[QUOTE="Bobbles"][QUOTE="monkeytoes61"] Dan Fouts could have won multiple championships if the defense had not been so bad. Just look at the last seven years of Fouts' career, and how the SD defense ranked during those years: 27, 25, 26, 28, 26, 23, 15. Compare that to how the offense ranked during those same years: 1, 1, 1, 4, 1, 12, 21.That's great, I still wouldn't ever consider him a top 10 QB. Never said he wasn't good. Then you've obviously never watched Dan Fouts actually play :roll: Because I don't consider him one of the best 10 QBs to play the game? Get real. You act like I said he was awful.frostybanana
Your top ten QBs of all time
This topic is locked from further discussion.
Then you've obviously never watched Dan Fouts actually play :roll:[QUOTE="frostybanana"][QUOTE="Bobbles"] That's great, I still wouldn't ever consider him a top 10 QB. Never said he wasn't good.Darth_Revan_666
Im pretty sure all of us never actually saw him play.
It's true. It makes it tough to judge players in NFL history. All we have are stats, and the occasional NFL films clip to judge them by.
Then you've obviously never watched Dan Fouts actually play :roll: Because I don't consider him one of the best 10 QBs to play the game? Get real. You act like I said he was awful. No, because you said if he won multiple championships he still wouldn't be in your top 10. In fact, the very notion seemed silly to you. The only knock against Fouts is that he doesn't have championship. If you watched the guy play, you wouldn't think it's so silly.[QUOTE="frostybanana"][QUOTE="Bobbles"] That's great, I still wouldn't ever consider him a top 10 QB. Never said he wasn't good.Bobbles
[QUOTE="Darth_Revan_666"][QUOTE="frostybanana"] Then you've obviously never watched Dan Fouts actually play :roll:monkeytoes61
Im pretty sure all of us never actually saw him play.
It's true. It makes it tough to judge players in NFL history. All we have are stats, and the occasional NFL films clip to judge them by. I've watched a good portion of Fouts games. Not a lot, but enough to understand the amount of talent he has. It's hard to see QBs before the 70s and 80s play, but there's tape on that too.[QUOTE="Bobbles"]Because I don't consider him one of the best 10 QBs to play the game? Get real. You act like I said he was awful. No, because you said if he won multiple championships he still wouldn't be in your top 10. . Lmao. When did I EVER say this? Please show me.[QUOTE="frostybanana"] Then you've obviously never watched Dan Fouts actually play :roll:frostybanana
Dan Fouts could have won multiple championships if the defense had not been so bad. Just look at the last seven years of Fouts' career, and how the SD defense ranked during those years: 27, 25, 26, 28, 26, 23, 15. Compare that to how the offense ranked during those same years: 1, 1, 1, 4, 1, 12, 21. That's great, I still wouldn't ever consider him a top 10 QB. Never said he wasn't good. Implied in your response.[QUOTE="Bobbles"][QUOTE="monkeytoes61"]
[QUOTE="Bobbles"]Lol, Dan Fouts as a top 10 qb... please. Bobbles
That's great, I still wouldn't ever consider him a top 10 QB. Never said he wasn't good. Implied in your response. No, you assumed. Bottom line is no QB should be in the top 10 if they've never even got their team to a championship game. People can say all this "well if he had a defense he'd have won multiple SBs!", but that's all hypothetical and you can't prove it. Enough of the hypothetical crap, let's talk about what he actually did. The Chargers ranked 2nd in the league in points given up in 1979 when they also had a #2 offense in the league. Dan Fouts played lights out against the Oilers in their home playoff game, throwing for 5 picks. His playoff numbers are far from impressive: more picks than TDs. Yes, I want him in my top 10.[QUOTE="Bobbles"]
[QUOTE="Bobbles"] Dan Fouts could have won multiple championships if the defense had not been so bad. Just look at the last seven years of Fouts' career, and how the SD defense ranked during those years: 27, 25, 26, 28, 26, 23, 15. Compare that to how the offense ranked during those same years: 1, 1, 1, 4, 1, 12, 21.
