What's wrong with vaccine passports?

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SUD123456

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#51 SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 7059 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@Xabiss said:

What's wrong with vaccine passports?

Easy to answer. EVERYTHING! It is my right to get the vaccine or not. I should not be forced into getting something just so I can do things in my own country. If you have the vaccine why does it matter if I don't get it? No private business has any right to know what I have done medically period!

The vaccine should never be forced on ANYONE!

No one is taking your right to decide whether to take a vaccine or not. However, society DOES have a right to protect itself. Which means your decision comes with consequences. You have NO right to inflict your bad decisions on others and the DO have a right to be protected from YOU.

You are focused only on the anti-vaccine use case. There are citizens that cannot and will not ever be able to be vaccinated due to various medical conditions. Those people should not be singled out in society.

Moreover, it is not necessary to have absolute coverage in the first place to reach herd immunity.

Third, as a matter of practicality and timing, the notion of internal use passports is a non-starter to begin with. How many months would it take to conceive of the plan, execute everything so that people actually have the documentation and then adjust the societal norms to implement? The answer is far longer than it will take to reach herd immunity through exposure and vaccination of the willing.

International travel is a much more reasonable application because it affects a much smaller % of people, it is a discretionary activity, and there are widely varying rates of exposure/vaccination dependent upon the country of origin.

Finally, you will never eradicate this and control mutation because of the nature of this virus. But you don't have to which makes that line of reasoning a red herring. Once herd immunity is reached there won't be sufficient hosts to lead to societal wide spread and mutations will be dealt with through seasonal and or booster shots.

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LJS9502_basic

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#52 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180189 Posts

@SUD123456 said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

No one is taking your right to decide whether to take a vaccine or not. However, society DOES have a right to protect itself. Which means your decision comes with consequences. You have NO right to inflict your bad decisions on others and the DO have a right to be protected from YOU.

You are focused only on the anti-vaccine use case. There are citizens that cannot and will not ever be able to be vaccinated due to various medical conditions. Those people should not be singled out in society.

Moreover, it is not necessary to have absolute coverage in the first place to reach herd immunity.

Third, as a matter of practicality and timing, the notion of internal use passports is a non-starter to begin with. How many months would it take to conceive of the plan, execute everything so that people actually have the documentation and then adjust the societal norms to implement? The answer is far longer than it will take to reach herd immunity through exposure and vaccination of the willing.

International travel is a much more reasonable application because it affects a much smaller % of people, it is a discretionary activity, and there are widely varying rates of exposure/vaccination dependent upon the country of origin.

Finally, you will never eradicate this and control mutation because of the nature of this virus. But you don't have to which makes that line of reasoning a red herring. Once herd immunity is reached there won't be sufficient hosts to lead to societal wide spread and mutations will be dealt with through seasonal and or booster shots.

Those people should continue to use masks.

We need more coverage than we currently have because the virus is mutating while allowed to roam free.

I have a card they gave me when I received my vaccines. It was free and was done that day with the second shot added.

No it won't be eradicated because people are too selfish to take the steps.

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#53 SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 7059 Posts

@LJS9502_basic: You can't ask people to wear masks forever.

Yes, you do need to increase coverage. But continued talk of internal vaccine passports is counterproductive because that is just one more reason that some people will not get vaccinated.

You have a card. I have a piece of paper. Is it local. State. National. How many variations are there? How controlled are those cards/forms? What are people supposed to do with them? Is the bus going to stop an extra 5 min to check every passenger has a passport before getting on? Where and when are you going to need them? How are you going to enforce any of this? Do we seriously think the teenager at the front of the restaurant is going to check everyone's vaccine info?

Think of when you do have to use a real passport. Lines. Lines everywhere. And didn't the CDC just announce yesterday that you can pretty much go anywhere and do anything without a mask if fully vaccinated? Excepting buses of course :) The upshot is that it is completely unrealistic to implement.

Vaccine compliance does not lead to eradication for this type of virus. They aren't 100% effective in either immunity or in transmission. Therefore, even if every person on earth was vaccinated today this virus will not completely disappear.

For people who choose never to get vaccinated, it is pretty much inevitable they will be infected. They will then either die or recover and develop anti-bodies. And there will always be a few hosts that mutation occurs in whether vaccinated or not. Rinse and repeat. As I have gotten older I have tended to get the seasonal flu shot for the same reason.

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#54 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180189 Posts

@SUD123456 said:

@LJS9502_basic: You can't ask people to wear masks forever.

Yes, you do need to increase coverage. But continued talk of internal vaccine passports is counterproductive because that is just one more reason that some people will not get vaccinated.

You have a card. I have a piece of paper. Is it local. State. National. How many variations are there? How controlled are those cards/forms? What are people supposed to do with them? Is the bus going to stop an extra 5 min to check every passenger has a passport before getting on? Where and when are you going to need them? How are you going to enforce any of this? Do we seriously think the teenager at the front of the restaurant is going to check everyone's vaccine info?

Think of when you do have to use a real passport. Lines. Lines everywhere. And didn't the CDC just announce yesterday that you can pretty much go anywhere and do anything without a mask if fully vaccinated? Excepting buses of course :) The upshot is that it is completely unrealistic to implement.

Vaccine compliance does not lead to eradication for this type of virus. They aren't 100% effective in either immunity or in transmission. Therefore, even if every person on earth was vaccinated today this virus will not completely disappear.

For people who choose never to get vaccinated, it is pretty much inevitable they will be infected. They will then either die or recover and develop anti-bodies. And there will always be a few hosts that mutation occurs in whether vaccinated or not. Rinse and repeat. As I have gotten older I have tended to get the seasonal flu shot for the same reason.

Then they risk the virus. If they have medical conditions that won't let them take the vaccine they have to protect themselves.

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Nate_The_Not_Great_But_Okay

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#55 Nate_The_Not_Great_But_Okay
Member since 2018 • 40 Posts

Not sure if the "passport" is the problem, so much as implementation. If people were talking about making it as simple as linking the proof of vaccination to the passport number, I don't think people would care overly much.

As far as people not vaccinated...they'll have to wait until they're allowed, if they're allowed. I expect people who can't get the vaccine due to compromised immune systems would be given leniency. Anti-vaxxers who have literally no actual, factual medical reason to not get the vaccine should not, as those self-entitled individuals but those with compromised immune systems at serious risk.