vick when he played for a GOOD coach....(dan reeves) he could help ur team

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5g3G1J5fcQ

I don't want him anywhere near my teams.

he was overrated when he played. Horrible pocket passer, great athlete. He had one really good season. Hell, at least Mark Rypien won the super bowl in his really good year. And Dan Reeves being a good coach. HA HA. This is the same guy who got run out of Denver because his quarterback, without quoting word for word, said something to the extent "Either he goes or I go cause we can't win with him as our coach". And i'll be damned if Shannahan didn't jump right in and all the sudden the Broncos won 2 superbowls. But back to Vick, i don't wanna come off as a hater, i just never thought he was that good. He was more of a show than a good qb. But he does deserve another chance. Everyone is forgetting one MAJOR fact though. In Atlanta, they restructured THEIR ENTIRE OFFENSIVE PLAYBOOK to fit Vick's UNIQUE abilities. Which was unprecedented. Don't think for a minute another team will rush to do the same. It's not gonna be as easy a transititon back as some people think

I'm not a huge fan of Vick, but I dunno if I would go that far. He's had three consecutive seasons of over 2,000 yards passing and almost 3,000 the year before he was injured. He also averaged 7.5, 5.9, and 8.4 yards rushing the last three seasons he played and racked up 902, 597, and 1,039 yards rushing. My biggest problem with him, turnovers. His first few seasons he was very good with intereceptions, but the last few his interception numbers almost match his TD numbers. He's also fumbled 36 balls in the last three seasons and lost 15 of them. His completion percentage isn't the greatest, not the worst either, though.

Is he overrated? Probably. He's not an elite passer by any means. Still, he's better than a decent number of starters this year and there are a few teams I think could do something with him, especially if they go Wildcat. I'm actually starting to think he'd be a great fit in Minnesota, especially with them talking using the Wildcat with Harvin. I know if I were a Minnesota fan I'd rather have him under center than Favre.

I'm not a huge fan of Vick, but I dunno if I would go that far. He's had three consecutive seasons of over 2,000 yards passing and almost 3,000 the year before he was injured. He also averaged 7.5, 5.9, and 8.4 yards rushing the last three seasons he played and racked up 902, 597, and 1,039 yards rushing. My biggest problem with him, turnovers. His first few seasons he was very good with intereceptions, but the last few his interception numbers almost match his TD numbers. He's also fumbled 36 balls in the last three seasons and lost 15 of them. His completion percentage isn't the greatest, not the worst either, though.

Is he overrated? Probably. He's not an elite passer by any means. Still, he's better than a decent number of starters this year and there are a few teams I think could do something with him, especially if they go Wildcat. I'm actually starting to think he'd be a great fit in Minnesota, especially with them talking using the Wildcat with Harvin. I know if I were a Minnesota fan I'd rather have him under center than Favre.

theone86

the vick hate from NFL fans runs rampent....but NFL scouts and GM'S that watch videos like this of vick see huge potential with good coaching. in this video vick proves he can pass from the pocket and make plays with his legs at the same time.

if dan reeves was never fired and vick didnt fight dogs ....we could be mentioning vicks name with the names of tom brady and peyton manning

His completion percentage never broke the fifties. I mean that's decent, but you look at a guy like Brady and he's consistently putting up 60%+ completion numbers every season. If I had to be fair, I'd put Vick somewhere in between someone like Roethlisberger and someone like Orton. He's not an elite QB, but he is good enough to be a starter and one of the better starters at that.

As for Favre, it's not only that he throws interceptions but that he throws them at key moments. Add that to his health. Yeah, I know he might be cleared, but how much longer can he stay completely healthy? We know as soon as he starts feeling the pain his numbers decline, and if that's going to be during the second half of the season, which no one can reasonaby predict, that could be a major problem for the Vikings. They have their toughest part of teh schedule down the stretch and they want to be able to take advantage of the Williams Wall coming back, not having their D trying to play catch up. I'll accept the argument that Vick might not be game-ready, but if it were me personally I'd still rather have Vick because at least I could bench him and use him in Wildcat situations in a limited role while having T-Jack or Sage start, then have Vick ready to start next season. That's a better scenario for me than taking a huge risk on Favre.

if dan reeves was never fired and vick didnt fight dogs ....we could be mentioning vicks name with the names of tom brady and peyton manning

bytgames

Why do you insult Vick all the time?

So what you're saying is that he's such a bad player that unless he has the exact kind of help he's a failure? I mean if he's really this incompetent then how can he ever be a good player let alone a great one?

If Vick was ever to reach the upper tier of players it would mean he actually is a good player no matter what else was going on.

