Would you defend a neo nazi or racist from physical assault?

Thought this might be interesting to discuss with how current events have unfolded.

Here is the scenario. You are at a public space and a neo nazi or racist is speaking to a gathered crowd as you watch you notice a small group of people approach the speaker armed with weapons and are about to lay a beat down or kill this person. You have the means to prevent any escalation.

Do you jump in even though you disagree with the speakers ideology or let them get beaten?

I would jump in even though I despise everything they stand for. You don't physically attack someone for words instead you show how stupid and intolerant they are by destroying their arguments.

If you believe otherwise what are your reasons?

No, because that is what the police is for.

True but we have seen cops told to stand down or let's say for this scenario the cops can't get there in time.

Cops were not told to stand down. And no. If they can't defend themselves they shouldn't be provoking others.

So if you say something that I find provokes me and you can't defend yourself I'm allowed to beat the shit out of you?

Then the answer is still no. I'm not risking my life for a Nazi.

I can understand that.

I'm not standing there in a group in front of you with weapons....including guns.....and preaching violence and hate. Nor am I throwing things at you. What a simplistic and uninformed reading of my post.

I'd wait till things got a little too far and step in. Or probably not, better not risk my ass for a beating

@borninblood60: "You have the means to prevent any escalation."

If I have the means to do so, then yes, of course.

@LJS9502_basic: You're looking at it from the Charllotesville incident not the scenario I proposed. If they have weapons then they have come for a fight sure that's not what I was getting at. In the scenario the neo nazi/racist is unarmed and just spewing hateful nonsense but is about to be attacked. It's more of moral question like if a person you truly hated was about to lose their life could you put your feelings aside and save that person?

No way. If you show up looking to fight carrying a torch and a nazi flag, expect to get your ass handed to you.

Dude I'm not going to jump into the middle of a conflict. I'd call the police.

Might have the means but not the knowledge on how to do it. By the sound of it I understand it as threatening both sides to calm down. If one side wants violence, it will get it since it will start it.

@horgen: The reason I pointed that clauses out is because I'm assuming we have everything necessary to know the expected outcome thus making it exclusively a question of ethics rather than muddying it with questions of risk.

But you cannot eliminate risk. Not totally.

Yeah, this is a hypothetical, and I attempted to make it clear that that's how I was approaching the hypothetical scenario (which I also thought was the spirit of the OP). Apparently I wasn't clear in my post and I could have been wrong about the spirit of the OP, but it is what it is.

Hmm, it will depend on the situation, but of course i would jump in like with any other person who is in danger,

Just because you disagree with someone does not mean you have to hate them, in fact by showing to be better you may learn the person something.

Like the ex-nazi who was on CNN, who learned that his hate was unreasonable when he had a music store and had to relay on all people not just his neo-nazi friengs.

I understand your point but I'm saying it cannot exist in reality. Even one on one there is risk.

Yes I would, If I have the means to prevent any escalation as stated I would do it.

I find it unacceptable to use violence to shut people up, and making excuses one at a time, will leave less and less ground to stand on later down the road, when you will find yourself at the wrong end of the driving ideology of the day.

While I disagree wholeheartedly with what they say, the right to say it is sacred, if you begin making excuses, the western liberties will crumble further. Ideas and Ideals that I hold really high. Higher then political and religious agendas.

I will still hate such a speaker, but at least I will hate him/her while standing true to my own convictions.

Nobody deserves a beat down. This is America. I don't think I'd jump in a fight between a protester and counter protester, but I'd definitely do what I could to stop it without violence. Violence on violence isn't the answer. Arrests should be made. In a protest police are always close by and are equipped and legally able to handle the situation. If I absolutely felt like someone was going to be killed I might have a change of mind and step in, probably getting my ass beat down too.

*sigh*

assuming this is not a trick question, and that the cops are not there to help, and I have the means to do so, yes: I would protect the neo-Nazi from physical harm. They do have a right to their opinion, and violence begets violence. I am a firm believer in standing up for people's rights to say what they want to say, even if I don't believe in what they say (totally bastardizing that quote...).

