360 multiple discs problem is only going to get worse

Multipe discs suck, and 360 is seeing more and more of them, not just in RPGs but even racing games and action games (Forza 3, Dead Space 2, Castlevania etc...)

Games are getting bigger, not smaller so I think its going to get worse

FF XIII-2 is a given

Forza 4 maybe? if its bigger than Forza3

Skyrim, Witcher 2, Mass Effect 3 and other RPGs are very likely

Since LA Noir had to be on 3, what about GTA5 or RDR2?

MGS Rising if it even has 1/3 of cinematic MGS4 had

so what else do you think?

me2002

true, we don't know because we're not devs but the limit is still there, and with games potentially going into 50+gigs its hard to think that 8 gig is not limitingme2002

If most games needed more space, the devs would simply use another disk.

Regardless of whether or not you people think that disc swapping is a hassle, it is a good indication that DVD-9 is dated and needs to be upgraded. People were saying that Sony jumped the gun with Blu Ray this generation, well apparently not. Every PS3 game is on 1 disc, many 360 games are on multiple discs.

Remember the PS1? It was a CD format. The PS2 upgraded to a DVD format to combat the need for multiple discs on games such as 4 discs for Final Fantasy IX. Well, it worked. How many multiple disc games do you recall releasing on the PS2? None that I can remember. Now here's where the responsible aspect comes into play, it's called learning from your mistakes. Rather than releasing the PS3 with the same storage medium as the PS2, knowing full well they would encounter the same problem they had with the PS1, they decided to be proactive and provide a way around it by including a blu ray drive. Well, it worked.

Getting up to change discs isn't that big of a deal at the end of the day, but the problems with Microsoft's decision to use a DVD format stems much further than that. Developers from all over the industry have expressed complaints about the DVD format used by M$, claiming that it is simply not sufficient for today's next generation games. Rockstar said flat out that the 360 held GTA4 back from its full potential, and they had to cut corners on the game to compensate for the 360. The same thing happened with Final Fantasy XIII, and who knows how many other multi-platform games. You may ask yourself, well why don't those developers just make the 360 version a multiple disc release? Well apparently, Microsoft charges developers an absurd amount of additional money for additional discs for their games.

Here's a video of John Carmack explaining how the Xbox 360 and DVD9 has directly affected the development for RAGE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qppLjwqkiU

He says that because of the DVD9 used by the 360, they are being forced to make compression quality sacrifices on the game. He also says when it comes to cost per gigabyte, Playstation 3 is far superior over the 360, making it a much better platform to develop on if you're doing a large scale game. He then goes on to say that Microsoft charges a big licensing fee for every additional disc used in a game, making it so that developers are more likely to cut corners on their games rather than release multiple discs, decreasing the overall quality of the game.

How you complain about this is beyond me considering you had to deal with this at one point.....

Regardless of whether or not you people think that disc swapping is a hassle, it is a good indication that DVD-9 is dated and needs to be upgraded. People were saying that Sony jumped the gun with Blu Ray this generation, well apparently not. Every PS3 game is on 1 disc, many 360 games are on multiple discs.

Remember the PS1? It was a CD format. The PS2 upgraded to a DVD format to combat the need for multiple discs on games such as 4 discs for Final Fantasy IX. Well, it worked. How many multiple disc games do you recall releasing on the PS2? None that I can remember. Now here's where the responsible aspect comes into play, it's called learning from your mistakes. Rather than releasing the PS3 with the same storage medium as the PS2, knowing full well they would encounter the same problem they had with the PS1, they decided to be proactive and provide a way around it by including a blu ray drive. Well, it worked.

Getting up to change discs isn't that big of a deal at the end of the day, but the problems with Microsoft's decision to use a DVD format stems much further than that. Developers from all over the industry have expressed complaints about the DVD format used by M$, claiming that it is simply not sufficient for today's next generation games. Rockstar said flat out that the 360 held GTA4 back from its full potential, and they had to cut corners on the game to compensate for the 360. The same thing happened with Final Fantasy XIII, and who knows how many other multi-platform games. You may ask yourself, well why don't those developers just make the 360 version a multiple disc release? Well apparently, Microsoft charges developers an absurd amount of additional money for additional discs for their games.

