Kobe Bryant > Micheal Jordan

[QUOTE="Jinroh_basic"][QUOTE="andyboiii"]

[QUOTE="-Halftime-"]No. He's probly the closest thing, though.dru26

exactly

i think he is VERY close and have years to come to prove himself. at 29, the present Kobe matches, if not surpasses, Jordan of the same age in many respects, most notably the number of championship titles. on the court, Kobe is responsible for some of the most difficult shots and the most entertaining game dunks in the past 10 years, making him the deadliest SG of this era, and is easily comparable to MJ in terms of scoring capabilities. defensive capabilities is probably Kobe's inferiority compared to MJ -- IF you can call an 8 time all defensive selection that ;)

to say that Kobe Bryant > Michael Jordan is actually not as far fetched as many die hard MJ worshippers think. these folks claim that Kobe is a ball-hogger who can't do anything on his own, while these claims could be easily applied to Jordan, who was just another A list players before Scottie Pippen joined the Bulls. as a matter of fact, the so called "greatest player of all time" probably got more help from teammates than other championship regulars. that nobody realizes this never failed to astonished me.

actually, it's not just Pippen and Co. it's one of the 50 greatest players in history Scottie Pippen + defense mammoth Dennis Rodman + the absolute best 3 pointer in the league Steve Kerr + the then best European player Tony Kukoc. this combination, ALONE, could have easily made a highlight team to be reckoned with in any context.

i'm not saying MJ is a bust, hell no. he's up there among the greatest players ever played in the league. but what's with all the mindless worshipping when data, facts and a small dose of sensibility would instantly demystify his godly status? and in fact, it's not just Kobe -- with quite a number of budding young stars easily outshining MJ at the same age, it is safe to say that MJ is NOT the greatest player of all time.

Like I said before, I'll say it again.

This is the bottom line: the impact Jordan had on the game is so gigantically gargantumly huge that no one will be able to follow, match or surpass it. Even if Kobe or LeBron gets better numbers, they will never match or surpass Jordan's impact on the game of b-ball. NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i swear kobe is just a better player to me he has a shot anywhere on the court and he can take anyone off the dribble plus he can play good defense. i think he is better then micheal jordan.-Renegade

[QUOTE="dru26"][QUOTE="Jinroh_basic"][QUOTE="andyboiii"]

[QUOTE="-Halftime-"]No. He's probly the closest thing, though.Jinroh_basic

exactly

i think he is VERY close and have years to come to prove himself. at 29, the present Kobe matches, if not surpasses, Jordan of the same age in many respects, most notably the number of championship titles. on the court, Kobe is responsible for some of the most difficult shots and the most entertaining game dunks in the past 10 years, making him the deadliest SG of this era, and is easily comparable to MJ in terms of scoring capabilities. defensive capabilities is probably Kobe's inferiority compared to MJ -- IF you can call an 8 time all defensive selection that ;)

to say that Kobe Bryant > Michael Jordan is actually not as far fetched as many die hard MJ worshippers think. these folks claim that Kobe is a ball-hogger who can't do anything on his own, while these claims could be easily applied to Jordan, who was just another A list players before Scottie Pippen joined the Bulls. as a matter of fact, the so called "greatest player of all time" probably got more help from teammates than other championship regulars. that nobody realizes this never failed to astonished me.

actually, it's not just Pippen and Co. it's one of the 50 greatest players in history Scottie Pippen + defense mammoth Dennis Rodman + the absolute best 3 pointer in the league Steve Kerr + the then best European player Tony Kukoc. this combination, ALONE, could have easily made a highlight team to be reckoned with in any context.

i'm not saying MJ is a bust, hell no. he's up there among the greatest players ever played in the league. but what's with all the mindless worshipping when data, facts and a small dose of sensibility would instantly demystify his godly status? and in fact, it's not just Kobe -- with quite a number of budding young stars easily outshining MJ at the same age, it is safe to say that MJ is NOT the greatest player of all time.

First of all all those things about kukoc, pippen, kerr , rodman, etc. that was for his 2nd 3-peat. Only pippen of those names was on his first 3-peat. The guy won with pretty much 2 different rosters. And secondly i get so tired of people talking about what "so and so" is doing at the same age that michael was. Are you guys that blind or that stupid? You can't compare the ages of people like kobe or lebron to Michael's age because HE WENT TO COLLEGE FOR 3 YEARS. So of course by "so and so's age" he has done this or that. You CAN'T COMPARE AGE. You can compare years in the league, but not age. And one final thing, if Jordan isn't the best player ever, than who is? Kobe? You are going to compare a guy who has been in the league for just over a decade to a player who played a full career. Kobe? A guy who only has 3 rings (which were as shaq's sidekick, not the main guy) to a guy who has 6. Kobe? A guy who just got his first MVP to a guy who has 5. Do i need to continue. Can Kobe surpass Jordan's numbers? Sure, but not at the age of 30. You all need to get off his jock, and give it some time. Start this topic up ten years from now and maybe it will be more relevant.