Joe Montana was still the greatest when Bill Walsh left, he didn't go downhill once he left

[QUOTE="bytgames"]

if dan reeves was never fired and vick didnt fight dogs ....we could be mentioning vicks name with the names of tom brady and peyton manning

Jaysonguy

Why do you insult Vick all the time?

So what you're saying is that he's such a bad player that unless he has the exact kind of help he's a failure? I mean if he's really this incompetent then how can he ever be a good player let alone a great one?

If Vick was ever to reach the upper tier of players it would mean he actually is a good player no matter what else was going on.

Joe Montana was still the greatest when Bill Walsh left, he didn't go downhill once he left

you bring up an interesting point....and let me respond.....no joe montana didnt ever slip up....but he never played for a coach as bad as jim mora jr or gregg knapp as an offensive coordniator....to prove my point how bad they were.....those guys completly ran the great 49ers into the ground before they came to the falcons...gregg knapp was san frans O coordinator, and jim mora jr the D coordinator when the 49ers started to suck.....they then came to the falcons and ran vick and the falcons into the ground.

the vick hate from NFL fans runs rampent....but NFL scouts and GM'S that watch videos like this of vick see huge potential with good coaching. in this video vick proves he can pass from the pocket and make plays with his legs at the same time.

if dan reeves was never fired and vick didnt fight dogs ....we could be mentioning vicks name with the names of tom brady and peyton manning

bytgames

[QUOTE="bytgames"]

the vick hate from NFL fans runs rampent....but NFL scouts and GM'S that watch videos like this of vick see huge potential with good coaching. in this video vick proves he can pass from the pocket and make plays with his legs at the same time.

if dan reeves was never fired and vick didnt fight dogs ....we could be mentioning vicks name with the names of tom brady and peyton manning

InterpolWilco

i said we COULD.be i didnt say we WOULD be mentioning his name with those others.....i'd like to see what brady would be with out bellichek. Vick under reeves was a QB as shown in this video....mora tried to turn him into a passing running back. and refused to bring in talent around him.

Manning? who has played with the likes of marshall faulk...marvin harrison...reggie wayne...clark? vick was never given the chance that manning had.

vick also only started 4 years...and only had a losing record 1 of those 4 years at 7-9 you like to bring up vicks flaws...but none of his success....a pure hater.

His completion percentage never broke the fifties. I mean that's decent, but you look at a guy like Brady and he's consistently putting up 60%+ completion numbers every season. If I had to be fair, I'd put Vick somewhere in between someone like Roethlisberger and someone like Orton. He's not an elite QB, but he is good enough to be a starter and one of the better starters at that.

As for Favre, it's not only that he throws interceptions but that he throws them at key moments. Add that to his health. Yeah, I know he might be cleared, but how much longer can he stay completely healthy? We know as soon as he starts feeling the pain his numbers decline, and if that's going to be during the second half of the season, which no one can reasonaby predict, that could be a major problem for the Vikings. They have their toughest part of teh schedule down the stretch and they want to be able to take advantage of the Williams Wall coming back, not having their D trying to play catch up. I'll accept the argument that Vick might not be game-ready, but if it were me personally I'd still rather have Vick because at least I could bench him and use him in Wildcat situations in a limited role while having T-Jack or Sage start, then have Vick ready to start next season. That's a better scenario for me than taking a huge risk on Favre.

theone86

finally a true football fan...that doesnt hate on vick because he killed a few dogs....and doesnt play the QB position how everyone WANTS him to play it.....you are very knowledgable and it seems like you watched vick play, instead of listening to skip bayless rant about him in the mornings and draw your opinion of him from that. kudos

[QUOTE="theone86"]

His completion percentage never broke the fifties. I mean that's decent, but you look at a guy like Brady and he's consistently putting up 60%+ completion numbers every season. If I had to be fair, I'd put Vick somewhere in between someone like Roethlisberger and someone like Orton. He's not an elite QB, but he is good enough to be a starter and one of the better starters at that.

As for Favre, it's not only that he throws interceptions but that he throws them at key moments. Add that to his health. Yeah, I know he might be cleared, but how much longer can he stay completely healthy? We know as soon as he starts feeling the pain his numbers decline, and if that's going to be during the second half of the season, which no one can reasonaby predict, that could be a major problem for the Vikings. They have their toughest part of teh schedule down the stretch and they want to be able to take advantage of the Williams Wall coming back, not having their D trying to play catch up. I'll accept the argument that Vick might not be game-ready, but if it were me personally I'd still rather have Vick because at least I could bench him and use him in Wildcat situations in a limited role while having T-Jack or Sage start, then have Vick ready to start next season. That's a better scenario for me than taking a huge risk on Favre.

bytgames

finally a true football fan...that doesnt hate on vick because he killed a few dogs....and doesnt play the QB position how everyone WANTS him to play it.....you are very knowledgable and it seems like you watched vick play, instead of listening to skip bayless rant about him in the mornings and draw your opinion of him from that. kudos

[QUOTE="bytgames"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

His completion percentage never broke the fifties. I mean that's decent, but you look at a guy like Brady and he's consistently putting up 60%+ completion numbers every season. If I had to be fair, I'd put Vick somewhere in between someone like Roethlisberger and someone like Orton. He's not an elite QB, but he is good enough to be a starter and one of the better starters at that.