frostybanana
[QUOTE="frostybanana"]Implied in your response. No, you assumed. Bottom line is no QB should be in the top 10 if they've never even got their team to a championship game. People can say all this "well if he had a defense he'd have won multiple SBs!", but that's all hypothetical and you can't prove it. Enough of the hypothetical crap, let's talk about what he actually did. The Chargers ranked 2nd in the league in points given up in 1979 when they also had a #2 offense in the league. Dan Fouts played lights out against the Oilers in their home playoff game, throwing for 5 picks. His playoff numbers are far from impressive: more picks than TDs. Yes, I want him in my top 10. No, it was implied by you. There is no way to interpret a response without context and the context was what you quoted. If that's NOT the implication, then it's on you to indicate that. Like I said before, loads of people didn't win championships even thought they had the talent as a result of the team around them. No one, and I mean no one, can win a championship without a good team around them. If you said something like his postseason stats aren't great or he doesn't win enough or whatever it is, that's fine. But you didn't say that. You said "haha, Dan Fouts in the top 10, haha." MOST quarterbacks back then didn't have great numbers. Especially QBs who ran an offense like the Chargers did. That's why i said it's evident that you didn't watch him play. Talent-wise, Fouts is phenomenal. That's why he made the Hall 6 years after he retired.[QUOTE="Bobbles"] That's great, I still wouldn't ever consider him a top 10 QB. Never said he wasn't good.Bobbles
drew brees couldnt even sniff the top 10 qbof all time, he hasnt been good his whole cdareer he only has a handful of good seasons, one mvp calibur season thats it i can name 20 qb's better then brees he had 23 interceptions no qb in the top 10 should break 20 interceptions in a single season1. Dan Marino
2. Joe Montana
3. Peyton Manning
4. Johnny Unitas
5. Sonny Jurgensen
6. Kurt Warner
7. Steve Young
8. Fran Tarkenton
9. Roger Staubach
10. Tom Brady
I'd would've had Drew Brees in there too because, IMO, he's the most accurate quarterback in NFL history, but I feel like he needs a few more years to pad his numbers a bit more.
frostybanana
drew brees couldnt even sniff the top 10 qbof all time, he hasnt been good his whole cdareer he only has a handful of good seasons, one mvp calibur season thats it i can name 20 qb's better then brees he had 23 interceptions no qb in the top 10 should break 20 interceptions in a single season[QUOTE="frostybanana"]
1. Dan Marino
2. Joe Montana
3. Peyton Manning
4. Johnny Unitas
5. Sonny Jurgensen
6. Kurt Warner
7. Steve Young
8. Fran Tarkenton
9. Roger Staubach
10. Tom Brady
I'd would've had Drew Brees in there too because, IMO, he's the most accurate quarterback in NFL history, but I feel like he needs a few more years to pad his numbers a bit more.
mattryan2roddy
What are you talking about? Drew Brees has had the most prolific 5 year span of any quarterback in NFL History, even more prolific than that of Peyton Manning. He broke the completion % record throwing the ball over 500 times. The only QB that's even gotten close to that is Manning and he wasn't THAT close. He is only the second QB to pass for over 5000 yards and has the third high completion % in NFL history behind only Kurt Warner and Chad Pennington. He shattered the completion record which was 410 by throwing 440 completions in 2007. And he did it again last year by throwing 448. Manning broke his record last year by throwing 450 but who's the next highest?
Brees has had TWO bad years in his entire career. And eight years that any other quarterback would kill to have. Add that in with his ring and he can't even sniff the top 10? What are you smoking?
No QB should throw 20+ ints in the top 10? Peyton Manning threw 28 picks bro. Johnny Unitas threw 20+ picks FIVE times. Marino, Favre, Elway, Tarkenton have all done it too. Oh wait, I get it. The Falcons fan is biased, what a shock :roll:
- Troy Aikman
- Terry Bradshaw
- Randall Cunningham
- Len Dawson
- John Elway
- Brett Favre
- Otto Graham
- Arnie Herber
- Cecil Isbell
- Sonny Jurgensen
- Jim Kelly
- Bobby Layne
- Joe Montana
- Troy Aikman
- Terry Bradshaw
- Randall Cunningham
- Len Dawson
- John Elway
- Brett Favre
- Otto Graham
- Arnie Herber
- Cecil Isbell
- Sonny Jurgensen
- Jim Kelly
- Bobby Layne
- Joe Montana
Oleg_Huzwog
Obvious troll is obvious.
