I'm a little surprised considering what happened in 99' with Pedro, but I think he all and all deserved it.
PSP107
Pitchers dont deserved to be MVPs. They don't play everyday. But they have a greater effect on the game than hitters when they do play. Verlander faced more batters than, say, Ellsbury had at-bats.
What's up with all this Jacoby whining by Sox fans? Take Ellsbury out and what you got? That's right: A-Gone, David Ortiz, Kevin Youkilis, Dustin Pedroira and Carl Crawford. So STFU.
What's up with all this Jacoby whining by Sox fans? Take Ellsbury out and what you got? That's right: A-Gone, David Ortiz, Kevin Youkilis, Dustin Pedroira and Carl Crawford. So STFU. Master_Live
Take Bautista out of Toronto and we got Travis Snider in right. And probably a 60 win team with no hope for this year. That's why I think he should be second. Heck you could make a case for him to have been first. Put Jo-Jo Reyes (for example) in for JV and they still make the playoffs by 5 games. But JV is very deserving.
[QUOTE="Master_Live"]What's up with all this Jacoby whining by Sox fans? Take Ellsbury out and what you got? That's right: A-Gone, David Ortiz, Kevin Youkilis, Dustin Pedroira and Carl Crawford. So STFU. JohnBean42
Take Bautista out of Toronto and we got Travis Snider in right. And probably a 60 win team with no hope for this year. That's why I think he should be second. Heck you could make a case for him to have been first. Put Jo-Jo Reyes (for example) in for JV and they still make the playoffs by 5 games. But JV is very deserving. I could make a case for JB too, but I wouldn't like too :P
[QUOTE="JohnBean42"][QUOTE="Master_Live"]What's up with all this Jacoby whining by Sox fans? Take Ellsbury out and what you got? That's right: A-Gone, David Ortiz, Kevin Youkilis, Dustin Pedroira and Carl Crawford. So STFU. Master_Live
Take Bautista out of Toronto and we got Travis Snider in right. And probably a 60 win team with no hope for this year. That's why I think he should be second. Heck you could make a case for him to have been first. Put Jo-Jo Reyes (for example) in for JV and they still make the playoffs by 5 games. But JV is very deserving. I could make a case for JB too, but I wouldn't like too :P Of course not, you're a Yankees fan:P
Debatable if he was even the best in the AL. 24 Wins seem to still go a long way, it was not a historic pitching performance. This of course means "getting your team there" still means a lot to the old geezers so Kemp won't win. They say the term "valuable" lets you get away with these things.......whatevs
I'm a little surprised considering what happened in 99' with PedroBoston_Boyy
+1 Fangraphs weighs in http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-neglected-the-best-non-mvp-al-players/http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-case-for-jacoby-ellsbury/http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-case-for-jose-bautista/http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-case-for-justin-verlander/
I'm a little surprised considering what happened in 99' with Pedro, but I think he all and all deserved it.
Pitchers dont deserved to be MVPs. They don't play everyday. But they have a greater effect on the game than hitters when they do play. Verlander faced more batters than, say, Ellsbury had at-bats. hitters play everyday and have to play a defensive position.
[QUOTE="JohnBean42"][QUOTE="PSP107"] Pitchers dont deserved to be MVPs. They don't play everyday.PSP107
But they have a greater effect on the game than hitters when they do play. Verlander faced more batters than, say, Ellsbury had at-bats. hitters play everyday and have to play a defensive position. Good point about D, but IDK how much of a factor that is. If it was, then you definitely give it to JB. He played RF and 3B at gold glove calibur, and didn't miss a beat when he moved back to right during and a few weeks after the ASG. No one else played two drastically different positions from what I see on the ballot.
[QUOTE="PSP107"][QUOTE="JohnBean42"] But they have a greater effect on the game than hitters when they do play. Verlander faced more batters than, say, Ellsbury had at-bats.JohnBean42
hitters play everyday and have to play a defensive position. Good point about D, but IDK how much of a factor that is. If it was, then you definitely give it to JB. He played RF and 3B at gold glove calibur, and didn't miss a beat when he moved back to right during and a few weeks after the ASG. No one else played two drastically different positions from what I see on the ballot. and that must be wear on these everyday players. starting pitchers pitch every 5th day?
I'm a little surprised considering what happened in 99' with Pedro, but I think he all and all deserved it.
PSP107
Pitchers dont deserved to be MVPs. They don't play everyday.Yeah however, Verlander directly affected nearly 1,000 plate apperances this year (969) while the most plate apperances any position player had was 749 (Pedroia). I know you can get into the well players play defense everyday which is a fair point, but I don't think the playing everything day is that important when it comes to true value.
Debatable if he was even the best in the AL. 24 Wins seem to still go a long way, it was not a historic pitching performance. This of course means "getting your team there" still means a lot to the old geezers so Kemp won't win. They say the term "valuable" lets you get away with these things.......whatevs [QUOTE="Boston_Boyy"]I'm a little surprised considering what happened in 99' with PedroX360PS3AMD05
Yes it was. He won the pitching triple crown. Is it the best ever? Nop. But pretty good.
[QUOTE="X360PS3AMD05"]Debatable if he was even the best in the AL. 24 Wins seem to still go a long way, it was not a historic pitching performance. This of course means "getting your team there" still means a lot to the old geezers so Kemp won't win. They say the term "valuable" lets you get away with these things.......whatevs [QUOTE="Boston_Boyy"]I'm a little surprised considering what happened in 99' with PedroMaster_Live
Yes it was. He won the pitching triple crown. Is it the best ever? Nop. But pretty good.
Verlander tied with Bautista for AL WAR lead
Even though I said JV deserved it, I think JB should have won it. Like Kemp, he was the best everyday player in the AL, but not most "valuable" because we were never near the playoffs, like JV in the AL or Braun in NL.
