Who will blink first - Democrats or Trump (government shutdown)?

What is the Demicrats' motivation for giving in to Trump's demands?

At this moment in time, none whatsoever. Trumps approval rating are low, Democrats just won the house - meaning there's an anti-Trump backlash brewing, wall is unpopular - except with Trump's base, unemployment rate is up and the stock market is down. NONE.

@mattbbpl: I would argue, if anything, empathy for the people who have been furloughed and/or those who have been working for free with the expectation of backpay.

You cannot give in to these tactics. And you have to let trump take the fall for his decision.

@Serraph105: Does the GOP not have empathy?

Hey, what do you know. I managed to say that with a straight face.

I mean, I agree with you here. Rewarding the behavior the president has taken is a recipie for disaster and sets a precedent for him to do it again. I just worry that democrats concern for those affected by the president's behavior will override their current resolve to tell the Toddler In Chief no and stop throwing temper tantrums.

hopefully trump doesn't back down on this. I remember Obama was constantly bending over to the republicans after his first shutdown. Always sacrificing his ideals in order to appease the conjobs who were willing to hold the government workers hostage. Obama didn't have a spine unlike trump whos going to go all the way. Yeah Trump will probably get kicked out in 2020 and before it happens he will pardon himself so he can't be tried as a criminal after he leaves the office, but one of the good qualities of Trump that I didn't see with Obama is that he doesn't bend over as easily. The wall definitely is important, and hopefully Trump gets his way.

Whatever the case, a government shutdown is a great thing! It stops the scam artist snake politicians from doing more damage to the free market with their commie ways. I do feel bad for the workers, but if I were them, i'd quit and find a job elsewhere.

Well I hope Trump caves, but I honestly don't expect much out of the Democrats.

Hahaha tough to do.

But I imagine some do, but not enough. And at the rate the current GOP leadership seems to be coming to their senses (sloooooowly), they never will as a whole. Most of the GOP officials that do speak out are often in positions that don't really matter, too, i.e. not in congress or senate.

Hell, we lost Flake, for example. McCain is dead. And Romney, well, he might have been critical recently, but I imagine he will toe the line when it comes down to it.

And that is why I am worried. The Democrats are certainly the party of "bleeding hearts", which is good concerning people's welfare, but bad when negotiating and playing hardball.

I wonder how long Trump will actually keep this going. We ask about empathy, but I am fairly certain Trump has absolutely none. I think it will come down to something catastrophic (25th Amendment?) before it comes to something reasonable.

Trump. The polls are not in his favor, and he owns it.

What are you talking about?

Politicians are still getting paid. Non-essential government workers and people who need government assistance, as well as our national parks are getting screwed over. They're people who have bills to pay and cannot pay them thanks to the incompetence of an administration that is pursuing a vanity project.

Anyways, I have a feeling this will backfire on the Democratic majority in the House. Why? People will shift the blame for a variety of reasons. I hope Trump capitulates on this because the wall won't do anything substantial for border security. Or at least gets impeached and his cronies sent to jail. That'd be nice.

I think the Democrats will cave in on it.

As far as I've heard, TSA agents aren't getting paid, people relying on government housing assistance aren't getting anything, food stamps are running out. I think the article I read mentioned something like 38 million people being affected if this draws out another week or two.

Which he said he would proudly do......until he actually had to do it. Lol.

Most Americans disagree with this. And most workers not getting pay do NOT want the Trump shutdown. Multiple polls. And the wall is not important, which is why Sanders and Trump have to lie about it.

Digging in on immigration. But public opinion and the midterm scoreboard aren't with him.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/trump-still-digging-immigration-public-opinion-midterm-scoreboard-aren-t-n955621

The Trump administration’s misleading spin on immigration, crime and terrorism

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/01/07/trump-administrations-misleading-spin-immigration-crime-terrorism/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c69042356a7e

Chris Wallace fact-checks Sarah Huckabee Sanders on border security

https://nypost.com/2019/01/06/chris-wallace-fact-checks-sarah-huckabee-sanders-on-border-security/

“Do you know where those 4,000 people come — where they’re captured?,” Wallace asked her. “Airports.”

“Not always,” she said.

“At airports,” he insisted.

“The State Department says there hasn’t been any terrorists that they’ve found coming across the southern border with Mexico,” Wallace continued.

P.S. It's likely not going to be a wall, even if it does miraculously got through. Just a heads up.

