Kurt Warner and the Hall Of Fame

I remember some annoucers and analysts doubting if Kurt Warner deserved to be in the HOF due to not just his time in the NFLbut how much time he spent as a backup. I personally think he should be in the hall, he has lead 2 teams to the SB winning once and has the numbers to warrant it. In your opinion does he deserve to be in the Hall or not?

I see him going to the Hall of Fame but not on the first time of him being able to be voted in.

He is easily a first ballot hall of famer

He's been to three Superbowls

He's been MVP of one of them

He's got the second highest completion percentage in league history while having the highest average of passing yards in NFL history

Also add in that he took perennial losers in the Rams and the Cards to the Superbowl and you have a first ballot lock for the hall

I can't believe anyone thinks this is something that is even questionable, of course he belongs in the HoF. Last I checked, QBs who take two different franchises to a Super Bowl were in very short supply. He's more than proven himself. Warner is more worthy than Brett Favre if you really want to get right down to it.

he should get in. Maybe not 1st ballot but he will get in

He's got the second highest completion percentage in league history Jaysonguy

And it is the NFL HOF, everyone gets in eventually.

yes but not first maybe 3rd or 4th

yes but not first maybe 3rd or 4th

James161324

Why woudn't he be a first ballot?

For sure he should be in the HOF.

No HOF,all he had was talented gifted recievers the dude had Torry Holt + Issac Bruce, Larry Fitzgerald + Anquan Boldin. Who knows how he would play without them.I say no hall of fame PS:Payton Manning had Marvin Harrison + Regie Wayne + Dallas Clark+Brandon stokleyhotboyz81

[QUOTE="hotboyz81"]No HOF,all he had was talented gifted recievers the dude had Torry Holt + Issac Bruce, Larry Fitzgerald + Anquan Boldin. Who knows how he would play without them.I say no hall of fame PS:Payton Manning had Marvin Harrison + Regie Wayne + Dallas Clark+Brandon stokleyMoonMarvel

Tom Brady, who did he have?.........besides Deion Branch,Troy Brown,and David Givens=3 sb championships

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"][QUOTE="hotboyz81"]No HOF,all he had was talented gifted recievers the dude had Torry Holt + Issac Bruce, Larry Fitzgerald + Anquan Boldin. Who knows how he would play without them.I say no hall of fame PS:Payton Manning had Marvin Harrison + Regie Wayne + Dallas Clark+Brandon stokleyhotboyz81

Tom Brady, who did he have?.........besides Deion Branch,Troy Brown,and David Givens=3 sb championships

Troy Brown is one of the greatest players to ever put on pads

Also Brady has had one of the greatest minds in football on his side. The one who helped him have a stellar defense for the last decade.

Don't turn this into one of those "I refuse to see the quality and depth of the New England Patriots and Tom Brady does all the work" threads please

He is easily a first ballot hall of famer

He's been to three Superbowls

He's been MVP of one of them

He's got the second highest completion percentage in league history while having the highest average of passing yards in NFL history

Also add in that he took perennial losers in the Rams and the Cards to the Superbowl and you have a first ballot lock for the hall

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"][QUOTE="hotboyz81"]No HOF,all he had was talented gifted recievers the dude had Torry Holt + Issac Bruce, Larry Fitzgerald + Anquan Boldin. Who knows how he would play without them.I say no hall of fame PS:Payton Manning had Marvin Harrison + Regie Wayne + Dallas Clark+Brandon stokleyhotboyz81

Tom Brady, who did he have?.........besides Deion Branch,Troy Brown,and David Givens=3 sb championships

[QUOTE="hotboyz81"]

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"] By this logic Joe Montana shouldn't be in the hall because he had Jerry Rice all those years. :roll: Marino had great recievers as did Terry Bradshaw. Using the talent around him to deny him his place makes no sense what so ever. No wide out can make a QB put up those numbers, end of story. Jaysonguy

Tom Brady, who did he have?.........besides Deion Branch,Troy Brown,and David Givens=3 sb championships

Troy Brown is one of the greatest players to ever put on pads

Explain..........???????????????

