Red Sox to include Ellsbury for Santana deal

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071202&content_id=2315278&vkey=hotstove2007&fext=.jsp:|

ESPN.com -- citing sources -- reported Sunday that Boston had backed off its refusal to include Ellsbury. But if Ellsbury is to be in the deal, the Red Sox will pull back left-handed starter Jon Lester.

At least Jon Lester won't be traded too if it happens as that will be giving too much to the Twins. I think the Red Sox now have a better chance in landing Santana, but who knows what will happen.

They will do what they want so i'm not going to worry to much. But if Ellsbury leaves I'd be sad. Plus I don't see it happening. We need a centerfielde4r if they let coco go.

If the deal does go through, the Sox are going to have so many pitchers. :lol:

Which is a good thing.

honestly i doubt this elsbury dude is even gonna have a great career hes too overrated IMO Sox fans treating him like the second coming of Babe Ruth.NetYankEagle

[QUOTE="NetYankEagle"]honestly i doubt this elsbury dude is even gonna have a great career hes too overrated IMO Sox fans treating him like the second coming of Babe Ruth.Sports-Fan

[QUOTE="Sports-Fan"][QUOTE="NetYankEagle"]honestly i doubt this elsbury dude is even gonna have a great career hes too overrated IMO Sox fans treating him like the second coming of Babe Ruth.NetYankEagle

You said he was the next Roger Clemens. Thats about the same thing.

[QUOTE="NetYankEagle"][QUOTE="Sports-Fan"][QUOTE="NetYankEagle"]honestly i doubt this elsbury dude is even gonna have a great career hes too overrated IMO Sox fans treating him like the second coming of Babe Ruth.Just_Osmo

You said he was the next Roger Clemens. Thats about the same thing.

Exactly. He obviously isn't basing his opinions on fanboyism.:roll:

[QUOTE="NetYankEagle"][QUOTE="Sports-Fan"][QUOTE="NetYankEagle"]honestly i doubt this elsbury dude is even gonna have a great career hes too overrated IMO Sox fans treating him like the second coming of Babe Ruth.Just_Osmo

You said he was the next Roger Clemens. Thats about the same thing.

Phil Hughes was voted the No.1 pitching prospect in many minor league publications. Bucholz was also rated very high,yet not as highly touted as Hughes. Lester was projected as a number 3 starter, at best, coming up.

As a side note Ian kennedy won AAA pitcher of the year award last season.

I don't understand Red Sox. Ellsbury is pretty good, but not Santana good, and I don't think Lester is as good as some people make him out to be. You are getting the best pitcher in the league, and with thim on the roster you have a rotation that has Santana, Beckett, Masutzaka, Schilling, Wakefield, and Buchholz. I don't get it. This could be a dynasty in making with 2 bonafide aces and two potential aces. Also, it's not like Coco Crisp is a bad CF anyways. Red Sox improve their pitching by miles and still come away with a very good lineup for the next season.
dkhw

[QUOTE="dkhw"]I don't understand Red Sox. Ellsbury is pretty good, but not Santana good, and I don't think Lester is as good as some people make him out to be. You are getting the best pitcher in the league, and with thim on the roster you have a rotation that has Santana, Beckett, Masutzaka, Schilling, Wakefield, and Buchholz. I don't get it. This could be a dynasty in making with 2 bonafide aces and two potential aces. Also, it's not like Coco Crisp is a bad CF anyways. Red Sox improve their pitching by miles and still come away with a very good lineup for the next season.
Just_Osmo

Not good enough. Jed Lowrie will be a decent player, but Twins still need to get two prospects who can be a decen impact players.

[QUOTE="Just_Osmo"]

[QUOTE="dkhw"]I don't understand Red Sox. Ellsbury is pretty good, but not Santana good, and I don't think Lester is as good as some people make him out to be. You are getting the best pitcher in the league, and with thim on the roster you have a rotation that has Santana, Beckett, Masutzaka, Schilling, Wakefield, and Buchholz. I don't get it. This could be a dynasty in making with 2 bonafide aces and two potential aces. Also, it's not like Coco Crisp is a bad CF anyways. Red Sox improve their pitching by miles and still come away with a very good lineup for the next season.
dkhw

Not good enough. Jed Lowrie will be a decent player, but Twins still need to get two prospects who can be a decen impact players.

I forget what pitching prospect they offered. But if the Yankees are not in the talks then that package looks better then everyone elses so far.