Here's a video of John Carmack explaining how the Xbox 360 and DVD9 has directly affected the development for RAGE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qppLjwqkiU

arkephonic

[QUOTE="musicalmac"]Haven't you heard? Multiple discs is a major bonus. Your friend can borrow the game before you even complete it! Everybody wins!Heil68

many 360 games are on multiple discs.arkephonic

How you complain about this is beyond me considering you had to deal with this at one point.....

BloodyFalcon007

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

Regardless of whether or not you people think that disc swapping is a hassle, it is a good indication that DVD-9 is dated and needs to be upgraded. People were saying that Sony jumped the gun with Blu Ray this generation, well apparently not. Every PS3 game is on 1 disc, many 360 games are on multiple discs.

Remember the PS1? It was a CD format. The PS2 upgraded to a DVD format to combat the need for multiple discs on games such as 4 discs for Final Fantasy IX. Well, it worked. How many multiple disc games do you recall releasing on the PS2? None that I can remember. Now here's where the responsible aspect comes into play, it's called learning from your mistakes. Rather than releasing the PS3 with the same storage medium as the PS2, knowing full well they would encounter the same problem they had with the PS1, they decided to be proactive and provide a way around it by including a blu ray drive. Well, it worked.

Getting up to change discs isn't that big of a deal at the end of the day, but the problems with Microsoft's decision to use a DVD format stems much further than that. Developers from all over the industry have expressed complaints about the DVD format used by M$, claiming that it is simply not sufficient for today's next generation games. Rockstar said flat out that the 360 held GTA4 back from its full potential, and they had to cut corners on the game to compensate for the 360. The same thing happened with Final Fantasy XIII, and who knows how many other multi-platform games. You may ask yourself, well why don't those developers just make the 360 version a multiple disc release? Well apparently, Microsoft charges developers an absurd amount of additional money for additional discs for their games.

Here's a video of John Carmack explaining how the Xbox 360 and DVD9 has directly affected the development for RAGE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qppLjwqkiU

DUKEISGOLD

You obviously didn't read his exellent post that destroys all arguments made yet.
This isn't about switching dvd's being an annoyance, this is about game quality deminishing thanks the dvd's are dated.

Seriously? How did all of you guys game on the PSOne and the PS2? There were multi disc games on those systems that people hail as the greatest games of all time. I just don't get it. It really is that much of an inconveniece to get off their lazy butts and switch a disc? I guess you all only play one game this gen because God forbid you have to get up to take out one game and put in another. Ridiculous. Mutli disc games are not an issue. They don't affect the gameplay experience. Get over it. I swear this and the Live argument are the deadest horses in system wars.

Regardless of whether or not you people think that disc swapping is a hassle, it is a good indication that DVD-9 is dated and needs to be upgraded. People were saying that Sony jumped the gun with Blu Ray this generation, well apparently not. Every PS3 game is on 1 disc, many 360 games are on multiple discs.

Remember the PS1? It was a CD format. The PS2 upgraded to a DVD format to combat the need for multiple discs on games such as 4 discs for Final Fantasy IX. Well, it worked. How many multiple disc games do you recall releasing on the PS2? None that I can remember. Now here's where the responsible aspect comes into play, it's called learning from your mistakes. Rather than releasing the PS3 with the same storage medium as the PS2, knowing full well they would encounter the same problem they had with the PS1, they decided to be proactive and provide a way around it by including a blu ray drive. Well, it worked.

Getting up to change discs isn't that big of a deal at the end of the day, but the problems with Microsoft's decision to use a DVD format stems much further than that. Developers from all over the industry have expressed complaints about the DVD format used by M$, claiming that it is simply not sufficient for today's next generation games. Rockstar said flat out that the 360 held GTA4 back from its full potential, and they had to cut corners on the game to compensate for the 360. The same thing happened with Final Fantasy XIII, and who knows how many other multi-platform games. You may ask yourself, well why don't those developers just make the 360 version a multiple disc release? Well apparently, Microsoft charges developers an absurd amount of additional money for additional discs for their games.

Here's a video of John Carmack explaining how the Xbox 360 and DVD9 has directly affected the development for RAGE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qppLjwqkiU

arkephonic

All your arguemnts, from many 360 game having multiple disks to MS charging fees have been proven wrong in this thread,

Why do we still need to use the bathroom? It totally breaks the immersion of the game when after a few hours of play I suddenly have to pause the game and it's just such a big hassle. Real gamers just put on adult diapers and go right there.