[QUOTE="Bobbles"][QUOTE="frostybanana"] Implied in your response.No, you assumed. Bottom line is no QB should be in the top 10 if they've never even got their team to a championship game. People can say all this "well if he had a defense he'd have won multiple SBs!", but that's all hypothetical and you can't prove it. Enough of the hypothetical crap, let's talk about what he actually did. The Chargers ranked 2nd in the league in points given up in 1979 when they also had a #2 offense in the league. Dan Fouts played lights out against the Oilers in their home playoff game, throwing for 5 picks. His playoff numbers are far from impressive: more picks than TDs. Yes, I want him in my top 10. No, it was implied by you. There is no way to interpret a response without context and the context was what you quoted. If that's NOT the implication, then it's on you to indicate that. Like I said before, loads of people didn't win championships even thought they had the talent as a result of the team around them. No one, and I mean no one, can win a championship without a good team around them. If you said something like his postseason stats aren't great or he doesn't win enough or whatever it is, that's fine. But you didn't say that. You said "haha, Dan Fouts in the top 10, haha." MOST quarterbacks back then didn't have great numbers. Especially QBs who ran an offense like the Chargers did. That's why i said it's evident that you didn't watch him play. Talent-wise, Fouts is phenomenal. That's why he made the Hall 6 years after he retired. I don't have to indicate crap, you still assumed. Yeah I laughed at Dan Fouts in the top 10 QBs to ever play in the NFL, that doesn't mean he's a bad QB at all. I'd probably laugh if someone said Jim Kelly too and he's been to four SBs. I've never once said Dan Fouts wasn't talented nor did I ever say he was a bad QB. The fact is, in 1979 he had the defense and the offense and didn't get it done. I'm not talkin about winning championships necessarily, but actually getting your team there. John Elway did this three times in the 80's without having two HoFers to throw to.frostybanana
No, it was implied by you. There is no way to interpret a response without context and the context was what you quoted. If that's NOT the implication, then it's on you to indicate that. Like I said before, loads of people didn't win championships even thought they had the talent as a result of the team around them. No one, and I mean no one, can win a championship without a good team around them. If you said something like his postseason stats aren't great or he doesn't win enough or whatever it is, that's fine. But you didn't say that. You said "haha, Dan Fouts in the top 10, haha." MOST quarterbacks back then didn't have great numbers. Especially QBs who ran an offense like the Chargers did. That's why i said it's evident that you didn't watch him play. Talent-wise, Fouts is phenomenal. That's why he made the Hall 6 years after he retired. I don't have to indicate crap, you still assumed. Yeah I laughed at Dan Fouts in the top 10 QBs to ever play in the NFL, that doesn't mean he's a bad QB at all. I'd probably laugh if someone said Jim Kelly too and he's been to four SBs. I've never once said Dan Fouts wasn't talented nor did I ever say he was a bad QB. The fact is, in 1979 he had the defense and the offense and didn't get it done. I'm not talkin about winning championships necessarily, but actually getting your team there. John Elway did this three times in the 80's without having two HoFers to throw to. You don't have to indicate crap, but don't complain if someone interprets your post the way you wrote it. That's like building restrooms and failing to indicate which ones the men's room and which is the women's room. Then you can go "I don't have to indicate crap!" when people get confused lawl :roll:. And no, if you actually watched him play you'd know his defense was actually crap. They had the third fewest scrimmage plays run against them in the NFL because the offense kept the defense off the field. John Elway also threw as many interceptions as touchdowns before '93 season and had cumulative Super Bowl stats of 46/101 45%, 669 yards, 3 TDs and 6 INTs. Jonn Elway also got his clocked clean in those Super Bowls without a solid supporting cast losing the Super Bowls by a combined score of 136 to 40. Is that all his fault? Of course not. But if you're going to sit there and give all the credit to one player for getting to the Super Bowl, then you damn well better give him the blame when he loses them too. Either way, that line of thinking is ridiculous.[QUOTE="frostybanana"][QUOTE="Bobbles"] No, you assumed. Bottom line is no QB should be in the top 10 if they've never even got their team to a championship game. People can say all this "well if he had a defense he'd have won multiple SBs!", but that's all hypothetical and you can't prove it. Enough of the hypothetical crap, let's talk about what he actually did. The Chargers ranked 2nd in the league in points given up in 1979 when they also had a #2 offense in the league. Dan Fouts played lights out against the Oilers in their home playoff game, throwing for 5 picks. His playoff numbers are far from impressive: more picks than TDs. Yes, I want him in my top 10. Bobbles