[QUOTE="dkhw"][QUOTE="Just_Osmo"]

[QUOTE="dkhw"]I don't understand Red Sox. Ellsbury is pretty good, but not Santana good, and I don't think Lester is as good as some people make him out to be. You are getting the best pitcher in the league, and with thim on the roster you have a rotation that has Santana, Beckett, Masutzaka, Schilling, Wakefield, and Buchholz. I don't get it. This could be a dynasty in making with 2 bonafide aces and two potential aces. Also, it's not like Coco Crisp is a bad CF anyways. Red Sox improve their pitching by miles and still come away with a very good lineup for the next season.
Just_Osmo

Not good enough. Jed Lowrie will be a decent player, but Twins still need to get two prospects who can be a decen impact players.

I forget what pitching prospect they offered. But if the Yankees are not in the talks then that package looks better then everyone elses so far.

Angels are in talk with the Twins and what they offer will be much better than what Red Sox is willing to give up right now.

[QUOTE="Just_Osmo"][QUOTE="dkhw"][QUOTE="Just_Osmo"]

[QUOTE="dkhw"]I don't understand Red Sox. Ellsbury is pretty good, but not Santana good, and I don't think Lester is as good as some people make him out to be. You are getting the best pitcher in the league, and with thim on the roster you have a rotation that has Santana, Beckett, Masutzaka, Schilling, Wakefield, and Buchholz. I don't get it. This could be a dynasty in making with 2 bonafide aces and two potential aces. Also, it's not like Coco Crisp is a bad CF anyways. Red Sox improve their pitching by miles and still come away with a very good lineup for the next season.
dkhw

Not good enough. Jed Lowrie will be a decent player, but Twins still need to get two prospects who can be a decen impact players.

I forget what pitching prospect they offered. But if the Yankees are not in the talks then that package looks better then everyone elses so far.

Angels are in talk with the Twins and what they offer will be much better than what Red Sox is willing to give up right now.

We will see. Next few weeks will be rumor filled and tense.

[QUOTE="Just_Osmo"][QUOTE="dkhw"][QUOTE="Just_Osmo"]

[QUOTE="dkhw"]I don't understand Red Sox. Ellsbury is pretty good, but not Santana good, and I don't think Lester is as good as some people make him out to be. You are getting the best pitcher in the league, and with thim on the roster you have a rotation that has Santana, Beckett, Masutzaka, Schilling, Wakefield, and Buchholz. I don't get it. This could be a dynasty in making with 2 bonafide aces and two potential aces. Also, it's not like Coco Crisp is a bad CF anyways. Red Sox improve their pitching by miles and still come away with a very good lineup for the next season.
dkhw

Not good enough. Jed Lowrie will be a decent player, but Twins still need to get two prospects who can be a decen impact players.

I forget what pitching prospect they offered. But if the Yankees are not in the talks then that package looks better then everyone elses so far.

Angels are in talk with the Twins and what they offer will be much better than what Red Sox is willing to give up right now.

Wow the Angels? They have the best farm system in football except maybe Devil Rays. If they're serious about Santana, the Sox should say good bye to him right now.

[QUOTE="dkhw"][QUOTE="Just_Osmo"][QUOTE="dkhw"][QUOTE="Just_Osmo"]

[QUOTE="dkhw"]I don't understand Red Sox. Ellsbury is pretty good, but not Santana good, and I don't think Lester is as good as some people make him out to be. You are getting the best pitcher in the league, and with thim on the roster you have a rotation that has Santana, Beckett, Masutzaka, Schilling, Wakefield, and Buchholz. I don't get it. This could be a dynasty in making with 2 bonafide aces and two potential aces. Also, it's not like Coco Crisp is a bad CF anyways. Red Sox improve their pitching by miles and still come away with a very good lineup for the next season.
manningbowl135

Not good enough. Jed Lowrie will be a decent player, but Twins still need to get two prospects who can be a decen impact players.

I forget what pitching prospect they offered. But if the Yankees are not in the talks then that package looks better then everyone elses so far.

Angels are in talk with the Twins and what they offer will be much better than what Red Sox is willing to give up right now.

Wow the Angels? They have the best farm system in football except maybe Devil Rays. If they're serious about Santana, the Sox should say good bye to him right now.

LOL...football...well, if Angels are willing to part with Weaver and Adenhart, yeah, Angels will have the best starting pitching next season.

[QUOTE="dkhw"][QUOTE="Just_Osmo"][QUOTE="dkhw"][QUOTE="Just_Osmo"]

[QUOTE="dkhw"]I don't understand Red Sox. Ellsbury is pretty good, but not Santana good, and I don't think Lester is as good as some people make him out to be. You are getting the best pitcher in the league, and with thim on the roster you have a rotation that has Santana, Beckett, Masutzaka, Schilling, Wakefield, and Buchholz. I don't get it. This could be a dynasty in making with 2 bonafide aces and two potential aces. Also, it's not like Coco Crisp is a bad CF anyways. Red Sox improve their pitching by miles and still come away with a very good lineup for the next season.
manningbowl135

Not good enough. Jed Lowrie will be a decent player, but Twins still need to get two prospects who can be a decen impact players.