The initial post said Kobe is a "better player" than MJ. That doesn't mean Kobe will accomplish as much as MJ. Every time someone gives the opinion that Kobe is a better player than MJ , here come the Jordan Jockers running down MJ's list of accomplishments.

Its TWO different things. Being a better player doesn't mean you will necessarily accomplish as much as the other guy. So much more than being a great player figures in to that(coach, team needs, era, rules, role players, chemistry, competition.....etc). There are plenty of examples of players being more skilled than others but not accomplishing as much.

Having said that, and keeping with the essence of my mans initial statement, Kobe is just as skilled or more so than MJ was. Kobe would get the edge on the jump shot with his added long range ability, MJ would get the edge on defense(even though that edge is lessened by the fact that MJ could "hand check", yeah thats right..you take away from Kobe because he can't be hand-checked on offense, so give Kobe credit because he can't hand check on defense but still is pretty good at it). Also some act as if dpoty was a life time achievement award for MJ, it wasn't. He won it once, but was not always considered a great man/man defender.

The rest of Kobe and MJ's skills are just about even. Giving either of them the edge on skill-set is not ridiculous.

NOOO jordan 6 titles mvps !!! come on kobe at 3 with 1 mvpkemar7856

As Mont13 clarified just because Kobe hasn't accomplished as much as MJ doesn't mean he isn't a better player. That's my opinion anyway.

The initial post said Kobe is a "better player" than MJ. That doesn't mean Kobe will accomplish as much as MJ. Every time someone gives the opinion that Kobe is a better player than MJ , here come the Jordan Jockers running down MJ's list of accomplishments.

Its TWO different things. Being a better player doesn't mean you will necessarily accomplish as much as the other guy. So much more than being a great player figures in to that(coach, team needs, era, rules, role players, chemistry, competition.....etc). There are plenty of examples of players being more skilled than others but not accomplishing as much.

Having said that, and keeping with the essence of my mans initial statement, Kobe is just as skilled or more so than MJ was. Kobe would get the edge on the jump shot with his added long range ability, MJ would get the edge on defense(even though that edge is lessened by the fact that MJ could "hand check", yeah thats right..you take away from Kobe because he can't be hand-checked on offense, so give Kobe credit because he can't hand check on defense but still is pretty good at it). Also some act as if dpoty was a life time achievement award for MJ, it wasn't. He won it once, but was not always considered a great man/man defender.

The rest of Kobe and MJ's skills are just about even. Giving either of them the edge on skill-set is not ridiculous.

mont13

Offensively, maybe. But MJ wins on defense, so that propels him above Kobe.

MJ is considered as the greatest defensive player ever played the game unanimously by the 50 greatest players of all-time. Jerry West, Isiah Thomas, Russel, Shaq, Cousy all say Jordan is the best defensive player they've seen.

Jerry West thinks MJ's defense was far more impressive then his offense.

[QUOTE="mont13"]

The initial post said Kobe is a "better player" than MJ. That doesn't mean Kobe will accomplish as much as MJ. Every time someone gives the opinion that Kobe is a better player than MJ , here come the Jordan Jockers running down MJ's list of accomplishments.

Its TWO different things. Being a better player doesn't mean you will necessarily accomplish as much as the other guy. So much more than being a great player figures in to that(coach, team needs, era, rules, role players, chemistry, competition.....etc). There are plenty of examples of players being more skilled than others but not accomplishing as much.

Having said that, and keeping with the essence of my mans initial statement, Kobe is just as skilled or more so than MJ was. Kobe would get the edge on the jump shot with his added long range ability, MJ would get the edge on defense(even though that edge is lessened by the fact that MJ could "hand check", yeah thats right..you take away from Kobe because he can't be hand-checked on offense, so give Kobe credit because he can't hand check on defense but still is pretty good at it). Also some act as if dpoty was a life time achievement award for MJ, it wasn't. He won it once, but was not always considered a great man/man defender.

The rest of Kobe and MJ's skills are just about even. Giving either of them the edge on skill-set is not ridiculous.

ASK_Story

Offensively, maybe. But MJ wins on defense, so that propels him above Kobe.

MJ is considered as the greatest defensive player ever played the game unanimously by the 50 greatest players of all-time. Jerry West, Isiah Thomas, Russel, Shaq, Cousy all say Jordan is the best defensive player they've seen.