If we could somehow convince some of the Senate republicans to impeach trump that will be great. With Mike Pence at least he's willing enough for a compromise on the border wall.

At this rate, I could see the president caving if the media gets enough support behind the Democrats. People aren't getting paid, TSA workers are calling in sick so they can take other odd jobs for pay, and major talking heads on the air as well as Blue Checkmarks are preaching that the wall is racist.

But at the same time, it can't be beneficial to Nancy Pelosi or the Democrats when people realize that the bills they have proposed have more money set aside for foreign aid than domestic border security. Republicans will be sure to bring that up when the next election cycle comes up.

Neither.

Trump declares a National Emergency tomorrow night in order to build the "wall".

I’m sure that lawyers against the wall are preparing court challenges to his anticipated actions as we speak.

Long term, foriegn aid does far more to stem illegal immigration than border security does. It's better for the country in all sorts of other ways as well, but I digress.

Here's another big ol' reason for democrats to stay the course on this, Trump's approval ratings have been dropping throughout this shutdown and his dissaproval ratings have shot way up.

Well, everyone make sure you're tuned in for tomorrow night. I guess we'll finally find out if he's going to declare a state of emergency or take it on a tangent somewhere else.

@HoolaHoopMan: well, I'm going to look at the news online instead of tv. I don't watch tv anymore.

Democrats. Trump reversed his demand for funding for the border wall for a few days and was heavily criticized by the commies and talking head legacy media - as well as angering his base. He won't give them an inch now.

And really why should he? He was elected on a platform of building a border wall or at the very least increasing border security. The commies are against border security and think anyone should just be able to waltz in and get free rent and a welfare cheque. There is no common ground and frankly i'm amazed he still tries - even remotely - to find it.

There is simply no incentive for him to cave on this. The people who are affected most by a government shutdown are leftists and don't vote republican.

Spoken like someone that has no ZERO research on illegal immigration and parrots far right talking points. Kudos.

Was that supposed to be an argument?

Just sounds like pouting to me.

Just pointing at that you clearly have no knowledge.........

Again with the compelling arguments. I'm baffled by your intellectual prowess.

@sn0man: I don't see why the Democrats would or should blink first either.

If they give in to Trump's temper tantrum over the wall now then it sets a bad precedent for rewarding childish behaviour. A couple of months down the line it could happen again with something else.

Majority of American don't want a wall, and the Democrats in part won back the house on the basis of opposing this.

If not a shutdown, then the debt limit. I think we're supposed to hit that again in Q2 2019.

You cannot have a discussion with someone getting their information from propaganda...........

@mattbbpl: Relax, Mexico will pay for it. ?

I would argue the majority of Americans want border security - even if that doesn't ultimately come in the form of a physical wall. That election was not a win for the democrats either or any indication that the "majority" of Americans support open borders. They picked up some house seats but couldn't flip the senate. They won't flip it next time either. People like to quote approval/disapproval polls but they aren't much of an indicator of anything other than what side of the bed a small, mainly liberally biased sample of people happened to wake up on that day. GWB wasn't all that popular either and he got a second term. As did Obama.

Again there is no incentive for Trump to cave on this. The Democrats had their opportunity when the President was willing to work with them but they blew it - they're more interested in "resisting Trump" than governing responsibly, rationally, or with a modicum of sanity. The shutdown hurts the left and, if the national emergency schtick doesn't fly then the left will eventually force the Democrats to cave - it's their base after all that relies heavily on government, for their job, their food stamp, their rent etc.

Wait until February.

They'll just be 9 meals away from anarchy, and that's 40 million Americans.

That's enough stupid out of you. Go find some crayons or something.

I suppose it's good then that there are 300 million other Americans who aren't reliant on government for their 3 squares a day - 100 million or so of whom are armed.

@sn0man: Sure, but the way Trump is currently linking any deal to a physical barrier on the border which there's no popular support for outside his base is a losing strategy. The fact that he's not even calling it a wall anymore shows that he's starting to wobble.

Republicans have the senate, Democrats have the house. Just seems like stalemate to me and a lackluster end to Trump's term, particularly with the government partially shut down. Even the senate isn't totally locked down either, you've got Mitt Romney in there who hates Trump plus a couple of Republicans up for 2020 reelection in blue states. With the way things are going at the moment I'd be surprised if Trump gets reelected, not even convinced that he wants to win again honestly.