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"][QUOTE="hotboyz81"]No HOF,all he had was talented gifted recievers the dude had Torry Holt + Issac Bruce, Larry Fitzgerald + Anquan Boldin. Who knows how he would play without them.I say no hall of fame PS:Payton Manning had Marvin Harrison + Regie Wayne + Dallas Clark+Brandon stokleyhotboyz81

Tom Brady, who did he have?.........besides Deion Branch,Troy Brown,and David Givens=3 sb championships

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="hotboyz81"]

Tom Brady, who did he have?.........besides Deion Branch,Troy Brown,and David Givens=3 sb championships

hotboyz81

Troy Brown is one of the greatest players to ever put on pads

Explain..........???????????????

He's as clutch as you can get.

Do you need someone who can make a catch with the game on the line?
Do you need someone who can return kicks?
Do you need someone who can return punts?
Do you need someone who can play both sides of the ball in one game?

Troy Brown is one of the most undervalued players in NFL history.

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"][QUOTE="hotboyz81"]No HOF,all he had was talented gifted recievers the dude had Torry Holt + Issac Bruce, Larry Fitzgerald + Anquan Boldin. Who knows how he would play without them.I say no hall of fame PS:Payton Manning had Marvin Harrison + Regie Wayne + Dallas Clark+Brandon stokleyhotboyz81

Tom Brady, who did he have?.........besides Deion Branch,Troy Brown,and David Givens=3 sb championships

[QUOTE="hotboyz81"]

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"] By this logic Joe Montana shouldn't be in the hall because he had Jerry Rice all those years. :roll: Marino had great recievers as did Terry Bradshaw. Using the talent around him to deny him his place makes no sense what so ever. No wide out can make a QB put up those numbers, end of story. MoonMarvel

Tom Brady, who did he have?.........besides Deion Branch,Troy Brown,and David Givens=3 sb championships

Wow, so to compensate for him going too far in one direction you went too far in the other direction?

Brady is not a product of the system, if anyone could play QB for the Pats then the Pats wouldn't take up so much cap space having a player that wasn't needed.

Cassel is a quality player who is a starter in this league.

Brady is very important to the Patriots but the Patriots also give him the tools to get the job done.

Yeah, he should deff. be in the HOF. He's a great QB and has had a great career (and it's still going). I wouldn't be surprised if he was a 1st ballot HOF.

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"][QUOTE="hotboyz81"]

Tom Brady, who did he have?.........besides Deion Branch,Troy Brown,and David Givens=3 sb championships

Jaysonguy

Wow, so to compensate for him going too far in one direction you went too far in the other direction?

Brady is not a product of the system, if anyone could play QB for the Pats then the Pats wouldn't take up so much cap space having a player that wasn't needed.

Cassel is a quality player who is a starter in this league.

Brady is very important to the Patriots but the Patriots also give him the tools to get the job done.

I agreed with you up until calling Cassel a quality player.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"] Sorry I can't take you seriously anymore. And Tom Brady had his best season ever when welker and moss joined him, Also he had a great team and those 3 were actually decent recievers. Also Brady had a great setup, wonderful coaches and a all around top 5 team giving him protection and a near flawless system in which ANYBODY in the NFL could have done well...IE Matt Cassel.MarcusAntonius

Wow, so to compensate for him going too far in one direction you went too far in the other direction?

Brady is not a product of the system, if anyone could play QB for the Pats then the Pats wouldn't take up so much cap space having a player that wasn't needed.

Cassel is a quality player who is a starter in this league.

Brady is very important to the Patriots but the Patriots also give him the tools to get the job done.

I agreed with you up until calling Cassel a quality player.

He is

The only reason he was a backup at USC was because of dumb luck and Heismans and then for the Pats he sat behind Brady.

When asked to perform in the national spotlight he proved he has every right to be a starter in the league.

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Wow, so to compensate for him going too far in one direction you went too far in the other direction?

Brady is not a product of the system, if anyone could play QB for the Pats then the Pats wouldn't take up so much cap space having a player that wasn't needed.

Cassel is a quality player who is a starter in this league.

Brady is very important to the Patriots but the Patriots also give him the tools to get the job done.

Jaysonguy

I agreed with you up until calling Cassel a quality player.

He is

The only reason he was a backup at USC was because of dumb luck and Heismans and then for the Pats he sat behind Brady.

When asked to perform in the national spotlight he proved he has every right to be a starter in the league.

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"][QUOTE="hotboyz81"]

Tom Brady, who did he have?.........besides Deion Branch,Troy Brown,and David Givens=3 sb championships

Jaysonguy

Wow, so to compensate for him going too far in one direction you went too far in the other direction?