Jerry West thinks MJ's defense was far more impressive then his offense.

i'm sorry, but is that even true? it sounds almost as incredible as Hulk itself. i'm not saying you're making it up....but wait, yea....i think you're making it up. :(

First of all all those things about kukoc, pippen, kerr , rodman, etc. that was for his 2nd 3-peat. Only pippen of those names was on his first 3-peat. The guy won with pretty much 2 different rosters. And secondly i get so tired of people talking about what "so and so" is doing at the same age that michael was. Are you guys that blind or that stupid? You can't compare the ages of people like kobe or lebron to Michael's age because HE WENT TO COLLEGE FOR 3 YEARS. So of course by "so and so's age" he has done this or that. You CAN'T COMPARE AGE. You can compare years in the league, but not age. And one final thing, if Jordan isn't the best player ever, than who is? Kobe? You are going to compare a guy who has been in the league for just over a decade to a player who played a full career. Kobe? A guy who only has 3 rings (which were as shaq's sidekick, not the main guy) to a guy who has 6. Kobe? A guy who just got his first MVP to a guy who has 5. Do i need to continue. Can Kobe surpass Jordan's numbers? Sure, but not at the age of 30. You all need to get off his jock, and give it some time. Start this topic up ten years from now and maybe it will be more relevant.

i'm not sure what do you mean by "then who", since any fan who watch NBA long enough could easily name half a dozen HOFers that left a legacy just as rich as Jordan did -- LET ALONE the emerging young stars. "can Kobe surpass Jordan's number".....i don't even know what you're trying to point out, since Kobe holds a long list of his own records, a list which is bound to get longer.

i am comparing a veteran and phenomenal SG to another, and in my opinion it's a perfectly logical comparison. since players of the same position often retire around a certain age, i don't see how comparing the calibre of 2 players at the same age is "blind or stupid". when Kobe retires, you can talk about career all you want -- right now he's blasting his way to become one of the greatest players ever, along side with MJ and others, and just becoz you can't see that doesn't mean other people are ignorant as well.

"Offensively, maybe but MJ wins on defense, so that propels him above Kobe."

Ok, give MJ the edge on defense. In any given game I'll take Kobe on offense. Kobe is a better scorer than MJ. MJ's biggest offensive games have been in the 60's and most of those were in o.t., one was in double o.t. Kobe got 81 in regulation!, 62 in 3 quaters!, 52 in a half! With his added 3pt ability Kobe is a better scorer than MJ. Edge to Kobe on offense, so they are about even to me, and in Kobe you still get a really good defender.

Of course MJ has a higher average scoring average than Kobe, he came on to a sad team where he had the green light from day 1, people talk about Jordans scoring records but fail to mention that he has the highest career fga average since Elgin Baylor. The lakers didn't need to play Kobe, a young teenaged rookie, when they had good, established veterans ahead of him. Plus the offense was geared towards Shaq. Thats one reason why you can't accurately compare career numbers, their teams had different needs.

Again, skill for skill, with all things considerd, MJ and Kobe are about even, with both being better than the other in certain areas.

[QUOTE="kemar7856"]NOOO jordan 6 titles mvps !!! come on kobe at 3 with 1 mvp-Renegade

As Mont13 clarified just because Kobe hasn't accomplished as much as MJ doesn't mean he isn't a better player. That's my opinion anyway.

Let us be reminded of The artistry of Michael Jordan. Some rare footage in there.msjr78

Lets be reminded that they are virtually the same player.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=74zX6R2qbrs&feature=related

"True, but it certainly is a factor"

There are several "factors" involved in accomplishments. For example if Kobe was not on a team with Shaq early on Kobe would most likely have more scoring titles. If MJ had to share the ball with a dominant center like Shaq he would most likely have less scoring titles. If Kobe had come on to a sad team from the start he would have more career points. If MJ had entered the league the same time as Bird and Magic he would have less rings...if, if, if.......thats why its impossible to compare "accomplishments".

The only somewhat fair comparison of Kobe and MJ is on basketball skill level.

Speaking of accomplishments, Kobe finaly gets his "own team" and in the 4th year it looks like he is headed for the finals. Don't know if they will win, but to get there after all the players they lost (much more than just Shaq), in 4 years, is a great accomplishment for the Kobe led Lakers.

[QUOTE="-Renegade"]i swear kobe is just a better player to me he has a shot anywhere on the court and he can take anyone off the dribble plus he can play good defense. i think he is better then micheal jordan.XNCgamer

You say he can shoot anywhere on the court (So can MJ) take anyone off the dribble (So can MJ) and is a good defensive player (MJ was a GREAT defensive player). He could lock anyone down. I respect your opinion, but you have to base it off of something different than those, cause they don't cut it.

That's exactly what I thought when I read that.

In Kobe's prime, he does his thing of course but is still just arguably better, more important or more successful with his team than other premiere players like LeBron, Duncan, Shaq, Wade, Nash and now Paul.

In MJ's prime, he did his thing and OWNED the NBA, even in comparison to other prime superstars like Barkley, Stockton, Ewing, Hill and Olajuwon. Jordan was the best, the most complete, and greatest competitor in the league without argument and he had a knack for always living up to the expectations placed upon him and then some as his career went on.

Not that this is any kind of definitive argument, but for any younger folks who were not lucky enough experience the NBA during MJ's prime like they do now this is a big reason why Kobe will probably never touch Jordan in terms of GOAT status. You can examine 3pt shooting percentages and other comparable stats and skills all you want, many still percieve Kobe as simply one of a handful of elite players in the game today. Jordan was on another level when there were still plenty of elites to go around, and that makes a big difference in perception.