[QUOTE="Bobbles"]I don't have to indicate crap, you still assumed. Yeah I laughed at Dan Fouts in the top 10 QBs to ever play in the NFL, that doesn't mean he's a bad QB at all. I'd probably laugh if someone said Jim Kelly too and he's been to four SBs. I've never once said Dan Fouts wasn't talented nor did I ever say he was a bad QB. The fact is, in 1979 he had the defense and the offense and didn't get it done. I'm not talkin about winning championships necessarily, but actually getting your team there. John Elway did this three times in the 80's without having two HoFers to throw to. You don't have to indicate crap, but don't complain if someone interprets your post the way you wrote it. That's like building restrooms and failing to indicate which ones the men's room and which is the women's room. Then you can go "I don't have to indicate crap!" when people get confused lawl :roll:. And no, if you actually watched him play you'd know his defense was actually crap. They had the third fewest scrimmage plays run against them in the NFL because the offense kept the defense off the field. John Elway also threw as many interceptions as touchdowns before '93 season and had cumulative Super Bowl stats of 46/101 45%, 669 yards, 3 TDs and 6 INTs. Jonn Elway also got his clocked clean in those Super Bowls without a solid supporting cast losing the Super Bowls by a combined score of 136 to 40. Is that all his fault? Of course not. But if you're going to sit there and give all the credit to one player for getting to the Super Bowl, then you damn well better give him the blame when he loses them too. Either way, that line of thinking is ridiculous. I forget, who was on Elway's team during the 80's? Yeah...thanks. He didn't have two hall of famers to throw to like Fouts did and there was hardly any one else worth naming on his defense either. Just saying, his teams rode his back to three SB appearances and yeah he blew bad in those appearances.[QUOTE="frostybanana"] No, it was implied by you. There is no way to interpret a response without context and the context was what you quoted. If that's NOT the implication, then it's on you to indicate that. Like I said before, loads of people didn't win championships even thought they had the talent as a result of the team around them. No one, and I mean no one, can win a championship without a good team around them. If you said something like his postseason stats aren't great or he doesn't win enough or whatever it is, that's fine. But you didn't say that. You said "haha, Dan Fouts in the top 10, haha." MOST quarterbacks back then didn't have great numbers. Especially QBs who ran an offense like the Chargers did. That's why i said it's evident that you didn't watch him play. Talent-wise, Fouts is phenomenal. That's why he made the Hall 6 years after he retired. frostybanana
[QUOTE="frostybanana"][QUOTE="Bobbles"] I don't have to indicate crap, you still assumed. Yeah I laughed at Dan Fouts in the top 10 QBs to ever play in the NFL, that doesn't mean he's a bad QB at all. I'd probably laugh if someone said Jim Kelly too and he's been to four SBs. I've never once said Dan Fouts wasn't talented nor did I ever say he was a bad QB. The fact is, in 1979 he had the defense and the offense and didn't get it done. I'm not talkin about winning championships necessarily, but actually getting your team there. John Elway did this three times in the 80's without having two HoFers to throw to.You don't have to indicate crap, but don't complain if someone interprets your post the way you wrote it. That's like building restrooms and failing to indicate which ones the men's room and which is the women's room. Then you can go "I don't have to indicate crap!" when people get confused lawl :roll:. And no, if you actually watched him play you'd know his defense was actually crap. They had the third fewest scrimmage plays run against them in the NFL because the offense kept the defense off the field. John Elway also threw as many interceptions as touchdowns before '93 season and had cumulative Super Bowl stats of 46/101 45%, 669 yards, 3 TDs and 6 INTs. Jonn Elway also got his clocked clean in those Super Bowls without a solid supporting cast losing the Super Bowls by a combined score of 136 to 40. Is that all his fault? Of course not. But if you're going to sit there and give all the credit to one player for getting to the Super Bowl, then you damn well better give him the blame when he loses them too. Either way, that line of thinking is ridiculous. I forget, who was on Elway's team during the 80's? Yeah...thanks. He didn't have two hall of famers to throw to like Fouts did and there was hardly any one else worth naming on his defense either. Just saying, his teams rode his back to three SB appearances and yeah he blew bad in those appearances.Bobbles
What does that have to do with anything? That's the point, he couldn't win the Super Bowl without support in the form of a hall of fame tight end, an all pro wide receiver and a 2000 yard rusher. Not to mention a formidable defense. If you think Fouts' Chargers team was even even half as good as Elway's Super Bowl teams, you're out of your mind.
Does anyone else bring up Elway's 3 Super Bowl appearances where he lost when they're talking about how good he is? No. Just like no one is going to talk about Tom Brady's Super Bowl appearance where he lost when they're talking about how good he is. You can't pick and choose. Either they win it all or they lose. There's no prize for second place and no one talks about losing in the Super Bowl like it's an accomplishment. If you think Elway is a top 10 QB because he wins, then you bring up his Super Bowl years, not the years he LOST at the Super Bowl (blown out every time might I add). And what did Elway have his Super Bowl years? A great all around team. You don't have the team, you're not going to win. Simple as that.
You're missing MY point completely. I said I would never include a QB in a top 10 list who's never even led his team to a single championship appearance, not necessarily a win. I've said this two or three times now. And this is why I brought up Elway during the 80's, he led a weak team to three SBs. Fouts NEVER did this even during 1979 when he had a defense that ranked top 10 in every category...including forcing turnovers. Fouts didn't show up for the HOME playoff game against the Oilers, but his defense did. Just saying. Elway's defenses never showed up for the 80's SBs and yes, he didn't either against the 'Skins or Niners. Dan Marino is a top 10 QB IMO and he's never won a SB, but he led his team there.