I forget what pitching prospect they offered. But if the Yankees are not in the talks then that package looks better then everyone elses so far.

Angels are in talk with the Twins and what they offer will be much better than what Red Sox is willing to give up right now.

Wow the Angels? They have the best farm system in football except maybe Devil Rays. If they're serious about Santana, the Sox should say good bye to him right now.

Well thank god all they have is football players. Because last I checked the Twins don't need any running backs or wide receivers!

[QUOTE="manningbowl135"][QUOTE="dkhw"][QUOTE="Just_Osmo"][QUOTE="dkhw"][QUOTE="Just_Osmo"]

[QUOTE="dkhw"]I don't understand Red Sox. Ellsbury is pretty good, but not Santana good, and I don't think Lester is as good as some people make him out to be. You are getting the best pitcher in the league, and with thim on the roster you have a rotation that has Santana, Beckett, Masutzaka, Schilling, Wakefield, and Buchholz. I don't get it. This could be a dynasty in making with 2 bonafide aces and two potential aces. Also, it's not like Coco Crisp is a bad CF anyways. Red Sox improve their pitching by miles and still come away with a very good lineup for the next season.
Just_Osmo

Not good enough. Jed Lowrie will be a decent player, but Twins still need to get two prospects who can be a decen impact players.

I forget what pitching prospect they offered. But if the Yankees are not in the talks then that package looks better then everyone elses so far.

Angels are in talk with the Twins and what they offer will be much better than what Red Sox is willing to give up right now.

Wow the Angels? They have the best farm system in football except maybe Devil Rays. If they're serious about Santana, the Sox should say good bye to him right now.

Well thank god all they have is football players. Because last I checked the Twins don't need any running backs or wide receivers!

haha...simple mistake. I talk about football mostly so...:)

[QUOTE="Just_Osmo"][QUOTE="manningbowl135"][QUOTE="dkhw"][QUOTE="Just_Osmo"][QUOTE="dkhw"][QUOTE="Just_Osmo"]

[QUOTE="dkhw"]I don't understand Red Sox. Ellsbury is pretty good, but not Santana good, and I don't think Lester is as good as some people make him out to be. You are getting the best pitcher in the league, and with thim on the roster you have a rotation that has Santana, Beckett, Masutzaka, Schilling, Wakefield, and Buchholz. I don't get it. This could be a dynasty in making with 2 bonafide aces and two potential aces. Also, it's not like Coco Crisp is a bad CF anyways. Red Sox improve their pitching by miles and still come away with a very good lineup for the next season.
manningbowl135

Not good enough. Jed Lowrie will be a decent player, but Twins still need to get two prospects who can be a decen impact players.

I forget what pitching prospect they offered. But if the Yankees are not in the talks then that package looks better then everyone elses so far.

Angels are in talk with the Twins and what they offer will be much better than what Red Sox is willing to give up right now.

Wow the Angels? They have the best farm system in football except maybe Devil Rays. If they're serious about Santana, the Sox should say good bye to him right now.

Well thank god all they have is football players. Because last I checked the Twins don't need any running backs or wide receivers!

haha...simple mistake. I talk about football mostly so...:)

I know i was just ridin yah :-)

I don't want them giving up Ellsbury either. digiram79

Looks liek we wont have to. We are the only bidder left for santana.

[QUOTE="digiram79"]I don't want them giving up Ellsbury either. Just_Osmo

Looks liek we wont have to. We are the only bidder left for santana.

Seems like the Mariners are showing interest and are willing to trade a top OF prospect and a pitcher, but the likelyhood they would land Santana is unlikely.

Link

[QUOTE="Just_Osmo"]

[QUOTE="digiram79"]I don't want them giving up Ellsbury either. cobb45

Looks liek we wont have to. We are the only bidder left for santana.

Seems like the Mariners are showing interest and are willing to trade a top OF prospect and a pitcher, but the likelyhood they would land Santana is unlikely.

Link

Mariners are my favorite team. They're willing to give up a great OF prospect and their 5th overall pick from last year: pitcher Morrow. That's a good deal, but the big problem lies with Santana. He may want more money than M's can give him and he probably wants a bigger market. Either way, it'll be my dream scenario if my favorite pitcher goes to my favorite team. Ichiro FTW!

