This is why lebron will never be better than kobe.
Love the face!
61 in on the garden no problem.
All kobe need was 3 quarters to score 62pts!
Nothing need be said....
Best of all time
Lebron is not the best player in nba why?
This topic is locked from further discussion.
Not the best of all-time, LOL! That title belongs to another #23 NOT LeBron James. ;)
But I do agree that Kobe is still the best in the NBA at the moment. But I also think that it's only a matter of time LeBron takes over, unless some crazy freak of nature comes out of college or high school that blows both of them away, which I don't see happenining, at least not in our lifetime.
But it's arguable. Some say LeBron is the best, some say Kobe is. I guess it's both right. LeBron does things that make him the best, but then again, Kobe does things that show why he's still the best.
But at the end, it doesn't matter really, because there will always be only one GREATESTOF ALL-TIME, and we all know who that is. HINT: He's from the Bulls, 6 NBA Finals MVPs, 5 regular MVPs, Defensive Player of the Year, and loves to stick out his toungue! ;)
Not the best of all-time, LOL! That title belongs to another #23 NOT LeBron James. ;)
But I do agree that Kobe is still the best in the NBA at the moment. But I also think that it's only a matter of time LeBron takes over, unless some crazy freak of nature comes out of college or high school that blows both of them away, which I don't see happenining, at least not in our lifetime.
But it's arguable. Some say LeBron is the best, some say Kobe is. I guess it's both right. LeBron does things that make him the best, but then again, Kobe does things that show why he's still the best.
But at the end, it doesn't matter really, because there will always be only one GREATESTOF ALL-TIME, and we all know who that is. HINT: He's from the Bulls, 6 NBA Finals MVPs, 5 regular MVPs, Defensive Player of the Year, and loves to stick out his toungue! ;)
ASK_Story
Well when you think to your self hmm jordan the goat... Maybe not because kobe scored 81 on thi day and age it impossible!! even the 62 pts in 3quaters wtf! Kobe right nowis playing in the nba with longer taller stronger plus better def in nba rite now! While jordan plays in the nba with weaker guards shorter players not as much Double teams! and all the above...
[QUOTE="ASK_Story"]
Not the best of all-time, LOL! That title belongs to another #23 NOT LeBron James. ;)
But I do agree that Kobe is still the best in the NBA at the moment. But I also think that it's only a matter of time LeBron takes over, unless some crazy freak of nature comes out of college or high school that blows both of them away, which I don't see happenining, at least not in our lifetime.
But it's arguable. Some say LeBron is the best, some say Kobe is. I guess it's both right. LeBron does things that make him the best, but then again, Kobe does things that show why he's still the best.
But at the end, it doesn't matter really, because there will always be only one GREATESTOF ALL-TIME, and we all know who that is. HINT: He's from the Bulls, 6 NBA Finals MVPs, 5 regular MVPs, Defensive Player of the Year, and loves to stick out his toungue! ;)
yonaswii08
Well when you think to your self hmm jordan the goat... Maybe not because kobe scored 81 on thi day and age it impossible!! even the 62 pts in 3quaters wtf! Kobe right nowis playing in the nba with longer taller stronger plus better def in nba rite now! While jordan plays in the nba with weaker guards shorter players not as much Double teams! and all the above...
I have no idea what you're saying. Anyway, go look at the thread with the Jordan poll. Almost everyone considers Jordan as Greatest of all time.
I think pretty much everyone knows by now why kobe is better. His footwork which is largely overlooked is so much better compared to Lebrons it's not even fair to compare. Then there's the fact that Kobe is more clutch, has more offensive moves then LBJ and has been on the NBA's all defensive team 9 times, maybe Lebron will get there someday but at this moment he's not on the level of Kobe
[QUOTE="-Halftime-"]Kobe is better. LeBron is good but Kobe's game is fundamentally superior. Kobe's a better shooter, defender, and clutch player. Kobe has one of the most fundamentally sound games of all time. He's putting on a show in The Finals while LeBron sits at home. Kobe is better.CleanPlayerAgreed, I'm sick of people saying LeBron is better. If Kobe wins these series against Orlando, it''s offical Kobe > LeBron. Even if LA loses this series I think many would still say Kobe>LeBron.
[QUOTE="ASK_Story"]
Not the best of all-time, LOL! That title belongs to another #23 NOT LeBron James. ;)
But I do agree that Kobe is still the best in the NBA at the moment. But I also think that it's only a matter of time LeBron takes over, unless some crazy freak of nature comes out of college or high school that blows both of them away, which I don't see happenining, at least not in our lifetime.
But it's arguable. Some say LeBron is the best, some say Kobe is. I guess it's both right. LeBron does things that make him the best, but then again, Kobe does things that show why he's still the best.