Like I said, flawed logic. You're basing your ratings off of winning (i.e. winning to get to the Super Bowl) but then you're completely ignoring the loss in the Super Bowl. That's what winning is about. Who the hell cares if you got close? Almost doesn't mean anything. And then you blame the defense for the loss. More flawed logic. You gave all the credit of winning to one player and when they lose you blame it on the team. I haven't missed your point, your point makes no sense.You're missing MY point completely. I said I would never include a QB in a top 10 list who's never even led his team to a single championship appearance, not necessarily a win. I've said this two or three times now. And this is why I brought up Elway during the 80's, he led a weak team to three SBs. Fouts NEVER did this even during 1979 when he had a defense that ranked top 10 in every category...including forcing turnovers. Fouts didn't show up for the HOME playoff game against the Oilers, but his defense did. Just saying. Elway's defenses never showed up for the 80's SBs and yes, he didn't either against the 'Skins or Niners. Dan Marino is a top 10 QB IMO and he's never won a SB, but he led his team there.
Bobbles
drew brees couldnt even sniff the top 10 qbof all time, he hasnt been good his whole cdareer he only has a handful of good seasons, one mvp calibur season thats it i can name 20 qb's better then brees he had 23 interceptions no qb in the top 10 should break 20 interceptions in a single season[QUOTE="frostybanana"]
1. Dan Marino
2. Joe Montana
3. Peyton Manning
4. Johnny Unitas
5. Sonny Jurgensen
6. Kurt Warner
7. Steve Young
8. Fran Tarkenton
9. Roger Staubach
10. Tom Brady
I'd would've had Drew Brees in there too because, IMO, he's the most accurate quarterback in NFL history, but I feel like he needs a few more years to pad his numbers a bit more.
mattryan2roddy
What??? I'm sorry but that theory completely throws out how much of the offense relies on the pass, how much the team plays from behind with a bad defense, how much growth they had early in their career (i.e. thrown to the wolves as a rookie). That qualifier just seems awfully arbitrary especially disqualifing a QB for throwing more than 20 int's. in a single season. All of these lists excluding Favre I find funny. Like the guy or hate him he won THREE league MVP's, 2 NFC titles, a Super Bowl, not to mention the records.
Labor and draft talk are boring, let's get into some real football talk!
1. Joe Montana
2. Tom Brady
3. Peyton Manning
4. John Elway
5. Johhny Unitas
6. Brett Favre
7. Dan Marino
8.Otto Graham
9. Bart Starr
10. Dan Fouts
I agree with your top 5. The rest could be switched around with debate but they are not unjustified.[QUOTE="frostybanana"] Like I said, flawed logic. You're basing your ratings off of winning (i.e. winning to get to the Super Bowl) but then you're completely ignoring the loss in the Super Bowl. That's what winning is about. Who the hell cares if you got close? Almost doesn't mean anything. And then you blame the defense for the loss. More flawed logic. You gave all the credit of winning to one player and when they lose you blame it on the team. I haven't missed your point, your point makes no sense. BobblesNo friend, more assuming on your part. I don't base ratings just off winning, but yes it is a factor. By the way, I blamed both Elway and the defense for losses in the SBs because neither showed up. Someone brought up the idea that if Fouts had a defense then he'd have won championships. Well, the best example is 1979 where the SD defense ranked top 10 in every category and the Chargers lost at home and Fouts deserves A LOT of the blame with 5 picks.
And Elway deserves a lot of blame for their Super Bowl losses, just look at his numbers (which I already referred to.) By the way, I already stated this, but their 1979 defense was not good in the least bit. They had the same personnel on that defense for the next few years and it played poorly. They played good because Fouts and the offense took the pressure off them. Hence the fact that they had the third fewest scrimmage plays run against them. Another case of you not actually watching the games that year.
Your logic made no sense and it still doesn't. I've given you every opportunity to say what you really meant if I was misinterpreting it but all you're saying is "that's not what I meant" or "you're just assuming that." OK? That literally means nothing to me. You're not saying why you think Elway is a top 10 QB and Fouts isn't, you're just asserting it over and over again. So I'll just assume it's because he GOT to the Super Bowl 3 times without the Super Bowl champ personnel he had afterwards. And again, it's flawed logic. You've done nothing to counter that, you're just insisting that Fouts had a good defense "roll" in 1979 again and I already responded to it. So unless you have something constructive to say, it doesn't really matter to me what you think.
I don't like to name guys I never saw play so my list will consist of players from the 80's, 90's, and 00's.
Joe Montana
John Elway
Brett Farve
Troy Aikman
Peyton Manning
Dan Marino
Tom Brady
Jim Kelly
Steve Young
Warren Moon
These are the best that I've ever seen play. I am sure there are some legends of the past that would surplant some that are on my list but I am not really comfortable choosing somebody I haven't seen play a game.