I have been trying to pay attention to this too. I dont think they should give ellsbury up. Hes not worth putting in to get santana. I think the prospect coco and lester(that im not too happy about giving away) is good enough. If we cant get santana without giving up ellsbury, then i think its a stupid move by the sox.Soxguy09

Here lies the problem...greedy Boston fans who want somehow for the Twins to gift them the best pitcher in the league for a poo poo platter. Maybe those 86 years of not knowing how to win has damage their brains when they can't seen to comprehend that the main goal of the game is to win the damm WS not to have the best prospects. Now I ask u **** Boston fans, do you want to become a dynasty like the Yanks were in the 90's, the Reds in the 70's and the Yanks in the 60's?... Then ship Ellsbury and whatever the Twins want without killing your farm system and get Santana and be happy. But no, u want to get both things or better yet; u want the Yanks and other teams to have a chance to catch u?

Idiot Boston fans can't see the gold even when it from of them. Its like they're afraid of winning.

[QUOTE="cobb45"][QUOTE="Just_Osmo"]

[QUOTE="digiram79"]I don't want them giving up Ellsbury either. manningbowl135

Looks liek we wont have to. We are the only bidder left for santana.

Seems like the Mariners are showing interest and are willing to trade a top OF prospect and a pitcher, but the likelyhood they would land Santana is unlikely.

Link

Mariners are my favorite team. They're willing to give up a great OF prospect and their 5th overall pick from last year: pitcher Morrow. That's a good deal, but the big problem lies with Santana. He may want more money than M's can give him and he probably wants a bigger market. Either way, it'll be my dream scenario if my favorite pitcher goes to my favorite team. Ichiro FTW!

They'd probably have to make another deal like with Ichiro where they're paying the guy until the end of time. What happens when the Mariners are playing 10 or 15 years down the road and they're still paying these guys?

[QUOTE="manningbowl135"][QUOTE="cobb45"][QUOTE="Just_Osmo"]

[QUOTE="digiram79"]I don't want them giving up Ellsbury either. duxup

Looks liek we wont have to. We are the only bidder left for santana.

Seems like the Mariners are showing interest and are willing to trade a top OF prospect and a pitcher, but the likelyhood they would land Santana is unlikely.

Link

Mariners are my favorite team. They're willing to give up a great OF prospect and their 5th overall pick from last year: pitcher Morrow. That's a good deal, but the big problem lies with Santana. He may want more money than M's can give him and he probably wants a bigger market. Either way, it'll be my dream scenario if my favorite pitcher goes to my favorite team. Ichiro FTW!

They'd probably have to make another deal like with Ichiro where they're paying the guy until the end of time. What happens when the Mariners are playing 10 or 15 years down the road and they're still paying these guys?

Well to be fair the Mariners are right after Yankees and Red Sox for highest payroll in baseball. So it's not like the owner is afraid of paying players.

[QUOTE="Soxguy09"]I have been trying to pay attention to this too. I dont think they should give ellsbury up. Hes not worth putting in to get santana. I think the prospect coco and lester(that im not too happy about giving away) is good enough. If we cant get santana without giving up ellsbury, then i think its a stupid move by the sox.Master_Live

Here lies the problem...greedy Boston fans who want somehow for the Twins to gift them the best pitcher in the league for a poo poo platter. Maybe those 86 years of not knowing how to win has damage their brains when they can't seen to comprehend that the main goal of the game is to win the damm WS not to have the best prospects. Now I ask u **** Boston fans, do you want to become a dynasty like the Yanks were in the 90's, the Reds in the 70's and the Yanks in the 60's?... Then ship Ellsbury and whatever the Twins want without killing your farm system and get Santana and be happy. But no, u want to get both things or better yet; u want the Yanks and other teams to have a chance to catch u?

Idiot Boston fans can't see the gold even when it from of them. Its like they're afraid of winning.

Exactly. Santana is the best pitcher in baseball, maybe by far the best pitcher in baseball. Boston fans want the Twins to give him away, in his prime I might add, for an outfielder who hit .268 last year and can't hit for power and a prospect pitcher who was never, ever among the highest touted in the majors. They didn't mind giving up their best prospect for Josh Beckett, Hanley Ramirez, who was probably a top 5 hitter last season, but for Santana, who is a thousand times better than Beckett was back then, they're lowballing the Twins. It's just so freaking stupid. He was ripe for the picking Boston! Yankees were out and you were the only ones left. If you just sweetened the offer just a bit, you could probably get a deal done. Now the Mariners and Angels have joined the party and who knows what you have to give up or if you get him at all. If they lose Santana b/c they didn't want to give up Ellsbury or some other prospect, it's akin to self-sabotage.