Brady is not a product of the system, if anyone could play QB for the Pats then the Pats wouldn't take up so much cap space having a player that wasn't needed.

Cassel is a quality player who is a starter in this league.

Brady is very important to the Patriots but the Patriots also give him the tools to get the job done.

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Wow, so to compensate for him going too far in one direction you went too far in the other direction?

Brady is not a product of the system, if anyone could play QB for the Pats then the Pats wouldn't take up so much cap space having a player that wasn't needed.

Cassel is a quality player who is a starter in this league.

Brady is very important to the Patriots but the Patriots also give him the tools to get the job done.

Jaysonguy

I agreed with you up until calling Cassel a quality player.

He is

The only reason he was a backup at USC was because of dumb luck and Heismans and then for the Pats he sat behind Brady.

When asked to perform in the national spotlight he proved he has every right to be a starter in the league.

He is

The only reason he was a backup at USC was because of dumb luck and Heismans and then for the Pats he sat behind Brady.

When asked to perform in the national spotlight he proved he has every right to be a starter in the league.

Jaysonguy

Werd. Throwing five yard outs to Wes Welker and Randy Moss in a mediocre division really screams greatness. Sorry Jayson, it was fool's gold. The Chiefs made a terrible mistake giving him a $60 million contract.

Now that we're completely off-topic, I remember Sal Paolantonio has an excellent article on the second half of Favre's career.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

He is

The only reason he was a backup at USC was because of dumb luck and Heismans and then for the Pats he sat behind Brady.

When asked to perform in the national spotlight he proved he has every right to be a starter in the league.

Werd. Throwing five yard outs to Wes Welker and Randy Moss really in a mediocre division really screams greatness. Sorry Jayson, it was fool's gold. The Chiefs made a terrible mistake giving him a $60 million contract.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"] Sorry I can't take you seriously anymore. And Tom Brady had his best season ever when welker and moss joined him, Also he had a great team and those 3 were actually decent recievers. Also Brady had a great setup, wonderful coaches and a all around top 5 team giving him protection and a near flawless system in which ANYBODY in the NFL could have done well...IE Matt Cassel.MoonMarvel

Wow, so to compensate for him going too far in one direction you went too far in the other direction?

Brady is not a product of the system, if anyone could play QB for the Pats then the Pats wouldn't take up so much cap space having a player that wasn't needed.

Cassel is a quality player who is a starter in this league.

Brady is very important to the Patriots but the Patriots also give him the tools to get the job done.

I'm walking a fine line here in trying not to flame you, but anyone who really believes what you just posted here, doesn't know a single thing about football. Same for all Brady-haters.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"] Sorry I can't take you seriously anymore. And Tom Brady had his best season ever when welker and moss joined him, Also he had a great team and those 3 were actually decent recievers. Also Brady had a great setup, wonderful coaches and a all around top 5 team giving him protection and a near flawless system in which ANYBODY in the NFL could have done well...IE Matt Cassel.MoonMarvel

Wow, so to compensate for him going too far in one direction you went too far in the other direction?

Brady is not a product of the system, if anyone could play QB for the Pats then the Pats wouldn't take up so much cap space having a player that wasn't needed.

Cassel is a quality player who is a starter in this league.

Brady is very important to the Patriots but the Patriots also give him the tools to get the job done.

Great, then you'll have no problem explaining Brady's salary and cap hit

Also how many Superbowls did he win before all this weapons? 3

And how many once he got Moss/Stallworth/Welker?

So yeah, anytime you'd like to expain why Brady has such a high salary and cap hit if he's just part of the system that would be great. Oh and if you could also explain why they kept Brady at this high salary and cap hit instead of cutting him and having Cassel that would also be super.

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Wow, so to compensate for him going too far in one direction you went too far in the other direction?

Brady is not a product of the system, if anyone could play QB for the Pats then the Pats wouldn't take up so much cap space having a player that wasn't needed.

Cassel is a quality player who is a starter in this league.

Brady is very important to the Patriots but the Patriots also give him the tools to get the job done.

Great, then you'll have no problem explaining Brady's salary and cap hit

Also how many Superbowls did he win before all this weapons? 3

And how many once he got Moss/Stallworth/Welker?

So yeah, anytime you'd like to expain why Brady has such a high salary and cap hit if he's just part of the system that would be great. Oh and if you could also explain why they kept Brady at this high salary and cap hit instead of cutting him and having Cassel that would also be super.