Yes it was. He won the pitching triple crown. Is it the best ever? Nop. But pretty good.
Verlander tied with Bautista for AL WAR lead
Even though I said JV deserved it, I think JB should have won it. Like Kemp, he was the best everyday player in the AL, but not most "valuable" because we were never near the playoffs, like JV in the AL or Braun in NL.
How could he possibly win the Most VALUABLE Player award when you admit that, and I quote: "not the most valuable".
Yes it was. He won the pitching triple crown. Is it the best ever? Nop. But pretty good.
Verlander tied with Bautista for AL WAR lead
Master_Live
Even though I said JV deserved it, I think JB should have won it. Like Kemp, he was the best everyday player in the AL, but not most "valuable" because we were never near the playoffs, like JV in the AL or Braun in NL.
How could he possibly win the Most VALUABLE Player award when you admit that, and I quote: "not the most valuable".
That's what wrong with it. What's valuable to one team is different from another. I like "most outstanding player" better. I still stand by what I've said and think playoffs shouldn't be taken into account. Like, how does Halladay finish ahead of Kershaw, but lose the Cy? Cause he had better teammates and got to the playoffs, so he was more "valuable" since they got there. The 24 other guys shouldn't effect how that player is perceived. I've read players feel the same way. Bautista himself, Brandon McCarthy, C.J Wilson, ans some others on Twitter think this too. Plus I quoted valuable, being sarcastic, cause I said he wasn't close to the playoffs. I think him and Kemp were the two best players in baseball though.
I'm a little surprised considering what happened in 99' with Pedro, but I think he all and all deserved it.
Pitchers dont deserved to be MVPs. They don't play everyday.Yeah however, Verlander directly affected nearly 1,000 plate apperances this year (969) while the most plate apperances any position player had was 749 (Pedroia). I know you can get into the well players play defense everyday which is a fair point, but I don't think the playing everything day is that important when it comes to true value. True Value? Verlander doesnt contribute on offense.
"Without Miggy Cabrera he doesn't win 24 games" - Mitch Williams on MLBN, snap! ^^Pitching triple crown is an old school stat, of course now we know those stats aren't the best at deciding who the best pitcher is, once again CC Sabathia was right there so i'm surprised ML Yankee fan isn't making a case for his guy. All day long people will go on saying "Value" is in getting you to the playoffs, but some will say being 1/25th of that picture can't make you that big of a factor so just judge them based on individual performance. Ind. Per. does kinda tell you who was the most "valuable" if they were the best player......hmmm
But isn't that the eternal question? Who should get the MVP? Is it the best player (Kemp, Bautista) or the guy that if you take them out of a team that team would fold? I take into account if a team make the playoffs but it isn't at the top of the for sure. How can Braun be the most valuable when he has Fielder hitting behind him? Would that team be that bad with a replacement player instead? Anyways, this discussion surfaces every year.
But isn't that the eternal question? Who should get the MVP? Is it the best player (Kemp, Bautista) or the guy that if you take them out of a team that team would fold? I take into account if a team make the playoffs but it isn't at the top of the for sure. How can Braun be the most valuable when he has Fielder hitting behind him? Would that team be that bad with a replacement player instead? Anyways, this discussion surfaces every year.
But isn't that the eternal question? Who should get the MVP? Is it the best player (Kemp, Bautista) or the guy that if you take them out of a team that team would fold? I take into account if a team make the playoffs but it isn't at the top of the for sure. How can Braun be the most valuable when he has Fielder hitting behind him? Would that team be that bad with a replacement player instead? Anyways, this discussion surfaces every year.
I agree with this. what an unfair argument. That because he hits behind a Feilder makers him not worthy of MVP votes? If anything, Braun supporters can argue that he delivered of hitting behind Fielder.
But isn't that the eternal question? Who should get the MVP? Is it the best player (Kemp, Bautista) or the guy that if you take them out of a team that team would fold? I take into account if a team make the playoffs but it isn't at the top of the for sure. How can Braun be the most valuable when he has Fielder hitting behind him? Would that team be that bad with a replacement player instead? Anyways, this discussion surfaces every year.
PSP107
I agree with this. what an unfair argument. That because he hits behind a Feilder makers him not worthy of MVP votes? If anything, Braun supporters can argue that he delivered of hitting behind Fielder. Braun hits in front of Fielder.
"b. All Players will be subject to a policy governing the use of Social Media." The LoMo rule in the CBA? I wonder what it means ^ Not to mention the fact that the NL West has more pitcher friendly parks Matty "Juan Uribe and Loney Baloney hit behind me" Kemp had to play in.
[QUOTE="PSP107"][QUOTE="JohnBean42"] I agree with this. Master_Live
what an unfair argument. That because he hits behind a Feilder makers him not worthy of MVP votes? If anything, Braun supporters can argue that he delivered of hitting behind Fielder. Braun hits in front of Fielder. front, back, it shouldnt matter in the mvp votes. If anythingl, hitting in front of feilder makes Braun's mvp votes that more better.
[QUOTE="Master_Live"]What's up with all this Jacoby whining by Sox fans? Take Ellsbury out and what you got? That's right: A-Gone, David Ortiz, Kevin Youkilis, Dustin Pedroira and Carl Crawford. So STFU. JohnBean42
Take Bautista out of Toronto and we got Travis Snider in right. And probably a 60 win team with no hope for this year. That's why I think he should be second. Heck you could make a case for him to have been first. Put Jo-Jo Reyes (for example) in for JV and they still make the playoffs by 5 games. But JV is very deserving.
If the Jays made the playoffs I could have seen Bautista winning the award. The Baseball Writer's Association, who make-up all of the votes, think highly of an MVP playing for a playoff team.
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