But at the end, it doesn't matter really, because there will always be only one GREATESTOF ALL-TIME, and we all know who that is. HINT: He's from the Bulls, 6 NBA Finals MVPs, 5 regular MVPs, Defensive Player of the Year, and loves to stick out his toungue! ;)
Well when you think to your self hmm jordan the goat... Maybe not because kobe scored 81 on thi day and age it impossible!! even the 62 pts in 3quaters wtf! Kobe right nowis playing in the nba with longer taller stronger plus better def in nba rite now! While jordan plays in the nba with weaker guards shorter players not as much Double teams! and all the above...
Again Kobe scored 81 against a subpar Raptors team and had the ball in his hands 90% of the game. I am not trying to take away what Kobe did, but I bet Jordan could have done the same if had been in the same situation as Kobe.[QUOTE="ASK_Story"]
Not the best of all-time, LOL! That title belongs to another #23 NOT LeBron James. ;)
But I do agree that Kobe is still the best in the NBA at the moment. But I also think that it's only a matter of time LeBron takes over, unless some crazy freak of nature comes out of college or high school that blows both of them away, which I don't see happenining, at least not in our lifetime.
But it's arguable. Some say LeBron is the best, some say Kobe is. I guess it's both right. LeBron does things that make him the best, but then again, Kobe does things that show why he's still the best.
But at the end, it doesn't matter really, because there will always be only one GREATESTOF ALL-TIME, and we all know who that is. HINT: He's from the Bulls, 6 NBA Finals MVPs, 5 regular MVPs, Defensive Player of the Year, and loves to stick out his toungue! ;)
yonaswii08
Well when you think to your self hmm jordan the goat... Maybe not because kobe scored 81 on thi day and age it impossible!! even the 62 pts in 3quaters wtf! Kobe right nowis playing in the nba with longer taller stronger plus better def in nba rite now! While jordan plays in the nba with weaker guards shorter players not as much Double teams! and all the above...
I understand you are a fan and you just want to start a thread to illustrate that, but at least have some clue about the history of basketball before saying such idiotic things. At least if you wanna make a case, use something credible. But then again we are on a video game site, so you can't really expect everyone to know more than a 6th grader about sports, but at least those people don't USUALLY make ridiculous comments. "Weaker guards, not as much double teams". If you really believe what you said you know absolutely NOTHING about basketballI enjoy watching Lebron play more, he does things taht no one has ever been able to do in the NBA. And the way he just stormed into the NBA was amazing, he had SUCH high expectations and he did better then expected.
BUT........ Kobe is the better defender and has more of a killer instinct aswell. But the one thing i dont like about Kobe is sometimes he can be very selfish (not as much anymore, but earylier in his career he had more then his moments with taking bad shots, punching other players,etc.. He has definatly grown up though).
Overall i think Kobe is the best player in the world overall, but Lebron is more of a unique offensive beast and a type of player i have never seen.
But with that being said, Kobe is the best, not my favorite, but the best overall, without question.
Kobe does have ALOT more help though around him then Lebron does though this year (Gasol and Odom are two of my favorite players and are both beasts, i think if Lebron had those two guys he would do alot better).
Overall, i hate to say it.. but... KOBE >> Lebron if we are talking about overall game on both ends (to many times i see Lebron not play D, while Kobe plays D almost all the time).
The only things that piss me off about Kobe is the way he was when he was younger, that he should have given the ball to Shaq more that finals vs the Pistons (tons of laker fans, newspapers and talkshow hosts agreed) and the main thing, is that i hear people say KOBE > MJ, which REALLY pisses me off, as MJ is the best ever adn will always be imo. Lebron and Kobe are great, but MJ >>> All imo.
You sure cant deny that Kobe is a beast though, the things he does with the ball are just amazing, and its GREAT to see him leaning on Gasol when needed and not tryign to do EVERYTHING himself.
[QUOTE="CleanPlayer"][QUOTE="-Halftime-"]Kobe is better. LeBron is good but Kobe's game is fundamentally superior. Kobe's a better shooter, defender, and clutch player. Kobe has one of the most fundamentally sound games of all time. He's putting on a show in The Finals while LeBron sits at home. Kobe is better.jfcundiffAgreed, I'm sick of people saying LeBron is better. If Kobe wins these series against Orlando, it''s offical Kobe > LeBron. Even if LA loses this series I think many would still say Kobe>LeBron. I agree you can make that arguement, because LeBron didn't get as far as Kobe in the NBA playoffs this year.
"Again Kobe scored 81 against a subpar Raptors team and had the ball in his hands 90% of the game. I am not trying to take away what Kobe did, but I bet Jordan could have done the same if had been in the same situation as Kobe."