I would not protect them from rebuttal, however, that is them getting their's. I might believe they're free to say what they want, but they're also free to live with the consequences, be it counter protest, the law, legal action, their companies firing them for being pricks, and so forth.

Also, there are plenty of examples of good Samaritans sticking up for distasteful people expressing distasteful opinions. Let's just look at Keshia Thomas from this KKK rally.

*heavy sigh*

Let's just say for the sake of argument there is no risk. You are Superman, and there are no cops, and you are feeling incredibly objective and Constitutionally-minded. You can simply split the fight up, not suffer legal consequences, not get hurt, not hurt anyone.

Just stop the fight/hurt...or let it happen.

@mrbojangles25:

*sigh* Hypothetically I deal in realism. Call the cops and be done with it. The only correct thing to do.

You can't reason with leftist dogma. I would definitely defend conservatives from speaking their mind but not in front of a confrontation on the streets.

And the people just love us for that reason!

I already hear it. "**** you pigs, you nazi defenders!"

I savor each and every tear, because on days like so, it's time and a half.

I'll call the cops and let them deal with it. I'm not putting myself at risk.

If there is one thing you should have learned in life by the time you're........... 12........ its that you can have a conversation with anyone about anything if both of you are willing to do so.

In your case i get the impression you have little to no interest in actually discussing things with people, you simply want to insult and make the other person seem as extreme as possible. Which seems like a bit of projection IMO, but whatever. But if you can follow these basics steps of human interaction, "reasoning" with people is not at all a difficult thing and you'd find their ideas are generally the last thing to affect this process.

Dude, enough with the pseudo intellectualism.

You're asking me if I saw a crowd of people beating up Neo Nazis- would I intervene? Probably not. 1) Call the Police 2) They are Nazis. I wouldnt feel badly for them.

@Stevo_the_gamer said:

@perfect_blue said:

No, because that is what the police is for.

And the people just love us for that reason!

I already hear it. "**** you pigs, you nazi defenders!"

I savor each and every tear, because on days like so, it's time and a half.

When BLM protested, the police shot tear gas.

When white supremacists protested while carrying guns and torches, what did the police do again? Oh right, nothing.

Were the white supremacists breaking windows and burning buildings?

They were too busy running over people.........

Funny.

Way to take a horrible event and make it into a spin for your side.

But again your side kill cops and smash up cities so i guess you have to deflect.

Got no dog in that fight so I'd say let the two duke it out and then prosecute the side that won lol

As always you miss the mark a question was ask and answered. Compare the number of incidents where people were run over by Nazi Cars which was despicable, to the number of people killed by far left groups which are also Despicable but get a pass because they are on the Left. By the way, in Charlotte, if the Democratic mayor and Democratic Governor, Had no instructed the police to stand down after they pushed the Nazi protesters into the counter protester's none of this would have occurred. The question has been raised the left wanted this to happen, so it did.

No, when BLM had unlawful assemblies - and refused to disperse after many lawful orders - tear gas was deployed. Edit: And like the other user said, let's not forget all the looting, rioting, bottle/rock throwing, torching (not carrying torches, but actually setting businesses and cars on fire), etc.

Counterprotesters killed someone in Charlottesville? Also either the mayor nor the governor had any say in how the police handled the matter. In fact: Mayor says Charlottesville police chief told him, ‘Stay out of my way’

@Stevo_the_gamer said:

@drunk_pi said:

When BLM protested, the police shot tear gas.

When white supremacists protested while carrying guns and torches, what did the police do again? Oh right, nothing.

No, when BLM had unlawful assemblies - and refused to disperse after many lawful orders - tear gas was deployed. Edit: And like the other user said, let's not forget all the looting, rioting, bottle/rock throwing, torching (not carrying torches, but actually setting businesses and cars on fire), etc.

Oh yeah, looks like that black lady is going to cause a ruckus.

@drunk_pi said:

Oh yeah, looks like that black lady is going to cause a ruckus.

