100% Irrefutable proof that casuals are ruining gaming (or atleast Nintendo)

Yes, this is another "wii has no games" topic, but I have a solid argument to back up my point. I'm making this topic because on gamespot there are some wild people who think it's ok for Nintendo to completely ignore it's core franchises.

Before I start, yes I know Galaxy is out, i'm not asking for another Mario right now, i'm glad Nintendo put that out in a timely manner. While I don't think it was better then Mario 64, that's not the point, as far as i'm concerned with Mario they delivered, i'll explain the other games as i go along.

Nintendo 64 launched in September 1996

These are all based on American release dates:

1. Super Mario 64 (LAUNCH)
2. Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire (3 months after launch) (not a Nintendo franchise, but I really liked this game for some reason)
3. Mario Kart 64 (5 months after launch)
4. Starfox 64 (7 months after launch)
5. Duke Nukem 64 (1 year after launch) (again not a Nintendo franchise but still a good FPS)
6. Goldeneye 007 (1 year after launch)
7. Mario Party (1 + 1/2 years after launch)
8. Banjo-Kazooie (1 + 1/2 years after launch) (technically was a Nintendo franchise before the Rare buy-out)
9. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (2 years after launch)
10. Super Smash Bros. (2 + 1/2 years after launch)
11. Donkey Kong 64 (3 years after launch)
12. The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask (4 years after launch)

Nintendo Wii launched November 2006

I'm not including Twilight Princess, because it's a port with waggle, i like the game a lot, but that's facts, it's a gamecube game, not an original Wii Zelda.

1. Super Paper Mario (5 months later)
2. Metroid Prime 3: Corruption - (9 months later)
3. Super Smash Bros. Brawl - (little over 1 year later)
4. Super Mario Galaxy - (1 year later)
5. Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure (1 year later)
7. Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn - (1 year later)
8. No More Heroes - (1 year later)
9. Mario Kart Wii - (1 + 1/2 years)
10. Madworld - (looks to be a little over 2 years)
11. Wii Zelda (???)
12. Wii Starfox (???)
13. Wii Donkey Kong (???)
14. Wii Pikmin (???)
15. 2nd Wii Zelda, like the 2nd Zelda on N64 (???)

I can't think of anything else for the Wii, but this is unnacceptable in my opinion. If the casuals weren't implemented in Nintendo's lame strategy, Nintendo would be selling like N64, which isn't good, but guess what? I 100% GUARENTEE you we'd have a list of AAA games similar to N64's. We'd have an original Wii Zelda by now, we'd have a Starfox, AND a Pikmin.

Now to be fair, Sony has been even worse when it comes to delays, and their main franchises are taking very long to come out as well, this is also unnacceptable on Sony's part, but we have solid release windows for many of their upcoming games in 2009, especially if you include the multi-plats, Sony has already stated that they know they've lacked in games, I 100% feel that Sony is trying to get back on their A-game when it comes to games, and 2009 will be a great year for Sony, especially Fall of this year with LBP and Resistance 2.

Newer games take more time, we know this, but because of Nintendo's -rack in the old people- strategy, it's taking WAY longer then it should, and they're putting resources in area's that mean nothing to it's core fanbase.

I'm gonna end my essay of hate and leave you off with 1 question, Nintendo is laughing all the way to the bank with their new plan, why should they care about us?

and how is the wii's library situation effecting the stream of great games coming out for the ps3/360?

That's some proof.

I'm completely convinced.

yeah, its real easy to prove your point when you dont include SMG or LoZ:TP for the Wii, and list Super Mario 64 twice for the N64

EDIT: nevermind, looks like you corrected it.

also, how is Duke Nukem a Nintendo 'core' game?

Guess I can't argue with science...