As for Favre, it's not only that he throws interceptions but that he throws them at key moments. Add that to his health. Yeah, I know he might be cleared, but how much longer can he stay completely healthy? We know as soon as he starts feeling the pain his numbers decline, and if that's going to be during the second half of the season, which no one can reasonaby predict, that could be a major problem for the Vikings. They have their toughest part of teh schedule down the stretch and they want to be able to take advantage of the Williams Wall coming back, not having their D trying to play catch up. I'll accept the argument that Vick might not be game-ready, but if it were me personally I'd still rather have Vick because at least I could bench him and use him in Wildcat situations in a limited role while having T-Jack or Sage start, then have Vick ready to start next season. That's a better scenario for me than taking a huge risk on Favre.

InterpolWilco

finally a true football fan...that doesnt hate on vick because he killed a few dogs....and doesnt play the QB position how everyone WANTS him to play it.....you are very knowledgable and it seems like you watched vick play, instead of listening to skip bayless rant about him in the mornings and draw your opinion of him from that. kudos

no you can not like vicks style and still be a true football fan.....its when you make the statement that you watched the Giants manhandle him...and think he sucks because of that...that is where i have an issue with your football knowledge....here is why.

the falcons ran a zone blocking scheme under mora...wich meant undersized lineman....undersized lineman=not good pass blockers. the falcons had the WORST line in the NFL that season...worse then the texans. ok

this is the same Giants line that the following year...made Golden boy Tom brady look below average...and he had randy moss to throw too...vick was a one man show.....If you say Tom Brady is the MAN...then watch the giants line destroy him....how is he still the man.....when vick gets manhandled by the same D line....with a lesser O line in front of him....how can you think vick sucks just because of that?

even then the true football fan statement was not directed towards you...it was directed towards the ppl on this forum that constantly say vick is garbage and he wasnt even starting matiereal in the NFL....that is the ppl who dont have a clue who they are talking about.

and last im very much against what vick did......but when i look at the NFL and see guys like Plaxico commit crimes and get away with it....stalworth killing a pedestrian and getting away with it....leonard little kill someone drink driving and get away with it.....then i look at michael vick....who lost 100 million dollars and served 2 yeaars in prison...uh yeah what he did was wrong...but he served his time.

He killed dogs for fun.

I don't care if he was Joe Montana in his prime - I don't want him anywhere near my team.

Seriously - I would root against my own team if they signed Vick. In fact, I would not buy a ticket or spend one cent on my team's merchandise if he was on it.

I have to say I'm pretty apalled at what he did. Like others have said, he not only fought dogs, which is pretty barbaric in and of itself, but he tortured them in order to make them better fighters. Go on YT and find some dog fighting footage then come back and tell me that isn't sick.

That being said, this is a case of me having to stand up for what I believe in even when it threatens some of my other beliefs. I've said before how African-American culture in poorer areas is drastically different from what we consider normal, and that in some places people are brought up seeing dogfighting as normalized. This doesn't make it right, but the fact is that we push these people to be successful and make a better life for themselves, but as soon as they are able to change their social location we expect them to instantly conform to our standards which, again, are drastically different. I said the same thing with Tank Johnson, Cedric Benson, and Ricky Williams and I'll say it for Vick too. It doesn't make it right, but it does show one of the ways that social stratification affects our culture.

The other thing is that our penal system is set up for rehabilitation. Someone commits a crime, they get caught, they serve their time, and if everything goes right they won't commit the same crime again. I've always been a believer in that philosophy and that regardless of how personally dispicable you find the crime you must be willing to give people second chances. Jail's not an easy thing, and Vick spent two years of his life there. He's paid his debt to society, and now we have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

but NFL scouts and GM'S that watch videos like this of vick see huge potential with good coaching.bytgames

You don't use the word "potential" when describing a player who broke into the league 8 years ago. The window of opportunity for fulfilling that potential has already closed.

I have to say I'm pretty apalled at what he did. Like others have said, he not only fought dogs, which is pretty barbaric in and of itself, but he tortured them in order to make them better fighters. Go on YT and find some dog fighting footage then come back and tell me that isn't sick.