Are you telling me MJ never played "sub-par" teams ?? I know he did. You do know the circumstances of that game, right? Kobe had the ball in his hands during that scoring blitz because his team was down big in the 3rd qtr. Apparently nobody was doing much of anything. So the star player stepped up and got it done. They kept feeding Kobe because he was beyond "hot", as they should have. See, this is what bugs me. If MJ had scored 81 and Kobe hadn't, omg, I would never hear the end of it. Kobe gets 81 and people have to find a way to down grade it as opposed to appreciate it. To me it was the most amazing scoring display in history (eclipsing Wilts, considering the circumstances). "Again", MJ played against many sad teams in his career and wasn't shy about taking shots either, he had plenty of opportunity to score 81 but didn't. MJ didn't even get 71. MJ didn't score beyond the 60's, his highest scoring games came in ot, one was in double ot. Give Kobe his moment and appreciate it, geez!!!,
P.S: Come on sixringz, lighten up on the young man.:D
I hope Kevin Durrant or Derrick Rose become better than Queen James but it's not going to happen :(
Kobe is better. LeBron is good but Kobe's game is fundamentally superior. Kobe's a better shooter, defender, and clutch player. Kobe has one of the most fundamentally sound games of all time. He's putting on a show in The Finals while LeBron sits at home. Kobe is better.-Halftime-HelI, Id argue that he has the most fundamentally sound game of all time.
[QUOTE="yonaswii08"]
[QUOTE="ASK_Story"]
Not the best of all-time, LOL! That title belongs to another #23 NOT LeBron James. ;)
But I do agree that Kobe is still the best in the NBA at the moment. But I also think that it's only a matter of time LeBron takes over, unless some crazy freak of nature comes out of college or high school that blows both of them away, which I don't see happenining, at least not in our lifetime.
But it's arguable. Some say LeBron is the best, some say Kobe is. I guess it's both right. LeBron does things that make him the best, but then again, Kobe does things that show why he's still the best.
But at the end, it doesn't matter really, because there will always be only one GREATESTOF ALL-TIME, and we all know who that is. HINT: He's from the Bulls, 6 NBA Finals MVPs, 5 regular MVPs, Defensive Player of the Year, and loves to stick out his toungue! ;)
sixringz1
Well when you think to your self hmm jordan the goat... Maybe not because kobe scored 81 on thi day and age it impossible!! even the 62 pts in 3quaters wtf! Kobe right nowis playing in the nba with longer taller stronger plus better def in nba rite now! While jordan plays in the nba with weaker guards shorter players not as much Double teams! and all the above...
I understand you are a fan and you just want to start a thread to illustrate that, but at least have some clue about the history of basketball before saying such idiotic things. At least if you wanna make a case, use something credible. But then again we are on a video game site, so you can't really expect everyone to know more than a 6th grader about sports, but at least those people don't USUALLY make ridiculous comments. "Weaker guards, not as much double teams". If you really believe what you said you know absolutely NOTHING about basketball Yeah, just ask MJ how he feels about Joe Dumars."Again Kobe scored 81 against a subpar Raptors team and had the ball in his hands 90% of the game. I am not trying to take away what Kobe did, but I bet Jordan could have done the same if had been in the same situation as Kobe."
Are you telling me MJ never played "sub-par" teams ?? I know he did. You do know the circumstances of that game, right? Kobe had the ball in his hands during that scoring blitz because his team was down big in the 3rd qtr. Apparently nobody was doing much of anything. So the star player stepped up and got it done. They kept feeding Kobe because he was beyond "hot", as they should have. See, this is what bugs me. If MJ had scored 81 and Kobe hadn't, omg, I would never hear the end of it. Kobe gets 81 and people have to find a way to down grade it as opposed to appreciate it. To me it was the most amazing scoring display in history (eclipsing Wilts, considering the circumstances). "Again", MJ played against many sad teams in his career and wasn't shy about taking shots either, he had plenty of opportunity to score 81 but didn't. MJ didn't even get 71. MJ didn't score beyond the 60's, his highest scoring games came in ot, one was in double ot. Give Kobe his moment and appreciate it, geez!!!,
P.S: Come on sixringz, lighten up on the young man.:D
Again I was not taking anything away from Kobe. The guy I quoted was trying to reason I guess, that because Kobe scored 81 and Jordan did not, Kobe is somehow above Jordan. I was not trying to take away anything from Kobe and that game he had. It was a great game, but for the one guy to say that Kobe is somehow above Jordan because of that is nonsense.Come on man you know me. If someone wants to argue on behalf of their player that's cool but make an argument. If he wanted to say from a fundamental skill standpoint Kobe near the same levelas Jordan that would be cool. If he wanted to say in a few years it's possible that he can have close to the overall accomplishments that Jordan does, that would becool too, because that speaks to the overall ability and career of a player. You can at least make a viable argument with that. This guy is using individual scoring games as his argument. I know gamespot sports forum is also known as LA Lakers/kobe bryant fan club, but geez make it credible at least. I mean under his rational David Thompson is better cause he scored 73 points in a single game and Jordan didn't.I won't even comment on the "weaker guards, shorter players and not as many double teams". That's just complete nonsense. Someone has to school these youngsters."Again Kobe scored 81 against a subpar Raptors team and had the ball in his hands 90% of the game. I am not trying to take away what Kobe did, but I bet Jordan could have done the same if had been in the same situation as Kobe."