By saying this you're essentially saying Kobe is the greatest player of all time. Not only is he not the greatest player of all time, he's not even the greatest Laker of all time. There are at least 4 Lakers who were better than him (Magic, Kareem, Shaq, Wilt), and two others who are certainly debatable (West, Baylor).

don't think so. since Jordan is not the greatest player of all time ( my reasoning stated abundantly in this thread ), by saying Kobe > Jordan doesn't mean Kobe is the greatest of anything. and it's not just kobe -- i'm really looking at the leagueful of young and extremely talented players with more than enough calibre to become some of the best players in the history.

While I will concede that Kobe is a better shooter than Mike ever was.....

Jordan's individual accolades and accomplishments include five MVP awards, ten All-NBA First Team designations, nine All-Defensive First Team honors, fourteen NBA All-Star Game appearances and three All-Star MVP, ten scoring titles, three steals titles, six NBA Finals MVP awards, and the 1988 NBA Defensive Player of the Year Award. He holds the NBA record for highest career regular season scoring average with 30.12 points per game, as well as averaging a record 33.4 points per game in the playoffs. In 1999, he was named the greatest North American athlete of the 20th century by ESPN, and was second to Babe Ruth on the Associated Press's list of athletes of the century. He will be eligible for induction into the Basketball Hall of Fame in 2009.

They forgot 2 time gold medalist, 6 time champion, and the fact that he kept SEVERAL hall of famers from getting rings. Kobe is the closest, but still has a loooooooooooooooooong way to go before he has Michael's status. Lebron will be better than both if he stays healthy.

Kobe has been amazing and proven me wrong many times. But as i said before, i really dont know if ill ever put anyone above MJ. But Kobe is easily the best SG since MJ imo, and one of the best ever at this position.

Right now for me i think hes the 2nd best laker of all time (behind Magic) but Kobe could pass him, as he has quite a few more years ahead of him i think.

In Kobe's prime, he does his thing of course but is still just arguably better, more important or more successful with his team than other premiere players like LeBron, Duncan, Shaq, Wade, Nash and now Paul.

In MJ's prime, he did his thing and OWNED the NBA, even in comparison to other prime superstars like Barkley, Stockton, Ewing, Hill and Olajuwon. Jordan was the best, the most complete, and greatest competitor in the league without argument and he had a knack for always living up to the expectations placed upon him and then some as his career went on.

Not that this is any kind of definitive argument, but for any younger folks who were not lucky enough experience the NBA during MJ's prime like they do now this is a big reason why Kobe will probably never touch Jordan in terms of GOAT status. You can examine 3pt shooting percentages and other comparable stats and skills all you want, many still percieve Kobe as simply one of a handful of elite players in the game today. Jordan was on another level when there were still plenty of elites to go around, and that makes a big difference in perception.

viberooni

Kobe is definitively better than those you named. Kobe is the best, the most complete, and greatest competitor in the league without argument........Kobe is not just one of the elte players he is on another level compared to his peers. No other player today has the complete skill set that kobe has! Inside, outside, mid-range, free throws, defense, leadership, clutch, killer instinct, rebounds, assists, work ethic...no other single player is as great as Kobe in that many areas.

[QUOTE="viberooni"]

In Kobe's prime, he does his thing of course but is still just arguably better, more important or more successful with his team than other premiere players like LeBron, Duncan, Shaq, Wade, Nash and now Paul.

In MJ's prime, he did his thing and OWNED the NBA, even in comparison to other prime superstars like Barkley, Stockton, Ewing, Hill and Olajuwon. Jordan was the best, the most complete, and greatest competitor in the league without argument and he had a knack for always living up to the expectations placed upon him and then some as his career went on.

Not that this is any kind of definitive argument, but for any younger folks who were not lucky enough experience the NBA during MJ's prime like they do now this is a big reason why Kobe will probably never touch Jordan in terms of GOAT status. You can examine 3pt shooting percentages and other comparable stats and skills all you want, many still percieve Kobe as simply one of a handful of elite players in the game today. Jordan was on another level when there were still plenty of elites to go around, and that makes a big difference in perception.

mont13

Kobe is definitively better than those you named. Kobe is the best, the most complete, and greatest competitor in the league without argument........Kobe is not just one of the elte players he is on another level compared to his peers. No other player today has the complete skill set that kobe has! Inside, outside, mid-range, free throws, defense, leadership, clutch, killer instinct, rebounds, assists, work ethic...no other single player is as great as Kobe in that many areas.

So far in this thread who thinks Kobe is better than MJ, 3 out of 50.

All I'm saying is that Kobe is at least as skilled as Jordan.

Will Kobe accomplish as much...who knows, but probably not. They simply had 2 different paths. Kobe had to share the spot light with a giant. MJ did not. Its not that Kobe couldn't accomplish as much, he did'nt have to, his teams needs were different. No two players in any sport have ever had the same mirror imaged accomplishments, why does Kobe have to match or exceed Jordan to be considered his equal in skill??? He doesn't.