That being said, this is a case of me having to stand up for what I believe in even when it threatens some of my other beliefs. I've said before how African-American culture in poorer areas is drastically different from what we consider normal, and that in some places people are brought up seeing dogfighting as normalized. This doesn't make it right, but the fact is that we push these people to be successful and make a better life for themselves, but as soon as they are able to change their social location we expect them to instantly conform to our standards which, again, are drastically different. I said the same thing with Tank Johnson, Cedric Benson, and Ricky Williams and I'll say it for Vick too. It doesn't make it right, but it does show one of the ways that social stratification affects our culture.

The other thing is that our penal system is set up for rehabilitation. Someone commits a crime, they get caught, they serve their time, and if everything goes right they won't commit the same crime again. I've always been a believer in that philosophy and that regardless of how personally dispicable you find the crime you must be willing to give people second chances. Jail's not an easy thing, and Vick spent two years of his life there. He's paid his debt to society, and now we have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

theone86

Vick chose to fight and breed dogs to kill each other for presonal entertainment.

That alone makes him inhuman and beyond rehabilitation.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

I have to say I'm pretty apalled at what he did. Like others have said, he not only fought dogs, which is pretty barbaric in and of itself, but he tortured them in order to make them better fighters. Go on YT and find some dog fighting footage then come back and tell me that isn't sick.

That being said, this is a case of me having to stand up for what I believe in even when it threatens some of my other beliefs. I've said before how African-American culture in poorer areas is drastically different from what we consider normal, and that in some places people are brought up seeing dogfighting as normalized. This doesn't make it right, but the fact is that we push these people to be successful and make a better life for themselves, but as soon as they are able to change their social location we expect them to instantly conform to our standards which, again, are drastically different. I said the same thing with Tank Johnson, Cedric Benson, and Ricky Williams and I'll say it for Vick too. It doesn't make it right, but it does show one of the ways that social stratification affects our culture.

The other thing is that our penal system is set up for rehabilitation. Someone commits a crime, they get caught, they serve their time, and if everything goes right they won't commit the same crime again. I've always been a believer in that philosophy and that regardless of how personally dispicable you find the crime you must be willing to give people second chances. Jail's not an easy thing, and Vick spent two years of his life there. He's paid his debt to society, and now we have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Netherscourge

Vick chose to fight and breed dogs to kill each other for presonal entertainment.

That alone makes him inhuman and beyond rehabilitation.

but its ok to shoot dear with high powered riffles in cold blood for entertainment? its ok for leanard little to kill a woman while he was drunk driving and not even get suspended by the NFL? And keep playing? its ok for plaxico to conceal a Illegal firearm wich carries a lot heavier sentence then what michael vick got , but get off scott free? please respond when you can answer to these double standards.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

I have to say I'm pretty apalled at what he did. Like others have said, he not only fought dogs, which is pretty barbaric in and of itself, but he tortured them in order to make them better fighters. Go on YT and find some dog fighting footage then come back and tell me that isn't sick.

That being said, this is a case of me having to stand up for what I believe in even when it threatens some of my other beliefs. I've said before how African-American culture in poorer areas is drastically different from what we consider normal, and that in some places people are brought up seeing dogfighting as normalized. This doesn't make it right, but the fact is that we push these people to be successful and make a better life for themselves, but as soon as they are able to change their social location we expect them to instantly conform to our standards which, again, are drastically different. I said the same thing with Tank Johnson, Cedric Benson, and Ricky Williams and I'll say it for Vick too. It doesn't make it right, but it does show one of the ways that social stratification affects our culture.

The other thing is that our penal system is set up for rehabilitation. Someone commits a crime, they get caught, they serve their time, and if everything goes right they won't commit the same crime again. I've always been a believer in that philosophy and that regardless of how personally dispicable you find the crime you must be willing to give people second chances. Jail's not an easy thing, and Vick spent two years of his life there. He's paid his debt to society, and now we have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Netherscourge

Vick chose to fight and breed dogs to kill each other for presonal entertainment.

That alone makes him inhuman and beyond rehabilitation.

Wow, your argument is so persuasive, you've completely changed my perspective on the matter.

Fact is that Vick comes from a different sub-society with different norms and mores than the mainstream. Where he was brought up, dogfighting is commonplace and acceptable. That doesn't make it right, but it explains why he can do things like that. People aren't just inhuman, they do things for reasons. And no one is beyond rehabilitation. People have been rehabbed from more heinous crimes than dogfighting, and simply because you feel personally affected does not mean the crime is suddenly more reprehensible for it nor that the criminal is somehow beyond rehabilitation. That's simply very narrow thinking and not at all reflective of any of the laws we have set up. He did his time, he paid the price, what more can we ask of him other than he not repeat his mistake?