Are you telling me MJ never played "sub-par" teams ?? I know he did. You do know the circumstances of that game, right? Kobe had the ball in his hands during that scoring blitz because his team was down big in the 3rd qtr. Apparently nobody was doing much of anything. So the star player stepped up and got it done. They kept feeding Kobe because he was beyond "hot", as they should have. See, this is what bugs me. If MJ had scored 81 and Kobe hadn't, omg, I would never hear the end of it. Kobe gets 81 and people have to find a way to down grade it as opposed to appreciate it. To me it was the most amazing scoring display in history (eclipsing Wilts, considering the circumstances). "Again", MJ played against many sad teams in his career and wasn't shy about taking shots either, he had plenty of opportunity to score 81 but didn't. MJ didn't even get 71. MJ didn't score beyond the 60's, his highest scoring games came in ot, one was in double ot. Give Kobe his moment and appreciate it, geez!!!,
P.S: Come on sixringz, lighten up on the young man.:D
mont13
P.S. To take one out of your handbook just cause jordan DIDN'T score 81 doesn't mean he COULDN'T. ;) You like how i flipped that on you
Lets put it this way. Kobe is more dangerous than Lebron.
[QUOTE="ASK_Story"]
Not the best of all-time, LOL! That title belongs to another #23 NOT LeBron James. ;)
But I do agree that Kobe is still the best in the NBA at the moment. But I also think that it's only a matter of time LeBron takes over, unless some crazy freak of nature comes out of college or high school that blows both of them away, which I don't see happenining, at least not in our lifetime.
But it's arguable. Some say LeBron is the best, some say Kobe is. I guess it's both right. LeBron does things that make him the best, but then again, Kobe does things that show why he's still the best.
But at the end, it doesn't matter really, because there will always be only one GREATESTOF ALL-TIME, and we all know who that is. HINT: He's from the Bulls, 6 NBA Finals MVPs, 5 regular MVPs, Defensive Player of the Year, and loves to stick out his toungue! ;)
Well when you think to your self hmm jordan the goat... Maybe not because kobe scored 81 on thi day and age it impossible!! even the 62 pts in 3quaters wtf! Kobe right nowis playing in the nba with longer taller stronger plus better def in nba rite now! While jordan plays in the nba with weaker guards shorter players not as much Double teams! and all the above...
Again Kobe scored 81 against a subpar Raptors team and had the ball in his hands 90% of the game. I am not trying to take away what Kobe did, but I bet Jordan could have done the same if had been in the same situation as Kobe. Did you watch the game? If Kobe did have the ball that much he could have scored 100.
once lebron wins a chamionship, he will be better!!
i hate the nba, so i dont really care
I Smiled when i saw your avatar....................then a big WTF when i read your sig.................once lebron wins a chamionship, he will be better!!
i hate the nba, so i dont really care
munchlax99
[QUOTE="munchlax99"]I Smiled when i saw your avatar....................then a big WTF when i read your sig.................once lebron wins a chamionship, he will be better!!
i hate the nba, so i dont really care
X360PS3AMD05
I did the same thing. How the hell can you be a Dodgers fan and a Phillies fan? :?
I smiled at your sig though :)
Went to a movie right after my last post, so didn't get to see the response til now. Let's see, what's this about some dude "flippin" my own logic on me, ha,ha! Don't think so.. I used the "just because Kobe didn't doesn't mean he couldn't" logic in response to some dude (the one you erroneously thought was "giving it to me" {maybe that's why you got modded, but I digress} who said Kobe couldn't lead his team to victory against the Dallas Mavericks in the finals as Wade did. If I remember correctly he tried to use as proof Kobe failing to lead the Lakers over Boston last year. My correct response was the difference between Boston's defense and Dallas's D is like night and day. And Kobe has shown over the years that he kills Dallas, likewise Dallas has shown no ability to stop Kobe. So I have support for my reasoning that Kobe could have done the same thing against Dallas that Wade did given the same situation. Oh, come on Mr. Sixringz, use your "superior basketball knowledge", you know Kobe would have killed Dallas also, DALLAS! Come on man!
I also used the "Kobe could have logic" concerning leading the NBA in scoring as Wade did. Once again I have support for that logic; Kobe's done it before when he had a weak/inexperienced support cast as Wade did. Kobe's team just didn't need him to score as much as in the past. But you know he could have, it's not a stretch to think that, uh huh.
Now, concerning MJ scoring 81, there is no support for that. He had a full career to do it but didn't. He played against weak defenses also. He shot more than anyone since Elgin Baylor, yet didn't score past the sixties and needed ot for his 4 best scoring games. Come on fella's "ya'll gon have ta gimme this one", Kobe's a better scorer than MJ! Right?? Please don't come back with the usual list of MJ's other accomplishments, we're talking about this right here...focus, fooocuuus, (this is fun ain't it boy's??!)
