I've lost some respect for the Patriots now.

I'm sorry - videotaping defensive signals and using it to give your offense an edge is HANDS DOWN the highest level of cheating.

In Baseball, players can police it themselves and their only punishment is getting tossed from the game they're in.

In Football, players will get suspended a couple games and thousands of dollars if they police it themselves.

The integirty of the game of Pro-football is in question when a team succeeds at the Patriots' level and then we learn they're using very sophisticated CHEATING methods.

There's no comparison. What the Patriots did is a GROSS violation of sportsmanship AND the NFL rules.

[QUOTE="Ngamer05"]

And yet people call the Patriots a classy organization :lol:

dkhw

Every nfl teams do it including your Panthers. They just haven't been caught.

exactly. its such ground breaking news only because its the pats, and they have the ability to destroy any team this year. as for harrison, he used it to heal from injury, wasn't currently on them, and still was man enough to admit it, about 70% of the nfl uses hgh. but back to the "spying" thing, the pats are 100% not the only one doing this, they are just being made a scapegoat because they are so stacked this year which isn't fair.

[QUOTE="dkhw"][QUOTE="Ngamer05"]

And yet people call the Patriots a classy organization :lol:

chriscbeck05

Every nfl teams do it including your Panthers. They just haven't been caught.

exactly. its such ground breaking news only because its the pats, and they have the ability to destroy any team this year. as for harrison, he used it to heal from injury, wasn't currently on them, and still was man enough to admit it, about 70% of the nfl uses hgh. but back to the "spying" thing, the pats are 100% not the only one doing this, they are just being made a scapegoat because they are so stacked this year which isn't fair.

If you've got some links to proof that other teams are doing it let's see them.

you guys should realise more teams do this and not just the pats, not to mention the fact that cheating is prevalent in all sports, so don't be suprised next time. rabidwolf86

Next time it happens it will be the Chargers and the 49ers getting busted.;)

I would really like to see some proof that other NFL teams are cheating the way the Pats are, quit trying to find ways to back out of it, the Pats cheated, they deserved to be punished, end of story.goodlay

Same here. Lots of talk, nobody backing it up. I wouldn't be surprised but lets see some proof.

Pats got caught twice. Nobody else that I'm aware of have been nabbed.

I'm sorry - videotaping defensive signals and using it to give your offense an edge is HANDS DOWN the highest level of cheating.

In Baseball, players can police it themselves and their only punishment is getting tossed from the game they're in.

In Football, players will get suspended a couple games and thousands of dollars if they police it themselves.

The integirty of the game of Pro-football is in question when a team succeeds at the Patriots' level and then we learn they're using very sophisticated CHEATING methods.

There's no comparison. What the Patriots did is a GROSS violation of sportsmanship AND the NFL rules.

Netherscourge

Again, HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY CHEATED IN PREVIOUS GAMES??? Give me proof. Until then stop offering up ridiculous statements on baseless assumptions. Also, the Jets game was nearly untainted. The guy got caught in the first quarter.

[QUOTE="Netherscourge"]

I'm sorry - videotaping defensive signals and using it to give your offense an edge is HANDS DOWN the highest level of cheating.

In Baseball, players can police it themselves and their only punishment is getting tossed from the game they're in.

In Football, players will get suspended a couple games and thousands of dollars if they police it themselves.

The integirty of the game of Pro-football is in question when a team succeeds at the Patriots' level and then we learn they're using very sophisticated CHEATING methods.

There's no comparison. What the Patriots did is a GROSS violation of sportsmanship AND the NFL rules.

dkhw

Again, HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY CHEATED IN PREVIOUS GAMES??? Give me proof. Until then stop offering up ridiculous statements on baseless assumptions. Also, the Jets game was nearly untainted. The guy got caught in the first quarter.

I believe they were doing the same thing against Green Bay a while back

Excerpt from an article

Bob Harlan, chairman of the Green Bay Packers, told ESPN that his team's security guards identified Estrella as the same cameraman who was removed from the sidelines of a game in November against the Patriots at Green Bay's Lambeau Field. The Patriots won that game, 35-0.

