia in 1968. Russia doesn't have their eye on the entirety of Ukraine, but the Donbass region where there are a lot of ethnic Russians (nearly 40%) who are sympathetic to Russian intervention. There will be plenty of local volunteers who will be willing to put on a Russian uniform.

People seem to forget Russia has already invaded and is currently still occupying a large section of Ukraine. They'll do it one section at a time, severely limiting the resources and manpower Ukraine has to fight back with every piece they take. They are essentially being flesh-grazed as we speak. Ukraine can't really do much to stop it, and nobody in Europe is willing to help them either. A nation in that situation isn't going to last for long.

Not an invasion(not a single shot fired), people vote to be part of russia as it always was.

Occupying? NO, more like liberation since the majority of the population in the crimean are russians.

Tell me then. What is the difference between a Russian and a Ukrainian? You do understand the history of the region, right? Do you understand that Kiev was once the capitol of Russian civilization? They're the same people with the same history and the same ancestors. To try to split hairs to justify aggression from Russia now is simply disingenuous, dishonest, and rooted in Russian propaganda.

You said it yourself, Ukrainian history, land, and people are so intertwined with Russia that any move towards separation from Russia influence is perceived as aggression. No need to spread misinformation about crimean invasion.

So? US history and people are fairly intertwined with that of the commonwealth nations. Does this give us some kind of permission to invade Canada? What about Germany? They have a history, land, and people once known as Prussia that includes about half of Poland. Does this give Germany permission to invade Poland?

Your argument fails when you try to apply it anywhere else.