:|

The N64 was such an incredible system, it makes me sick to see how far Nintendo have fallen.
V_Isle

And yet I enjoy my Wii more than I ever enjoyed my N64..

yeah, its real easy to prove your point when you dont include SMG or LoZ:TP for the Wii, and list Super Mario 64 twice for the N64

EDIT: nevermind, looks like you corrected it.

also, how is Duke Nukem a Nintendo 'core' game?

ogvampire

Yea sorry about Mario 64, I realized it afterwards and edited it out. Also I mentioned that Duke Nukem isn't Nintendo, but it's still a solid FPS which is something Wii has lacked since launch, The Conduit may be it's first however. And please nobody mention that Medal of Honor game.

ohhh pray the lord!!!!, people have different games in taste, if having different taste in games is some sort of crime, then everyone is guilty of itDante2710

My list cannot be disagreed with, it's not a matter of taste, it's about the number of quality core games, released in a reasonable time-span, and comparing those from N64 to Wii.

The SNES was such an incredible system, it makes me sick to see how far Nintendo have fallen.
V_Isle

Fixed.

Although I will say that the Wii has made me believe in Nintendo again.

First, you're comparing a library less than 2 years old to a library of 5 years. Second, you forgot a bunch of games for both consoles.

Nintendo has made more software for the hardcore crowd than casual this gen. Just because they are releasing a few games for casual gamers doesn't mean they are abandoning the hardcore gamer.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

yeah, its real easy to prove your point when you dont include SMG or LoZ:TP for the Wii, and list Super Mario 64 twice for the N64

EDIT: nevermind, looks like you corrected it.

also, how is Duke Nukem a Nintendo 'core' game?

angry_fork

Yea sorry about Mario 64, I realized it afterwards and edited it out. Also I mentioned that Duke Nukem isn't Nintendo, but it's still a solid FPS which is something Wii has lacked since launch, The Conduit may be it's first however. And please nobody mention that Medal of Honor game.

then why dont you include No More Heroes for the Wii? its not an FPS or a Nintendo game, but its a genre (sandbox) that the N64 didnt have

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

yeah, its real easy to prove your point when you dont include SMG or LoZ:TP for the Wii, and list Super Mario 64 twice for the N64

EDIT: nevermind, looks like you corrected it.

also, how is Duke Nukem a Nintendo 'core' game?

angry_fork

Yea sorry about Mario 64, I realized it afterwards and edited it out. Also I mentioned that Duke Nukem isn't Nintendo, but it's still a solid FPS which is something Wii has lacked since launch, The Conduit may be it's first however. And please nobody mention that Medal of Honor game.

ohhh pray the lord!!!!, people have different games in taste, if having different taste in games is some sort of crime, then everyone is guilty of itDante2710

My list cannot be disagreed with, it's not a matter of taste, it's about the number of quality core games, released in a reasonable time-span, and comparing those from N64 to Wii.

You also left out Mario Party 8 and I can easily argue with yoru list.

First, you're comparing a library less than 2 years old to a library of 5 years. Second, you forgot a bunch of games for both consoles.

Nintendo has made more software for the hardcore crowd than casual this gen. Just because they are releasing a few games for casual gamers doesn't mean they are abandoning the hardcore gamer.

Rocky32189

1. Ok so take out the N64 games that came out after 2 years, which is only Smash Bros. Donkey Kong, and Majora's Mask, the rest of the N64 still completely dominates Wii's list.

2. I don't think they have, they haven't released enough hardcore games to match the greatness of the N64, not even close in my opinion.

[QUOTE="angry_fork"][QUOTE="ogvampire"]

yeah, its real easy to prove your point when you dont include SMG or LoZ:TP for the Wii, and list Super Mario 64 twice for the N64

EDIT: nevermind, looks like you corrected it.

also, how is Duke Nukem a Nintendo 'core' game?

ogvampire

Yea sorry about Mario 64, I realized it afterwards and edited it out. Also I mentioned that Duke Nukem isn't Nintendo, but it's still a solid FPS which is something Wii has lacked since launch, The Conduit may be it's first however. And please nobody mention that Medal of Honor game.

then why dont you include No More Heroes for the Wii? its not an FPS or a Nintendo game, but its a genre (sandbox) that the N64 didnt have

I did include No More Heroes.

Nintendo used to be King.

Now they're just the King of Casuals.

1. Ok so take out the N64 games that came out after 2 years, which is only Smash Bros. Donkey Kong, and Majora's Mask, the rest of the N64 still completely dominates Wii's list.

angry_fork

if you do that then the Wii has more or the same amount of games (not so sure about madworld)

Opinions =/= ProofSER69

How are my lists opinion? seriously? it's not opinion that within 2 years N64 had one of the most amazing library of games of any system. While the Wii just doesn't even compare at all, and it's really not fair to the loyal gamers who got an N64, AND a Gamcube.