Sorry, but what does the offense have to do with the defense being top 10 in forcing turnovers? Thanks. That awful defense sure showed up against Houston, keeping them in the game the entire time. My bad dude, just looked at your top 10 which didn't even have John Elway. Joke.BobblesYes, I don't have John Elway because my primary criteria is throwing ability. I already explained this. You can argue about how Elway has better throwing ability than those quarterbacks I listed. Oh wait a minute, you haven't been watching them throw at all. Guess that shows how credible you are. Laughing at Dan Fouts in a top 10 list? That's the joke right there bud.
If you don't understand the impact an offense has on the defense then you don't really know anything about football. Take the Saints defense the last two years for example. They are porous, they have a weak line and they have a weak linebacking corps, but this year they ranked among the best in total defense and last year they ranked 2nd in turnovers forced. It really doesn't mean anything because any Saints fan who actually watched their games knows that their defense is actually highly suspect. That's why the Seahawks completely destroyed them.
What does the offense have to do with the defense? Well, if you keep the ball away from the defense it keeps your guys fresh and more capable of getting turnovers. That's why, with virtually the same personnel, the Chargers defense was awful in the years before and after the '79 season. The problem here is you look at numbers to make your conclusions on a team. But numbers are deceptive and there's more to the game than that.
Not enough Brett Favre. It's a shame people will only remember him for the retirement saga. Leader in most major passing catagories, SB win, three MVPs. I can't see any way that he isn't a top ten QB.monkeytoes61
I remember him mostly for his clutch interceptions.
Not enough Brett Favre. It's a shame people will only remember him for the retirement saga. Leader in most major passing catagories, SB win, three MVPs. I can't see any way that he isn't a top ten QB.monkeytoes61I put Brett Favre on my list. Then again, I didn't go the historian route and name guys who were retired before I was born in an attempt to sound knowledgable. I think these topics are better when people stick with guys they've watched play for years. Anybody can look up stats and read a little history, but I think to fully judge a guy you need to see him play a game.
Lol @ anyone questioning John Elway's throwing ability. Sorry I didn't state the obvious. BobblesWho's questioning his throwing ability? I simply stated that the people on my list can throw better than him. I watched Elway play and I've watched the people on my list play. So I came to a reasonable conclusion on who can throw the better based on watching them. I don't just sit around looking at numbers and pretend that I know what I'm talking about :roll:
He's been good his whole career. He was good in San Diego, but he really broke out in New Orleans. But wait you're just spewing venom because he plays for a division rival and has led his team to do something that the Atlanta Falcons will never do. How 'bout them Packers? Nah, just playing around bud. But really they killed the Falcons.... Matty Ice!!!drew brees couldnt even sniff the top 10 qbof all time, he hasnt been good his whole cdareer he only has a handful of good seasons, one mvp calibur season thats it i can name 20 qb's better then brees he had 23 interceptions no qb in the top 10 should break 20 interceptions in a single season
mattryan2roddy
I watched Elway play and I've watched the people on my list play. So I came to a reasonable conclusion on who can throw the better based on watching them. I don't just sit around looking at numbers and pretend that I know what I'm talking about :roll:frostybananaNot to be a prick here but you really watched Sonny Jurgenson, Johnny Unitas, Fran Tarkenton, and Roger Staubach play? You must be the oldest member on this site.
[QUOTE="frostybanana"] I watched Elway play and I've watched the people on my list play. So I came to a reasonable conclusion on who can throw the better based on watching them. I don't just sit around looking at numbers and pretend that I know what I'm talking about :roll:Second_RookNot to be a prick here but you really watched Sonny Jurgenson, Johnny Unitas, Fran Tarkenton, and Roger Staubach play? You must be the oldest member on this site. I didn't watch them WHILE they were still playing. But I've managed to watch a considerable amount of their games, mostly from tapes and games my dad taped back in the day. I haven't seen Jurgensen or Staubach play in full games, I don't have any videos on them. I've only seen highlights and shows dedicated to them. I have plenty of video on Elway and Fouts though. I live in Baltimore so there are some places with Unitas' championship games here as well. I haven't seen a load of Tarkenton, but I do have some game tapes from his second stint with Minnesota.