To say that Kobe hasn't done this or that and MJ has is just a way of saying "Kobe no matter how skilled you are I'm never going to give you your props because you did'nt match MJ accomplishment for accomplishment. Some of you love Jordan more than you love "truth". Like it or not, Kobe's skills are on par with Jordan's. Kobe just pulled a young somewhat inexperienced team through the toughest western conference ever(some experts say), and beat the best team of the era to do it, all with a hand that needs surgery(less you forget).

I've said it before and I'll say it again. In Kobe Bryant you are watching one of the best basketball players you will ever see and all some of you can say is "he's not Michael Jordan". You can give MJ his props and still recognize, and enjoy, Kobe for what he brings to the game. Kobe's the best right now and one of the best of all time.

All I'm saying is that Kobe is at least as skilled as Jordan.

Will Kobe accomplish as much...who knows, but probably not. They simply had 2 different paths. Kobe had to share the spot light with a giant. MJ did not. Its not that Kobe couldn't accomplish as much, he did'nt have to, his teams needs were different. No two players in any sport have ever had the same mirror imaged accomplishments, why does Kobe have to match or exceed Jordan to be considered his equal in skill??? He doesn't.

To say that Kobe hasn't done this or that and MJ has is just a way of saying "Kobe no matter how skilled you are I'm never going to give you your props because you did'nt match MJ accomplishment for accomplishment. Some of you love Jordan more than you love "truth". Like it or not, Kobe's skills are on par with Jordan's. Kobe just pulled a young somewhat inexperienced team through the toughest western conference ever(some experts say), and beat the best team of the era to do it, all with a hand that needs surgery(less you forget).

I've said it before and I'll say it again. In Kobe Bryant you are watching one of the best basketball players you will ever see and all some of you can say is "he's not Michael Jordan". You can give MJ his props and still recognize, and enjoy, Kobe for what he brings to the game. Kobe's the best right now and one of the best of all time.

mont13

Agreed 100%!

[QUOTE="viberooni"]

In Kobe's prime, he does his thing of course but is still just arguably better, more important or more successful with his team than other premiere players like LeBron, Duncan, Shaq, Wade, Nash and now Paul.

In MJ's prime, he did his thing and OWNED the NBA, even in comparison to other prime superstars like Barkley, Stockton, Ewing, Hill and Olajuwon. Jordan was the best, the most complete, and greatest competitor in the league without argument and he had a knack for always living up to the expectations placed upon him and then some as his career went on.

Not that this is any kind of definitive argument, but for any younger folks who were not lucky enough experience the NBA during MJ's prime like they do now this is a big reason why Kobe will probably never touch Jordan in terms of GOAT status. You can examine 3pt shooting percentages and other comparable stats and skills all you want, many still percieve Kobe as simply one of a handful of elite players in the game today. Jordan was on another level when there were still plenty of elites to go around, and that makes a big difference in perception.

mont13

Kobe is definitively better than those you named. Kobe is the best, the most complete, and greatest competitor in the league without argument........Kobe is not just one of the elte players he is on another level compared to his peers. No other player today has the complete skill set that kobe has! Inside, outside, mid-range, free throws, defense, leadership, clutch, killer instinct, rebounds, assists, work ethic...no other single player is as great as Kobe in that many areas.

Please. If Kobe is the best player in the league today, it is by the smallest of margins. Do you really think he is that much better than Lebron, Paul, Wade, and other star players? Hell, you could argue that Lebron is a better player right now, and by the end of his career he will almost certainly be better. He is not nearly as dominate as Jordan was.

All I'm saying is that Kobe is at least as skilled as Jordan.

Will Kobe accomplish as much...who knows, but probably not. They simply had 2 different paths. Kobe had to share the spot light with a giant. MJ did not. Its not that Kobe couldn't accomplish as much, he did'nt have to, his teams needs were different. No two players in any sport have ever had the same mirror imaged accomplishments, why does Kobe have to match or exceed Jordan to be considered his equal in skill??? He doesn't.

To say that Kobe hasn't done this or that and MJ has is just a way of saying "Kobe no matter how skilled you are I'm never going to give you your props because you did'nt match MJ accomplishment for accomplishment. Some of you love Jordan more than you love "truth". Like it or not, Kobe's skills are on par with Jordan's. Kobe just pulled a young somewhat inexperienced team through the toughest western conference ever(some experts say), and beat the best team of the era to do it, all with a hand that needs surgery(less you forget).