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Wow, so to compensate for him going too far in one direction you went too far in the other direction?

Brady is not a product of the system, if anyone could play QB for the Pats then the Pats wouldn't take up so much cap space having a player that wasn't needed.

Cassel is a quality player who is a starter in this league.

Brady is very important to the Patriots but the Patriots also give him the tools to get the job done.

I'm walking a fine line here in trying not to flame you, but anyone who really believes what you just posted here, doesn't know a single thing about football. Same for all Brady-haters.

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"] :roll: How did I go to far? Seems like everything I said was 100% correct. He didn't have his best season with Moss and Welker then? He doesn't have a great system and coaches? Those 3 aren't decent recievers? His system isn't good enough to allow anybody to do well in? Even though others can do well some will always do better than others, IE Denvers run system. Sorry but everything I said was correct and I can no longer take you seriously either.MoonMarvel

I'm walking a fine line here in trying not to flame you, but anyone who really believes what you just posted here, doesn't know a single thing about football. Same for all Brady-haters.

So an 11-5 record by a career backup proves that a three-time Super Bowl champion and a two-time Super Bowl MVP is merely a product of a system? Really, seriously?:roll: Do you really have idea how ridiculous this sounds?

All I can say is that if this is the line you're going to hold onto for dear life, then all QBs are system players in your opinion. If that's what you believe, then fine, but even then you're still wrong. If you honestly believe that Brady is an exception, then I'll kindly refer you back to Brady's pre-Moss days to prove you 100% wrong in regards to Brady being the product of a system.

Your claims aren't just groundless, they're just plain nonsense.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"] :roll: How did I go to far? Seems like everything I said was 100% correct. He didn't have his best season with Moss and Welker then? He doesn't have a great system and coaches? Those 3 aren't decent recievers? His system isn't good enough to allow anybody to do well in? Even though others can do well some will always do better than others, IE Denvers run system. Sorry but everything I said was correct and I can no longer take you seriously either.MoonMarvel

Great, then you'll have no problem explaining Brady's salary and cap hit

Also how many Superbowls did he win before all this weapons? 3

And how many once he got Moss/Stallworth/Welker?

So yeah, anytime you'd like to expain why Brady has such a high salary and cap hit if he's just part of the system that would be great. Oh and if you could also explain why they kept Brady at this high salary and cap hit instead of cutting him and having Cassel that would also be super.

Please answer the questions I asked if you'd like to continue this direction because right now you have nothing

So that 11-5 record is all you got? Is that it? Seriously? :roll: How in the world that 11-5 record doesn't tell people something is shocking, and more so how fast people forget that Crennel and Weis aren't there anymore. You really didn't prove anything there buddy, if anything you kinda disproved yourself. Don't you find it odd the Patriots won 3 SB's with Crennel and Weis but as soon as they left he has yet to win one? Even losing...Wonder why. My comment stands, try harder with some real insight.MoonMarvel

ROTFLMFAO:lol:

So now you've gone from irrational to disingenuous? Clever. So a lucky catch by David Tyree in SB XLII (Brady doesn't play defense) invalidates Brady's season long performance in leading the Pats to a 18-1 record now? Oh yeah, it was all Randy Moss. How have Crennel and Weis done in their respective coaching careers, by the way? You have completely invalidated your entire argument by even bringing those names up.

IDC anymore, all i know is that Tom Brady has been to 4 super bowls and won 3 of them, that's 75 percent.Im spoiled, my pats got championships,some players never even go to superbowl let alone win it. Many haven't even won at least one SB. So your posts are irrelevant to me at this point. IMO!

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"] This is awesome, not only did you not answer a single question you dodged them outright. Seems all you have is his salary and rings.MoonMarvel

Please answer the questions I asked if you'd like to continue this direction because right now you have nothing

Again, if you refuse to answer those questions then you admit you are wrong

They're very simple questions

If anyone can do it why do the Pats still have Brady?

When you have an answer I'll be waiting.

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Please answer the questions I asked if you'd like to continue this direction because right now you have nothing

Jaysonguy

Again, if you refuse to answer those questions then you admit you are wrong

They're very simple questions

If anyone can do it why do the Pats still have Brady?

When you have an answer I'll be waiting.

Because the Pats haven't won any games without Crennel and Weis on the sidelines, haven't you heard?