See how I flipped your flip, put it in a choke hold and got it to tap out! :P
While I'm at it, let me help my man out concerning the defense, now and then. Yes MJ got double and triple teamed as Kobe does. But you know the zone defense has made it tougher for Kobe to get higher % shots on. Advantage, Jordan. Defender's at Kobe's position? I'll name some of the better defenders Kobe has had to deal with in his career and you name some in MJ's day, just for comparison: Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Shane Battier, to a lesser degree Doug Christie and Ruben Patterson(yeah, he was sort of a clown but a tough nosed defender). I'm probably forgetting others. I know who MJ had, but go for it... Also, in general Kobe has elite players like Lebron, Wade and Carmelo to contend with. Did MJ's competition have the size and ability of those guys? Again I know the answers, but your turn.
You are right about one thing, sixringz, "somebody has to school these youngsters". You make a decent substitute teacher;)
i won't get into your script of a response i'll just comment on one thing. Defenese was A LOT, let me repeat that, A LOT harder in the 80's and early 90's. Forget the fact that you could handcheck the ENTIRE WAY UP THE COURT. The overall way the game was played as opposed to now is night and day. You could basically get away with second degree assault charges back then now you can't blow on somebody without a foul. So i don't even have to name any elite defenders. I can give you average defenders at best, and with the way you were allowed to play back then, their D was just as good as the best of today, once again cause you could get away with SO MUCH MORE back then.Went to a movie right after my last post, so didn't get to see the response til now. Let's see, what's this about some dude "flippin" my own logic on me, ha,ha! Don't think so.. I used the "just because Kobe didn't doesn't mean he couldn't" logic in response to some dude (the one you erroneously thought was "giving it to me" {maybe that's why you got modded, but I digress} who said Kobe couldn't lead his team to victory against the Dallas Mavericks in the finals as Wade did. If I remember correctly he tried to use as proof Kobe failing to lead the Lakers over Boston last year. My correct response was the difference between Boston's defense and Dallas's D is like night and day. And Kobe has shown over the years that he kills Dallas, likewise Dallas has shown no ability to stop Kobe. So I have support for my reasoning that Kobe could have done the same thing against Dallas that Wade did given the same situation. Oh, come on Mr. Sixringz, use your "superior basketball knowledge", you know Kobe would have killed Dallas also, DALLAS! Come on man!
I also used the "Kobe could have logic" concerning leading the NBA in scoring as Wade did. Once again I have support for that logic; Kobe's done it before when he had a weak/inexperienced support cast as Wade did. Kobe's team just didn't need him to score as much as in the past. But you know he could have, it's not a stretch to think that, uh huh.
Now, concerning MJ scoring 81, there is no support for that. He had a full career to do it but didn't. He played against weak defenses also. He shot more than anyone since Elgin Baylor, yet didn't score past the sixties and needed ot for his 4 best scoring games. Come on fella's "ya'll gon have ta gimme this one", Kobe's a better scorer than MJ! Right?? Please don't come back with the usual list of MJ's other accomplishments, we're talking about this right here...focus, fooocuuus, (this is fun ain't it boy's??!)
See how I flipped your flip, put it in a choke hold and got it to tap out! :P
While I'm at it, let me help my man out concerning the defense, now and then. Yes MJ got double and triple teamed as Kobe does. But you know the zone defense has made it tougher for Kobe to get higher % shots on. Advantage, Jordan. Defender's at Kobe's position? I'll name some of the better defenders Kobe has had to deal with in his career and you name some in MJ's day, just for comparison: Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Shane Battier, to a lesser degree Doug Christie and Ruben Patterson(yeah, he was sort of a clown but a tough nosed defender). I'm probably forgetting others. I know who MJ had, but go for it... Also, in general Kobe has elite players like Lebron, Wade and Carmelo to contend with. Did MJ's competition have the size and ability of those guys? Again I know the answers, but your turn.
You are right about one thing, sixringz, "somebody has to school these youngsters". You make a decent substitute teacher;)
mont13
And once again, just cause jordan DIDN'T score 81, doesn't mean he COULDN'T. But that's cool, if you believe since he DIDN'T he COULDN'T, well Kobe has lost in his last 2 finals. COULD he have won? sure. But he DIDN'T. Jordan COULD and DID in ALL OF THEM. NEVER LOST. UNDEFEATED. Do i need to continue or you get the point. See how i did that. Hold onto that single game scoring output.Single gameaccomplishments and records are great. Those are the things that define legends. :roll:Hell Timmy Smith own the all time rushing yards record in a Super Bowl - It's a great honor.
Lebron is good, but Kobe is better.
Lebron is better than Kobe in terms of slam dunks, strength, and maybe speed. These abilities might not be the most effective skills in the game of basketball, but it is indeed a great boost to the team.
Kobe has far better fundamentals than Lebron. He shoots better, he has better ball handling, better decision making, and better in alot of different terms. This is because he had over 10 years to evolve to the best player in the NBA.
Overall, LebronCAN be the better player, but he needs to evolve during the remaining years in the NBA for him. ATM, Kobe is the best.
ummm, i could have sworn it was paul pierce...:P
Oh, I forgot you like it short and sweet, and since I don't want to continue to take up these guys thread with this off topic discussion,I'll make it short. Kobe showed the ablility to domnate Dallas and lead the league in scoring, MJ showed no ability to get 71, let alone 81.My "coulda woulda" statement has more support.