I've said it before and I'll say it again. In Kobe Bryant you are watching one of the best basketball players you will ever see and all some of you can say is "he's not Michael Jordan". You can give MJ his props and still recognize, and enjoy, Kobe for what he brings to the game. Kobe's the best right now and one of the best of all time.

mont13

For argument sake, I could also say in many ways that Tim Duncan is the best player right now in the NBA. He may not have the highest scores or the spiffiest moves, but he is the most fundamentally sound player in the league. He is also unsurmountably more accomplished than Kobe ever is or possibly ever will be. I don't even think Kobe can surpass Duncan's accomplishments. Duncan also won the Finals MVP is rookie season. And Duncan proved that he could win without Robinson, twice! So in many ways, Duncan should be considered the best player in the league. But obviously, Jordan is waaay better than Duncan when it comes to their careers.

So where does Kobe stand in all this? Skill wise, yeah, maybe Kobe is the closest to MJ, but when it comes to presence, leadership, dominance, and impact of the game, Duncan is even better than Kobe. So what are we really comparing here? I can say many things. I could even say LeBron is better than Kobe. So whenever I compare great players, you have to see the whole picture. So as of right now, MJ is better than Kobe.

And just to point out a important fact, without Gasol, Lakers have no chance. I think that Gasol should be recognized much MUCH more than the props he's been getting. With Bynum, Lakers were good, but not a championship team. BUt with Gasol, they're obviously a championship team. Gasol really made the Lakers great, so in many ways, I personally think Kobe is getting too much credit.

He maybe skilled and one of the best players of his generation, but he's not better than MJ, he's not better than Magic or Wilt and the fact he's not the most gracious sportsman ever and lacks to a degree of sportsmanship makes him look like a prick where with MJ, it was about the team and not memidgetman007

What! Man, you dudes kill me with your ill-logic! You can't compare a 2 guard of today to a "first of his kind center" from the 60's! Also comparing Magic to Kobe, 2 totally different players, with totally roles is ridiculous! It's all just ways to dis Kobe.

Point Guard: Primary role-Run the team, set up the offense, assist, make plays for others, and Magic was super great at it. Magic also added some "extras" that made him even more special. He also had one of the best collection of great to good players ever to run with.

2 Guard(aka shootingguard): Primary role-Shoot/Score the basketball, ball handling,defend the perimeter, make plays for others...etc, and Kobe is the best at it now. He also brings several other extras that put him above the rest.

Kobe is as good at being a 2 guard as Magic was at being a point guard, thats the only way to look at that. And again, Magic's support cast was much better.

What! Kobe's not gracious or a sportsman and Jordan was!!!! MJ was about the team! What!!!??? OMG, this really kills me. Over time people have sugar coated MJ's career!! MJ was the most selfish, ego driven player ever, it was all about him, he had to be "The Man". Along the way he cruelly and regularly dissed his teammates(even punched one or two), tanked a game after being criticized for shooting too much, didn't get along with his coach who was later fired(D. Collins), ...etc MJ wasn't always the great teammate but some want to forget those times, but are quick to dog Kobe, who has actually matured into a very good, well liked, teammate. But of course you can't admit that because that would put him closer to MJ huh? : )

"Please. If Kobe is the best player in the league today, it is by the smallest of margins. Do you really think he is thatmuch better than Lebron, Paul, Wade, and other star players? Hell, you could argue that Lebron is a better player right now, and by the end of his career he will almost certainly be better. He is not nearly as dominate as Jordan was."

Please! Kobe is better than Lebron! Better defender, better jump shot(from all ranges), better at the line(very important), better ball handler,...etc. And using some of you dudes logic, how can Lebron even be compared to Kobe since Lebron hasn't accomplished nearly as much!!!!

Please! Kobe is better than Wade! see above!

Please! Kobe is better than Paul! See above! Yeah Paul is better at things that a point guard should be better than a 2 guard(ball handling, assists...) but Kobe is the better, more complete player. And again, using your ill-logic, Paul hasn't accomplished as much as Kobe, so no comparison!.

Kobe has shown time and again that he can dominate a game like MJ did, period.

"So where does Kobe stand in all this? Skill wise, yeah, maybe Kobe is the closest to MJ, but when it comes to presence, leadership, dominance, and impact of the game, Duncan is even better than Kobe. So what are we really comparing here? I can say many things. I could even say LeBron is better than Kobe. So whenever I compare great players, you have to see the whole picture. So as of right now, MJ is better than Kobe.

And just to point out a important fact, without Gasol, Lakers have no chance. I think that Gasol should be recognized much MUCH more than the props he's been getting. With Bynum, Lakers were good, but not a championship team. BUt with Gasol, they're obviously a championship team. Gasol really made the Lakers great, so in many ways, I personally think Kobe is getting too much credit"

Wow, omg! Did you watch the last series looked like it was Kobe's presenceleadership, dominance, and impact of the game thatprevailed! Did I miss something?? Duncan is not better than Kobe. The Spurs had a very good, well balanced team,thats why they won rings. Give Duncan Kwame Brown and Smush Parker..etc, and see how many rings he would have won.