[QUOTE="angry_fork"]

1. Ok so take out the N64 games that came out after 2 years, which is only Smash Bros. Donkey Kong, and Majora's Mask, the rest of the N64 still completely dominates Wii's list.

ogvampire

if you do that then the Wii has more or the same amount of games (not so sure about madworld)

They have the same amount, but nowhere near the same quality.

PLEASE OP, for the love of JEBUS, GO AWAY...Fawlcon_Pawnch

Nintendo needs pressure to be put on them, no Nintendo fanboy has been able to answer my last question yet. If Nintendo doesn't get any heat from what they're doing, they will keep doing what they're doing because there's no repercussions, it's as simple as that.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="angry_fork"]

1. Ok so take out the N64 games that came out after 2 years, which is only Smash Bros. Donkey Kong, and Majora's Mask, the rest of the N64 still completely dominates Wii's list.

angry_fork

if you do that then the Wii has more or the same amount of games (not so sure about madworld)

They have the same amount, but nowhere near the same quality.

thats kinda subjective, dont you think?

Whoa. I mean...I knew a certain group of fanboys were delusional...but to actually think the Wii is better than the N64? Now that's just dimentia.V_Isle

Didn't say it was better.

I said I enjoyed it more.

I knew a certain group of fanboys were delusional, but I didn't know they couldn't read.

Im not a Wii defender by any means. But owner of a 360/Wii. You have to look at the Development times and cost of making a game, Have sky rocketed since the N64 days.

You list 6 first party Nintendo games (2 of those were made by Rare, which now belongs to MS) in the first 1.5 years released by Nintendo and that's generous considering Mario Party is on that list while Warioware, Mario Party 8, Battalion Wars 2 are left off the Wii list, but nevertheless...

I'd say Nintendo has kept up pretty well, it's just the 3rd parties that are falling behind in terms of games, especially since dev times are longer now than before, and they're also putting out games like Wii Sport/Play/Fit (not that they take much time...).

[QUOTE="AlexSays"]

[QUOTE="V_Isle"]Whoa. I mean...I knew a certain group of fanboys were delusional...but to actually think the Wii is better than the N64? Now that's just dimentia.V_Isle

Didn't say it was better.

I said I enjoyed it more.

I knew a certain group of fanboys were delusional, but I didn't know they couldn't read.

Halo 3 is better than MLB Power Pros.

But which do I prefer?

MLB Power Pros.

It's a crazy thing called opinions, you should try it sometime.

[QUOTE="V_Isle"]The N64 was such an incredible system, it makes me sick to see how far Nintendo have fallen.
AlexSays

And yet I enjoy my Wii more than I ever enjoyed my N64..

:O NOOOOOOOOOO HES A CASUAL TOO

how can you say that? N64 BLOWS wii outaa the water i have them both and honestly LOZ:OT + mario 64 > entire wii library

[QUOTE="AlexSays"]

[QUOTE="V_Isle"]The N64 was such an incredible system, it makes me sick to see how far Nintendo have fallen.
wiiguyftw

And yet I enjoy my Wii more than I ever enjoyed my N64..

:O NOOOOOOOOOO HES A CASUAL TOO

how can you say that? N64 BLOWS wii outaa the water i have them both and honestly LOZ:OT + mario 64 > entire wii library

Yeah, N64 blows alright. It had it's few awesome games, but that was it. That's why Playstation took the crown for that gen. Nintendo has been trying to catch up ever since. This time around, they decided not to compete directly with the other consoles, but take a different approach. While they are still in the same situation as they have been since the N64 where the hardcores are concerned, they have dominated sales where the casuals are concerned.

None of this would have happened had they not rejected the Sony disc drive deal so long ago. That was their downfall.