Defense now and then, http://jonesonthenba.com/2008/10/video-proof-celtics-did-kobe-dirty.html , your thoughts.
I just knew it would happen, knew I'd get a MJ won 6 rings comment, even though I was just talking about this one thing. And I wasn't even saying that Kobe getting 81 meant he was better than MJ, or meant anything in particular except that it was an amazing, amazing, mind blowing feat worthy of sincere appreciation from any true B'ball fan. But you're all right with me sixringz;)
GAME TIME!
Oh, I forgot you like it short and sweet, and since I don't want to continue to take up these guys thread with this off topic discussion,I'll make it short. Kobe showed the ablility to domnate Dallas and lead the league in scoring, MJ showed no ability to get 71, let alone 81.My "coulda woulda" statement has more support.
Defense now and then, http://jonesonthenba.com/2008/10/video-proof-celtics-did-kobe-dirty.html , your thoughts.
I just knew it would happen, knew I'd get a MJ won 6 rings comment, even though I was just talking about this one thing. And I wasn't even saying that Kobe getting 81 meant he was better than MJ, or meant anything in particular except that it was an amazing, amazing, mind blowing feat worthy of sincere appreciation from any true B'ball fan. But you're all right with me sixringz;)
GAME TIME!
point one - the only reason i brought up the six rings point and him being better was because that was my initial reply to the post. Original Poster said "best of all time" so everything i have said up to this point stemmed from that comment. You might have just got caught in the crossfire. I've never taken away from Kobe's 81. I was actually watching that game cause my boy had the NBA package at the time. It was amazing. My problem is that people use THAT GAME as their justification as to why he is better than lebron, jordan, kevin duckworth, etc. To make statements like that based on ONE GAME shows a complete lack of intelligence on the sports, or anything for that matter. And as for that video link. I expect more from you. You're better than this, at least i thought. If we were in a courtroom "per say" and you were to use this as evidence to support your case, you would get laughed right out of the room. Did you REALLY, i mean REALLY send me link to different games showing a grand total of roughly 10 minutes of SELECTED footage. I know it's not yours and you were just asking for my opinion, but the fact that you even have a link to something like that leads me to believe you support stuff like this. The whole thing lost ANY CREDIBILITY in the second sentence. "I'm just not sure i agree with the disparaging Michael Jordan comments made by the creator". That sentence right there shows this whole thing was done with an agenda. Don't show me manipulated game highlights, that's a joke. I'm sure i could find similar highlights in favor of Jordan or any other player. People can manipulate ANYTHING like this to the way they want it if they try hard enough. Trust me, i'm in my late 20's and i'm sure you are as old if not older than that. I can distinctly remember basketball in the late 80's and 90's and the way D was played back then, so i know you do to. Unless you just got into bball over the past few years which i doubt, you don't need manipulated highlights to make an argument. You could throw a bench player on ANYONE, not just Jordan, back then and be just as effective as the Bowen's and Battier's of today because you could get away with mugging your opponent and not get calls. People, especially most on this board since they were in elementary school when Jordan was finishing off Utah, just don't understand the differences in styles of play then to now. It's night and day, you know that man.[QUOTE="CleanPlayer"][QUOTE="-Halftime-"]Kobe is better. LeBron is good but Kobe's game is fundamentally superior. Kobe's a better shooter, defender, and clutch player. Kobe has one of the most fundamentally sound games of all time. He's putting on a show in The Finals while LeBron sits at home. Kobe is better.dodgerblue13Agreed, I'm sick of people saying LeBron is better. If Kobe wins these series against Orlando, it''s offical Kobe > LeBron. Kobe is a better shooter, not a better defender, and he is more clutch. He is also six years older. He has also played on the big stage in Los Angeles. The best franchise in NBA history. He's played alongside the most dominant player of all-time. He now has another All-Star big and a fantastic supporting cast. Between the years of Shaq and Pau, Kobe was selfish and wanted out of LA after having Shaq shipped out of town. LeBron is sitting at home because Mo Williams was the only hope for the Cavs. Delonte was marginal at best, Varejao is a role player, Z can't guard a paper bag, and they've absolutely nobody on the bench. If the Lakers beat the Magic, it's not Kobe. He's got other players. LeBron doesn't. He does so much with so little and yet all the Kobe players praise him for winning. LeBron never had anyone around him and he reached the Finals with a bunch of scrubs.