Now that Kobe has a good well balanced team around him, they slice through Tim Duncan and the Spurs is FIVE GAMES!!But what do you do....try to give the credit to Pau Gasol! Are you serious! Looked like it was Kobe bringing them back from 20 in game 1, looked like it was Kobe bringing them back for 17, then putting the dagger in and twiisting it last night! Looked like it was Kobe that Utah could not control. Looked like it was Gasol disappearing in a few games along this playoff run. Please, name me one player who has done it by himself!!! Magic had great help. MJ had great help, Duncan had great help, Bird had great help, Russell, Chamberlain, Olajuwan, my man Dr. J all had good to great role players on their runs.....But Kobe, no you want him to do it alone or else you give others the credit! Kobes support cast is not as good as any of the above players and the Lakers still go on a title run through the best west conf. ever!, primarily because of Kobe. STOP HATIN' !!!

Give Duncan Kwame Brown and Smush Parker..etc, and see how many rings he would have won.

mont13

You just confirmed my arguement. Kobe couldn't win with Brown or Parker, so likewise, without Gasol, Lakers would be nothing.

And I'm not the only who thinks without Gasol, Lakers wouldn't even be in the Finals, or even make it to the western conference finals.

Also, you discredit Duncan way too much. So forget it, you have no idea what you're talking about.

[QUOTE="midgetman007"]He maybe skilled and one of the best players of his generation, but he's not better than MJ, he's not better than Magic or Wilt and the fact he's not the most gracious sportsman ever and lacks to a degree of sportsmanship makes him look like a prick where with MJ, it was about the team and not memont13

What! Man, you dudes kill me with your ill-logic! You can't compare a 2 guard of today to a "first of his kind center" from the 60's! Also comparing Magic to Kobe, 2 totally different players, with totally roles is ridiculous! It's all just ways to dis Kobe.

Point Guard: Primary role-Run the team, set up the offense, assist, make plays for others, and Magic was super great at it. Magic also added some "extras" that made him even more special. He also had one of the best collection of great to good players ever to run with.

2 Guard(aka shootingguard): Primary role-Shoot/Score the basketball, ball handling,defend the perimeter, make plays for others...etc, and Kobe is the best at it now. He also brings several other extras that put him above the rest.

Kobe is as good at being a 2 guard as Magic was at being a point guard, thats the only way to look at that. And again, Magic's support cast was much better.

What! Kobe's not gracious or a sportsman and Jordan was!!!! MJ was about the team! What!!!??? OMG, this really kills me. Over time people have sugar coated MJ's career!! MJ was the most selfish, ego driven player ever, it was all about him, he had to be "The Man". Along the way he cruelly and regularly dissed his teammates(even punched one or two), tanked a game after being criticized for shooting too much, didn't get along with his coach who was later fired(D. Collins), ...etc MJ wasn't always the great teammate but some want to forget those times, but are quick to dog Kobe, who has actually matured into a very good, well liked, teammate. But of course you can't admit that because that would put him closer to MJ huh? : )

Calling Kobe a good teammate when he bascailly threw the team under the bus in the beginning of the season but when Gasol came to the rescue he was ready to be kissing their ass. And I know basketball positions, don't need you to explain what a 2 guard is, and it doesn't matter, overall accomplishment and players, Wilt is better than Kobe. Because when it comes to overall dominance and ability, Wilt absolutely dominated his era. Saying you can't compare is just a scapegoat, Kobe isn't the best of all time, he's not better than MJ, and will have to deal with being the best of his generation and Lebron will take that role soon.

Even Kobe in a recent interview with Stephen A. Smith on ESPN after the conference final, Kobe said, "Michael Jordan is the greatest player to ever play the game," when Smith brought up the topic about comparisons to Jordan.

Kobe also said to let the argument go and said Michael is Michael. Smith then asked Kobe if he wants to be the greatest of all time. And Kobe responded that all he wants to do is to do the best that he can be.

Well, there you go. Let's do what the man says and let this whole argument go.

Michael is Michael, and Kobe is Kobe. And Kobe even acknowledges that MJ is the greatest player to ever play the game.

Nuff` said.

Even Kobe in a recent interview with Stephen A. Smith on ESPN after the conference final, Kobe said, "Michael Jordan is the greatest player to ever play the game," when Smith brought up the topic about comparisons to Jordan.

Kobe also said to let the argument go and said Michael is Michael. Smith then asked Kobe if he wants to be the greatest of all time. And Kobe responded that all he wants to do is to do the best that he can be.

Well, there you go. Let's do what the man says and let this whole argument go.

Michael is Michael, and Kobe is Kobe. And Kobe even acknowledges that MJ is the greatest player to ever play the game.

Nuff` said.

ASK_Story

I saw the interview and knew before that that Kobe didn't like the comparisons and that he consideres MJ the greatest. My point here and on many other posts on gamespot is that career comparisons are inherently unfair and inconclusive.