Seriously? How did all of you guys game on the PSOne and the PS2? There were multi disc games on those systems that people hail as the greatest games of all time. I just don't get it. It really is that much of an inconveniece to get off their lazy butts and switch a disc? I guess you all only play one game this gen because God forbid you have to get up to take out one game and put in another. Ridiculous. Mutli disc games are not an issue. They don't affect the gameplay experience. Get over it. I swear this and the Live argument are the deadest horses in system wars.

FPSDad1161

Yes, good job on not mentioning that there was no alternative in the time of ps 1 while there is now.

Seriously? How did all of you guys game on the PSOne and the PS2? There were multi disc games on those systems that people hail as the greatest games of all time. I just don't get it. It really is that much of an inconveniece to get off their lazy butts and switch a disc? I guess you all only play one game this gen because God forbid you have to get up to take out one game and put in another. Ridiculous. Mutli disc games are not an issue. They don't affect the gameplay experience. Get over it. I swear this and the Live argument are the deadest horses in system wars.

FPSDad1161

[QUOTE="turtlethetaffer"]

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

Have you ever played a final fantasy? The developers know that their fans hold great value over character development, it's highly unlikely that the developers cut that content because it didn't fit.

rastotm

Well there are other games than Final Fantasy (and I did use the word "most") but I meant things like an extra dungeon or boss or something. Gameplay ideas.

These arguments were about a FF13 article where it was implied that FF13 had content cut too keep the game size down.
If they cut content 'to keep the game size down' then one can claim with certainty that the content would not have been removed if the game size wasn't a problem. It's not odd to claim that multidisc's can have a negative impact on game quality.

Really? Because I thought that more discs= more game?

Also I was reffering to games in general when I said that cut content is probably ideas that don't fit in.

i like how people act like disk swapping is some first seen in this generation must be 15 year old kids.DUKEISGOLD

I'm just wondering, are you the guy that thinks that Gamespot was something he grew up on and how it's noobs that are ruining the site? Not saying you are just wondering because it seems like that guy makes a new account every month or something.

Also I agree it's kind of silly how people act like it hasn't been around forever.

if youthink about it this way: say you have a game with 20gigs of cutscene they're not going to have 10 discs (2 gig of cutscene and 6 for the world) thats just stupid, so they would have to limit the discs to say 4, then every disk would have 5 gigs of cutscene leaving only 3 gigs for the world, thats only 3, not 8me2002

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

Regardless of whether or not you people think that disc swapping is a hassle, it is a good indication that DVD-9 is dated and needs to be upgraded. People were saying that Sony jumped the gun with Blu Ray this generation, well apparently not. Every PS3 game is on 1 disc, many 360 games are on multiple discs.

Remember the PS1? It was a CD format. The PS2 upgraded to a DVD format to combat the need for multiple discs on games such as 4 discs for Final Fantasy IX. Well, it worked. How many multiple disc games do you recall releasing on the PS2? None that I can remember. Now here's where the responsible aspect comes into play, it's called learning from your mistakes. Rather than releasing the PS3 with the same storage medium as the PS2, knowing full well they would encounter the same problem they had with the PS1, they decided to be proactive and provide a way around it by including a blu ray drive. Well, it worked.

Getting up to change discs isn't that big of a deal at the end of the day, but the problems with Microsoft's decision to use a DVD format stems much further than that. Developers from all over the industry have expressed complaints about the DVD format used by M$, claiming that it is simply not sufficient for today's next generation games. Rockstar said flat out that the 360 held GTA4 back from its full potential, and they had to cut corners on the game to compensate for the 360. The same thing happened with Final Fantasy XIII, and who knows how many other multi-platform games. You may ask yourself, well why don't those developers just make the 360 version a multiple disc release? Well apparently, Microsoft charges developers an absurd amount of additional money for additional discs for their games.

Here's a video of John Carmack explaining how the Xbox 360 and DVD9 has directly affected the development for RAGE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qppLjwqkiU

DUKEISGOLD

you can't because some 360s don't have hdd

[QUOTE="DUKEISGOLD"][QUOTE="arkephonic"]

Regardless of whether or not you people think that disc swapping is a hassle, it is a good indication that DVD-9 is dated and needs to be upgraded. People were saying that Sony jumped the gun with Blu Ray this generation, well apparently not. Every PS3 game is on 1 disc, many 360 games are on multiple discs.