ALL NFL teams behave in this manner...the Pats were the only organization to get caught doing it...doesn't matter anyway...Bill gettingsuspended for a game and a draft pick is nothin for us...we'll eat it and still win at the Super Bowl!!! GO PATS!!! GO SOX...GO CELTICS!!!

okay the lack of outrage by any nfl players, teams, coaches. anything to get the edge be it videotaping/taking HGH, etc. it happens in all sports.rabidwolf86

Thank you...

[QUOTE="rabidwolf86"]okay the lack of outrage by any nfl players, teams, coaches. anything to get the edge be it videotaping/taking HGH, etc. it happens in all sports.tryfe_lyn

Thank you...

Sure...

I wouldn't be surprised but all the "everyone does it" stuff wears thin when nobody can back it up. If someone esle does it I'd be happy to to see them punished but I haven't seen anyone back that claim up yet.

As for other players reaction since when have other players or coaches in the same league piled on another player or coach that is in trouble?

I was actually surprised by some players reactions were as strong as they were. Farve outright said it was cheating (funny joke in there) so did several other players (LT went a little crazy as usual) and Pats players have said they're embarrassed by their teams conduct.

I found this hilarious

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EU1O-hGxgg

ALL NFL teams behave in this manner...the Pats were the only organization to get caught doing it...doesn't matter anyway...Bill gettingsuspended for a game and a draft pick is nothin for us...we'll eat it and still win at the Super Bowl!!! GO PATS!!! GO SOX...GO CELTICS!!!

tryfe_lyn

Want to provide some proof that all of them do? The Pats have been suspected several times, and now they have concrete proof, of course I wouldn't expect you to admit that your team cheats.

I found this hilarious

shooks20

wasnt there something like this with the dolphins like a year or two ago. i think pats got the phins signals or something. dont quote me just look it up if your curious. xbox360isgr8t

No it was the other way around... Pats were saying the phins were spying on them. Secondly honestly if you guys sit here and actually believe that when this all comes down to it, that by spying for signs got them three superbowls you know nothing about football. I'm not saying what they did was right, because it was not right it was against the rules. You could do the same thing with binoculars but you can't use a camera. The bottom line is you still have to throw the ball, you still have to run, tackle, and read defenses even with that evidence.

The main thing is with all the video tape that is made available to the coaches in the NFL, they know what the oppenet is you already going to do. Its matter of stopping it. It is mind boggling that Belichick did any of this or agreed to allow it is pretty stupid, considering the camera man is ON THE FIELD?!?! I honestly believe it hurts them a little bit but in the end it will only help the PATS because they are all about the respect factor, and if don't show them that it only gives them more of a drive on Sunday to play harder and tougher. If you think for one minute that the Pats are going to take it lightly that they are only good because of tapes you have another thing coming. Everytime someone puts them down they win.

[QUOTE="tryfe_lyn"]

ALL NFL teams behave in this manner...the Pats were the only organization to get caught doing it...doesn't matter anyway...Bill gettingsuspended for a game and a draft pick is nothin for us...we'll eat it and still win at the Super Bowl!!! GO PATS!!! GO SOX...GO CELTICS!!!

goodlay

Want to provide some proof that all of them do? The Pats have been suspected several times, and now they have concrete proof, of course I wouldn't expect you to admit that your team cheats.

You know why Greenbay never did anything to New England when they suspected them of spying with a camera? Because they were doing the same exact thing so they didnt say crap.

1. Belichik should be banned from the NFL. The so-called "hoodie-genius" is just a cheating fraud. And anyone else associated with the cheating should be banned with him.

2. The Patriots should lose their entire list of First Day's draft picks in 2008.

3. The NFL should overturn the Jet's game, last year's Packers game and all three Superbowls. And Rescind Brady's and Branch's MVPs. The Rams, Panthers and Eagles should be named Superbowl Champions for their respective years - the Patriots probably cheated in all those games too.

4. The team should be renamed the New England Cheaters. To refer to them as Patriots is a disgrace to our whole country.

Netherscourge

Is it cheating when a team signs a player just released from a team they're about to play?

okay the lack of outrage by any nfl players, teams, coaches. anything to get the edge be it videotaping/taking HGH, etc. it happens in all sports.rabidwolf86

HUH? I've seen players from the Chargers, Packers, Eagles andBengals talking about it on ESPN all day long today. Brett Favre even said it's a advantage to videotape signals.