Listen friend, Trump couldn't even get his wall when the GOP were in control of all three branches of government for two years. No chance he's getting it now. Whether we like or dislike Trump, it's clear that he isn't a popular president, certainly not enough to make something like this happen. His negotiation skills are overstated. He'll go down the national emergency route, which will get slapped down by the courts.

A lot of people are affected by this shutdown, 800,000 I've heard. I imagine that hurts workers all across the political divide. They should just pass a deal to reopen the government, then discuss border security, how to sensibly tackle immigration and drug smuggling, DACA etc afterwards. The wall is a waste of money, simply a vanity project.

Regardless of whether or not foreign aid is better for the country in the long term, in the short term (between now and the end of the 2020 election cycle), people are watching Democrats say that funding foreign causes are more important than funding domestic security. Many of these same people that are refusing to budge on border security today were calling for a barrier on the border less than a decade ago.

The vast majority of the people behind the Democrats’ refusal to give even a dollar to the wall weren’t going to vote for Trump anyway, but the fight probably isn’t going to help with people on the edge especially after the whole situation with California police officer and legal immigrant Ronil Singh being murdered by the man that was in the country illegally.

Me personally, I still think they should do the wall for DACA deal. It will get the people that keep demanding a wall happy while giving people that came through no fault of their own an opportunity to get legal and possibly become citizens in a few years. There’s no pathway to citizenship through an executive order (there was a loophole for DACA recepients to eventually become citizens if they could get into the military due to 8 USC 1440, but not everyone is able or willing to serve in the military), but there is through legislation.

This may be the Democrats’ best chance to get a pathway to citizenship through Congress while Trump is president as long as that is important enough to them to throw a bone at him. Getting those people a chance to be citizens should be more important than denying Trump a win.

If it goes to the courts he'll win. The Supreme Court is now under conservative control - and they'll support his authority as CIC.

@sn0man: I really don't see that happening considering how nationally unpopular a ruling like that would be with the 2020 elections in sight, not to mention how it would bring about a constitutional crisis.

It's not a straight forward legal option either as the POTUS would have to demonstrate the case for declaring a national emergency. The Democrats in the house would pass a disapproval resolution, and many members would sue him immediately.

Even just ignoring all that, I don't see Chief Justice Roberts going along with such a move.

Let Trump build his wall and when democrats win the presidency in 2024, they can tear it down.

@mandzilla: Popularity is irrelevant where the supreme court is concerned. They rule based on law - or at least they will again now that the age of liberal tyranny on that court is over. If you're referring to political popularity then it's my opinion that it would be widely supported by republicans and probably by a not insignificant number of fence sitters as well.

Democrats will resist, as democrats do.

I'm not sure how you think it would bring about a constitutional crisis. He was elected on a platform of border security - "building a wall". Remember, regardless of what the talking heads on the legacy media networks tell you, this is his "base";

If he does that, he'll set a precedent for future leaders to also do the same regardless of congress. Democrat or republican. It's as authoritarian as it gets. So called "Land of the free" wont be the same. Although, I admit. I don't think the future is a republican democracy, more like a totalitarian state like China.

@sn0man: Good point, popularity and indeed political popularity are independent (or at least should be) from the Supreme Court. Therefore it will not pass. Chief Justice 'We do not have Obama judges or Trump judges, Bush judges or Clinton judges' Roberts will vote it down.

Cue another temper tantrum from Trump, and eventually he'll have to try and find a face saving compromise. Constitutional crisis since it's not a national emergency the same way the trade deficit with Canada was not a national emergency. He doesn't have this power, wait and see.

Edit: Don't need to listen to any news commentary to see that appealing to a limited base isn't a reelection winning strategy. Doesn't have the popular vote, and demographics favour the Dems. Also Clinton was terrible.

@blackballs: This is one of the most clear cut reasons why it won't happen, neither party wants to set that precedent considering the opposition will be back in power someday. Same reason Republicans didn't use the 'nuclear option' in the senate for two whole years.

I wonder if this is Jackanucks alt account.

Such a waste of resources though.

@blackballs: the guy really has drunk the kool aid, even so far as to claim it’s mostly leftists and democrats who are affected by the shutdown. Just like the orange toddler said, without any support for such a claim whatsoever.

It’s scary people who make up whatever narrative they wish without any backing are allowed to vote.

Show me it isn't - if you think you can.

Walls work every where else, even Obama has a wall around his house. The wall issue is not about money it is about a campaign pledge. Neither side is going to give in on this issue.