Remember the PS1? It was a CD format. The PS2 upgraded to a DVD format to combat the need for multiple discs on games such as 4 discs for Final Fantasy IX. Well, it worked. How many multiple disc games do you recall releasing on the PS2? None that I can remember. Now here's where the responsible aspect comes into play, it's called learning from your mistakes. Rather than releasing the PS3 with the same storage medium as the PS2, knowing full well they would encounter the same problem they had with the PS1, they decided to be proactive and provide a way around it by including a blu ray drive. Well, it worked.

Getting up to change discs isn't that big of a deal at the end of the day, but the problems with Microsoft's decision to use a DVD format stems much further than that. Developers from all over the industry have expressed complaints about the DVD format used by M$, claiming that it is simply not sufficient for today's next generation games. Rockstar said flat out that the 360 held GTA4 back from its full potential, and they had to cut corners on the game to compensate for the 360. The same thing happened with Final Fantasy XIII, and who knows how many other multi-platform games. You may ask yourself, well why don't those developers just make the 360 version a multiple disc release? Well apparently, Microsoft charges developers an absurd amount of additional money for additional discs for their games.

Here's a video of John Carmack explaining how the Xbox 360 and DVD9 has directly affected the development for RAGE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qppLjwqkiU

me2002

you can't because some 360s don't have hdd

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

[QUOTE="turtlethetaffer"]

Well there are other games than Final Fantasy (and I did use the word "most") but I meant things like an extra dungeon or boss or something. Gameplay ideas.

turtlethetaffer

These arguments were about a FF13 article where it was implied that FF13 had content cut too keep the game size down.
If they cut content 'to keep the game size down' then one can claim with certainty that the content would not have been removed if the game size wasn't a problem. It's not odd to claim that multidisc's can have a negative impact on game quality.

Really? Because I thought that more discs= more game?

Also I was reffering to games in general when I said that cut content is probably ideas that don't fit in.

And yes, bigger game size is more game. In the case of FF13 there were screens and concept art released about the cut content, many gamers demanded that the contant would be made available online.

If you cut content because of content that doesn't fit in then the producers would say: we cut some content because we felt like the it didn't fit in
If you cut content to keep the game size down you they say: we cut some content too keep the game size down

[QUOTE="DUKEISGOLD"][QUOTE="arkephonic"]

Regardless of whether or not you people think that disc swapping is a hassle, it is a good indication that DVD-9 is dated and needs to be upgraded. People were saying that Sony jumped the gun with Blu Ray this generation, well apparently not. Every PS3 game is on 1 disc, many 360 games are on multiple discs.

Remember the PS1? It was a CD format. The PS2 upgraded to a DVD format to combat the need for multiple discs on games such as 4 discs for Final Fantasy IX. Well, it worked. How many multiple disc games do you recall releasing on the PS2? None that I can remember. Now here's where the responsible aspect comes into play, it's called learning from your mistakes. Rather than releasing the PS3 with the same storage medium as the PS2, knowing full well they would encounter the same problem they had with the PS1, they decided to be proactive and provide a way around it by including a blu ray drive. Well, it worked.

Getting up to change discs isn't that big of a deal at the end of the day, but the problems with Microsoft's decision to use a DVD format stems much further than that. Developers from all over the industry have expressed complaints about the DVD format used by M$, claiming that it is simply not sufficient for today's next generation games. Rockstar said flat out that the 360 held GTA4 back from its full potential, and they had to cut corners on the game to compensate for the 360. The same thing happened with Final Fantasy XIII, and who knows how many other multi-platform games. You may ask yourself, well why don't those developers just make the 360 version a multiple disc release? Well apparently, Microsoft charges developers an absurd amount of additional money for additional discs for their games.

Here's a video of John Carmack explaining how the Xbox 360 and DVD9 has directly affected the development for RAGE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qppLjwqkiU

me2002

you can't because some 360s don't have hdd

[QUOTE="FPSDad1161"]

Seriously? How did all of you guys game on the PSOne and the PS2? There were multi disc games on those systems that people hail as the greatest games of all time. I just don't get it. It really is that much of an inconveniece to get off their lazy butts and switch a disc? I guess you all only play one game this gen because God forbid you have to get up to take out one game and put in another. Ridiculous. Mutli disc games are not an issue. They don't affect the gameplay experience. Get over it. I swear this and the Live argument are the deadest horses in system wars.

rastotm

Yes, good job on not mentioning that there was no alternative in the time of ps 1 while there is now.