And the MLB is looking to make League-Wide HGH testing by next season.

I'd say there's plenty of outrage over this crap...

Is it cheating when a team signs a player just released from a team they're about to play?

Eman5805

Here's what I think the Pats should do to point out how silly this whole thing is. Put a lifeguard chair on the sidelines for the San Diego game. Sit the same employee who used the camera in the chair, and give him binoculars and a notebook. Have him watch the defensive coaches and steal as many signs as he can. Scribble furiously on the notebook every few plays and rip out a page and run it down to the coaches.

Reason? That would be completely legal according to the NFL. Now I am aNew England fan, but I am NOT a New England apologist. It was incredibly stupid to steal signs using a specifcally outlawed method to do so. They got caught breaking the rules, and should accept anything Goodell hands out. No argument from me there. Break the rules, pay the penalty. Any New England fan that won't admit that is being a little silly.

However, it's clear from all this overreaction that everyone has been waiting for anything to pile on Belichick. I've always said, if he wasn't our coach, I'd be so annoyed by him. He irks everyone on purpose...listing Brady as questionable every week, giving one word answers and always playing the "one game at a time" card, etc. I think the thought process is, if you're thinking about all these annoying things I do, you aren't thinking about how to beat us next week.

You must all realize that New England will continue to steal your team's signs...and if your team is smart enough, they will be stealing ours right back, and doing everything they can to hide their signals so we can steal them. They just won't use video camera's anymore. So, Jets defensive coaches, stop with the obvious signs because all the other teams have probably been stealing them as well, using other methods. Who's monitoring the team employees up in the skyboxes?? What happened last year when The Pats were up by a large margin to the Colts...and after the half the Colts suddenly looked like they knew where every Pats player would be? Could they have stolen signs? Sure, and if they did it without a video camera, they deserved to win.

To be honest,the Patriots organization should beway more embarassed by Rodney Harrison using HGH. The illegal substance thing is way more harmful to the sport than stealing signs...a practice that every team does and will continue to do, WITHOUT being stupid enough to use a camera to do it.

[QUOTE="rabidwolf86"]okay the lack of outrage by any nfl players, teams, coaches. anything to get the edge be it videotaping/taking HGH, etc. it happens in all sports.Netherscourge

HUH? I've seen players from the Chargers, Packers, Eagles andBengals talking about it on ESPN all day long today. Brett Favre even said it's a advantage to videotape signals.

And the MLB is looking to make League-Wide HGH testing by next season.

I'd say there's plenty of outrage over this crap...

I became a Pat's fan the moment they grabbed Moss (I am from NY but I liked the NFL as a whole). But to hear about this is a bit frustrating.

What is the point of studying film?

What was the point for them to cheat against out of all teams, the NY Jets? It doesn't matter who they were playing, I don't like cheaters. There's no integrity left if all the teams use tactics to cheat.

[QUOTE="tryfe_lyn"]

ALL NFL teams behave in this manner...the Pats were the only organization to get caught doing it...doesn't matter anyway...Bill gettingsuspended for a game and a draft pick is nothin for us...we'll eat it and still win at the Super Bowl!!! GO PATS!!! GO SOX...GO CELTICS!!!

goodlay

Want to provide some proof that all of them do? The Pats have been suspected several times, and now they have concrete proof, of course I wouldn't expect you to admit that your team cheats.

several times? there was only once with green bay... Tell me other ones. I dare you.

*

Give the Patriots one of those for their past6 seasons.

I became a Pat's fan the moment they grabbed Moss (I am from NY but I liked the NFL as a whole). But to hear about this is a bit frustrating.

What is the point of studying film?

What was the point for them to cheat against out of all teams, the NY Jets? It doesn't matter who they were playing, I don't like cheaters. There's no integrity left if all the teams use tactics to cheat.

mrvic87

Well cheating against the Jets would make sense since they are the other playoff team of the AFC East, making them the Pats toughest rival.

But seriously, with Moss and Stallworth as your recievers, why the hell do you need to spy on the other teams defense? Idiots.

[QUOTE="mrvic87"]

I became a Pat's fan the moment they grabbed Moss (I am from NY but I liked the NFL as a whole). But to hear about this is a bit frustrating.

What is the point of studying film?