[QUOTE="Second_Rook"][QUOTE="frostybanana"] I watched Elway play and I've watched the people on my list play. So I came to a reasonable conclusion on who can throw the better based on watching them. I don't just sit around looking at numbers and pretend that I know what I'm talking about :roll:frostybananaNot to be a prick here but you really watched Sonny Jurgenson, Johnny Unitas, Fran Tarkenton, and Roger Staubach play? You must be the oldest member on this site. I didn't watch them WHILE they were still playing. But I've managed to watch a considerable amount of their games, mostly from tapes and games my dad taped back in the day. I haven't seen Jurgensen or Staubach play in full games, I don't have any videos on them. I've only seen highlights and shows dedicated to them. I have plenty of video on Elway and Fouts though. I live in Baltimore so there are some places with Unitas' championship games here as well. I haven't seen a load of Tarkenton, but I do have some game tapes from his second stint with Minnesota.
Alright, I can get behind the old tapes, but as for highlights, you won't see any of the deficiencies. Not saying that any of the men under discussion were loaded with deficiencies, but highlights are highlights for a reason.
As for your debate on Fouts, Elway, I can't really comment on that. I have sketchy memories of Fouts at the tail end of his career when I was about 8 or 9 and didn't have a deep understanding of football. Elway on the other hand I saw a lot of through his prime and out of all the guys I grew up watching and am still watching he throws the prettiest ball.
[QUOTE="frostybanana"][QUOTE="Second_Rook"] Not to be a prick here but you really watched Sonny Jurgenson, Johnny Unitas, Fran Tarkenton, and Roger Staubach play? You must be the oldest member on this site. Second_RookI didn't watch them WHILE they were still playing. But I've managed to watch a considerable amount of their games, mostly from tapes and games my dad taped back in the day. I haven't seen Jurgensen or Staubach play in full games, I don't have any videos on them. I've only seen highlights and shows dedicated to them. I have plenty of video on Elway and Fouts though. I live in Baltimore so there are some places with Unitas' championship games here as well. I haven't seen a load of Tarkenton, but I do have some game tapes from his second stint with Minnesota.
Alright, I can get behind the old tapes, but as for highlights, you won't see any of the deficiencies. Not saying that any of the men under discussion were loaded with deficiencies, but highlights are highlights for a reason.
As for your debate on Fouts, Elway, I can't really comment on that. I have sketchy memories of Fouts at the tail end of his career when I was about 8 or 9 and didn't have a deep understanding of football. Elway on the other hand I saw a lot of through his prime and out of all the guys I grew up watching and am still watching he throws the prettiest ball.
In the case of the players I couldn't watch extensively, I still have a fairly good understanding of how they throw. That coupled with raw statistics helped me make my decisions on them. For instance, Staubach retired with the highest passer rating of all time. And when you look at how others who played in that era describe him, you get a good idea of what they're like. I may not know their deficiencies, but I know how good they CAN be. And I know how good Elway can be too. And, simply put, I don't see him as a better raw thrower than any of the guys in my list. To be fair though, that number 10 spot there is really a toss up for me. I ended up picking Brady because his numbers over the last few years are insane. And to add to that, he wins. Without an all star supporting cast, no less. So if I had to pick between Elway and Brady, I'd have to say Brady.In the case of the players I couldn't watch extensively, I still have a fairly good understanding of how they throw. That coupled with raw statistics helped me make my decisions on them. For instance, Staubach retired with the highest passer rating of all time. And when you look at how others who played in that era describe him, you get a good idea of what they're like. I may not know their deficiencies, but I know how good they CAN be. And I know how good Elway can be too. And, simply put, I don't see him as a better raw thrower than any of the guys in my list. To be fair though, that number 10 spot there is really a toss up for me. I ended up picking Brady because his numbers over the last few years are insane. And to add to that, he wins. Without an all star supporting cast, no less. So if I had to pick between Elway and Brady, I'd have to say Brady. frostybananaYeah we all have our ranking system. According to a several people I've talked to in my Dad's group of friends Johnny Unitas is the best they have ever seen, so he probably belongs on the list as well as Bart Starr, Ken Stabler, and many others. But I make my top tens off of guys I've watched extensively, not knocking anyone else's system, just easier for me to stay in the discussion that way. I am curious what led you to include Kurt Warner if you are including players as far back as Sonny Jurgenson. I think he's great but he just missed my list, and really through no fault of his own, more the fact that he had jumpy coaches looking for any reason to put in the GMs pet project (Leinart, Eli, blecch.) He definitely would have been the next one on it.