Ok, so what is the alternative for the Wii and 360?

[QUOTE="me2002"]if youthink about it this way: say you have a game with 20gigs of cutscene they're not going to have 10 discs (2 gig of cutscene and 6 for the world) thats just stupid, so they would have to limit the discs to say 4, then every disk would have 5 gigs of cutscene leaving only 3 gigs for the world, thats only 3, not 8DUKEISGOLD

Thats very wrong in most cases besides Forza 3.

Even if you install all 3 discs you'll still need to swap discs due to copy protection.

Battlefield bad company 2 on xbox360 you can buy as a digital download you dont need a disk period. LOL ps3 you cant gotta swap disk PWNED.DUKEISGOLD

Um... what? How is that pwnage?

[QUOTE="DUKEISGOLD"][QUOTE="me2002"]if youthink about it this way: say you have a game with 20gigs of cutscene they're not going to have 10 discs (2 gig of cutscene and 6 for the world) thats just stupid, so they would have to limit the discs to say 4, then every disk would have 5 gigs of cutscene leaving only 3 gigs for the world, thats only 3, not 8Snugenz

Thats very wrong in most cases besides Forza 3.

Even if you install all 3 discs you'll still need to swap discs due to copy protection.

[QUOTE="turtlethetaffer"]

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

These arguments were about a FF13 article where it was implied that FF13 had content cut too keep the game size down.
If they cut content 'to keep the game size down' then one can claim with certainty that the content would not have been removed if the game size wasn't a problem. It's not odd to claim that multidisc's can have a negative impact on game quality.

rastotm

Really? Because I thought that more discs= more game?

Also I was reffering to games in general when I said that cut content is probably ideas that don't fit in.

And yes, bigger game size is more game. In the case of FF13 there were screens and concept art released about the cut content, many gamers demanded that the contant would be made available online.

If you cut content because of content that doesn't fit in then the producers would say: we cut some content because we felt like the it didn't fit in
If you cut content to keep the game size down you they say: we cut some content too keep the game size down

They never actually said they cut content due to disc size though, they've could've easily cut it due to pacing (and its not like they used every bit of space on the 360's discs).

[QUOTE="DUKEISGOLD"][QUOTE="me2002"]

you can't because some 360s don't have hdd

me2002

you don't get it, MS cannot alienate those with hdd-less 360 thats why no game has madatory hdd install thats why LA Noir is on 3 discs

btw did you make an account just to post in my thread?

[QUOTE="me2002"]

[QUOTE="DUKEISGOLD"] get a job and buy a hdd nice excuse.DUKEISGOLD

you don't get it, MS cannot alienate those with hdd-less 360 thats why no game has madatory hdd install thats why LA Noir is on 3 discs

btw did you make an account just to post in my thread?

I think the DUKE guy did make an account to post, and I think I know who it is.

Oh, it's this argument again. Killer.

[QUOTE="DUKEISGOLD"][QUOTE="me2002"]

you don't get it, MS cannot alienate those with hdd-less 360 thats why no game has madatory hdd install thats why LA Noir is on 3 discs

btw did you make an account just to post in my thread?

turtlethetaffer

I think the DUKE guy did make an account to post, and I think I know who it is.

MS cannot alienate those with hdd-less 360 thats why they're no mandatory install in any game and thats why LA Noir is on 3 disks. I thought people knew thisme2002

[QUOTE="turtlethetaffer"]

[QUOTE="DUKEISGOLD"] Everyone eventually will want a hdd wait untill la noir is released as digital download on xbox live no disk needed only hdd.DUKEISGOLD

I think the DUKE guy did make an account to post, and I think I know who it is.

I was actually going to say that you are Random McApz (see sig for actualy correct typing of the name) who got banned recently or you are that guy that went on a huge rampage a while ago because of how mad he was that Gamespot was "being taken over by noobs." But your answer works just as well.

MS cannot alienate those with hdd-less 360 thats why they're no mandatory install in any game and thats why LA Noir is on 3 disks. I thought people knew thisme2002

[QUOTE="DUKEISGOLD"]i like how people act like disk swapping is something first seen in this generation must be 15 year old kids.DUKEISGOLD

Am I the only one who thought of the taser kid from The Hangover when reading this?