What was the point for them to cheat against out of all teams, the NY Jets? It doesn't matter who they were playing, I don't like cheaters. There's no integrity left if all the teams use tactics to cheat.

Rage11

Well cheating against the Jets would make sense since they are the other playoff team of the AFC East, making them the Pats toughest rival.

But seriously, with Moss and Stallworth as your recievers, why the hell do you need to spy on the other teams defense? Idiots.

The only reason I can think of is intentional on Belichick's part, I mean he clearly doesn't like Mangini.

[QUOTE="goodlay"][QUOTE="tryfe_lyn"]

ALL NFL teams behave in this manner...the Pats were the only organization to get caught doing it...doesn't matter anyway...Bill gettingsuspended for a game and a draft pick is nothin for us...we'll eat it and still win at the Super Bowl!!! GO PATS!!! GO SOX...GO CELTICS!!!

dkhw

Want to provide some proof that all of them do? The Pats have been suspected several times, and now they have concrete proof, of course I wouldn't expect you to admit that your team cheats.

several times? there was only once with green bay... Tell me other ones. I dare you.

[QUOTE="Netherscourge"]

[QUOTE="rabidwolf86"]okay the lack of outrage by any nfl players, teams, coaches. anything to get the edge be it videotaping/taking HGH, etc. it happens in all sports.rabidwolf86

HUH? I've seen players from the Chargers, Packers, Eagles andBengals talking about it on ESPN all day long today. Brett Favre even said it's a advantage to videotape signals.

And the MLB is looking to make League-Wide HGH testing by next season.

I'd say there's plenty of outrage over this crap...

[QUOTE="goodlay"][QUOTE="tryfe_lyn"]

ALL NFL teams behave in this manner...the Pats were the only organization to get caught doing it...doesn't matter anyway...Bill gettingsuspended for a game and a draft pick is nothin for us...we'll eat it and still win at the Super Bowl!!! GO PATS!!! GO SOX...GO CELTICS!!!

dkhw

Want to provide some proof that all of them do? The Pats have been suspected several times, and now they have concrete proof, of course I wouldn't expect you to admit that your team cheats.

several times? there was only once with green bay... Tell me other ones. I dare you.

Here you go. Dare accepted

Last year the Lions played the Patriots in Foxboro. At one point their coach, Rod Marinelli, phoned up to the press box, "There's a camera pointed right at our defensive coach making his calls. Is that allowed?" A Lions' employee called the NFL booth. No, it certainly was not. So the videotaper was stopped. Then after a while he began again. The same process was repeated and he was asked to stop again. Now that's dedication.

"At one point we had a good drive going against the Patriots," said one Lion who doesn't want his name involved in this mess, but was willing to talk about it. "Mike Martz really had 'em going. They were getting fouled up, lining up wrong, we were moving the ball. Then boom, the headset from the sidelines to the coaches' booth goes out.

"Next possession we were moving the ball again and the same thing happened. You know it only takes two or three plays to mess up a drive."

Matt Millen, the Lions' GM, says he was talking to another team's head coach at the league meetings. He started telling him the story.

"Yeah, I know," the coach said. "Headset went out. It happened to me in Foxboro, too."

Marinelli was the defensive line coach in Tampa Bay when the Bucs beat the Patriots in the 2000 regular season opener and did a good job controlling New England's offense. After the game the Patriots' offensive coach, Charlie Weis, was overheard congratulating the Bucs' defensive coordinator, Monte Kiffin.

"We knew all your calls, and you still stopped us," Weis said. "I can't believe it."

He couldn't believe it because the Patriots had videotaped all of the defensive signals in their last preseason game, which was against the Bucs.

Enjoy.

[QUOTE="dkhw"][QUOTE="goodlay"][QUOTE="tryfe_lyn"]

ALL NFL teams behave in this manner...the Pats were the only organization to get caught doing it...doesn't matter anyway...Bill gettingsuspended for a game and a draft pick is nothin for us...we'll eat it and still win at the Super Bowl!!! GO PATS!!! GO SOX...GO CELTICS!!!

manningbowl135

Want to provide some proof that all of them do? The Pats have been suspected several times, and now they have concrete proof, of course I wouldn't expect you to admit that your team cheats.

several times? there was only once with green bay... Tell me other ones. I dare you.