Whelp, he did it! He found the one true finding of all findings. This image alone invalidates everything and anything. All hail the officer slide dance!

@Stevo_the_gamer said:

@drunk_pi said:

Oh yeah, looks like that black lady is going to cause a ruckus.

Whelp, he did it! He found the one true finding of all findings. This image alone invalidates everything and anything. All hail the officer slide dance!

When you treat everything as a joke, you know you can't make your point. ;)

@Stevo_the_gamer said:

@drunk_pi said:

When you treat everything as a joke, you know you can't make your point. ;)

Hey, you're the one that thinks that blady lady is dangerous but those white guys with rifles aren't. Sorry if you've resorted from using words to using memes to express.. whatever opinion you have.

I guess it would depend on whether my son was with me at the time; I don't risk my son's safety for anyone but if I were alone, I don't think I could stand by and watch someone getting beat up, regardless of them being a pile of excrement.

This might be the most entertaining strawman argument I've seen all week.

Step in and disturb a key moment in history when the cops stand down to prevent violence by letting violence? Well that's already kinda happened, but the right needs a good martyr and this would easily make it so.

But outside of sarcasm? Yeah, I would jump in to save a life. I'm not a human piece of garbage. I'm not capable of desensitizing myself enough to stand by when someone is crying out in pain and their life is in danger.

No, I would not.

Why? Because I don't want to get my ass beaten.

Self-preservation is a powerful thing. Never mind the fact that the person is a neo-nazi. If I think that me trying to save a person from bodily harm is going to result in me being harmed instead, there's a very good chance that I'll be like, "that sucks, but better you than me."

EDIT: anyway, in the COMPLETELY UNREALISTIC hypothetical scenario that involves me knowing that I can defuse the situation without bringing any risk onto myself, then of course I'd save the neo-nazi.

I'd just like to point out that this is way too much like "would you murder a neo-nazi if you were absolutely sure you'd get away with it?"

Point being...if we remove "bodily harm to myself" as a reason for not helping, then it basically just comes down to whether or not I want a neo-nazi to die simply because he/she is a neo-nazi. If the reason I'm not saving the neo-nazi from being beaten and/or killed isn't because it will harm me in some way, then that's essentially the same thing as me letting the neo-nazi die just because he/she is a neo-nazi. And at that point, hell...might as well just pull the trigger myself if I knew I could get away with it.

I will tell you how in a first world country, with any decent rules and not a half arsed racist community deals with this situation.

1) that nazi would get reported straight of the bet and picked up by the police

2) those armed people would be picked up also and arrested, as there is no way you can walk with weapons on the street that have no meaning other then to terrorize people with.

3) you stay out of the conflict as police take it over, because that's where police is for to maintain order.

But in america.

You probably, just fight eachother. Shoot eachother, and terrorize eachother. And start shouting all kinds of little kids slogans like "my group matters' while thinking you are the better person while actively hitting a person repeatingly in the head with your fist and calling yourself a hero.

about his picture:

What's the story behind this? did she got a warning to not come close? as i honestly don't see anybody else stand there. And if she got warned she kept on walking towards them?

What did you aspect to happen?

Or do people use this as somekind of white vs black type of deal in america? to drive there idioticy

People with spiteful ideas usually don't come from a place of love. I would help them. Maybe I'm insane but I think even the worst have the best intentions, they just don't know better (and can't do better given their situation).

I don't believe that anyone is ever trying to do worse than they ultimately can in life, given their situation. It wouldn't make sense.

Seeing as how Liberals think anyone who is not a Liberal Democrat is a neo-nazi or racist that would be a lot of people you would have to defend. Not the nazis or the Klan is a significant force in this country's politics, most of the people at Charlottesville had nothing to do with the few dozen nazis that showed up uninvited and it was the unlawful counter protestors from antifa and BLM who were bused in that started the violence while the police were ordered to stand down something there should be investigation for, stop watching fake news and maybe you wont get so butthurt about old statues.