Here's the real list of Nintendo publsihed games for both systems in the first two years:

N64

1. Mario 64
2. Pilotwings 64
3. Wave Race 64
4. Killer Instinct Gold
5. Cruis'n USA
6. Star Wars Shadows of the Empire
7. Mario Kart 64
8. Blast Corps
9. Bomberman 64
10. Diddy Kong Racing
11. Goldeneye
12. Star Fox 64
13. Tetrisphere
14. Mischief Makers
15. 1080
16. Banjo Kazooie
17. Bomberman Hero
18. Cruisn World
19. F-1 World Grand Prix
20. F-Zero X
21. Ocarina of Time
22. Yoshi's Story

Wii

1. Wii Sports
2. Excite Truck
3. Twilight Princess
4. WarioWare
5. Wii Play
6. Super Paper Mario
7. Mario Party 8
8. Big Brain Academy
9. Pokemon Battle Revolution
10. Mario Strikers Charged
11. Metroid Prime 3
12. Donkey Kong Barrel Blast
13. Battalion Wars 2
14. Fire Emblem
15. Mario Galaxy
16. Link's Crossbow Training
17. Endless Ocean
18. Smash Bros Brawl
19. Mario Kart Wii
20. Mario Super Sluggers
21. Wii Fit
22. Wario Land Shake It
23. Animal Crossing
24. Wii Music
25. Disaster Day of Crisis
26. Fatal Frame 4
27. Captain Rainbow

By my count, you've listed nine games for the Wii that came out a year and a half after launch, compared to eight games for the N64 during the same time period, making the Wii one game ahead of where the N64 was.

I'm not sure how this proves the underlying point that you say you're making.

By my count, you've listed nine games for the Wii that came out a year and a half after launch, compared to eight games for the N64 during the same time period, making the Wii one game ahead of where the N64 was.

I'm not sure how this proves the underlying point that you say you're making.

GabuEx

Because the quality in the Wii titles are nowhere near the N64 ones, and that's not opinion, Galaxy was top notch, No More Heroes is hit or miss, Metroid is far from the caliber that Starfox 64 was, it goes on and on.

And it's not really about that for me anyway, it's about getting these games out in a reasonable manner. They keep pumping so much crap into this casual stuff every year including Wii Music which is insulting to me personally. If they didn't do any of that they would've atleast had a release window on SOME other franchise, be it Zelda, Donkey Kong, Starfox whatever, but all we have is a bunch of lame shovelware.

Honestly, I don't regret buying my Wii, I got it for Galaxy and it was a great experience i'm glad i didn't miss out on it, but i just really find it unfair that Nintendo can get away with this, without giving us something to hold us over. All of Sony's main franchises are taking forever to come out, but they've got many other new IP's, and multi-plats to hold us over until then, so it's not that bad, what is Nintendo doing for us while we wait for Zelda? giving us Wii Sports Resort? it's rediculous.

And everyone defends Nintendo like it's ok, it's really not, like I said in the first post, if they're making so much money with what they're doing now, they have NO reason what so ever to change what they're doing, and that includes making high-quality games for the rest of us.

[QUOTE="wiiguyftw"][QUOTE="AlexSays"]

[QUOTE="V_Isle"]The N64 was such an incredible system, it makes me sick to see how far Nintendo have fallen.
Mike1978Smith

And yet I enjoy my Wii more than I ever enjoyed my N64..

:O NOOOOOOOOOO HES A CASUAL TOO

how can you say that? N64 BLOWS wii outaa the water i have them both and honestly LOZ:OT + mario 64 > entire wii library

Yeah, N64 blows alright

I'm sorry to break it to you, but put those N64 games against the 360's and ps3's current library too. It blows all 3 current gen consoles out of water. Not just the Wii's. You even said the N64 had one of the most amazing game library's that gen... So far, not a single game from either current system has surpassed them. Singling out the Wii for this silly comparison just shows your biasness. The fact that you wouldn't include Twilight Princess because of "waggle" (A term jealous fanboys always refer back to) just shows how angry and jealous you are that the Wii is kicking the other systems in the ball bags. All the systems are casual. Difference is, Wii advertises that they are. Remove the blood and swearing from a game like Gears, and what do you have? A duck and cover, run and gunner that takes zero skill to play. You literally find cover, then point and shoot. Ya, real hardcore, not casual in the least... Zack and Wiki takes more thought and brain skill to play. And if you disagree then you clearly haven't played Zack and Wiki. dr-venkman

I said waggle because it is waggle, you waggle the remote around to swing your knife, the only other thing they use it for is aiming, which isn't used often. I'm not lying when I say waggle I have the game, there's nothing wrong with waggle, but it's not exactly using the remote to it's highest capabilities. Twilight Princess is a gamecube port, so I didn't include it, just like Okami, and RE4, while they're amazing games, they're not original Wii games.