Here you go. Dare accepted

Last year the Lions played the Patriots in Foxboro. At one point their coach, Rod Marinelli, phoned up to the press box, "There's a camera pointed right at our defensive coach making his calls. Is that allowed?" A Lions' employee called the NFL booth. No, it certainly was not. So the videotaper was stopped. Then after a while he began again. The same process was repeated and he was asked to stop again. Now that's dedication.

"At one point we had a good drive going against the Patriots," said one Lion who doesn't want his name involved in this mess, but was willing to talk about it. "Mike Martz really had 'em going. They were getting fouled up, lining up wrong, we were moving the ball. Then boom, the headset from the sidelines to the coaches' booth goes out.

"Next possession we were moving the ball again and the same thing happened. You know it only takes two or three plays to mess up a drive."

Matt Millen, the Lions' GM, says he was talking to another team's head coach at the league meetings. He started telling him the story.

"Yeah, I know," the coach said. "Headset went out. It happened to me in Foxboro, too."

Marinelli was the defensive line coach in Tampa Bay when the Bucs beat the Patriots in the 2000 regular season opener and did a good job controlling New England's offense. After the game the Patriots' offensive coach, Charlie Weis, was overheard congratulating the Bucs' defensive coordinator, Monte Kiffin.

"We knew all your calls, and you still stopped us," Weis said. "I can't believe it."

He couldn't believe it because the Patriots had videotaped all of the defensive signals in their last preseason game, which was against the Bucs.

Enjoy.

[QUOTE="manningbowl135"][QUOTE="dkhw"][QUOTE="goodlay"][QUOTE="tryfe_lyn"]

ALL NFL teams behave in this manner...the Pats were the only organization to get caught doing it...doesn't matter anyway...Bill gettingsuspended for a game and a draft pick is nothin for us...we'll eat it and still win at the Super Bowl!!! GO PATS!!! GO SOX...GO CELTICS!!!

bunchofpixels

Want to provide some proof that all of them do? The Pats have been suspected several times, and now they have concrete proof, of course I wouldn't expect you to admit that your team cheats.

several times? there was only once with green bay... Tell me other ones. I dare you.

Here you go. Dare accepted

Last year the Lions played the Patriots in Foxboro. At one point their coach, Rod Marinelli, phoned up to the press box, "There's a camera pointed right at our defensive coach making his calls. Is that allowed?" A Lions' employee called the NFL booth. No, it certainly was not. So the videotaper was stopped. Then after a while he began again. The same process was repeated and he was asked to stop again. Now that's dedication.

"At one point we had a good drive going against the Patriots," said one Lion who doesn't want his name involved in this mess, but was willing to talk about it. "Mike Martz really had 'em going. They were getting fouled up, lining up wrong, we were moving the ball. Then boom, the headset from the sidelines to the coaches' booth goes out.

"Next possession we were moving the ball again and the same thing happened. You know it only takes two or three plays to mess up a drive."

Matt Millen, the Lions' GM, says he was talking to another team's head coach at the league meetings. He started telling him the story.

"Yeah, I know," the coach said. "Headset went out. It happened to me in Foxboro, too."

Marinelli was the defensive line coach in Tampa Bay when the Bucs beat the Patriots in the 2000 regular season opener and did a good job controlling New England's offense. After the game the Patriots' offensive coach, Charlie Weis, was overheard congratulating the Bucs' defensive coordinator, Monte Kiffin.

"We knew all your calls, and you still stopped us," Weis said. "I can't believe it."

He couldn't believe it because the Patriots had videotaped all of the defensive signals in their last preseason game, which was against the Bucs.

Enjoy.

Dude just face the facts that what they did was wrong and they don't deserve any wins. What they did agianst the Lions was just a dirty move. I mean they have the best players money could buy and still have to cheat... what a pathetic organization, they're about as low if not lower on my list of scum than the Bengals players are.

Dude just face the facts that what they did was wrong and they don't deserve any wins. What they did agianst the Lions was just a dirty move. I mean they have the best players money could buy and still have to cheat... what a pathetic organization, they're about as low if not lower on my list of scum than the Bengals players are.

zarfbloot

The Patriots are right now the lowest organization in sports. BTW, bunchofpixels, great, blind fanboyism. Touche.manningbowl135