I'll admit, Kobe is unreal. But with what LeBron has done (turned around an entire franchise with no help whatsoever) at his age, 24, is just as impressive as what Kobe has done seeing as how he's 30 and played with Shaq, Fox, Horry, et cetera, et cetera. When the Lakers had no other players, Kobe couldn't make them contenders. Even when he had Odom and Caron Butler, he couldn't make the Lakers a contender. LeBron has done that with far worse than Odom and Butler.
that last paragraph is actually a fair and objective comment although it won't be perceived that way on this board. You will get flamed cause you have a Cavs logo in your sig, and nobody else will entertain that thought cause they are Laker fans. For whatever it's worth i don't care for either teams or players past entertainment stanpoint alone, and the last paragraph is definitely a viable argument.That video say's nothing about me. You are correct in that I was just asking your opinion. I have a computer issue that doesn't allow me to watch videos. I always give people the benefit of the doubt that they will be honest even though they disagree. I just wanted to get your opinion until I could get to work and watch it myself. I assure you I don't lack for intelligence, fairness, objectivity or knowledge on the subject. I didn't have that video, I stumbled across it just before I posted it. Before I posted it my intelligence told me the same thing yours did, that bits and pieces of certain games can't show what went on during a whole era, nonetheles I still wanted to get your opinion, even thogh I knew exactly what you would say.
My age? Let's just say I saw the full era of Dr. J, Bird/Magic, MJ, and today of course.
"You could throw a bench player on anyone back thenand they'ed be as effective as Bowen and Battier", is a gross overstatement, imo. Skilled/stellar defenders like Dumars, Gary Payton, and Dennis Johnson were not just mugging people, they were playing good, hard-nosed, sticky defense and couldn't be replaced by "just any bench player". Bowen, Battier, Artest are no less skilled, maybe more so because they can't hand-check.
I'm ususally very careful about what I say. Note that I didn't say the defense was better today, I said the zone makes it tougher to get high percentage shots, true. And pointed out some of the better defenders in the NBA today.
P.S.: BTW, your statement "you could get away with mugging your opponent and not get calls", didn't apply to ya boy MJ once he became The Mega Star. If you watched him on TV too closely you got called for a foul.;) That's why Magic made that funny comment back then during the Dream Team photo shoot. (See how I flipped yo stuff on you, nephew):)
Kobe is a better shooter, not a better defender, and he is more clutch. He is also six years older. He has also played on the big stage in Los Angeles. The best franchise in NBA history. He's played alongside the most dominant player of all-time. He now has another All-Star big and a fantastic supporting cast. Between the years of Shaq and Pau, Kobe was selfish and wanted out of LA after having Shaq shipped out of town. LeBron is sitting at home because Mo Williams was the only hope for the Cavs. Delonte was marginal at best, Varejao is a role player, Z can't guard a paper bag, and they've absolutely nobody on the bench. If the Lakers beat the Magic, it's not Kobe. He's got other players. LeBron doesn't. He does so much with so little and yet all the Kobe players praise him for winning. LeBron never had anyone around him and he reached the Finals with a bunch of scrubs.[QUOTE="dodgerblue13"][QUOTE="CleanPlayer"]Agreed, I'm sick of people saying LeBron is better. If Kobe wins these series against Orlando, it''s offical Kobe > LeBron. sixringz1
I'll admit, Kobe is unreal. But with what LeBron has done (turned around an entire franchise with no help whatsoever) at his age, 24, is just as impressive as what Kobe has done seeing as how he's 30 and played with Shaq, Fox, Horry, et cetera, et cetera. When the Lakers had no other players, Kobe couldn't make them contenders. Even when he had Odom and Caron Butler, he couldn't make the Lakers a contender. LeBron has done that with far worse than Odom and Butler.
that last paragraph is actually a fair and objective comment although it won't be perceived that way on this board. You will get flamed cause you have a Cavs logo in your sig, and nobody else will entertain that thought cause they are Laker fans. For whatever it's worth i don't care for either teams or players past entertainment stanpoint alone, and the last paragraph is definitely a viable argument.Lebron has done a great job with what he has. I wonder if he would have done as well in the Western Conference playoff race?
Question for you guys: Is Lebron a better player now than MJ was, when MJ was in his 13th season?
Question for you guys: Is Lebron a better player now than MJ was, when MJ was in his 13th season?mont13That would be the Wizard era, I think. I'd give the nod to LeBron, but LeBron can't compare to the rest of Jordan's career yet.
*sigh* This is exactly what I mean. Lakers fans neglect all facts. It's tunnel vision when it comes to Kobe and LeBron. Kobe; 30 years old; on the best franchise in NBA history; 3 championships with an incredible supporting cast, namely the most physically dominant player in NBA history AKA the FINALS MVP EACH OF THE TIMES THAT THE LAKERS WON THE CHAMPIONSHIP THIS DECADE, (What? Kobe wasn't the MVP? Shaq meant much more to the Lakers winning the Finals every time than Kobe did? OH NO!); 3 years of not contending because he didn't have an All-Star team playing with him; demanded that Shaq left LA; wanted out of LA when he couldn't win by himself; got Pau and Bynum stepped up; finally shut his mouth and played the game; Lakers are a Finals contender with Pau Gasol. Okay, Kobe was not the MVP of the Finals, he wasn't the key to those victories, he had stars all around him, without those stars, the Lakers were pretty bad, he finally gets another gem on the post and then, and only then, the Lakers are contenders. LeBron; 24 years old; on the Cleveland Cavaliers; one Finals appearance; Zydrunas was an All-Star in 2003 and 2005, Mo Williams in 2009 [as a replacement]; the Cavs had 17 wins before selecting BronBron and that grew to 35 in his rookie season. LeBron's Cavs went to the Finals with Larry Hughes, Sasha Pavlovic, Drew Gooden, and Zydrunas as the other starters. You give that line-up to Kobe, and he wants to go somewhere else. He can't win with that. Kobe had Shaq and Horry and Fox and Fisher and even more on top of that. Kobe wasn't even the MVP of those Finals wins. He didn't need to be. He had as much talent around him as any team ever could imagine. LeBron turned the Cavaliers into a serious contender with one two-time All-Star and one replacement All-Star. I can't take away those championship rings, but you give LeBron those Lakers and they win. You give Kobe those Cavs and he throws them under the bus and wants more spotlight. There's no way he'd play in Cleveland, Ohio. If none of that means anything to Kobe fans, then there's nothing more I can do.Let's not forget that Lebron has no championship yet, and Kobe has how many? That's right, three and getting fourth after this finals is over.