I never said Kobe was greater than MJ, I said skill-wise the comparison is not ridiculous and if comparisons are going to be made "skill" is the only somewhat fair way to do it. If some pick Kobe on that basis, fine, if MJ fine. But you guys downgrade Kobe every chance you get and start tossing up MJ's career accomplishments as soon as people mention Kobe's name with MJ. As I said before if you're a real b-ball fan enjoy Kobe now, MJ had his day. Are continue to jock MJ without putting Kobe down or believing he has to match MJ's career.

that just goes to show that Kobe is a mature player, a personality with a class. surely you aren't serious? nobody with his right mind would say yes to that question -- i can bet you my balls that Jordan would have named another player as the greatest in similar situation. shall we then, err, "do what the man says"?

looking back, something about this thread really saddens my heart, greatly -- the way that Pippen is treated as invisible ( as compared to the constant mention of Kobe's teammates, i honestly like Pippen more than Jordan so that offends the hell outta me ), and most importantly the way people just blatantly disrespect other star players, classic and current alike. Kobe is not even my choice for the greatest player of all time ( that'd be Bill Russell, in my opinion ) -- it's not about Kobe being the best, it's about Jordan NOT being the greatest player of all time, and that the present and future talented players really deserve much more respect than they do right now, in this laughable post-jordan era.

"Calling Kobe a good teammate when he bascailly threw the team under the bus in the beginning of the season but when Gasol came to the rescue he was ready to be kissing their ass. And I know basketball positions, don't need you to explain what a 2 guard is, and it doesn't matter, overall accomplishment and players, Wilt is better than Kobe. Because when it comes to overall dominance and ability, Wilt absolutely dominated his era. Saying you can't compare is just a scapegoat, Kobe isn't the best of all time, he's not better than MJ, and will have to deal with being the best of his generation and Lebron will take that role soon."

Kobe is a good teammate now, ask the several teammates who say so. If you think MJ would do any different if he had a team of scrubs you are fooling yourself! How do I know, because MJ did many of the same things you accsue Kobe of when he was on a team of scrubs!(Do you even remember Brad Sellars, Granville Waiters, Stacey King...etc, and how frustrated MJ was, how negative and critical he was, how he clashed with the coach, yeah, way to ignore that part!)

Never said Kobe was the best of all time or better than MJ, frankly I don't care if you(or anyone) think he's not, I just like to have a little fun pointing out the inconsistencies in the jordan jokers argument.

If you can't see the obvious differences between Wilt, his era and this one, then you have a problem.

Kobe is the best of his generation and many say comparable to MJ(sorry, you ok?? :cry:) By the way, holla back when the pre-maturely crowned King James can hit a free throw or jumper consistently, or actually gets a ring. (he will at some point, but not this year!)

[QUOTE="mont13"]

Give Duncan Kwame Brown and Smush Parker..etc, and see how many rings he would have won.

ASK_Story

You just confirmed my arguement. Kobe couldn't win with Brown or Parker, so likewise, without Gasol, Lakers would be nothing.

And I'm not the only who thinks without Gasol, Lakers wouldn't even be in the Finals, or even make it to the western conference finals.

Also, you discredit Duncan way too much. So forget it, you have no idea what you're talking about.

No, I pointed out how silly and inconsistent your argument is. Like I said name the one player who won by himself??? You can't. So to point out that Kobe without Gasol would not be where they are is silly and weak, sorry. Take Pippen off the Bulls, MJ would not have gone where he did. You say MJ has 6 rings, no, the Bulls have 6 rings! No other great player has done it by himself but you want to pick Kobe out of the crowd and say he couldn't do it without Gasol....thats "hatin"!

Gasol is a nice addition but make no mistake Kobe is The Man on that team. Kobe is helping Gasol more than Gasol is helping Kobe. I already stated the reasons why in a previous post.

Kobe isn't even the best player this generation, I don't even see how's it plausible to call him better than MJ (both Duncan and Shaq are better). I love Bill Simmons' description of Kobe when he compared him to CP3: Kobe's a selfish player with a fake love for his teamates. I honestly can't believe the NBA has sunk to such a low that a person such as Kobe, with all his off-the-court antics, is respected that much in this league. Absolutely ridiculous.

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=3185

Kobe isn't even the best player this generation, I don't even see how's it plausible to call him better than MJ (both Duncan and Shaq are better). I love Bill Simmons' description of Kobe when he compared him to CP3: Kobe's a selfish player with a fake love for his teamates. I honestly can't believe the NBA has sunk to such a low that a person such as Kobe, with all his off-the-court antics, is respected that much in this league. Absolutely ridiculous.

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=3185

nutDAVE3

did you read the latest Bill Simmons article? I cut out a little part for you to read

"I hate comparing anyone to Jordan, but what Kobe has shown over the past four months has been Jordanesque -- not just his ability to raise his game in big moments (which he always had), but the way he can pick his spots, keep his teammates involved and then just arbitrarily take over the game and put it away. If being an NBA superstar was like playing "Grand Theft Auto," then that would be the final mission, right? The way Kobe singlehandedly assassinated the Spurs in Games 1 and 5 was something we've only seen from a handful of players in NBA history. You can't say enough about it. He has become the player we always wanted him to be"

here's the full Bill Simmons article