[QUOTE="frostybanana"] In the case of the players I couldn't watch extensively, I still have a fairly good understanding of how they throw. That coupled with raw statistics helped me make my decisions on them. For instance, Staubach retired with the highest passer rating of all time. And when you look at how others who played in that era describe him, you get a good idea of what they're like. I may not know their deficiencies, but I know how good they CAN be. And I know how good Elway can be too. And, simply put, I don't see him as a better raw thrower than any of the guys in my list. To be fair though, that number 10 spot there is really a toss up for me. I ended up picking Brady because his numbers over the last few years are insane. And to add to that, he wins. Without an all star supporting cast, no less. So if I had to pick between Elway and Brady, I'd have to say Brady. Second_RookYeah we all have our ranking system. According to a several people I've talked to in my Dad's group of friends Johnny Unitas is the best they have ever seen, so he probably belongs on the list as well as Bart Starr, Ken Stabler, and many others. But I make my top tens off of guys I've watched extensively, not knocking anyone else's system, just easier for me to stay in the discussion that way. I am curious what led you to include Kurt Warner if you are including players as far back as Sonny Jurgenson. I think he's great but he just missed my list, and really through no fault of his own, more the fact that he had jumpy coaches looking for any reason to put in the GMs pet project (Leinart, Eli, blecch.) He definitely would have been the next one on it. Well in Warner's case, I am admittedly a little biased. Warner is a very streaky passer. The thing that really amazes me about Warner is that when he's on a hot streak, he is absolutely unstoppable. I've honestly never seen a guy take over a game like he did.
Take for example two years ago in the Cards home opener against Miami. 19/24, 361 yards and 3 TDs with a perfect 158.3 passer rating. Games like that for Warner are common. Throughout his career he has games where he completely destroys the other team. In the rhythm passing offense, which is, according to many coaches, the most difficult offense to execute, Warner would make accurate throws at all levels of the field. His game was truly something of magnificence. And we all saw what happened to the Cards once Warner left.
I do, however, recognize that Warner also had mobility issues, a tendency to hold on to the ball too long and in games where he plays poorly, he plays very poorly. But Warner's very high ceiling makes me feel like he should be regarded amongst the greats. When the guy is playing good, you'd be hard pressed to find someone better in the NFL.
[QUOTE="monkeytoes61"]Not enough Brett Favre. It's a shame people will only remember him for the retirement saga. Leader in most major passing catagories, SB win, three MVPs. I can't see any way that he isn't a top ten QB.Darth_Revan_666
I remember him mostly for his clutch interceptions.
He also had an insane amount of fourth quarter comebacks and game winning plays.[QUOTE="Bobbles"]Lol @ anyone questioning John Elway's throwing ability. Sorry I didn't state the obvious. frostybananaWho's questioning his throwing ability? I simply stated that the people on my list can throw better than him. I watched Elway play and I've watched the people on my list play. So I came to a reasonable conclusion on who can throw the better based on watching them. I don't just sit around looking at numbers and pretend that I know what I'm talking about :roll: I'm sorry, but there is no way in hell that Sonny Jurgensen was a better pure passer than John Elway.
[QUOTE="frostybanana"][QUOTE="Bobbles"]Lol @ anyone questioning John Elway's throwing ability. Sorry I didn't state the obvious. monkeytoes61Who's questioning his throwing ability? I simply stated that the people on my list can throw better than him. I watched Elway play and I've watched the people on my list play. So I came to a reasonable conclusion on who can throw the better based on watching them. I don't just sit around looking at numbers and pretend that I know what I'm talking about :roll: I'm sorry, but there is no way in hell that Sonny Jurgensen was a better pure passer than John Elway. I disagree. People who played with Sonny have remarked that he has the greatest deep ball in history. And from what I've seen of him, I completely agree.
[QUOTE="frostybanana"][QUOTE="Bobbles"]Lol @ anyone questioning John Elway's throwing ability. Sorry I didn't state the obvious. monkeytoes61Who's questioning his throwing ability? I simply stated that the people on my list can throw better than him. I watched Elway play and I've watched the people on my list play. So I came to a reasonable conclusion on who can throw the better based on watching them. I don't just sit around looking at numbers and pretend that I know what I'm talking about :roll: I'm sorry, but there is no way in hell that Sonny Jurgensen was a better pure passer than John Elway. There's no way anybody bases a top 10 list on passing ability and leaves off John Elway. Apparently this guy knows me though, and I've never seen any of these guys play. I thought the NFL Network's top 100 players list was messed up, then I saw frostybanana's top 10 QB's list.
[QUOTE="Bobbles"][QUOTE="monkeytoes61"] I'm sorry, but there is no way in hell that Sonny Jurgensen was a better pure passer than John Elway. frostybananaThere's no way anybody bases a top 10 list on passing ability and leaves off John Elway. Apparently this guy knows me though, and I've never seen any of these guys play. I thought the NFL Network's top 100 players list was messed up, then I saw frostybanana's top 10 QB's list. Way to respond without responding to me :roll:. As if that validates your opinion. No I don't see Elway as a better dropback passer than any of the guys on my list. If you have a problem with it make your own list and quit *****ing. My list would look similar to darth_revan's except I'd replace Steve Young with Bart Starr.
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