jmdude
LOL @ LeBron being a better defender than Kobe. Kobe's been on the all defensive first team 8 or 9 times I believe. LeBron is a good defender, but Kobe is a better defender. Just because you see LeBron chase down blocks on Sportscenter doesn't mean he's a better fundamental defensive player. Hell, Dwyane Wade is a better defender. You act like Kobe never played on a crappy team? He played on team with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown as STARTERS, and got them within a win of defeating the Suns in the playoffs. LeBron had a better team in those years than Kobe. Learn some history, because I know all these Cavs fans just started watching basketball when LeBroom came to town.
I guess Cavs fans will latch on to anything to think their cry baby superstar is better. It's just gonna be funny after this series when Kobe has his 4'th ring to LeBrick's ZERO, there's gonna be no comparison, just like there is no comparison now. Kobe is a better basketball player, all around, it's no comparison. Yes, Kobe has a better team, but Kobe is the better player, as well.
Kobe was not the MVP of the Finals, he wasn't the key to those victoriesdodgerblue13
really?
Pacers vs Lakers - Game 4 (shaq fouls out kobe takes over)
I know this isn't the finals but what about Game 7 against Portland in 2000 where Shaq disappeared and Kobe carried the load
Portland vs Lakers - Game 7 (Shaq disappears Kobe takes over)
O'Neal was unable to make a basket in the first 15 minutes and had only 9pts entering the 4th.
So young Kobe had to step up, and at 21, he wasn't afraid of anything or anyone. He did score 25pts but played awesome defense too. His rebounds, assists & Blocks often lead to big plays. He just outplayed NBA great Scottie Pippen, who shouldn't have critisized him at the beginning of the series, in the final two plays of the game.
This was all at age 21 btw
[QUOTE="dodgerblue13"]Kobe was not the MVP of the Finals, he wasn't the key to those victoriesandyboiii
really?
Pacers vs Lakers - Game 4 (shaq fouls out kobe takes over)
I know this isn't the finals but what about Game 7 against Portland in 2000 where Shaq disappeared and Kobe carried the load
Portland vs Lakers - Game 7 (Shaq disappears Kobe takes over)
O'Neal was unable to make a basket in the first 15 minutes and had only 9pts entering the 4th.
So young Kobe had to step up, and at 21, he wasn't afraid of anything or anyone. He did score 25pts but played awesome defense too. His rebounds, assists & Blocks often lead to big plays. He just outplayed NBA great Scottie Pippen, who shouldn't have critisized him at the beginning of the series, in the final two plays of the game.
This was all at age 21 btw
I love when people say Kobe wasn't important to the Lakers three peat and don't know their facts. Anyone that watched any of those Laker teams realized how important Kobe was to all 3 title teams. The overtime against the Pacers was voted as one of the greatest moments in NBA Playoff history by NBA.com, as was the performance against the Blazers. Kobe didn't win Finals MVP, so what? Kobe wasn't chopped liver in ANY of those series, it's not like he was just along for the ride. He was there, playing like a superstar.[QUOTE="andyboiii"] [QUOTE="dodgerblue13"]Kobe was not the MVP of the Finals, he wasn't the key to those victories-Halftime- really? Pacers vs Lakers - Game 4 (shaq fouls out kobe takes over) I know this isn't the finals but what about Game 7 against Portland in 2000 where Shaq disappeared and Kobe carried the load Portland vs Lakers - Game 7 (Shaq disappears Kobe takes over) O'Neal was unable to make a basket in the first 15 minutes and had only 9pts entering the 4th. This was all at age 21 btw
So young Kobe had to step up, and at 21, he wasn't afraid of anything or anyone. He did score 25pts but played awesome defense too. His rebounds, assists & Blocks often lead to big plays. He just outplayed NBA great Scottie Pippen, who shouldn't have critisized him at the beginning of the series, in the final two plays of the game.
Elitism
Andsports fanswonder why some people are hesitant to get into sports, when they're the reason for it.
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