Also i'm sorry but PS3/360 has way more and better exclusives and multi-plat's combined then Wii. I'm not sure if they're better then N64's lineup, because N64 is my favorite system of all time, but it's pretty close in my opinion, and Wii is not close at all, the only thing Wii can light a torch to it is Mario Galaxy.

Metroid is far from the caliber that Starfox 64 was, it goes on and on.

And everyone defends Nintendo like it's ok, it's really not, like I said in the first post, if they're making so much money with what they're doing now, they have NO reason what so ever to change what they're doing, and that includes making high-quality games for the rest of us.angry_fork

1. Metroid is much better than Star Fox 64.

2. Nintendo is making plenty of games for hardcore gamers, as are third parties. If you don't want to play or acknowledge them it's your loss.

and how is the wii's library situation effecting the stream of great games coming out for the ps3/360?

Shinobishyguy

Congratulations on 10,000 posts :)

On-topic: No, they are not. (Had to think of something.)

[QUOTE="dr-venkman"]I'm sorry to break it to you, but put those N64 games against the 360's and ps3's current library too. It blows all 3 current gen consoles out of water. Not just the Wii's. You even said the N64 had one of the most amazing game library's that gen... So far, not a single game from either current system has surpassed them. Singling out the Wii for this silly comparison just shows your biasness. The fact that you wouldn't include Twilight Princess because of "waggle" (A term jealous fanboys always refer back to) just shows how angry and jealous you are that the Wii is kicking the other systems in the ball bags. All the systems are casual. Difference is, Wii advertises that they are. Remove the blood and swearing from a game like Gears, and what do you have? A duck and cover, run and gunner that takes zero skill to play. You literally find cover, then point and shoot. Ya, real hardcore, not casual in the least... Zack and Wiki takes more thought and brain skill to play. And if you disagree then you clearly haven't played Zack and Wiki. angry_fork

I said waggle because it is waggle, you waggle the remote around to swing your knife, the only other thing they use it for is aiming, which isn't used often. I'm not lying when I say waggle I have the game, there's nothing wrong with waggle, but it's not exactly using the remote to it's highest capabilities. Twilight Princess is a gamecube port, so I didn't include it, just like Okami, and RE4, while they're amazing games, they're not original Wii games.

Also i'm sorry but PS3/360 has way more and better exclusives and multi-plat's combined then Wii. I'm not sure if they're better then N64's lineup, because N64 is my favorite system of all time, but it's pretty close in my opinion, and Wii is not close at all, the only thing Wii can light a torch to it is Mario Galaxy.

Only thing the Wii has thats better than N64 games is SMG? No. (the following is my opinion, and therefore is fact to me, so no I'm not wrong) True, SMG is better than SM64. MKWii is better than MK64(MK:DDwas better than MK64), SSBB is better than the first SSB. :)

Also i'm sorry but PS3/360 has way more and better exclusives and multi-plat's combined then Wii. I'm not sure if they're better then N64's lineup, because N64 is my favorite system of all time, but it's pretty close in my opinion, and Wii is not close at all, the only thing Wii can light a torch to it is Mario Galaxy.angry_fork

oh my... im sure it has nothing to do with the fact that nowadays it takes huge teams, tons of time, and tons of more money to release a game :roll: Silenthps

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]oh my... im sure it has nothing to do with the fact that nowadays it takes huge teams, tons of time, and tons of more money to release a game :roll: air_wolf_cubed

And when was the Gameboy out?

[QUOTE="air_wolf_cubed"][QUOTE="Silenthps"]oh my... im sure it has nothing to do with the fact that nowadays it takes huge teams, tons of time, and tons of more money to release a game :roll: SSCyborg

And when was the Gameboy out?